Well, wadda you know?
 

There's a world of difference between a gas engine and a diesel.

I have no doubt that larger diesels can be hand started but, as you said,
set up has a lot to do with it. Working in the confines of the typical
small boat cabin without being able to use your body effeciently and the
crank at an angle is going to make a big difference.

The real world, reported experience, here and other places, is that with the
typical sailboat set up, 12 -15 is a bear and 20 can be done but not
reliably. I talked to a fellow yesterday who got his 3 cylinder going once
but was never able to duplicate the feat.

I'm sure there are exceptions. With the boat and installation designed from
the beginning to make hand starting a priority, starting a larger engine
would be possible. Problem is, it is generally an afterthought if it is
given any thought at all.

--
Roger Long

Well, wadda you know?
 

Wilbur Hubbard wrote:

Women are the primary reason why so many sailboats today are such poor
excuses as boats ...

I will be sure to ask Florence Arthaud about this the next time we do lunch.

--
Good luck and good sailing.
s/v Kerry Deare of Barnegat
http://home.comcast.net/~kerrydeare

Well, wadda you know?
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:59:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:

Women are the primary reason why so many sailboats today are such poor
excuses as boats. The little woman does not have any idea about what
things should take priority. About the difference between a good boat
and a poor boat. To women a big apartment-size galley is a must have.
And a big bathroom with hot shower and vanity and lots of lights for
putting on make-up. Also a very large dinette is a must so she can cook
and entertain. And a refrigerator/freezer (stand up, of course).

Wilbur Hubbard

Willie, you know so little about boats that it is very difficult to
discuss them with you.

He knows even less about women, though how that could even be possible
eludes me.

Well, wadda you know?
 

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:59:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


wrote in message
. ..

As an aside, the first Farr 40 my wife saw didn't impress her one
little bit. No back on the cockpit and a stupid little one burner
stove?

Women are the primary reason why so many sailboats today are such poor
excuses as boats. The little woman does not have any idea about what
things should take priority. About the difference between a good boat
and a poor boat. To women a big apartment-size galley is a must have.
And a big bathroom with hot shower and vanity and lots of lights for
putting on make-up. Also a very large dinette is a must so she can
cook
and entertain. And a refrigerator/freezer (stand up, of course).

Never mind the boat won't sail. Never mind the cockpit's impossible
large. Never mind the tankage puts the boat well below her lines.
Never
mind you can't get to the motor because kitchen cabinets are built all
around it. Never mind you have to ship two thousand pounds of
batteries
and inverters to run her blow dryer, clothes dryer, and microwave.
Never
mind all those large dangerous windows she's just got to have so it
looks like a house from inside. Nope, just built a boat like a
floating
apartment and the women will say. "That's the one I want." You know
what's really more disgraceful than this? It's the man who knows he's
buying a piece of crap but does it anyway just to please the little
woman.

Wilbur Hubbard

Willie, you know so little about boats that it is very difficult to
discuss them with you.

I mentioned in my post that this was a Farr 40, which is one of the
most successful boats that have ever been designed,

It is an all out racing boat.

It has an open cockpit, nearly a third of the length of the boat to
give the helmsman and rope handlers plenty of room.

It has a small galley because these people are racing, not eating
gourmet meals and extra equipment makes the boat weigh more.

There are large areas of the deck where carbon fiber is used and they
don't paint these areas -- to save weight.

The running back stays have the cover stripped off the kevlar core
from just above the height that a crew member can reach up to the mast
because the cover has weight that isn't needed and as one of the crew
said, "that cover missing up there is equal to one more man sitting on
the rail.

Their battery bank is just large enough to keep the nav lights and
instruments going for the length of the race.

The tanks are as small as possible and in the better crewed boats the
length of the race X an adequate amount of water per man per day is
all that is carried.

The better crews also weigh each man's gear before they bring it
aboard and if you are over weight you take out enough to get the load
down to the limit - say, 5 pounds - or they don't load your bag.

But then, as Malcolm Forbes said, "The dumbest people I know are those
who know it all."



You must have some rather odd fetishes as you seem to like to put your
foot in your mouth so much.


It would be helpful if you took a little time to learn how to read. Then
you need to take some more time to ruminate upon what you've read.
Perhaps if you take my advice you will not jump to erroneous conclusions
that make you appear a little daft with such startling regularity.

I did not cast aspersions upon the Farr. I think it's a fine boat
because it puts the priorities right. First, it's a sailboat. That's how
things should go down.

The comment in another post was that some dippy woman hated it because
it only had a one-burner stove. This brought to mind how good boats like
the Farr would not sell to any couple because the woman would not have
it because of the lack of "amenities" and the wimpy man, rather than put
his foot down and say, "I don't care what YOU want, woman! I'm getting
the Farr because first it's a sailboat. If you want a floating condo
then forget it. Just stay home and enjoy your amenities. They don't
belong in a boat because a boat that has them all can hardly get out of
its own way! Now, shut your pie hole before I slap it shut!!!"

Do you get it now? Or are you one of those pussy-whipped men who are
afraid of your own wife?

Wilbur Hubbard

Well, wadda you know?
 

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:59:37 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

The real world, reported experience, here and other places, is that with the
typical sailboat set up, 12 -15 is a bear and 20 can be done but not
reliably. I talked to a fellow yesterday who got his 3 cylinder going once
but was never able to duplicate the feat.

When hand starting a diesel a wee shot of starting ether can make all
the difference, emergencies only of course. If you can get enough
flywheel momentum to take you through one or two compression strokes,
that is usually enough.

Well, wadda you know?
 

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 03:46:19 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

we've found that our little 12v solar
cell will bring the "better" battery up enough to start the engine in a
few hours' sun, faster if the decompression levers are thrown for the
spin-up.

That's a good point about using the decompression lever for a weak
battery start.

Well, wadda you know?
 

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:59:37 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I'm sure there are exceptions. With the boat and installation designed from
the beginning to make hand starting a priority, starting a larger engine
would be possible. Problem is, it is generally an afterthought if it is
given any thought at all.

Here's a possible invention that I'll give away in a public forum:

How about a geared adapter to let you spin the flywheel with a
cordless electric drill? Some of the better 14 and 18 volt drills
have amazing power in a small package. A lot of people carry one on
the boat already.

Personally I still prefer carrying a small to mid-sized spare battery,
preferably a gel cell for long charge retention.

Well, wadda you know?
 

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:50:34 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:59:17 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


wrote in message
...

As an aside, the first Farr 40 my wife saw didn't impress her one
little bit. No back on the cockpit and a stupid little one burner
stove?

Women are the primary reason why so many sailboats today are such poor
excuses as boats. The little woman does not have any idea about what
things should take priority. About the difference between a good boat
and a poor boat. To women a big apartment-size galley is a must have.
And a big bathroom with hot shower and vanity and lots of lights for
putting on make-up. Also a very large dinette is a must so she can
cook
and entertain. And a refrigerator/freezer (stand up, of course).

Never mind the boat won't sail. Never mind the cockpit's impossible
large. Never mind the tankage puts the boat well below her lines.
Never
mind you can't get to the motor because kitchen cabinets are built all
around it. Never mind you have to ship two thousand pounds of
batteries
and inverters to run her blow dryer, clothes dryer, and microwave.
Never
mind all those large dangerous windows she's just got to have so it
looks like a house from inside. Nope, just built a boat like a
floating
apartment and the women will say. "That's the one I want." You know
what's really more disgraceful than this? It's the man who knows he's
buying a piece of crap but does it anyway just to please the little
woman.

Wilbur Hubbard

Willie, you know so little about boats that it is very difficult to
discuss them with you.

I mentioned in my post that this was a Farr 40, which is one of the
most successful boats that have ever been designed,

It is an all out racing boat.

It has an open cockpit, nearly a third of the length of the boat to
give the helmsman and rope handlers plenty of room.

It has a small galley because these people are racing, not eating
gourmet meals and extra equipment makes the boat weigh more.

There are large areas of the deck where carbon fiber is used and they
don't paint these areas -- to save weight.

The running back stays have the cover stripped off the kevlar core
from just above the height that a crew member can reach up to the mast
because the cover has weight that isn't needed and as one of the crew
said, "that cover missing up there is equal to one more man sitting on
the rail.

Their battery bank is just large enough to keep the nav lights and
instruments going for the length of the race.

The tanks are as small as possible and in the better crewed boats the
length of the race X an adequate amount of water per man per day is
all that is carried.

The better crews also weigh each man's gear before they bring it
aboard and if you are over weight you take out enough to get the load
down to the limit - say, 5 pounds - or they don't load your bag.

But then, as Malcolm Forbes said, "The dumbest people I know are those
who know it all."



You must have some rather odd fetishes as you seem to like to put your
foot in your mouth so much.


It would be helpful if you took a little time to learn how to read. Then
you need to take some more time to ruminate upon what you've read.
Perhaps if you take my advice you will not jump to erroneous conclusions
that make you appear a little daft with such startling regularity.

I did not cast aspersions upon the Farr. I think it's a fine boat
because it puts the priorities right. First, it's a sailboat. That's how
things should go down.

The comment in another post was that some dippy woman hated it because
it only had a one-burner stove. This brought to mind how good boats like
the Farr would not sell to any couple because the woman would not have
it because of the lack of "amenities" and the wimpy man, rather than put
his foot down and say, "I don't care what YOU want, woman! I'm getting
the Farr because first it's a sailboat. If you want a floating condo
then forget it. Just stay home and enjoy your amenities. They don't
belong in a boat because a boat that has them all can hardly get out of
its own way! Now, shut your pie hole before I slap it shut!!!"

Do you get it now? Or are you one of those pussy-whipped men who are
afraid of your own wife?

Wilbur Hubbard


Willie boy, talking with you is about like stomping on cockroaches.
You are zigzagging this way, you're zigzagging that way.

If you take the time to read the message you will see that I said was
"As an aside, the first Farr 40 my wife saw didn't impress her one
little bit. No back on the cockpit and a stupid little one burner
stove?"

You immediately went into your tirade about women - and how they
effected sail boat design. From your remarks you didn't appear to know
what a Farr 40 is as you preceded to describe a boat that is almost
exactly the opposite to a Farr design.

Which differences I then took the trouble to explain to you so you
wouldn't make such a ass of yourself again by mistaking a Farr racing
boat for a family cruiser.

And how do you repay my kindness in trying to make you look just a
little bit less like a fool?

No Thank you". Just another anti female tirade.

Willie boy, with all your anti-female ranting and raving I'm having a
little bit of trouble in getting a handle on your preferences ......



Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

Well, wadda you know?
 

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:45:42 +0700, wrote:

Willie boy, with all your anti-female ranting and raving I'm having a
little bit of trouble in getting a handle on your preferences ......

Me too. Although I might be called a "sensitive" type with women,
treating them with love and respect, were I a brute I would still want
a woman with me. I am, after all, a man.

--Vic

Well, wadda you know?
 

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 22:52:58 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:45:42 +0700, wrote:

Willie boy, with all your anti-female ranting and raving I'm having a
little bit of trouble in getting a handle on your preferences ......

Me too. Although I might be called a "sensitive" type with women,
treating them with love and respect, were I a brute I would still want
a woman with me. I am, after all, a man.

--Vic


Yes, and as somebody or another said, "you can catch more flies with
honey then with vinegar".

Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)