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Thrift shop distiller $9
http://tinyurl.com/yr7jny
I doubled my distiller capacity this morning from a find in a local thrift shop I frequent. This model sells at Sears for $99, on sale if you'd like a great distiller at a good price. I paid $9 for it with the usual broken boiler seal. The seals fail because they are made of linear seal material and Waterwise, the actual manufacturer, cuts the material TOO SHORT every time, then superglues the ends together to form what SHOULD have been an O-ring, 1/4" in thickness around the seal. My solution costs, of course, nearly nothing. 1/4" latex hose from Home Depot, a lifetime supply of seals it's so long, is a couple of bucks and when cut to the proper length, I use polyester 1/4" water hose made for your freezer's ice maker to make a 1" interconnecting nipple to put the ends together making the latex hose airtight and full of air. When the heat comes up on the boiler, the pressure inside the hose, of course, increases, forming a very tight, steam-proof seal in the stainless steel cover's groove. Nothing escapes, even after 2 years of service, in my other Waterwise distiller, a better model than this with a clock-timer and computer which tracks the carbon filter hours. The original seal is long forgotten because Sears wanted $16 for a tiny length of door seal, last time I checked a few years ago. My seal works much better, once the hose gets hot a few times so it conforms to the groove and stops binding with the pot. The longer it's used, the better it works. Sears' price of $99 is VERY much more reasonable than Waterwise wants at $469.00 for the one with the digital control in it! Sears must be closing them out as they didn't sell well over $100. They didn't really "sell" them, they stocked them with the chinzy carbon filters. This stainless steel distill WILL turn seawater into distilled water at about 2.8ppm total dissolved solids. I've tried it with mine, just for the hell of it. Hell, creek or lake water leaves LESS residue in the pot than Charleston city water! Of course, seawater cakes the boiler with solid salt after you boil the water off it, but it washes right off the stainless steel this boiler is made from with a light plastic brush. It'll make 4 gallons per day if you have shore power or a 2KW+ genset running continuously. Instead of buying the overly-expensive carbon filters that go in the top of the carafes on both my distillers, I buy coffee filter paper made for old-fashioned percolators that are just flat sheets that fold up around the coffee with holes in them for the tube. I fold at these holes and push into the carafe's filter holder, fill with activated carbon from WalMart's fish tank department (16 oz is $3, a lifetime supply), and fold the paper neatly over it to seal the carbon granules inside while I put it in the cover, upside down pushing up until it clicks. Works great, change it every 100 gallons or when the water starts tasting slightly metallic, indicating the carbon has loaded up with benzene, which distillers also distill out of the water. An overall good day at the thrift shop. The other day I bought a Netgear MR814 v3 4-port + wireless router for $4 with the Netgear wall wart, no book. Luckily, thrift shop employees aren't well versed in data network gear...(c; It sells for $99, too! Larry -- You don't HAVE to drink those exotic bugs and the swampwater from the docks, you know. This distiller's output water is simply delicious...even from seawater! |
Thrift shop distiller $9
What is the motivation to use a distiller if you have a city water supply? Also, is this unit really an option instead of a water-maker for anchored sail-boats away from city water? How does it compare at 4 gallons for 500 watts X 24 hours compared to a water-maker? Or is it really just for cleaning up the fresh water from your tank before ingesting? -Koos. On Sep 5, 1:32 pm, Larry wrote: http://tinyurl.com/yr7jny I doubled my distiller capacity this morning from a find in a local thrift shop I frequent. This model sells at Sears for $99, on sale if you'd like a great distiller at a good price. I paid $9 for it with the usual broken boiler seal. |
Thrift shop distiller $9
....
The reverse osmosis water maker (admittedly not a new one) on my boat makes about 1 gph using 5 amps at 12V, so this is about 60 WH/gal. .... My Spectra makes 8 gph at 8 amps. That makes R/O a full order a magnitude more efficient in energy terms than the distiller. Of course, the price of the first gallon of purified water is ~$100 for the distiller and ~$5k for the Spectra at retail... -- Tom. |
Thrift shop distiller $9
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Thrift shop distiller $9
On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 18:14:37 +0000, Larry wrote:
wrote in news:1189028886.744618.98920 : What is the motivation to use a distiller if you have a city water supply? My personal motivation is to stop the KIDNEY STONES! Charleston's lakewater/riverwater public water supply is full of elemental dissolved calcium, enough to make stalactites I think. The whole inside of my distillers are coated with it, like concrete. It takes some exotic acid to clean it out. If you've never had a kidney stone pass through the plumbing, you cannot imagine the PAIN it causes. What's the cost of some common bottled water? Never drink it, but maybe some brands are low in minerals. My other motivation came after seeing what the distiller DIDN'T distill, left concentrated in the bottom of its boiler! Lately, in the last couple of months, the major residue looks like PLUFF MUD, the only way I can describe it. Nice description. I get it. Why drink sewage when pure water is so simple to make and so cheap, about 25c/gallon at my awful electric rates. Even my parrots love it and have never gotten sick in 25 years. That's probably cheaper than store-bought. Do your parrots talk? What do they actually *say* about that water? BTW, I passed through Gila Bend, Arizona once. The cold water there is about 120 F, and thick with minerals. I was in a grocery eyeing the bottled water, but hate buying water. I asked the cashier if the city water was safe, and she said "I've been drinking it 50 years, and I'm doing just fine." I said, "You misunderstand. I need it for my van's radiator." As ugly as she was, I went ahead and bought a couple gallons. snip heat exhanger/distiller stuff. You should try something on that, but I'm pretty sure space and complexity issues will keep it from happening. What about cleaning up the RO issues you've pointed out. Got anything for that? --Vic |
Thrift shop distiller $9
" wrote in
oups.com: ... The reverse osmosis water maker (admittedly not a new one) on my boat makes about 1 gph using 5 amps at 12V, so this is about 60 WH/gal. ... My Spectra makes 8 gph at 8 amps. That makes R/O a full order a magnitude more efficient in energy terms than the distiller. Of course, the price of the first gallon of purified water is ~$100 for the distiller and ~$5k for the Spectra at retail... -- Tom. Someone sent me an email looking for a comparison. Of course, RO sellers think RO is best and distiller sellers, like this guy, think distillation is best. I happen to agree with the latter for the reasons shown on: http://www.qualitywatersystems.net/education.html One of my distillers is 30 years old and, though not as efficient and easy to use as these new countertop models I prefer now, works perfectly at around 1.8 ppm total dissolved solids after carbon filtration....after 30 years of ABUSE. If your RO membrane gets a pinhole in it, you'll never know it....until someone gets sick, which is EXACTLY what I think happens on RO-equipped cruise ships where massive gastrointestinal outbreaks occurs. All the people on the ship are drinking RO'd seawater...the common element to everyone that's sick. I looked but can't find the article I read about bacterial breakdown against the RO membrane. I suppose many RO interests don't want it on the net. It was about the bacteria breaking apart under the pressures RO uses, then the toxins in the bacteria being released, passing right through the filter membrane into the output side. It was a scary report I'm sure many would want BURIED.... Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
Thrift shop distiller $9
Vic Smith wrote in
: What's the cost of some common bottled water? Never drink it, but maybe some brands are low in minerals. About $1/gallon, some more (designer labels from exotic places). Distilled water has NO minerals. This is NOT harmful! Water is the CLEANER for body waste, not a source of nutrients. Elemental molecules in it simply make it less of a cleaner. Case in point, water with dissolved calcium or iron, etc., is BAD FOR YOU. Your body doesn't get iron from iron in the water or calcium for good bones from calcium. The body makes PAINFUL kidney stones filtering the calcium out! I have many first hand experiences! The filter business lives to tell potential buyers how awful clean water is for them...with no "nutrients" in it. It's a TOTAL LIE. Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
Thrift shop distiller $9
Vic Smith wrote in
: That's probably cheaper than store-bought. Do your parrots talk? What do they actually *say* about that water? BTW, I passed through Gila Bend, Arizona once. The cold water there is about 120 F, and thick with minerals. I was in a grocery eyeing the bottled water, but hate buying water. I asked the cashier if the city water was safe, and she said "I've been drinking it 50 years, and I'm doing just fine." I said, "You misunderstand. I need it for my van's radiator." As ugly as she was, I went ahead and bought a couple gallons. snip heat exhanger/distiller stuff. You should try something on that, but I'm pretty sure space and complexity issues will keep it from happening. What about cleaning up the RO issues you've pointed out. Got anything for that? Parrots both talk, INCESSANTLY. I wish they'd never learned....OR HEARD AN ELECTRONIC TONE! Once learned, any sound is repeated, AD NAUSEUM! It's only funny the first 3 days. Then it drives me CRAZY! Luckily, there is an on-off switch! Simply cover the cages and they sleep, giving you a break in blessed SILENCE! Too quiet at home? Get a parrot! Space is not a problem for an engine distiller. We simply replace the water-cooling exhaust system with a primary boiler to suck the heat out of the exhaust gasses, cooling the exhaust like we're doing now, by making STEAM, not heating seawater. The same indirect engine cooling system in use today, is replaced by a transmission oil primary loop running at 300F, hot enough to heat a boiler to steam, and replace the seawater cooling system with a seawater feedwater-to-steam plant, complete with a backflush to wash out the salt when you shut it down. The seawater steam condensor is simply a stainless steel version of the freon condensor in any seawater cooled marine air condition you already have on the boat. Seawater condenses the steam into pure water in a stainless, not copper, pipe for collection and use. The heat transferred to the seawater is dumped overboard or can be used to heat fresh water in the water tank. Because steam gives up its heat in condensation, there's LOTS of heat coming out of it.....nearly, we hope, 100% of the heat you put in if there's no leakage...which is impossible. There's plenty of hot seawater to heat the hot water tank on the way overboard. A genset exhaust is also an excellent source for a seawater distiller heat source.... Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
Thrift shop distiller $9
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:41:39 +0000, Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote in : That's probably cheaper than store-bought. Do your parrots talk? What do they actually *say* about that water? BTW, I passed through Gila Bend, Arizona once. The cold water there is about 120 F, and thick with minerals. I was in a grocery eyeing the bottled water, but hate buying water. I asked the cashier if the city water was safe, and she said "I've been drinking it 50 years, and I'm doing just fine." I said, "You misunderstand. I need it for my van's radiator." As ugly as she was, I went ahead and bought a couple gallons. snip heat exhanger/distiller stuff. You should try something on that, but I'm pretty sure space and complexity issues will keep it from happening. What about cleaning up the RO issues you've pointed out. Got anything for that? Parrots both talk, INCESSANTLY. I wish they'd never learned....OR HEARD AN ELECTRONIC TONE! Once learned, any sound is repeated, AD NAUSEUM! It's only funny the first 3 days. Then it drives me CRAZY! Luckily, there is an on-off switch! Simply cover the cages and they sleep, giving you a break in blessed SILENCE! Too quiet at home? Get a parrot! Space is not a problem for an engine distiller. We simply replace the water-cooling exhaust system with a primary boiler to suck the heat out of the exhaust gasses, cooling the exhaust like we're doing now, by making STEAM, not heating seawater. The same indirect engine cooling system in use today, is replaced by a transmission oil primary loop running at 300F, hot enough to heat a boiler to steam, and replace the seawater cooling system with a seawater feedwater-to-steam plant, complete with a backflush to wash out the salt when you shut it down. The seawater steam condensor is simply a stainless steel version of the freon condensor in any seawater cooled marine air condition you already have on the boat. Seawater condenses the steam into pure water in a stainless, not copper, pipe for collection and use. The heat transferred to the seawater is dumped overboard or can be used to heat fresh water in the water tank. Because steam gives up its heat in condensation, there's LOTS of heat coming out of it.....nearly, we hope, 100% of the heat you put in if there's no leakage...which is impossible. There's plenty of hot seawater to heat the hot water tank on the way overboard. A genset exhaust is also an excellent source for a seawater distiller heat source.... Larry Larry, Explain that again in one syllable words for me :-) As I understand what you are saying you mean to remove the present water cooled exhaust manifold from the cooling system and replace it with a heat exchanger device to heat what? Water to make steam or oil to heat water to make steam? Or did I miss something there? The reason I ask is because many years ago I maintained a distillation plant that used exhaust heat to make steam. If I remember correctly the primary power was a Perkins 4-108 diesel and it didn't make enough exhaust heat to boil water at sea level atmospheric pressure. The distillation vessel was heated as hot as possible using the exhaust and then an engine driven vacuum pump dropped the pressure in the still to create steam at temperatures lower then 212F. Whether this was done to increase thruput or because exhaust heat alone was not sufficient I do not recollect. In any event, given the cost of reverse osmosis systems using engine heat would seem rather attractive. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
Thrift shop distiller $9
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:41:39 +0000, Larry wrote:
Parrots both talk, INCESSANTLY. I wish they'd never learned....OR HEARD AN ELECTRONIC TONE! Once learned, any sound is repeated, AD NAUSEUM! It's only funny the first 3 days. Then it drives me CRAZY! Luckily, there is an on-off switch! Simply cover the cages and they sleep, giving you a break in blessed SILENCE! Too quiet at home? Get a parrot! Thanks for the best laugh I've had in a while, Larry. BTW, my wife bought a battery powered "parrot" which has a sound activated recording and playback system. Pretty irritating after the novelty wears off. She sent it to her mother in Poland, where it was the hit of the village. Don't know if it still lives on. --Vic |
Thrift shop distiller $9
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Thrift shop distiller $9
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Thrift shop distiller $9
Vic Smith wrote in
: I'm still interested in Larry's thoughts about the "bacteria" issues he has seen in RO units. His thoughts on the cruise boat ailments being related to the watermakers are very interesting. Here's some interesting membrane information from one of the RO makers. http://www.hydrovane-watermakers.com/products.html Notice how much time they spend talking about "pickling" and "flushing" and warning not to flush the membrane with chlorinated water, which destroys it. They also make some vague references to bacterial contamination but don't delve into scary subjects that trash sales, of course. I gave up looking for the old article I was looking for to show you after the third time IE's latest version was hijacked by some self-installing spyware bull**** the net is eaten alive with. I hate looking at webpages any more. Someone should HANG FROM THE YARDARM. Sorry....(c; Universities are worth searching like: http://www.rpi.edu/dept/chem-eng/Biotech- Environ/MISC/biotreat/reverseo.html http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/h2oqual/watsys/ae1047w.htm http://extoxnet.orst.edu/factsheets/mk_nl2.asc These RO guys look interesting: http://store.bigbrandwater.com/poorsaplcr.html they should know the answers.... In the meantime, his stovetop distillers are working well for him, and use heat in a time-tested and pretty efficient way, with almost direct application of flame to water. --Vic I don't own a stovetop distiller. Mine are all electric, 1 commercial and 2 countertop home units. The last one is a countertop Sears sells from Waterwise in Florida. I paid $9 for it at a thrift shop, hardly ever used it looks like. http://www.waterwise.com/products/products.asp One of my units is the 8800, but the Sears-branded model. The newest one looks like the 8800, but is a Sear-only unit that's much cheaper without the computer/clock controls. It resets by simply resetting the kettle trip overtemp thermostat with a push button under the handle. Sears sells them for about $100. Makes not quite a gallon. The 8800 makes over a gallon in 4 hours. Both units work excellently with no steam leakage and great convenience. I buy Deer Park brand 3 litre polycarbonate bottled water from the grocery store. I'm not interested in the city water they bottle, just the bottle itself. These make excellent storage bottles for my output. They have two dimples molded into the strong plastic for non-protruding handles and a LARGE CAP to make it easier to fill. I just dump the product down the drain when I finally wear out one of my 6 bottles in storage. I used to distill into 5 gallon commercial water bottles. I have 3 real glass ones I can sanitize in the oven, not polycarb plastic. I also have an Oasis bottled water cooler to put them in, making really great, REALLY COLD water always available. I paid $25 for the big cooler, another thrift shop bargain....(c; It plugs in, of course. Larry -- Why drink the government's chemical soup when you can drink pure? |
Thrift shop distiller $9
Vic Smith wrote in
: On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 01:41:39 +0000, Larry wrote: Parrots both talk, INCESSANTLY. I wish they'd never learned....OR HEARD AN ELECTRONIC TONE! Once learned, any sound is repeated, AD NAUSEUM! It's only funny the first 3 days. Then it drives me CRAZY! Luckily, there is an on-off switch! Simply cover the cages and they sleep, giving you a break in blessed SILENCE! Too quiet at home? Get a parrot! Thanks for the best laugh I've had in a while, Larry. BTW, my wife bought a battery powered "parrot" which has a sound activated recording and playback system. Pretty irritating after the novelty wears off. She sent it to her mother in Poland, where it was the hit of the village. Don't know if it still lives on. --Vic Have you sent Poland a "Billy Bass" plaque, yet?! The novelty wears off them really fast, too. I see 10 a week at the local thrift shop shelves....(c; The parrots are very irritating, but so are all pets, sometimes. But, I'm typing this with my hand-raised Blue and Gold Macaw sitting on my shoulder....on one foot.....asleep....leaning against my right ear. I can hear his little two-chambered, simple heart beating away through his left wing. I don't see how they live 100 years with it beating so hard, even while asleep! It's just thumping away. His head is under his right wing, where they store it while sleeping. He snores and that one foot he's balanced on sure has a strong grip if I move, even while he's sleeping. It grabs on right through my t-shirt into the skin...ouch! I used to keep fish, but every time I took them out of the tank to teach them to talk....they always died, so I switched to parrots. I've had birds most of my life. My first bird was a common crow that fell out of a nest in my grandmother's front yard in upstate NY. I hand fed it from the information in a book I found at Powers' Library in our little town that was 100 years old. It lived outside in Summer and inside in winter when it should have flown south. When I was in elementary school, school let out at 3PM. That crow knew the time! It would wait for me to exit the building, then swoop down and land on my head, and only my head, in the sea of children running out of the building. I think he liked me...(c; When I was in the 8th grade, one day, it never showed up again and was never seen again, much to my hurt and dismay. I'm glad I never found him dead. I like to think he found him a mate...(c; Well, I think I'll put "Roger-Roger" (he says his name just like some pilot on the radio) back in his cage and go get some dinner....He'll be looking for me to put him over a garbage can to "bomb" as soon as I wake him. He's the best trained bird I ever had...POTTY TRAINED! That took 3 years of patience before he got it right. It's much better than the skating around on bird skates my Yellow Nape, "Zeke", can do. He will not poop on you unless he just can't help it. Very hard to teach them. Oh, the sequence is to put him over the can (with plastic bag, please!), say "Do your business.", to him. He will then look at the can, probably something to do with "targeting", sometimes adding "DROP IT!" in a deep, low voice if he remembers, then "bombing the target"....followed by yelling, "BOMBS AWAY!!" VERY LOUDLY....to the delight of anyone who sees it....(c; I've only seen one other bird that duplicates this trick, but have been told of many others. Teaching them how to skate is really easy in comparison....(c; "NO BITING!"....MY favorite trick! If you, a stranger, approach his cage and peer in at him, he's trained to say, "Oh-oh...Now what?!"....(c; Great fun, every time. As I pass his cage in the dark on my way to my bedroom, he says, "'Nite Bird.", very quietly.....because that's what I used to say to him when he was a chick. When I got him he was 3 days out of the egg, hand feeding every hour or so, 24/7. He's about as long as a yardstick, now, when his tailfeathers are new and in good condition. He can cut a whole Brazil nut in half, melting that beak through it like a knife through butter. He can also pick up the thinnest grape without puncturing its thin skin, put the point of that beak inside through the skin and use his tongue to rotate his beak around inside that grape to root out the guts of it to eat...leaving a skin so thin you can see through it on the floor.....so delicate it's amazing. If he wants to bite you, he could cut off your wrist. He can also take hold of your ear and stick that leathery tongue into your ear canal...just to get a taste of you....OR TO FEED YOU WHAT'S IN HIS CROP IF YOU LOOK LIKE YOU NEED FEEDING!...(C;.....Yecch!! Larry -- Parrots are a LIFE sentence.... a two-year-old kid that NEVER grows up! |
Thrift shop distiller $9
Larry, somehow the saying "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch"
kept popping into my head as I read your post. It is my understanding that phase change methods of water purification take about an order of magnitude more energy than filtration systems to convert sea water to drinkable water. So, it seems to me that if you are going to harness the "excess" heat or the excess velocity of the exhaust gases to convert sea water to potable water you would be much better off using R/0 in pure heat terms. Doubtlessly I am missing something obvious but perhaps I am not alone in this as most cruise ships and municipalities that do seawater conversion use R/O even though they tend to have lots of heat available from their diesel generation systems. Sorry to be dense about this. What am I missing? -- Tom. |
Thrift shop distiller $9
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 21:14:16 +0000, Larry wrote:
Have you sent Poland a "Billy Bass" plaque, yet?! The novelty wears off them really fast, too. I see 10 a week at the local thrift shop shelves....(c; Hell no! First time I saw one I figured whoever designed it was only half as smart as the dumbest bass. Makes a whoopee cushion look positively classy. BTW, my wife told me the talking bird is alive and well, but her mother now has to lock her doors to keep the villagers from kidnapping it. The parrots are very irritating, but so are all pets, sometimes. But, I'm typing this with my hand-raised Blue and Gold Macaw sitting on my shoulder....on one foot.....asleep....leaning against my right ear. I can hear his little two-chambered, simple heart beating away through his left wing. I don't see how they live 100 years with it beating so hard, even while asleep! It's just thumping away. His head is under his right wing, where they store it while sleeping. He snores and that one foot he's balanced on sure has a strong grip if I move, even while he's sleeping. It grabs on right through my t-shirt into the skin...ouch! Wow. You put me right there. If you, a stranger, approach his cage and peer in at him, he's trained to say, "Oh-oh...Now what?!"....(c; Great fun, every time. My youngest daughter was walking at 7 months and amazing the neighborhood kids. She knew to say "mama" and "dada." Her third word was "What?!" Didn't mean anything, she just liked it. A 10-year old friend of my son's came over to the front fence to ask my wife if he could come out to play. He didn't even see the little one standing on the other side of the fence at his feet. Just as he was about to say something to my wife the little shouted up at him "What?!" He about had a heart attack, shouting at my wife, "She can talk! She can talk!" Thanks for the parrot stories. I'll remember them. --Vic |
Thrift shop distiller $9
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:48:39 +0000, Larry wrote:
Vic Smith wrote in : I'm still interested in Larry's thoughts about the "bacteria" issues he has seen in RO units. His thoughts on the cruise boat ailments being related to the watermakers are very interesting. I gave up looking for the old article I was looking for to show you after the third time IE's latest version was hijacked by some self-installing spyware bull**** the net is eaten alive with. I hate looking at webpages any more. Someone should HANG FROM THE YARDARM. Sorry....(c; The free AVG and Zone Alarm have virtually stopped that for me. I use my C: partition for the OS and program files only, Ghosting it often. If I suspect an infection I just restore the image. Before, when I was manually removing infections, I got a very strong suspicion that many of the virii are being propagated not by simple vandals, but by those with financial connections to the various ant-virus money-making corporations and businesses. Hanging from the yardarm isn't good enough. Thanks for the links. I'll look into them. In the meantime, his stovetop distillers are working well for him, and use heat in a time-tested and pretty efficient way, with almost direct application of flame to water. I don't own a stovetop distiller. Mine are all electric, 1 commercial and 2 countertop home units. The last one is a countertop Sears sells from Waterwise in Florida. I paid $9 for it at a thrift shop, hardly ever used it looks like. Yeah, I knew that, but forgot. Probably thinking about how I would do it given natural gas is cheaper than electricity here. But even with that, your electric units might be more practical here too. --Vic |
Thrift shop distiller $9
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 19:45:09 +0000, Larry wrote:
wrote in news:m4p4e354ggmshgch6l42g4gutlpd5g19u0@ 4ax.com: Explain that again in one syllable words for me :-) As I understand what you are saying you mean to remove the present water cooled exhaust manifold from the cooling system and replace it with a heat exchanger device to heat what? Water to make steam or oil to heat water to make steam? Or did I miss something there? To BOIL, not heat, seawater into steam...while still flushing the manifold with a tiny bit of seawater to carry the salt, biologicals and pollutants overboard at 212F. I want to turn the exhaust manifold into an evaporator, just like the big ships USED to have before RO. The water in the exhaust heat exchanger would have a controlled flow of seawater into it to A) maintain boiling temperature while B) flushing out the remnants overboard, self flushing evaporator, which isn't new. In general I agree but practically I'm not sure how much heat you can pump into the exhaust water jacket considering that we still want the engine to do its primary job of pushing the boat and exhaust back pressure effects horsepower output. Having said that I suspect that there would be some lower limit on the size of the engine below which the system is not going to produce enough BTU's of heat to evaporate a usable amount of water. If you are using a, say, 50 H.P. engine then a very small volume of water keeps the engine cool while if we are using a 2,000 HP engine then it requires a substantial amount of water to remove the heat. In short, the difference between a small fire and a big one. In addition, I want to replace the antifreeze in the water jacket with transmission fluid, or any free fluid that has a higher boiling point than water like transmission fluid, that must A) not boil, itself, other than at the head like the antifreeze does, now...and B) transfer higher than 300F heat to a secondary heat exchanger, another boiler heated by the coolant, not exhaust gasses, to boil even more seawater in a secondary self-flushing boiler. Both these steam outputs would go to one, or if necessary two, stainless steel condensors that look exactly like the pipe-in-a-pipe freon condensors on a marine air conditioner, which is very compact. This condensor would have a seawater jacket around the central stainless steel steam pipe it cools, dumping the heat of condensation into the hot water tank heat exchanger before dumping excess heat overboard. The condensor only need be pulled apart far enough so that gravity will drain the distilled water out of it at your worst angle of heel so it doesn't vapor lock...and be mounted above the engine far enough so only steam can reach it from the gas outlet of the various boilers below. Again, the theory is good but I'm not sure about how it works in practice. I say this because every design engineer understands that heat is energy and if it were practical internal combustion engines would be running at much higher temperatures then they do now. I suspect that higher temperature operation would be getting into the realm of exotic materials, difference in expansions of various engine parts, etc. I also suspect that lubrication would be a problem. Jet engine oil, for example operates at much higher temperatures then internal combustion engine oil but has far less lubricity (as a bunch of USAF folk learned to their despair when we converted the APU's from internal combustion power to turbine units). A power boat wasting millions of Btu/day would sink from fresh water flooding if this thing were left tanking it all. Being as the distilled water output from this contraption were HOT water, not cold as with RO, you might even be able to just tank it for that hot shower, directly. The water coming out of my steam condensor will burn you at 200F. To get a cold drink, you'd have to cool the engine distiller's water before drinking it....maybe with further seawater cooling, which is plentiful. There's so much great heat just going up the stacks and running out of the boat from the seawater indirect cooling systems on these monsters it's pitiful! Heat is POWER! All it needs is useful conversion. I've never figured out why a big power boat doesn't have a Stirling genset running off its waste exhaust heat, alone! God, it's certainly hot enough with enough Btus. The reason I ask is because many years ago I maintained a distillation plant that used exhaust heat to make steam. If I remember correctly the primary power was a Perkins 4-108 diesel and it didn't make enough exhaust heat to boil water at sea level atmospheric pressure. The distillation vessel was heated as hot as possible using the exhaust and then an engine driven vacuum pump dropped the pressure in the still to create steam at temperatures lower then 212F. It's not? That's most interesting. Maybe we should put the fluid coolant heat exchanger AFTER the exhaust heat exchanger and use the exhaust heat as a pre-heater if that's so. Anyone who forgot to open cooling water thruhull valve KNOWS how much heat and steam the water jacket can make! Hell, we're only using 30-35% of the energy in the fuel we're paying $3.50/gallon for, now. The rest of it goes overboard as waste heat. Pulling a vacuum on the boilers is also an excellent idea that's been used since the 1800s, or maybe even before to reduce the boiling point. I was trying to keep this as simple as possible and free running into current water tankage. I wonder why that system allowed all that water jacket heat that's so hard to get rid of to boil even more seawater? Whether this was done to increase thruput or because exhaust heat alone was not sufficient I do not recollect. In any event, given the cost of reverse osmosis systems using engine heat would seem rather attractive. And any RO uses more power which equals more fuel expense we can no longer afford. It's a shame to let so much heat just blow out the stacks and be poured overboard as hot seawater when there are so many uses for it....like distillation, heat engines driving gensets, etc. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I love things like this. When I was using my little 1KW Honda EU1000i genset to power the service van, I noted that its tiny exhaust was exiting separately from its air cooling exhaust. So, I welded a pipe nipple to the engine exhaust so I could pipe it where I wanted it. The exhaust gas and cooling air exhaust come out on the same end through some plastic louvers. The truck is cold in winter with only a small engine heater for the driver. The back was always cold to work in. So, I moved the tiny genset from its mount outside the rear door to inside the back of the "cabin" and used some flexible natural gas pipe, stainless steel with external ribs that would act as a radiator, made into a big loop behind a cabinet where there was a void open to the cabin air. The exhaust heated the tubing, the tubing heated the air, what came out was really HOT air wafting up from behind the cabinet. The cooled exhaust gasses went through a hole in the deck to be vented to atmosphere below the truck's floor. Exhaust gas is heavier than air, so it vents away from the cabin and this also drains the water vapor that condenses in my heat exchanger...it runs a full stream, suitable to fill my PortaPottie! The exhaust gas is about 75F coming out...a good exchange of heat. Because the genset is INSIDE the cabin, all of the waste heat coming out of its air cooled engine is POURING out onto the deck of the cabin. I'm recovering around 98% of all waste heat. When it's 30F outside the poorly-insulated truck box, I can make it 80F inside in an hour!.....and have up to 1KW of electrical power, 120VAC 60 Hz to power the shop. The noise was awful...so I built a foam cabinet out of 4" thick foam packing crate foam I got for free. The cabin air intake to cool the engine goes through a little foam muffler on the intake end. The exhaust gas heat exchanger and cooling air outlet goes through yet another foam muffler I built onto the other end...making it amazingly more quiet. Voila!...Gasoline heater and genset! You wouldn't want to live with it...but it sure is nice trying to work on a cold day in January where it's WARM as Toast!...(c; After all, old cars had exhaust gas heat exchangers heating the cars back in the early part of the 20th Century....not hot water heaters which came later. 1 gallon of gas provides electrical power and cabin heat for all day....(c; Larry Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
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On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 10:10:37 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote: In the meantime, his stovetop distillers are working well for him, and use heat in a time-tested and pretty efficient way, with almost direct application of flame to water. Yes, but can you also use it to make booze? If so you could turn your boat into a cash machine. |
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" wrote in
oups.com: What am I missing? I doubt a cruise ship could produce enough distilled water from waste heat to feed its hungry passengers. But, in a situation of a private boat with 2 to 5 passengers aboard, I'm convinced they'll produce far more distilled water than needed from the waste heat of the engines, in powerboats like trawlers, motor yachts, bubbleboats. Anything guzzling that kind of fuel is making a LOT of waste heat and simply dumping it overboard. Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
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wrote in news:o7f6e352nobhftlvbnrfrja65nvtgv8e5b@
4ax.com: if it were practical internal combustion engines would be running at much higher temperatures then they do now. I suspect that higher temperature operation would be getting into the realm of exotic materials, difference in expansions of various engine parts, etc. I also suspect that lubrication would be a problem. Remember the ceramic diesel invented that had no cooling system and no lube oil? http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4846051-claims.html Lubrication was by GAS, not liquid. It was too efficient, of course, so it had to be BURIED. Ever wonder why boats don't have air cycle refridgeration and air conditioning? http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4846051-claims.html -75F is plenty cool to cool off the cabin, right? 1967, Chrysler sedan in Mohave Desert with 6 engineers inside enjoying a ROVAC rotart compressor/expander air conditioning system running on AIR, not freon. Temp with 6 passengers in a Plymouth? 57F....cool plenty! Oops...too environmentally friendly. You can't charge $8 for 12oz of AIR at WalMart like R134a. Can it! Quick! Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
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Vic Smith wrote in
: Yeah, I knew that, but forgot. Probably thinking about how I would do it given natural gas is cheaper than electricity here. But even with that, your electric units might be more practical here too. --Vic Electricity is political where I live. In Charleston, a corporation, SCANA aka South Carolina Electric and Gas, supposedly controlled by the state charges over 9c/KWh at the house, over 10c/KWh if you use over 750 KWh. 75 miles up the road, the City of Orangeburg, SC, same state, couldn't get big corporations to wire the city way back when, so decided to do it themselves like the water system. http://www.orbgdpu.com/electric.htm Click on RATES after seeing what they offer their customers. They sell the SAME electricity, bought from the electrical grid as they have no power plants except some HUGE gas turbine emergency plants, for 2.4c/KWh for the first 500 KWh...then the rate DROPS (ours rises, dammit)...over that first 500 KWh, Orangeburg houses pay 1.9c/KWh....not 10.2c/KWh Charleston pays. No bogus "fuel cost adjustment charges", either. Here's our corporate thieves: http://www.sceg.com/en/ buried down a few layers is: http://www.sceg.com/NR/rdonlyres/523...0C0-4997-8608- 4AA8EA48A9BD/0/rate8.pdf the electric rates.....dammit. SCANA controls the state, not the other way around. I discovered this after my father died and I inherited his mobile home in a trailer park in Orangeburg. The city owned utility kept sending me bills for $35/month so I ran up to see what was wrong with the air conditioning system I was SURE I left running to prevent mildew inside. It was still running. $35 was "normal" for July in SC! The base charge was $6....no funny charges noone can explain, no city franchies fees or other bogus charges to raise the cost 35%....$6! And they say the government shouldn't be in the electric business.... Larry -- Everyone paying under 2c/KWh for electricity raise your hand! |
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Vic Smith wrote in
: My youngest daughter was walking at 7 months and amazing the neighborhood kids. She knew to say "mama" and "dada." Her third word was "What?!" Didn't mean anything, she just liked it. A 10-year old friend of my son's came over to the front fence to ask my wife if he could come out to play. He didn't even see the little one standing on the other side of the fence at his feet. Just as he was about to say something to my wife the little shouted up at him "What?!" He about had a heart attack, shouting at my wife, "She can talk! She can talk!" Thanks for the parrot stories. I'll remember them. "What?" reminds me of a fantastic Australian beer commercial someone sent me from Oz. This beautiful woman is headed into a gorgeous bathroom with s big sunken round tub as the spot opens. She sheds her robe as she enters and we get to watch her bare back entering the already filled pool, as she slides down until only her head is above water, dammit! Just as she settles in and closes her eyes, obviously enjoying it, this Aussie male runs bareassed into the room and does a FANTASTIC CANNON BALL into the sunken tub, drowning her and the entire room!...(c; He reaches around behind him to grab the product beer, unscrews the cap and takes a big swig that would send the American FCC into a frenzy of violation printing, looks over at her ANGRY RED FACE and says........."What??!" Oh, look! It's on YOUTUBE! http://youtube.com/watch?v=he4fBK3d8hk AND HAHN HAS A NEW ONE! http://youtube.com/watch?v=BHcL40ALO...elated&search= It's my favorite commercial. I hope they sell millions of gallons of beer from it. It would NEVER fly in the prudish USA. The preachers would go ballistic evangelizing....God, we can't even look at a tit at a football game to protect the kiddies who've been sucking on them the whole first part of their lives! I'm STILL nursing, given the chance! Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
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On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 02:19:17 +0000, Larry wrote:
wrote in news:o7f6e352nobhftlvbnrfrja65nvtgv8e5b@ 4ax.com: if it were practical internal combustion engines would be running at much higher temperatures then they do now. I suspect that higher temperature operation would be getting into the realm of exotic materials, difference in expansions of various engine parts, etc. I also suspect that lubrication would be a problem. Remember the ceramic diesel invented that had no cooling system and no lube oil? http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4846051-claims.html Lubrication was by GAS, not liquid. It was too efficient, of course, so it had to be BURIED. Ever wonder why boats don't have air cycle refridgeration and air conditioning? http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4846051-claims.html -75F is plenty cool to cool off the cabin, right? 1967, Chrysler sedan in Mohave Desert with 6 engineers inside enjoying a ROVAC rotart compressor/expander air conditioning system running on AIR, not freon. Temp with 6 passengers in a Plymouth? 57F....cool plenty! Oops...too environmentally friendly. You can't charge $8 for 12oz of AIR at WalMart like R134a. Can it! Quick! Larry Gas or air lubrication is hardly news. My Machinery's Handbook of 1950-something had tables of clearance for air lubed bearings. As I remember it the ceramic engine never got out of the laboratory stages but I do remember some pretty high efficiency numbers claimed for it. A charge of freon for the pickup is about $4.00 here :-) I Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
Thrift shop distiller $9
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:57:01 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 10:10:37 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: In the meantime, his stovetop distillers are working well for him, and use heat in a time-tested and pretty efficient way, with almost direct application of flame to water. Yes, but can you also use it to make booze? If so you could turn your boat into a cash machine. You'd have to fiddle with the thermostat as booze is distilled at considerable lower temperatures then distilled water. I've got a mate who makes his own booze and I *think* the top of the reflux still runs about 80 degrees C. I can get you specific numbers if you are that interested. Be aware that the Tax people get absolutely frantic and tend to take away your house, car, still, and money when they catch you doing this. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom) |
Thrift shop distiller $9
|
Thrift shop distiller $9
On Sep 8, 3:40 pm, Larry wrote:
" wrote groups.com: What am I missing? ... But, in a situation of a private boat with 2 to 5 passengers aboard, I'm convinced they'll produce far more distilled water than needed from the waste heat of the engines, in powerboats like trawlers, motor yachts, bubbleboats. ... I think I see. I suppose this is just a matter of perspective, but we often get 8-10 gallons of drinking water from the excess amps on the solar array in a sunny anchorage using R/O. That's a lot of water for two people who are used to conserving. It would be a good deal less thrilling to get 0.8 of a gallon even if it was of fantastic quality. But unlike your example boats we live on a very strict energy budget when we're cruising. Just playing devil's advocate, wouldn't it make more sense for the bubble boat crowd to use their waste heat to R/O a lot of water to shower, wash dishes, fill the jacuzzi and so on and then distill their drinking water from the R/Oed water in one of Sear's finest counter top contraptions plugged into the inverter? -- Tom. |
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" wrote in
ps.com: Just playing devil's advocate, wouldn't it make more sense for the bubble boat crowd to use their waste heat to R/O a lot of water to shower, wash dishes, fill the jacuzzi and so on and then distill their drinking water from the R/Oed water in one of Sear's finest counter top contraptions plugged into the inverter? RO is better and uses less power as you want to use it. My discussion involves a whole different way of distillation in POWER boats with ENGINES running....not hermits living on the hook. Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
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On Sep 10, 1:02 pm, Larry wrote:
... My discussion involves a whole different way of distillation in POWER boats with ENGINES running....not hermits living on the hook. ... I take it from the nasty ad hominem zinger that I'm being a pain. Sorry about that. Just for the record, there are many very desirable cruising destinations that have plenty of people but not much fresh water. In those spots an efficient water maker is a wonderful tool for sociable cruisers. Also for the record, I'm not trying to be a pain. But, at the risk of seeming negative, since you completely ignored my question I'll ask it one more time: what is the motivation to use steam distillation even in "POWER boats with ENGINES running" when the same amount of heat differential would give you vastly more fresh water if you used it to run R/O filtration? -- Tom. |
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On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:56:08 -0000, "
wrote: On Sep 10, 1:02 pm, Larry wrote: ... My discussion involves a whole different way of distillation in POWER boats with ENGINES running....not hermits living on the hook. ... I take it from the nasty ad hominem zinger that I'm being a pain. Sorry about that. Just for the record, there are many very desirable cruising destinations that have plenty of people but not much fresh water. In those spots an efficient water maker is a wonderful tool for sociable cruisers. Also for the record, I'm not trying to be a pain. But, at the risk of seeming negative, since you completely ignored my question I'll ask it one more time: what is the motivation to use steam distillation even in "POWER boats with ENGINES running" when the same amount of heat differential would give you vastly more fresh water if you used it to run R/O filtration? My understanding is that Larry simply prefers distilled water, and has given reasons why. Mineral content, and possible bacterial contamination of RO water. Though I am not well versed in this, and have not tested the waters. distilled and RO are different, aren't they? He never said distilling was more energy efficient than RO, but was looking to capture engine waste heat to make distilling more efficient than it is using conventional methods. And if it could be done, it would be of benefit to sailboats too, since they are often under power, and their engines waste many, BTUs. Capturing wasted BTUs is the most important issue. --Vic |
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On 2007-09-07 14:36:05 -0400, Vic Smith said:
What's the cost of some common bottled water? Never drink it, but maybe some brands are low in minerals. Most bottled waters are lightly filtered "city" or well water. Perrier used to (may still) bottle Chester County, PA well water. Took so much out that my friends had to dig a deeper well. You can probably get better water for FAR less by putting a simple filter on your house supply. We have a filter and dedicated "drinking water" tap at the kitchen sink. Most minerals won't be filtered out, but some of the "gunk" Larry's talking about will be. I also have kidney stone problems, but the filter is sufficient for me as our water's fairly "soft" to begin with. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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On 2007-09-08 21:40:35 -0400, Larry said:
in powerboats like trawlers, motor yachts, bubbleboats. Anything guzzling that kind of fuel is making a LOT of waste heat and simply dumping it overboard. You might be surprised. Friend had a 42' trawler that used about 1 gph to go 8-10 knots. New boat is 55', but still only uses about 3 gph for slightly higher speeds. There's not that much waste heat to use. -- Jere Lull Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
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...My understanding is that Larry simply prefers distilled water, ...
Oh, if that's all then I think it is a great idea. I thought his argument was that distilling using engine heat was more efficient and was responding to his post of Sept 8 where he said: "And any RO uses more power which equals more fuel expense we can no longer afford. It's a shame to let so much heat just blow out the stacks and be poured overboard as hot seawater when there are so many uses for it....like distillation, heat engines driving gensets, etc. " This confused me because RO uses much LESS energy than steam distillation. So, basically the question I've been asking all along is: If the heat is available to do work then why not use it to make RO water which will give you a lot more water for your work than steam? I gather from you that the answer is "because I want steam distilled water and I don't get any of that from RO." I'm good with that. It was the "more power" thing that threw me. ... Though I am not well versed in this, and have not tested the waters. distilled and RO are different, aren't they? Yes, Larry is right, there may be qualitative differences between typical RO water and steam distilled water. His preferences in this seem defensible to me as long as we're talking about drinking water and not washing or cooking water. RO desalinated water is probably better than the water that comes out of your taps at home if you don't filter it. It is good enough for drinking -- I'm a lot happier drinking it than the water that gets used in most of the developing world -- but for some things steam distilled could be better yet. Steam distilled water is a luxury version of drinking water. He never said distilling was more energy efficient than RO, but was looking to capture engine waste heat to make distilling more efficient than it is using conventional methods. I thought he did say distilling was more energy efficient which is why I was confused. And if it could be done, it would be of benefit to sailboats too, since they are often under power, and their engines waste many, BTUs. ... I think Larry said he didn't think it would be practical for sailboats (he used all those big letters), but it would be neat if it was workable and affordable. I'm hoping he will do the hard work for us by rigging up a prototype on his diesel truck and then share the results with us. It would be lovely if it worked! Capturing wasted BTUs is the most important issue. Now you've confused me -- bless my heart I am dumber than a box of rocks. I was good with "I steam distill water because I want steam distilled water", but if capturing the BTUs is the most important issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam distilling? -- Tom. |
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On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:39:21 -0700, "
wrote: Capturing wasted BTUs is the most important issue. Now you've confused me -- bless my heart I am dumber than a box of rocks. I was good with "I steam distill water because I want steam distilled water", but if capturing the BTUs is the most important issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam distilling? Well, it's pretty well established - I think - that Larry doesn't want RO water. He wants distilled water. You have said, "Steam distilled water is a luxury version of drinking water." IMO, Larry is not one bit averse to luxury. At the same time, and perhaps in other threads, Larry has talked about engine waste heat recovery as a separate issue. And it is. How the waste heat is used is a different matter entirely, though Larry happened to be talking about distilling when it came up, or maybe he was thinking about waste heat and distilling all at once. Hell if I know. But theoretically you may use the waste heat to generate electricity to run RO, the TV, an A/C unit, etc, or to heat hot water for the shower, or to distill. The only one I see happening is heating the hot water tank, which is closer to a distilling system than to a system that generates electricity. Hey, too bad they don't make thermal blankets/material that could enclose an engine compartment and generate electricity from the heat. I'm not up in physics, and don't know how solar cells work, whether they use UV or IR, but they work. I offer my apologies to Larry for butting in and making assumptions, but figured he could use some time with his parrots anyway. --Vic |
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" wrote in
ups.com: But, at the risk of seeming negative, since you completely ignored my question I'll ask it one more time: what is the motivation to use steam distillation even in "POWER boats with ENGINES running" when the same amount of heat differential would give you vastly more fresh water if you used it to run R/O filtration? And, I'll answer it for you. Distillation requires little maintenance and ALWAYS makes PURE water with the simplest carbon filtration. RO ONLY makes "good water" when it's new and meticulously maintained, degrading from that first moment you flip the switch until the bugs start leaking through it making everyone sick. Distillation requires me to decalcify the boiler once a year. I change the carbon filter every few months of continuous use. RO is FAR from perfect....especially a unit sold to some CONSUMER made of the usual cheap crap. The cheapest consumer distiller makes the same distilled water my commercial distillery makes....even if it's 10 years old. How'd I do? Are your glasses less rosey on RO? Larry -- RO - One pinhole and everyone dies..... |
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" wrote in
oups.com: but if capturing the BTUs is the most important issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam distilling? Because boiling seawater into steam from the waste heat off an engine is about as simple a thing to do as you can get. To make an RO run off waste heat, you have to convert it to PRESSURE, probably to electricity to run the RO's pump and computer, right? I want to simply boil seawater into steam in heat exchangers running off hot exhaust gasses and engine coolant....making distilled water for NOTHING in fuel and very little in maintenance. Larry -- Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium" The ultimate dirty bomb...... |
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Jere Lull wrote in news:2007091021343611272-
jerelull@maccom: We have a filter and dedicated "drinking water" tap at the kitchen sink. What bothers me about "filters" is the same thing that bothers me about RO. Whatever is filtered from the water backs up on whatever filter media is used, whether it's a paper and carbon filter...or an expensive RO membrane. In an undersink filter, with no backflush capability, there it sets...for months...or YEARS....breaking down under the water pressure and flow into SMALLER, less filterable, more toxic things. Once it has broken down far enough, it passes THROUGH the filter into the drinking supply...bacterial toxins that cause Legionaires' Disease is a good example. Viruses are so small they aren't filtered in the first place! The filters aren't molecular level. There are NO viruses in distilled water....NOT EVEN DEAD ONES. Distilled water is safe even if the CIA pours Anthrax into the water to reduce Social Security costs or for false flag operations to keep us under control, a real possibility lately. Am I better off filtering or drinking the water straight? Noone I can find in the filter business wants to talk about what happens on the pressure side of the filter element "as-time-goes-by". I can't even get a straight answer from the SC Dept of Health and Environmental Control on this subject. This may be because every coffee pot in every restaurant has this little metal filter in its water supply line that is NEVER changed unless the whole machine changes. I'm sure glad it's boiled before I drink it! The iced tea is NOT! Most of it is just water poured in as the tea brews...filtered, of course. Larry -- |
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Larry wrote: Jere Lull wrote in news:2007091021343611272- jerelull@maccom: We have a filter and dedicated "drinking water" tap at the kitchen sink. What bothers me about "filters" is the same thing that bothers me about RO. Whatever is filtered from the water backs up on whatever filter media is used, whether it's a paper and carbon filter...or an expensive RO membrane. In an undersink filter, with no backflush capability, there it sets...for months...or YEARS....breaking down under the water pressure and flow into SMALLER, less filterable, more toxic things. Once it has broken down far enough, it passes THROUGH the filter into the drinking supply...bacterial toxins that cause Legionaires' Disease is a good example. Uhmmm, no that's not an example at all, let alone a good one. Legionnair's disease is not caused by broken down anything, or by bacterial *toxins*, it's caused by an infection with the bacterium Legionella pneumophila. Viruses are so small they aren't filtered in the first place! The filters aren't molecular level. There are NO viruses in distilled water....NOT EVEN DEAD ONES. Distilled water is safe even if the CIA pours Anthrax into the water to reduce Social Security costs or for false flag operations to keep us under control, a real possibility lately. Depends on whether your still is really effective or not. If you're only condensing *steam*, i.e. not water vapor but gaseous steam, you may be correct. However, unless your still is a multi-effect (doubtful) or uses some form of cyclonic separation (doubtful), and uses some form of demisting (also doubtful), you don't have quite the assurance you think you do. Almost certainly any organisms will be inactivated, but you may still have endotoxin carryover. Am I better off filtering or drinking the water straight? Noone I can find in the filter business wants to talk about what happens on the pressure side of the filter element "as-time-goes-by". Then you're not talking to knowledgeable people. Just Google Minncare and you'll find what most everyone uses for biofilm control. As time goes by, a biofilm will build up without proper maintenance. I can't even get a straight answer from the SC Dept of Health and Environmental Control on this subject. This may be because every coffee pot in every restaurant has this little metal filter in its water supply line that is NEVER changed unless the whole machine changes. I'm sure glad it's boiled before I drink it! The iced tea is NOT! Most of it is just water poured in as the tea brews...filtered, of course. Well Larry, rail as you will about RO, but you can make Water for Injection with double pass RO. That's injection, in your veins, and you worry about drinking it? Granted, there's a further *sterilization* step, but that has nothing to do with all the "toxins" you seem obsessed with. Keith Hughes |
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On Sep 10, 6:23 pm, Larry wrote:
" wrote groups.com: but if capturing the BTUs is the most important issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam distilling? Because boiling seawater into steam from the waste heat off an engine is about as simple a thing to do as you can get. To make an RO run off waste heat, you have to convert it to PRESSURE, probably to electricity to run the RO's pump and computer, right? I want to simply boil seawater into steam in heat exchangers running off hot exhaust gasses and engine coolant....making distilled water for NOTHING in fuel and very little in maintenance. ... Simple is good. I wish you well with it. Just so you know, RO doesn't need electricity any more than steam does. You just need to push water through a membrane. My Spectra system has only one electrical component and that's an off the shelf pressure water pump. It has no electronics. -- Tom. |
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