On Sep 26, 4:45 pm, Peter wrote:
I have not followed closely the adventures of Skip and Lydia.



None of us is an expert at
anything.

Well I sugest that you go to China for your next surgery.

Also, after reading this board since 2000 I disagree. There are
several experts who post here.



Everybody can learn something from everybody else.

Yes,,,, even if it is what NOT to do!


Skip
and Lydia are not embarrassed to admit their shortcomings.

Neither are the people on Jerry Springer, but..................

I can only
say that many nay-sayers and critics have never really been there
themselves.

Dear Peter:
I disagree completly. As one notiable social scientest said,
"...Stupid is as Stupid does....."

"You can lead a horse to water but ya cant make em drink." BUT, The
true secrect is being able to create the thirst!
Some people arent that thirsty for knowledge. As relsult they are
destened to repeat their same short comming over and over and over
again.

So dear peter............ GFY


BOb

On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:45:03 -0700, Peter wrote:

I have not followed closely the adventures of Skip and Lydia. I
admire their honesty and bravery. None of us is an expert at
anything. Everybody can learn something from everybody else.

And I do hope I have taught you something about coffee.

--Vic

On Sep 26, 4:45 pm, Peter wrote:
None of us is an expert at
anything.

And that was answered by Bob thusly:
Well I sugest that you go to China for your next surgery.

Also, after reading this board since 2000 I disagree. There are
several experts who post here.

Well Bob,
Have you checked out the hospitals in China? In what country do you
think their doctors get their schooling? (A hint - it's real close)
But the chinese have quite a different philosophy then our medical
people here do - they are willing to use what works - not just what is
'approved' by the AMA and insurance companies. You think that our
medical system here works well? Then how do you explain the fact we rank
somewhere around 32nd in mortality in developed nations? BTW, thats
almost dead last. I agree that we have one of the best *emergency care*
systems in the world and bravo to them for that, but we do not have a
very good "health care" system. Heck, most doctors in this country
wouldn't recognize health if it slapped them in the face. As a class
they are one of the most unhealthy groups in the country, and they have
no excuse for that except that they believe their own hype and bull****.

As for your second comment: I have known lots of "experts", and here's
what I think of them - anyone who considers himself the ultimate
authority on any subject is a person who has decided to stop learning.
Most medical doctors think of themselves as "experts", yet they are
wrong so often one has to wonder why they went to med school in the
first place. When you present something to them that you know to be
true, if it in any way contradicts what he/she thinks they will just
give you one of 'those looks' and usher you out of their office. How
many times have you heard a doctor pronounce that something or other is
"incurable"? Numerous doctors pronounced that to my mother about her
heart diseases and yet within 3 weeks of using high-dose nutritional
therapy she had none of what they told her was "incurable". So ya know
what they told her? It was a "spontaneous remission" (of something they
said could not ever be cured!). Never mind the fact they told her
previously that there was no possibility of a remission. They were not
about to give up any of their dogma, no sir, no matter what. After all,
they're the "experts". I wish I had a buck for each time a doctor
wondered aloud what nutrition has to do with your health...

I do however, agree with another of your comments. Any person (who isn't
an expert) can learn from anyone "even if it is what NOT to do" - and
that ain't a bad thing, Bob, as long as you can recognize the difference
- as I suspect most here have the brains to do. And yes, I do think a
number of people here posses a high degree of knowledge and intellect,
but let's be careful about insulting them by calling them "experts".

Red

PS as far as S&L - when I'm working on boats it surprises me how many
times something from one of their stories pops into my head and reminds
me to check something or other out. Ever notice how many boats have
mis-aligned alternator pullies, for instance? And the discussions that
follow his stories are excellent learning opportunities that may not
have taken place had he not written about it in the first place.

Red wrote in news:dUWKi.1464$hP.1284
@newsfe12.lga:

Then how do you explain the fact we rank
somewhere around 32nd in mortality in developed nations? BTW, thats
almost dead last.

More people died, today, from medical mistakes than ever died in Iraq for
the whole war!

Supporting documentation:
http://www.cancure.org/medical_errors.htm
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/mistakes/common.htm

Even the Drug Cartel's own FDA admits it:
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2000/500_err.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/11856.php
198,000/year in 2000, 2001, 2002.

Drivers and cars aren't the most dangerous products in America....DOCTORS
AND NURSES ARE! And NOONE does anything about it. There's money to be
made!

Larry
--
Avoiding medical mistakes....since 1964!
No doctors, no drugs, no medical mistakes.

In memory of Captain Cecil Jowers, S/V "Custom Canvas".
His MUSC doctors misdiagnosed bone cancer until it killed him.
He was my friend and my captain......may he rest in peace.
My last visit with him, always the strongest man on the boat, I had to
turn him over in his nursing home bed because he could not move on his
own.....

On Sep 27, 7:17 pm, Red wrote:


Red

PS as far as S&L - when I'm working on boats it surprises me how many
times something from one of their stories pops into my head and reminds
me to check something or other out. Ever notice how many boats have
mis-aligned alternator pullies, for instance? And the discussions that
follow his stories are excellent learning opportunities that may not
have taken place had he not written about it in the first place.

Hi, Red, and list,

At the risk of throwing gasoline (diesel?) on the fire, thank you for
that. It's exactly why I post our misadventures. As seen in prior
discussions on the point, I ignore the inevitable flames from those
whose **** don't stink (not just in this forum, so don't feel
special), and engage those looking for additional info or our learning
experiences from the adventure (as they all are, if they don't kill
you).

And, Wilbur, clearly you haven't been paying attention, or perhaps
hadn't shown up in this persona (I don't recall) at the time of our
wreck, but within a couple of days, I did, in fact post (search "I
learned about sailing from that") a rather extensive examination of
how we got to be in that predicament.

I don't "get off" on posting ways we might have done something
different, or the consequences therefrom. I get off on illustrating
how (and why) things can have different outcomes than expected, and
how some of what looked to be disasters were, in fact, tremendously
beneficial in the end, but, mostly, as seen above, so that others can
gain from our experience.

I did an awful lot of that (gaining from others' experience) in the
early years on this list (where were you, then?), and contribute where
I feel I can make a difference. Aside from attack, what do you
contribute to make a difference?

As in an earlier post, it's your turn to post about your experiences.
I haven't seen any since that post, now some time ago...

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"You are never given a wish without also being given the power
to make it come true. You may have to work for it however."
(and)
"There is no such thing as a problem without a gift for you in
its hands. You seek problems because you need their gifts."
(Richard Bach, in The Reluctant Messiah)

On Sep 28, 11:33 am, wrote:
On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 15:09:54 -0000, Skip Gundlach



wrote:
On Sep 27, 7:17 pm, Red wrote:

Red

PS as far as S&L - when I'm working on boats it surprises me how many
times something from one of their stories pops into my head and reminds
me to check something or other out. Ever notice how many boats have
mis-aligned alternator pullies, for instance? And the discussions that
follow his stories are excellent learning opportunities that may not
have taken place had he not written about it in the first place.

Hi, Red, and list,

At the risk of throwing gasoline (diesel?) on the fire, thank you for
that. It's exactly why I post our misadventures. As seen in prior
discussions on the point, I ignore the inevitable flames from those
whose **** don't stink (not just in this forum, so don't feel
special), and engage those looking for additional info or our learning
experiences from the adventure (as they all are, if they don't kill
you).

And, Wilbur, clearly you haven't been paying attention, or perhaps
hadn't shown up in this persona (I don't recall) at the time of our
wreck, but within a couple of days, I did, in fact post (search "I
learned about sailing from that") a rather extensive examination of
how we got to be in that predicament.

I don't "get off" on posting ways we might have done something
different, or the consequences therefrom. I get off on illustrating
how (and why) things can have different outcomes than expected, and
how some of what looked to be disasters were, in fact, tremendously
beneficial in the end, but, mostly, as seen above, so that others can
gain from our experience.

You claim to learn from experience, yet you continue to try and have a
rational conversation with Wilbur/Neal/Ellen.

What's that popular quote about the root of insanity?

:{)) Well said.

OTOH, if it's Neal hiding under there, once in a while he'd let go of
a nugget of truth. Somewhat like Jax, whose whereabouts I've been
unaware for some years, as I pointed out when Neal made a reappearance
a couple of years ago, and for which he thanked me, seeing my comment
as a defense of his blather.

FWIW, and entirely OT, Wilbur claimed to have bought Neal's boat from
his estate a while back, and more recently, claimed to be in
conversation with him. Either he's a medium as well as cyclist, or he
forgets what he sez in which persona :{)) Either way, he's
entertaining, which I understand to be why Bruce continues to engage
him despite the similar lack of actual progress.

I'm off to the hardware store, having managed to have lost the transom
attaching hardware for my Porta-Bote, and to Fawcetts, to see if the
Spinnaker halyard turning block was one of the ones my surveyor said
was recalled by Shaeffer...

L8R

Skip

Skip, your welcome... and thanks.
And I'm still kicking myself for not making the time to come out and
meet you while you were up north here.
Red

On Sep 27, 4:17 pm, Red wrote:
On Sep 26, 4:45 pm, Peter wrote:
None of us is an expert at
anything.

And that was answered by Bob thusly:
Well I sugest that you go to China for your next surgery.

Also, after reading this board since 2000 I disagree. There are
several experts who post here.

Well Bob,
Have you checked out the hospitals in China?

Not personally but have talked to a doc who went there on some sort
disaster help thing.


In what country do you
think their doctors get their schooling?

I dont have any numbers . Do you or are yo just blowin more stuf out
ur ass?

(A hint - it's real close)
But the chinese have quite a different philosophy then our medical
people here do - they are willing to use what works - not just what is
'approved' by the AMA and insurance companies.

Youre right on that one. China has such limitted medical services
people will use ANY THING ! Tell you what, since some people get cured
with the placebo effect I suggest you give it a try next time you got
a good case of MRSA growing in your nose and see if that goldenseal
poltus adn acupuncture works.

You think that our
medical system here works well?

Absolutly..................... for the rich. If you got good insurance
I wouldnt go anywhere else. If not ur screwed


Then how do you explain the fact we rank
somewhere around 32nd in mortality in developed nations? BTW, thats
almost dead last.



Since you did not define what you mean by "mortality" I'll assume
youre another republikan anti medical system cook and go with their
talking point ie, if our medical system is so good why do so many
people die in the US?


Simple,
1) accuarate reporting
2) fat people who smoke


We are dying from the good life u republicans want for everyone.....
more chips and dips please.


I agree that we have one of the best *emergency care*
systems in the world and bravo to them for that, but we do not have a
very good "health care" system.


Your right, its a system run by the free market system. Little
government control. So you get the insurance companines, drug makers,
and hospital owners, oh, and the had workin private bussiness
workers... the docs trying to controll the market and make as much
money as possible.

Heck, most doctors in this country
wouldn't recognize health if it slapped them in the face.


Tell that to the surgun in the town I live. He is also a major in the
NG. He finished his 2nd tour in some forward aid station a few months
ago. Your right, I can see why you think he is real jerk giving up his
plush office, family, and big bucks to give those guys with their
guts in the dirt a chance to live.



As a class
they are one of the most unhealthy groups in the country, and they have
no excuse for that except that they believe their own hype and bull****.

Ya kno red, I think im gona do something more important right now.
First Im gona finish my beer n then take a big ****.

Take your AM radio talking points somplace else. They are predictable
and boaring.

Ahhhhh ...........I feel a big one comming down the pike now.... gotta
go bro!
bob

Ahhhhh ...........I feel a big one comming down the pike now.... gotta
go bro!
bob

Ya know Bob, its too bad you let yer brains go down the toilet like that
- oh and I really doubt it was that big, judging by the rest of your reply.

And for your information braindeadBob, I am neither a Republicant nor a
Democrap. In fact I can actually think, which is why I form my own
opinions instead of taking the word of religious zealots like you for
things they know not of.

If you had bothered to actually read my post, you would have
discoverd... Nahh, you really wouldn't get it anyway, thinking isn't
exactly what your strong suit.

Your right, I can see why you think he is real jerk giving up his
plush office, family, and big bucks to give those guys with their
guts in the dirt a chance to live.

And just where in the world did you get the idea that I think someone,
ANYONE, in the military is a "jerk" for doing his duty? I have quite a
great deal of repect for everyone in our military, having spent half my
life there. Like I said, braindeadBob, you didn't understand my post.
Nor, evidently, did you even bother to read the part I wrote about us
having the best emergency care in the world. Now just what do you think
that "surgun" you know was doing over there, huh, Mr. braindeadBob? Was
he perhaps doing *emergency* care? Ya think? Get back to me after you do
some research, ok?

Red