On Aug 15, 8:01 am, wrote:


Two things you do need are an accurate depth sounder and GPS.

Whats wrong with a lead line and ...sextant.?

good advice snipped

Joe



Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

....
Whats wrong with a lead line and ...sextant.?
....

I was half way to Honolulu from Christmas on a delivery in the 80's
and when we decided to try out the GPS we had borrowed for the
delivery. I haven't used my sextant since. On a good day when
everything goes just right a sextant, chronometer and tables can be
used to tell you about where you were an hour ago... From time to
time there are big gaps between the good days and the navigator
typically will rely on a compass, chrono and log to get DRs and EPs at
those times... A lead line is nice, but it requires a full time
operator and a slow boat... But, you don't really NEED even those.
There are several voyaging societies around the Pacific that send
their canoes off on long passages without any instruments and there
are intermediate steps you could take like kamals and cross staffs.
So, cast off you goretex, wrap yourself in tree bark and set out in an
open boat for a distant shore and I will read you memoirs in awe.
Meanwhile I will quest for just the right mid layer to keep me
pleasantly warm and dry while I monitor my progress on my gps and I
will be content if my logs make for placid reading...

-- Tom.

On Aug 15, 12:07 pm, " wrote:
... Whats wrong with a lead line and ...sextant.?

...

I was half way to Honolulu from Christmas on a delivery in the 80's
and when we decided to try out the GPS we had borrowed for the
delivery.

Are you sure you were not using a Loran-C...... not a GPS?


I haven't used my sextant since.

That's a shame... They work when everything else fails.

Dont' get me wrong..I like GPS's.. and carry two, and prefer forward
looking sonar to 3 ounces of lead and a dab of wax.

Joe


On a good day when
everything goes just right a sextant, chronometer and tables can be
used to tell you about where you were an hour ago... From time to
time there are big gaps between the good days and the navigator
typically will rely on a compass, chrono and log to get DRs and EPs at
those times... A lead line is nice, but it requires a full time
operator and a slow boat... But, you don't really NEED even those.
There are several voyaging societies around the Pacific that send
their canoes off on long passages without any instruments and there
are intermediate steps you could take like kamals and cross staffs.
So, cast off you goretex, wrap yourself in tree bark and set out in an
open boat for a distant shore and I will read you memoirs in awe.
Meanwhile I will quest for just the right mid layer to keep me
pleasantly warm and dry while I monitor my progress on my gps and I
will be content if my logs make for placid reading...

-- Tom.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:33:18 -0700, Joe
wrote:

On Aug 15, 12:07 pm, " wrote:
... Whats wrong with a lead line and ...sextant.?

...

I was half way to Honolulu from Christmas on a delivery in the 80's
and when we decided to try out the GPS we had borrowed for the
delivery.

Are you sure you were not using a Loran-C...... not a GPS?


I haven't used my sextant since.

That's a shame... They work when everything else fails.

Unfortunately that just isn't so.

Chuck your H.O. Tables over the side and smash your time source with a
hammer and then come back and tell me just how infallible your sextant
is. Oh yes, chuck the hand calculator too so you can do the math with
a pencil.

Then they are all those overcast days when you can't see the sun or
stars and the windy days when you can't stay steady enough to get a
good sight.

I used to use a sextant and if nobody has dropped it so the mirrors
are out of alignment and if you have up to date references and if your
time signal is accurate and if your pencil is still sharp you can get
a cocked hat, maybe a mile on a side so hopefully you are somewhere in
that triangle.

As for a lead line it is a real handy devices when you are single
handing up a narrow channel and trying to stay off the mud banks on
each side..



Dont' get me wrong..I like GPS's.. and carry two, and prefer forward
looking sonar to 3 ounces of lead and a dab of wax.

Joe


On a good day when
everything goes just right a sextant, chronometer and tables can be
used to tell you about where you were an hour ago... From time to
time there are big gaps between the good days and the navigator
typically will rely on a compass, chrono and log to get DRs and EPs at
those times... A lead line is nice, but it requires a full time
operator and a slow boat... But, you don't really NEED even those.
There are several voyaging societies around the Pacific that send
their canoes off on long passages without any instruments and there
are intermediate steps you could take like kamals and cross staffs.
So, cast off you goretex, wrap yourself in tree bark and set out in an
open boat for a distant shore and I will read you memoirs in awe.
Meanwhile I will quest for just the right mid layer to keep me
pleasantly warm and dry while I monitor my progress on my gps and I
will be content if my logs make for placid reading...

-- Tom.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

wrote in news:nhc7c3tqjep52soglt8e7r373n6hnbf1aq@
4ax.com:



Unfortunately that just isn't so.

Chuck your H.O. Tables over the side and smash your time source with a
hammer and then come back and tell me just how infallible your sextant
is. Oh yes, chuck the hand calculator too so you can do the math with
a pencil.

G So you can't figure Long. Lat's better than nuff'n and can keep you
clear of a lot of trouble.


Then they are all those overcast days when you can't see the sun or
stars and the windy days when you can't stay steady enough to get a
good sight.

I used to use a sextant and if nobody has dropped it so the mirrors
are out of alignment and if you have up to date references and if your
time signal is accurate and if your pencil is still sharp you can get
a cocked hat, maybe a mile on a side so hopefully you are somewhere in
that triangle.

LOL Member of the "accuracy to within inches" brigade I see. A one mile
tiangle under conditions which you would normally be using a sextant is a
pretty good fix and well within the parameters you need.
GPS is the way to go, but for long distance cruising in open ocean
conditions with Mr. Murphy sitting beside you, the more you have the
safer you may be.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:10:18 -0000, otnmbrd
wrote:

wrote in news:nhc7c3tqjep52soglt8e7r373n6hnbf1aq@
4ax.com:



Unfortunately that just isn't so.

Chuck your H.O. Tables over the side and smash your time source with a
hammer and then come back and tell me just how infallible your sextant
is. Oh yes, chuck the hand calculator too so you can do the math with
a pencil.

G So you can't figure Long. Lat's better than nuff'n and can keep you
clear of a lot of trouble.


Then they are all those overcast days when you can't see the sun or
stars and the windy days when you can't stay steady enough to get a
good sight.

I used to use a sextant and if nobody has dropped it so the mirrors
are out of alignment and if you have up to date references and if your
time signal is accurate and if your pencil is still sharp you can get
a cocked hat, maybe a mile on a side so hopefully you are somewhere in
that triangle.

LOL Member of the "accuracy to within inches" brigade I see. A one mile
tiangle under conditions which you would normally be using a sextant is a
pretty good fix and well within the parameters you need.
GPS is the way to go, but for long distance cruising in open ocean
conditions with Mr. Murphy sitting beside you, the more you have the
safer you may be.

I wasn't trying to say that one should not carry a sextant and the
tables and an accurate time piece. I was mainly replying to what I
thought was an implication that when all else failed the old sextant
would work and was pointing out that without its additional do-dads it
wouldn't.

I agree that a one mile cocked hat is good navigation but in the
sextant days a lot of people purposely steered a bit north or south of
their destination. Then when they made shore they knew to turn left,
or right, and the case required to find port.




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

wrote in message
...
I wasn't trying to say that one should not carry a sextant and the
tables and an accurate time piece. I was mainly replying to what I
thought was an implication that when all else failed the old sextant
would work and was pointing out that without its additional do-dads it
wouldn't.


You were too. You acted like the old tried-and-true methods were a waste
of time and an anachronism in this day of modern electronics. You even
poo-poohed weather prognostication.



I agree that a one mile cocked hat is good navigation but in the
sextant days a lot of people purposely steered a bit north or south of
their destination. Then when they made shore they knew to turn left,
or right, and the case required to find port.



Wrong again. They steered one way or another according to the wind
direction. They always preferred to find themselves to windward of port
so they could turn and reach to it instead of having to beat. Any real
sailor should know this.

Wilbur Hubbard

On 2007-08-15 14:33:18 -0400, Joe said:

I haven't used my sextant since.

That's a shame... They work when everything else fails.

if it's not cloudy for weeks on end, and you don't need *too* accurate
a position, and you have lots of time and a steady deck and you're
comfortable and experienced with the process..... ;-)

Sorry, but I'm going to have multiple backups on navigation, and a
sextant would be the very last one.

We have a simple boat, no refrigeration, RADAR, pressure water, or
such, but even playing in our back yard, the GPS is on whenever we
move, backing up the line-of-sight and DR navigation. (and we have 3
compasses.)

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Aug 21, 7:42 pm, Jere Lull wrote:

We have a simple boat...backing up the line-of-sight and DR navigation. (and we have 3
compasses.)


Jere Lull

May the Force be with you Jere. "Gizmos, needed are not."

Bob