" wrote in
ps.com:

Just playing devil's advocate, wouldn't it make more sense for the
bubble boat crowd to use their waste heat to R/O a lot of water to
shower, wash dishes, fill the jacuzzi and so on and then distill their
drinking water from the R/Oed water in one of Sear's finest counter
top contraptions plugged into the inverter?


RO is better and uses less power as you want to use it. My discussion
involves a whole different way of distillation in POWER boats with ENGINES
running....not hermits living on the hook.


Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

On Sep 10, 1:02 pm, Larry wrote:
... My discussion
involves a whole different way of distillation in POWER boats with ENGINES
running....not hermits living on the hook. ...

I take it from the nasty ad hominem zinger that I'm being a pain.
Sorry about that. Just for the record, there are many very desirable
cruising destinations that have plenty of people but not much fresh
water. In those spots an efficient water maker is a wonderful tool
for sociable cruisers. Also for the record, I'm not trying to be a
pain. But, at the risk of seeming negative, since you completely
ignored my question I'll ask it one more time: what is the motivation
to use steam distillation even in "POWER boats with ENGINES running"
when the same amount of heat differential would give you vastly more
fresh water if you used it to run R/O filtration?

-- Tom.

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:56:08 -0000, "
wrote:

On Sep 10, 1:02 pm, Larry wrote:
... My discussion
involves a whole different way of distillation in POWER boats with ENGINES
running....not hermits living on the hook. ...

I take it from the nasty ad hominem zinger that I'm being a pain.
Sorry about that. Just for the record, there are many very desirable
cruising destinations that have plenty of people but not much fresh
water. In those spots an efficient water maker is a wonderful tool
for sociable cruisers. Also for the record, I'm not trying to be a
pain. But, at the risk of seeming negative, since you completely
ignored my question I'll ask it one more time: what is the motivation
to use steam distillation even in "POWER boats with ENGINES running"
when the same amount of heat differential would give you vastly more
fresh water if you used it to run R/O filtration?

My understanding is that Larry simply prefers distilled water, and has
given reasons why. Mineral content, and possible bacterial
contamination of RO water.
Though I am not well versed in this, and have not tested the waters.
distilled and RO are different, aren't they?
He never said distilling was more energy efficient than RO, but was
looking to capture engine waste heat to make distilling more efficient
than it is using conventional methods.
And if it could be done, it would be of benefit to sailboats too,
since they are often under power, and their engines waste many,
BTUs. Capturing wasted BTUs is the most important issue.

--Vic

...My understanding is that Larry simply prefers distilled water, ...

Oh, if that's all then I think it is a great idea. I thought his
argument was that distilling using engine heat was more efficient and
was responding to his post of Sept 8 where he said:

"And any RO uses more power which equals more fuel expense we can no
longer afford. It's a shame to let so much heat just blow out the
stacks
and be poured overboard as hot seawater when there are so many uses
for
it....like distillation, heat engines driving gensets, etc. "

This confused me because RO uses much LESS energy than steam
distillation. So, basically the question I've been asking all along
is: If the heat is available to do work then why not use it to make
RO water which will give you a lot more water for your work than
steam? I gather from you that the answer is "because I want steam
distilled water and I don't get any of that from RO." I'm good with
that. It was the "more power" thing that threw me.

... Though I am not well versed in this, and have not tested the waters.
distilled and RO are different, aren't they?

Yes, Larry is right, there may be qualitative differences between
typical RO water and steam distilled water. His preferences in this
seem defensible to me as long as we're talking about drinking water
and not washing or cooking water. RO desalinated water is probably
better than the water that comes out of your taps at home if you don't
filter it. It is good enough for drinking -- I'm a lot happier
drinking it than the water that gets used in most of the developing
world -- but for some things steam distilled could be better yet.
Steam distilled water is a luxury version of drinking water.

He never said distilling was more energy efficient than RO, but was
looking to capture engine waste heat to make distilling more efficient
than it is using conventional methods.

I thought he did say distilling was more energy efficient which is why
I was confused.

And if it could be done, it would be of benefit to sailboats too,
since they are often under power, and their engines waste many,
BTUs. ...

I think Larry said he didn't think it would be practical for sailboats
(he used all those big letters), but it would be neat if it was
workable and affordable. I'm hoping he will do the hard work for us
by rigging up a prototype on his diesel truck and then share the
results with us. It would be lovely if it worked!

Capturing wasted BTUs is the most important issue.

Now you've confused me -- bless my heart I am dumber than a box of
rocks. I was good with "I steam distill water because I want steam
distilled water", but if capturing the BTUs is the most important
issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam
distilling?

-- Tom.

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:39:21 -0700, "
wrote:


Capturing wasted BTUs is the most important issue.

Now you've confused me -- bless my heart I am dumber than a box of
rocks. I was good with "I steam distill water because I want steam
distilled water", but if capturing the BTUs is the most important
issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam
distilling?

Well, it's pretty well established - I think - that Larry doesn't want
RO water. He wants distilled water. You have said, "Steam distilled
water is a luxury version of drinking water."
IMO, Larry is not one bit averse to luxury.
At the same time, and perhaps in other threads, Larry has talked
about engine waste heat recovery as a separate issue.
And it is.
How the waste heat is used is a different matter entirely, though
Larry happened to be talking about distilling when it came up, or
maybe he was thinking about waste heat and distilling all at once.
Hell if I know.
But theoretically you may use the waste heat to generate electricity
to run RO, the TV, an A/C unit, etc, or to heat hot water for the
shower, or to distill.
The only one I see happening is heating the hot water tank, which
is closer to a distilling system than to a system that generates
electricity.
Hey, too bad they don't make thermal blankets/material that could
enclose an engine compartment and generate electricity from the heat.
I'm not up in physics, and don't know how solar cells work, whether
they use UV or IR, but they work.
I offer my apologies to Larry for butting in and making assumptions,
but figured he could use some time with his parrots anyway.

--Vic

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:16:55 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:39:21 -0700, "
wrote:


Capturing wasted BTUs is the most important issue.

Now you've confused me -- bless my heart I am dumber than a box of
rocks. I was good with "I steam distill water because I want steam
distilled water", but if capturing the BTUs is the most important
issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam
distilling?

Well, it's pretty well established - I think - that Larry doesn't want
RO water. He wants distilled water. You have said, "Steam distilled
water is a luxury version of drinking water."
IMO, Larry is not one bit averse to luxury.
At the same time, and perhaps in other threads, Larry has talked
about engine waste heat recovery as a separate issue.
And it is.
How the waste heat is used is a different matter entirely, though
Larry happened to be talking about distilling when it came up, or
maybe he was thinking about waste heat and distilling all at once.
Hell if I know.
But theoretically you may use the waste heat to generate electricity

The only really efficient way to convert fuel to shaft work is with a
diesel engine, and the small ones are nearly as good as very large
ones. Steam has to be huge to be efficient. I mean a cube 100 feet on
a side for the boiler. You could use the heat in the engine coolant to
boil propane, if you had cold water, 40F, say, that is. All engines
work on temperature differences. Heat moves from hot to cold, and you
can siphon off some of the energy as shaft work, if you are clever
enough.

to run RO, the TV, an A/C unit, etc, or to heat hot water for the
shower, or to distill.
The only one I see happening is heating the hot water tank,

This is on the market. Most engines are actually cooled by glycol,
which is, in turn, cooled by water. Fresh water or sea water, the
glycol, and the engine, don't care. You simply run hot engine coolant
into a coil in an insulated tank of water.

which
is closer to a distilling system than to a system that generates
electricity.

Exactly.

Hey, too bad they don't make thermal blankets/material that could
enclose an engine compartment and generate electricity from the heat.
I'm not up in physics, and don't know how solar cells work, whether
they use UV or IR, but they work.

You cannot get a solar cell to work on heat.

Engine heated fresh water stills were killed by RO.

Casady

" wrote in
oups.com:

but if capturing the BTUs is the most important
issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam
distilling?


Because boiling seawater into steam from the waste heat off an engine is
about as simple a thing to do as you can get. To make an RO run off waste
heat, you have to convert it to PRESSURE, probably to electricity to run
the RO's pump and computer, right? I want to simply boil seawater into
steam in heat exchangers running off hot exhaust gasses and engine
coolant....making distilled water for NOTHING in fuel and very little in
maintenance.

Larry
--
Search youtube for "Depleted Uranium"
The ultimate dirty bomb......

On Sep 10, 6:23 pm, Larry wrote:
" wrote groups.com:

but if capturing the BTUs is the most important
issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam
distilling?

Because boiling seawater into steam from the waste heat off an engine is
about as simple a thing to do as you can get. To make an RO run off waste
heat, you have to convert it to PRESSURE, probably to electricity to run
the RO's pump and computer, right? I want to simply boil seawater into
steam in heat exchangers running off hot exhaust gasses and engine
coolant....making distilled water for NOTHING in fuel and very little in
maintenance. ...


Simple is good. I wish you well with it.

Just so you know, RO doesn't need electricity any more than steam
does. You just need to push water through a membrane. My Spectra
system has only one electrical component and that's an off the shelf
pressure water pump. It has no electronics.

-- Tom.

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:47:13 -0700, "
wrote:

On Sep 10, 6:23 pm, Larry wrote:
" wrote groups.com:

but if capturing the BTUs is the most important
issue then why use an inefficient desalination system like steam
distilling?

Because boiling seawater into steam from the waste heat off an engine is
about as simple a thing to do as you can get. To make an RO run off waste
heat, you have to convert it to PRESSURE, probably to electricity to run
the RO's pump and computer, right? I want to simply boil seawater into
steam in heat exchangers running off hot exhaust gasses and engine
coolant....making distilled water for NOTHING in fuel and very little in
maintenance. ...


Simple is good. I wish you well with it.

Just so you know, RO doesn't need electricity any more than steam
does. You just need to push water through a membrane. My Spectra
system has only one electrical component and that's an off the shelf
pressure water pump. It has no electronics.

The lifeboat model has a hand pump. It is a filter and that is all it
is.

They used to sell stills that use engine heat, but I guess RO killed
them off.

Casady

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:14:21 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Sep 2007 23:56:08 -0000, "
wrote:

On Sep 10, 1:02 pm, Larry wrote:
... My discussion
involves a whole different way of distillation in POWER boats with ENGINES
running....not hermits living on the hook. ...

I take it from the nasty ad hominem zinger that I'm being a pain.
Sorry about that. Just for the record, there are many very desirable
cruising destinations that have plenty of people but not much fresh
water. In those spots an efficient water maker is a wonderful tool
for sociable cruisers. Also for the record, I'm not trying to be a
pain. But, at the risk of seeming negative, since you completely
ignored my question I'll ask it one more time: what is the motivation
to use steam distillation even in "POWER boats with ENGINES running"
when the same amount of heat differential would give you vastly more
fresh water if you used it to run R/O filtration?

My understanding is that Larry simply prefers distilled water, and has
given reasons why. Mineral content, and possible bacterial
contamination of RO water.
Though I am not well versed in this, and have not tested the waters.
distilled and RO are different, aren't they?
He never said distilling was more energy efficient than RO, but was
looking to capture engine waste heat to make distilling more efficient
than it is using conventional methods.
And if it could be done, it would be of benefit to sailboats too,
since they are often under power, and their engines waste many,
BTUs. Capturing wasted BTUs is the most important issue

Engine heat powered stills, in sizes suitable for yachts, were on the
market decades ago. RO killed the market for them.

Casady