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4th FL trip report, shorter, this time!
Greetings, again, to all you masochists following our journey :{)) We're
awaiting a response from my broker about several areas of interest, not the least of which is the actual contract (the initial offer was a verbal, but regarded as 'real' due to the extensive level of communication before our return visit), but... While we wait for that, there's a couple of areas I wanted to respond to. Of course, it gets long in the telling/asking :{/) ! Choices are discussed... wrote in message ... On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 17:30:13 GMT, "Skip Gundlach" wrote: (Discussion of modifications follows) That's what it looked like, but the lens distortion was such that I couldn't be sure. Still a nice galley, regardless...all you need is two feet of secured webbing and you'll stay in it on all points of sail G As it happens, both of the candidate boats (High Time and the 'cruising boat' in STP) have hooks for a strap; the latter has the strap attached! The one we've offered on, with the attorney/owner, is http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...rency=USD&unit s=Feet&checked_boats=1111916&slim=quick&, and video frame shots of it can be found in http://justpickone.org/skip/gallery under High Time, along with some of the considered modifications at M46Mod, taken from Lydia's second choice, also very rehabbed, but even more expensive. Wow. Considerably better, I can see, and STILL a pretty good deal. Those deck boxes and the hardtop bimini are very nice. You've got to love the nav station/workshop. Well, yes, and no. The deck boxes leave a bit to be desired in a couple of areas. The first is the real estate they occupy. The second is that the port one has sagged a bit and impinges on the hatch cover so it won't slide all the way back (well, technically, forward). Compounding that is their simple covered-plywood construction, which has led to rot on the port cover, and standing water in the bottom. In either case, I'd have used lengthwise hinges instead. No matter, these, if retained, are easy enough to fabricate properly or repair/upgrade/modify if worth saving. In the case of the Nav, while the batteries in the drawer are certainly slick, they take up valuable storage room and put some significant weight outside the centerline. Secondly, the space occupied by the folding stool is way larger than needed for a sit-down, and the folding stool is, to my view, a very poor choice. If I don't turn it into a standup nav (the original having been lost to galley extension), I'll certainly, at least, install a swing-away, side-post-mounted stool or seat. I really like the size of the 'nav table' - but bemoan the lack of storage outbound. I'd like to do something like is shown in the M46Mod folder in my gallery, as I would in the case of the 'cruising boat' in STP, for the outbound storage, and, probably, do something similar WRT the drawers and storage, even if I elect to retain that large space under the table for seating. Either way, I'm likely to want to add to the battery capacity in this boat. However, that hardtop is like being in the living room. With the enclosure, or the screens, and the lighting, there's no reason we couldn't make that our 'patio' for most of our activities. While this boat has two air conditioners, I'm very curious to see if we'd use them. Our experience to date in the Caribbean has been that we sleep with a blanket because we're more than cool with a windscoop, even in the typical anchorage. Since we don't expect to be at docks overnight, to use the AC would mean running the generator, not something we're anxious to do. OTOH, I'll start yet another battery thread in a bit to see what we might be able to expect if we expand our capacity and do serious solar and wind, so, HooNose? Looks generally good and the price is good, too, probably because she is well into middle age and cosmetically a little worn and old fashioned in layout and trim. Indeed. Yet, that's also the one which *I* think could have the mods above done pretty reasonably. I'm getting a firm quote this evening. I suspect many here following "Skip's Saga" will be interested in the number. The 45K difference in price is "not trivial" as they say, and nice as "High Time" is, I would personally opt for $45K of custom work to do the cheaper, if equivalent boat just as I wanted it. Personally, I would do the V-berth as the workshop/storage area (light stuff, naturally) with maybe a pipe or Pulman berth on one side, with a big long locker beneath. We'd considered that, on another boat we were very much interested in, but, for this one, most likely would not do that, in that the V is adequate, but not really 'large' and to make it into a pullman would not only be at a considerable angle, it wouldn't leave much room for a workbench. This will be our guest cabin. However, back to the point - and, BTW, it's *55* and not just 45k difference - part of why I'm so drawn to it. We'd asked for several areas of work, some of which would be done on this boat as well. The shop we'd most likely use in the STP area, and the one providing the quote, is Salt Creek Boat Works. They've not given me a materials quote, but their labor is at $45/hour. In the course of my looking and research, mentioned in other posts, we found a couple of owners of sisterships who each had craftsmen they swore by who did their thing at $30/hour. Since HT is on the east coast, likely we'd use them for the few things we'd want done to her. Back to the 'project boat' though, likewise, I'm still attracted to that one for reasons not merely financial: It's a cutter, a deep keel, and already has two very large solars and two wind generators (and a towed generator, too!). However, these are the projects we'd asked about, and their estimates (time in hours) * Tool area - build and trim: 70-80 This area is currently nearly empty in terms of cabinetry, and has a washer/dryer. However, the watermaker, the SSB tuner and some other stuff would have to be relocated. In the FTL boat, there's minimal stuff to do, mostly in the topsides area which is all small parts storage in the example (M46Mod in the gallery) boat. * Salon seat - build and trim: 35-40 This project would also have to be done in the FTL boat, as there's currently just the pull-out double. V-Berth Achor Locker assembly 25-30 They'd put an enclosure on one of the shelves, making it really broken up and cramped-feeling ,and impeding the chain locker upper section. This would be removed. They'd screwed the chain locker shut - this would be resolved. There'd been prior water damage, which would be repaired in this process. Aft Head fix or replace as necessary 15-20 Prior water damage to sole and cabinets - replace as needed Center salon water damage 20-25 Prior water damage to the corner of the galley bulkhead and starboard vertical face of storage. This would be done either with a laminate, with all the teak of the doors and trim retained, or in teak, again. Can't be repaired due to veneer thickness Step storage aft cabin 8-10 When we'd looked at an Endeavour 42, one of the very nice touches was a step up to the berth, with a flip-up lid(s) for the step face. Underneath it was storage; under the face of the berth were batteries. The berth as it came is a full-sized athwart (4-4x6-8); to extend it to queen (5x6-8) is merely an 8" extension inside the 'U' of the berth. That could be left open underneath, with a step, or that space could be converted to storage.. Teak and Holly floor repair and finish 25 - Various areas of prior repair without T/H, or damaged locations, throughout This boat (the 'project boat in STP, recall) has been sitting at a canal dock for 3 years. While it's run and dived monthly, there's been no maintenance on the water-exclusion part of he boat. Whether it leaked earlier, or has developed this while it's sitting, there's some leaks. Anywhere there's water damage, they'll track and rectify that leak as feasible... Counter tops Galley area 20 - They need resurfacing to keep Lydia happy :{)) Salon Table change and laminate 6 - The current table is a monster which has a butterfly/knee extension to the port side. It's very unwieldy as it is now, so, we might Replace with new table (build) 15 This would be a new table, altogether, though we haven't quite figured out what it would be, exactly. Beneteau has a really neat application in their newer big-ish boats which could solve the problem of getting into a U and serving any large number - the table slides out, and also opens to accept a leaf. So, it can be smaller until needed to fill to the sides, and can pull out to let people in in any event. Going to the boat shows, you'll also see teak furniture being demonstrated. In some of those, the leaf disappears under the table, and that, too, particularly if it could be mounted on the same sort of slide arrangement, could solve the space/accessibility challenge of U seating. In any case, all of the work specified comes to 218-259 hours Even if we took the largest in each case, and estimated materials at the same as labor (unlikely, I think, unless I have a totally unrealistic view of what marine ply and teak veneer is worth), we're looking at a total of 23k to do it all. I'm expecting it would be well under 20... Back to High Time, in FTL: I'd keep the nav station for small jobs, but mostly just nav. The salon I would alter to seaberths with lee cloths. Mostly, you'll be two people only, not six, and if you have a second couple, they can be in the cabin. I'd agree. The spec in the port settee rebuild included lee cloths. It's already set up to extend from the base alone via flip-up from the floor-to-seatbase, supported with 4 fold-out arms. I think I'd try to figure out a way to relocate the AC from taking up the entirety of the base of the port settee as it does, now, though!! Extensive cruising creates extensive wear and extensive opportunities to correct and even improve beyond factory the effects of extensive wear. My boat is sounder now than when new in 1973, but looks pretty rough. Looks count for little in my book, and layout and "sensible, moderate, robust" systems and ease of access count for a lot. Your That's always been my driving factor, but Lydia's got a point in contending that this will be our home, as well as the difficulty of addressing that later, with all of our stuff aboard, or, perhaps, not at all, when it represents an additional expenditure and we'd rather keep in the kitty... True, which is why maybe the cheaper, less cosmetically pretty boat is better. Once you are aboard, you will quickly learn what works FOR YOU TWO as cruising liveaboards, and you can "slate for demolition" areas you want to custom refit as you can afford to. So, I'd be tickled with the 'cruising' boat, but also can't deny that the 'offer' boat is extremely well equipped and in great condition right from the start. Sure, but the price difference is pretty large for boats one year apart. Me, if the survey was similar, I'd pop for the cheaper boat and custom refit the worst of it right away, and refine the rest over time. I left the above intact rather than reply inline because of the thoughts presented tying together. We're getting closer to the realities of our departure and balance of our lives, and recommendations of "don't buy *anything* for your boat for the first year unless it's needed for safety and boat integrity" are ringing in our ears. I *believe* (a survey could prove me mistaken) the 'cruising boat' (the project boat) could be taken right away, even though she wouldn't be pretty. Of course, I also expect the same of High Time, but there *are* some things we know we want done or to do. One of the chief things *I* want to do is install as much solar as the top will hold, and at least one wind (most likely KISS) on the Mizzen, just because I don't want to run engines more than absolutely necessary. Beyond that, she's mostly equipped, but there's the port settee, and the batteries/Nav area we'd like to have attended to, as well as the bound-to-be-surveyor-recommended mizzen step repair. However, we *could* easily do without any of that, if push came to shove, assuming everything worked as currently installed. Which leads me to... First, a brief background - I have some surgery which will need doing once my concert season and my son's wedding are over (early May), and we both need to sell our houses. There's other stuff which needs cleaning up in our lives, but suffice it to say we most likely could not leave before the end of this year's hurricane season, regardless of how quickly we got our boat... The current Good Old Boat and Cruising World magazines that I'm reading have a bit to say about whether one rushes or takes one's time in getting from one place to another. The CW issue I'm in speaks of the particular routes one might take to the Caribbean, and how long they each take, including that one might spend the entire winter season just getting there. In our case, we'd be going from South FL, with our target being Saint Thomas. If we do the gentleman's passage, it will take some significant time, even if we don't do anything but sail, throw out the hook, and do it again the next day. Certainly, as the first things we do on the boat, I don't think I want to make a 'delivery run' of 10 or so days, straight through, if we're very lucky. So, that leaves the likely route of working our way down through the Bahamas, and then over. Well, there's lots of people who spend many months each year and don't wear out the Bahamas. Since 1) it's way north of our expected usual grounds and we're therefore not likely to get back again any time soon and 2) we have a complete set of charts from DAB to the Turks and Caicos from our prior circumnav leg which was what started this entire adventure, I'd rather expect we'd do some pretty extensive sailing around those areas. Then we'd likely do some of the same getting further south and east. Meanwhile, the time marches on. So, perhaps we don't even get to STT until, say, May or June. Hooray! Just in time for the hurricanes. So, off we go to the south. (You knew there'd be a connection, here...) So, without ever having hung on the hook and doing our work-a-day world as we plan to do (work the high season, cruise the off-season), here we are in Trinidad. How about getting our work done there, where it's perhaps that much a day, instead of per hour?? I keep plumping for that, but I don't think I can persuade Lydia to forego all the improvements/modifications before we leave. In particular, she's afraid of what laminate vs teak might look like if we were to do that to the 'project boat' - which is currently pretty dark below due to the color of the wood. And, so, she's very prejudiced against it, as well as wanting everything 'just so' before we set out. OTOH, if we were to wait, we could most likely easily afford to redo in teak, with the difference in costs... Decisions, decisions :{)) But, I tell ya... It's sure fun getting there. We're starting to taste the salt spray... L8R Skip (and Lydia, by proxy) -- "And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin |
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