On Aug 15, 12:07 pm, " wrote:
... Whats wrong with a lead line and ...sextant.?

...

I was half way to Honolulu from Christmas on a delivery in the 80's
and when we decided to try out the GPS we had borrowed for the
delivery.

Are you sure you were not using a Loran-C...... not a GPS?


I haven't used my sextant since.

That's a shame... They work when everything else fails.

Dont' get me wrong..I like GPS's.. and carry two, and prefer forward
looking sonar to 3 ounces of lead and a dab of wax.

Joe


On a good day when
everything goes just right a sextant, chronometer and tables can be
used to tell you about where you were an hour ago... From time to
time there are big gaps between the good days and the navigator
typically will rely on a compass, chrono and log to get DRs and EPs at
those times... A lead line is nice, but it requires a full time
operator and a slow boat... But, you don't really NEED even those.
There are several voyaging societies around the Pacific that send
their canoes off on long passages without any instruments and there
are intermediate steps you could take like kamals and cross staffs.
So, cast off you goretex, wrap yourself in tree bark and set out in an
open boat for a distant shore and I will read you memoirs in awe.
Meanwhile I will quest for just the right mid layer to keep me
pleasantly warm and dry while I monitor my progress on my gps and I
will be content if my logs make for placid reading...

-- Tom.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:33:18 -0700, Joe
wrote:

On Aug 15, 12:07 pm, " wrote:
... Whats wrong with a lead line and ...sextant.?

...

I was half way to Honolulu from Christmas on a delivery in the 80's
and when we decided to try out the GPS we had borrowed for the
delivery.

Are you sure you were not using a Loran-C...... not a GPS?


I haven't used my sextant since.

That's a shame... They work when everything else fails.

Unfortunately that just isn't so.

Chuck your H.O. Tables over the side and smash your time source with a
hammer and then come back and tell me just how infallible your sextant
is. Oh yes, chuck the hand calculator too so you can do the math with
a pencil.

Then they are all those overcast days when you can't see the sun or
stars and the windy days when you can't stay steady enough to get a
good sight.

I used to use a sextant and if nobody has dropped it so the mirrors
are out of alignment and if you have up to date references and if your
time signal is accurate and if your pencil is still sharp you can get
a cocked hat, maybe a mile on a side so hopefully you are somewhere in
that triangle.

As for a lead line it is a real handy devices when you are single
handing up a narrow channel and trying to stay off the mud banks on
each side..



Dont' get me wrong..I like GPS's.. and carry two, and prefer forward
looking sonar to 3 ounces of lead and a dab of wax.

Joe


On a good day when
everything goes just right a sextant, chronometer and tables can be
used to tell you about where you were an hour ago... From time to
time there are big gaps between the good days and the navigator
typically will rely on a compass, chrono and log to get DRs and EPs at
those times... A lead line is nice, but it requires a full time
operator and a slow boat... But, you don't really NEED even those.
There are several voyaging societies around the Pacific that send
their canoes off on long passages without any instruments and there
are intermediate steps you could take like kamals and cross staffs.
So, cast off you goretex, wrap yourself in tree bark and set out in an
open boat for a distant shore and I will read you memoirs in awe.
Meanwhile I will quest for just the right mid layer to keep me
pleasantly warm and dry while I monitor my progress on my gps and I
will be content if my logs make for placid reading...

-- Tom.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

wrote in news:nhc7c3tqjep52soglt8e7r373n6hnbf1aq@
4ax.com:



Unfortunately that just isn't so.

Chuck your H.O. Tables over the side and smash your time source with a
hammer and then come back and tell me just how infallible your sextant
is. Oh yes, chuck the hand calculator too so you can do the math with
a pencil.

G So you can't figure Long. Lat's better than nuff'n and can keep you
clear of a lot of trouble.


Then they are all those overcast days when you can't see the sun or
stars and the windy days when you can't stay steady enough to get a
good sight.

I used to use a sextant and if nobody has dropped it so the mirrors
are out of alignment and if you have up to date references and if your
time signal is accurate and if your pencil is still sharp you can get
a cocked hat, maybe a mile on a side so hopefully you are somewhere in
that triangle.

LOL Member of the "accuracy to within inches" brigade I see. A one mile
tiangle under conditions which you would normally be using a sextant is a
pretty good fix and well within the parameters you need.
GPS is the way to go, but for long distance cruising in open ocean
conditions with Mr. Murphy sitting beside you, the more you have the
safer you may be.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:10:18 -0000, otnmbrd
wrote:

wrote in news:nhc7c3tqjep52soglt8e7r373n6hnbf1aq@
4ax.com:



Unfortunately that just isn't so.

Chuck your H.O. Tables over the side and smash your time source with a
hammer and then come back and tell me just how infallible your sextant
is. Oh yes, chuck the hand calculator too so you can do the math with
a pencil.

G So you can't figure Long. Lat's better than nuff'n and can keep you
clear of a lot of trouble.


Then they are all those overcast days when you can't see the sun or
stars and the windy days when you can't stay steady enough to get a
good sight.

I used to use a sextant and if nobody has dropped it so the mirrors
are out of alignment and if you have up to date references and if your
time signal is accurate and if your pencil is still sharp you can get
a cocked hat, maybe a mile on a side so hopefully you are somewhere in
that triangle.

LOL Member of the "accuracy to within inches" brigade I see. A one mile
tiangle under conditions which you would normally be using a sextant is a
pretty good fix and well within the parameters you need.
GPS is the way to go, but for long distance cruising in open ocean
conditions with Mr. Murphy sitting beside you, the more you have the
safer you may be.

I wasn't trying to say that one should not carry a sextant and the
tables and an accurate time piece. I was mainly replying to what I
thought was an implication that when all else failed the old sextant
would work and was pointing out that without its additional do-dads it
wouldn't.

I agree that a one mile cocked hat is good navigation but in the
sextant days a lot of people purposely steered a bit north or south of
their destination. Then when they made shore they knew to turn left,
or right, and the case required to find port.




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeATgmailDOTcom)

On Aug 14, 9:21 pm, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
I read Skip's postings. Seems he is always having some mechanical
breakdown. If it isn't the self steerer, it is the
auto pilot.. or something.

I got to thinking ..

Joshua Slocum left Boston on April 24, 1895. He sailed around the world
alone. No motor, no self steering, a wooden boat.

That was one great sailor, that is all I'm thinking ..

well now... its pretty darn hard to compare Captain Slocum with
Skip....
the biggest difference being that the good Captain did not have the
advantages that
the Flying Pig has today.
1. the techonologies of the day being nada and today we have lots of
nice toys to aid us in our cruising..

do any of you on this list who are loaded down with a myriad of
electronic toys think you can sail sans, engine and all those toys..
some yes, most absolutely not.
I know some of you can, have and will sail again and prefer to use
thier paper charts, sextant and minimal use of engine.. the rest of
you.. puhhhleeeze you could not get out of the slip if you did not
have that chartplotter, radar, bowthruster and half a dozen dockhands
to get you to open water.
thats harsh, you bet... I anchor out away from newbees for a reason...
and it irritates the heck out of me when someone in a brand new
expensive 40+footer looks at my boat and wonders out loud if she will
sink. why because she is old? or because i am a singel woman
sailing.. no its because they have an overwhelming sense of security
and superiority due to thier dependence on electronics perhaps ...or
they just bought a boat, took a sailing course and think they know it
all now..

Captain Slocum, was a sea captain of many many years before he set out
on spray... please to note our good captain disappeared at sea.. did
he meet a rogue wave, did a whale take a disliking to him sharing the
same sea? did he accidently slip and fall overboard? or did he
deliberately scuttle the boat and himself..who knows... he never came
back to tell the tale did he.. ?

before you judge another sail a mile or two on thier boat with them..
and remember you too could be in a basket getting rescued by the
Coastie.. never know, then again you could sail a zillion miles, have
amazing adventures.. live to tell the tale, sell the boat and become
the landlubbers you once were..

before you get your knickers in a twist over skips need to have
diarhea of the fingers/mouth remember he is telling you everything
that has gone wrong.. don't think it will happen to you... lmao...
cruising is fixing things is exotic places with ridiculuos customs
fees and gaurds who think that bakeesh is thier right. and other
cruisers to just have to meander by and make judgement comments even
though they don't know dick, mary or jane.. then there are those who
do.. and jump to help. and offer a cold beer ..
what do I sail, a LeComte Medalist 33, electroncis, of course... and
my eyes, ears and a fat cat who likes to play bow bunny.. cya out
there!
'bella
s/v Maja
laying annapolis
hailing port: Key West
GO GATORS!!!

wrote in message
...
I wasn't trying to say that one should not carry a sextant and the
tables and an accurate time piece. I was mainly replying to what I
thought was an implication that when all else failed the old sextant
would work and was pointing out that without its additional do-dads it
wouldn't.


You were too. You acted like the old tried-and-true methods were a waste
of time and an anachronism in this day of modern electronics. You even
poo-poohed weather prognostication.



I agree that a one mile cocked hat is good navigation but in the
sextant days a lot of people purposely steered a bit north or south of
their destination. Then when they made shore they knew to turn left,
or right, and the case required to find port.



Wrong again. They steered one way or another according to the wind
direction. They always preferred to find themselves to windward of port
so they could turn and reach to it instead of having to beat. Any real
sailor should know this.

Wilbur Hubbard

On 2007-08-15 14:33:18 -0400, Joe said:

I haven't used my sextant since.

That's a shame... They work when everything else fails.

if it's not cloudy for weeks on end, and you don't need *too* accurate
a position, and you have lots of time and a steady deck and you're
comfortable and experienced with the process..... ;-)

Sorry, but I'm going to have multiple backups on navigation, and a
sextant would be the very last one.

We have a simple boat, no refrigeration, RADAR, pressure water, or
such, but even playing in our back yard, the GPS is on whenever we
move, backing up the line-of-sight and DR navigation. (and we have 3
compasses.)

--
Jere Lull
Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's new pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI pages: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Aug 21, 7:42 pm, Jere Lull wrote:

We have a simple boat...backing up the line-of-sight and DR navigation. (and we have 3
compasses.)


Jere Lull

May the Force be with you Jere. "Gizmos, needed are not."

Bob