Hi, Padeen,

"padeen" wrote in message
...
I'll probably use Access anyway, so the info here is what I was looking
for.
As for the actual data, I doubt many of the boats you find available now
will still be around next spring,

I don't know about that. The vast bulk of what I looked at in my first
trip, in early May, is still there. Of course, I've got the spreadsheet,
still, and in some cases, where I wasn't sure of the facts of a boat we'd
originally rejected (since we'd modified our requirements to accommodate the
reality that we couldn't have them, and were considering boats which now
might fit), went back to review.

Of course, some of those didn't work. But most of them were still
available, and the first boat we offered on is still available, too. The
boat we made our offer on, which was accepted in a flash, has been on the
market for just under 3 years. One of the other boats in which we had a
serious interest, but eventually passed on, had been on the market for more
than 3 years when we saw it (it sold recently at a further reduced price).
The boat which accepted was at a price nearly 1/3 less than the asking price
only a few months ago - and I speculate that it was reduced from something
higher at that, as the price which was accepted was on the order of 60% of
other like boats' asking price.

So, with some exceptions, I'd not be concerned about ones you're interested
in (as a class - an individual boat might be gone) evaporating,
necessarily...

I don't have the height requirement you do
(5'9"), and have only one opinion to contend with, so I don't think it
would
apply.

Thanks again, and good luck.

My pleasure. Let me know if there's any of my research which may be of use.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

Padeen

Great fun. g

One thing I discovered is that the same type of boat can have
significant differences between each boat. In my case, I initially ruled
out WS32's because I didn't have headroom. Then just out of chance
boredom (because I was finished looking at the boats I had lined up) I
stopped to see a WS32 - and I fit into the main salon with 1-1/2" to
spare! So make sure you do the "hands on" with anything that matters to
you before making commitments.

Rufus

Great fun. g

One thing I discovered is that the same type of boat can have
significant differences between each boat. In my case, I initially ruled
out WS32's because I didn't have headroom. Then just out of chance
boredom (because I was finished looking at the boats I had lined up) I
stopped to see a WS32 - and I fit into the main salon with 1-1/2" to
spare! So make sure you do the "hands on" with anything that matters to
you before making commitments.

Rufus

Hi, Padeen,

"padeen" wrote in message
...
I'll probably use Access anyway, so the info here is what I was looking
for.
As for the actual data, I doubt many of the boats you find available now
will still be around next spring,

I don't know about that. The vast bulk of what I looked at in my first
trip, in early May, is still there. Of course, I've got the spreadsheet,
still, and in some cases, where I wasn't sure of the facts of a boat we'd
originally rejected (since we'd modified our requirements to accommodate the
reality that we couldn't have them, and were considering boats which now
might fit), went back to review.

Of course, some of those didn't work. But most of them were still
available, and the first boat we offered on is still available, too. The
boat we made our offer on, which was accepted in a flash, has been on the
market for just under 3 years. One of the other boats in which we had a
serious interest, but eventually passed on, had been on the market for more
than 3 years when we saw it (it sold recently at a further reduced price).
The boat which accepted was at a price nearly 1/3 less than the asking price
only a few months ago - and I speculate that it was reduced from something
higher at that, as the price which was accepted was on the order of 60% of
other like boats' asking price.

So, with some exceptions, I'd not be concerned about ones you're interested
in (as a class - an individual boat might be gone) evaporating,
necessarily...

I don't have the height requirement you do
(5'9"), and have only one opinion to contend with, so I don't think it
would
apply.

Thanks again, and good luck.

My pleasure. Let me know if there's any of my research which may be of use.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

Padeen

I'll probably use Access anyway, so the info here is what I was looking for.
As for the actual data, I doubt many of the boats you find available now
will still be around next spring, I don't have the height requirement you do
(5'9"), and have only one opinion to contend with, so I don't think it would
apply.

Thanks again, and good luck.

Padeen

Hi...

"padeen" wrote in message
...
Hey Skip, thanks for the rundown. I'm facing the same routine this coming
spring, though with some different parameters. But I thought if you'd be
so
kind to post your database; not the info, just the headers, I could see
how
you organized your data. 200 boats!

I can't really post it, because it's in a format the newsgroup wouldn't
accept, unless you'd like it in a tab-delimited file you could import to a
spreadsheet. Of course, that would look pretty much like gobbledygook until
it was imported :{))

However, what I did to organize is made several columns, and three rows
(plus a blank row separator) per boat. The columns were map (how to find it
on the map, wihch I put on the first line of each selection - and on the
third line, I put the boat number in the search, which came after I'd laid
it out in the geography order), contact (the way to reach the seller, which
was always an email except in very infrequent FSBOs), the market (major
geographical location such as MIA or ANN as in Miami and Annapolis - which
helped me in the layout of each trip), the YachtWorld listing number (so
that any broker I'd sent the appropriate portion of the spreadsheet could
easily find it), the boat type (Island Packet 38 - IP38, e.g.) the price in
decimal boatbux (95.9, e.g.) and D/L (loosely called sailing ratio, the
Displacement to Waterline number which we'd want to fall in the mid 2-300
range). All that went on the first line. If there were other important
things you'd want to know in what I'd call a gross description, you could
add them, of course. I organized each cell to take the minimum necessary
space in order to get as many qualifiers as possible. I also printed in
landscape, for the same reason.

The second line started in the second column (and really just used the
second cell, but the text ran on over to however long it took). The first
cell was left blank in order to leave the map and search (our number from 1
to, currently, 175 boats seen in the US, with the remainder, after knocking
off the ones we found unworkable, and the ones we've dumped as too big, now
that we've gotten at least some candidates below 40', to be filled in when I
set up the next trip) open. Back to the second line, it was a shorthand
(DMD = dinghy, motor and davits, for example) quickie list of the things we
found important about this boat, since I carried only the front page of the
YachtWorld listing with me and those usually didn't have any other than a
brief puff piece about the boat, but did have the listing number and the
broker phone number on them, so that I could call if I needed (as I surely
did in this case, you'll recall!).

The third line likewise was actually the second cell; it had the URL for the
main page of that boat. I've found that invaluable to quickly revisit a page
for a boat when I'm trying to recall what was up about it.

In doing my search, I organized using Yachtworld's advanced search, and
specified the area I wanted to see, and the size and cost limitations I
wanted. Then, working down from largest to smallest, I entered the info
from each one I found that I thought I'd want to see into my database.
Since the process took much longer than just a week, I also signed up for
the update service (they send you a list of new listings each week) so that
I didn't have to regenerate the search each time, and so that I didn't have
to try to remember if I'd actually seen a particular boat in the listings or
not (after the first few hundred, it gets difficult!). I also developed
another little trick, taking advantage of my history/memory in the browser.
Since my search ran to 12 pages of 100 each, in order to not have to find my
place each time I quit, I took the current URL of the advanced search page
from the browser URL line, copied it, and pasted it into a new window, and
opened it. That made the history see that as a manual entry, and I just
went to the most recent YW URL in the history when I started up again.
Then, once I'd actually finished, I went through my updates (from the YW
service) and inserted the new ones in the database.

Because I did so many of these, I got adept at doing them in text form, but
until you've done it a while, likely you'd find it easier to do in the
spreadsheet format...

So, in the end, I have a database of boats we're considering ranked in size
from largest to smallest. I've also identified markets, in order to sort
for best travel organization. Since I'm not particularly adept in
spreadsheet formatting, I don't know how to sort my entries (being 4 lines,
including a blank separator between entries) in Excel, so I did my sorting
in Word (the file was far too large for notepad, where I originally started
the construction!). I still kept the largest first, but went to each market
in turn (having first laid out the route I wanted to take) by doing a search
for the map key (ANN=1, NVA=2, etc.) and cut-and-pasting them so that they
would be easily recognizable in the end. Then I re-import *that* file into
a new database which is organized, then, by market, in the order I'm going
to see them. The final step is to go back into the map column and number
each of the entries in sequence (first boat seen = 1, last, in this most
recent trip = 175)

That step makes it easier for me to go back later and retrieve any hard copy
file (I keep them in a notebook as I go, keeping them in numerical order)
when I'm doing a review, or trying to remember why it was that I rejected a
boat.

That's a very long answer to what might have been a very short question.
I'm happy to send the raw or Excel - entered database if it's of any
interest, but unless you're one with many of the same parameters as we, the
individual boats wouldn't likely be interesting to you.

L8R

Skip (and Lydia)

Hey Skip, thanks for the rundown. I'm facing the same routine this coming
spring, though with some different parameters. But I thought if you'd be so
kind to post your database; not the info, just the headers, I could see how
you organized your data. 200 boats!
TIA
Padeen

"Skip Gundlach"
.due.to.spam wrote in
message ink.net...
I've just gotten off the road where I was able to get aboard over 40 boats
(I'd have to review my notes to be sure of just how many, but the list of
candidates was over 70), none of which types we'd been able to see before.

I'm delighted to say that we now have more than one candidate for our
purchase. Up until now, we were despairing of finding a boat which
accommodated my frame (6-4) and Lydia's preferences ("proper boat" and
some
layout distinctions below).

This portion of our search was begun in Annapolis and ended in Charleston,
SC, with additional driving starting and ending near Atlanta. It was made
more exciting by automotive challenges which had my car dying at
inexplicable times; suffice it to say I managed to deal with that and
still
got to see all but two locations with one boat each, and that wasn't
really
a matter of auto challenges so much as it was the embarrassment of riches
which caused the trip to be longer than originally planned. I'm happy to
say that it was longer due to some very apt suggestions from a couple of
brokers, at least two of which suggestions are now on our active list.

This search section is nearly 200 boats big, culled from over 1200
listings
from Annapolis to Corpus Christi. The experience on the first leg has
allowed us to winnow that list down by some notable number, but not a
significant portion. Of the ones which didn't work in the first round,
there were only a few duplicates throughout the rest of the geography; the
deletions were of the bigger boats which, in desperation, we'd included.
Fortunately, there are at least a couple, so far, under 40 feet, and we're
hopeful that in the additional legs (not yet scheduled, but sometime in
the
next few weeks) from Savannah around to Texas, we'll find additional
smaller
boats which will work for us. With only a very few exceptions, all of
this
list is boats we've not been aboard as a type, so we're hopeful that this
first portion's successes continue and allow us to expand our potential
pool
to even more under 40 feet.

Those of you who have been following our adventures know that we'd
strongly
considered, and then eventually discarded, due to inadequate interior and
exterior storage, the Endeavour 42, and made an offer on a Gulfstar 44.
The
GS44 is still interesting to us, but we'd far rather be under 40 feet if
we
possibly can. We've also modified our parameters to be far more inclusive
of items previously not acceptable, the most significant of which is a
Pullman berth, with its slight taper to the feet, and a full, rather than
queen, size.

The two (under 40) we've got which work for us at this point are the Hans
Christian 33 and the Island Packet 38. A strong contender was the
Fantasia
35, but in the end, it just didn't quite make it in the stern cabin.
However, those are very interesting boats, for sure!

Ironically, the boat we'd always cited as one which we thought to be very
close to our ideal in layout, but (we thought), too small in size, is the
HC33. Surprise - I don't touch anywhere except in the shower.

In addition, Morgan 452, Stamas 44, Young Sun 43, Gulfstar 43, Endeavour
43,
Mason 43, Catalina 42 also work, though we'd rather stay under 40 feet.
It
appears, perhaps, that we'll be able to do that.

While this is exhausting and tedious, I'm looking forward to the next
round
of boats, as there's several under 40 candidates among them. With the
successes of this trip, we've knocked out the bigger boats we'd added in
desperation. As it's turned out, at least for the ones we'd had on the
list
in this leg, none of the bigger boats fit me any better, anyway, and some
were what I call 'severe bonk boats' - ones in which I can hit the *back*
of
my head against the ceiling :{/)

Back to the HC33 (4 to choose from in this trip alone! - with another 3 or
4
in the rest of the legs of this search), we're leaning away from it due to
all the exterior wood it has (and the attendant upkeep). However, until
we've got more from which to choose, we'll keep them, and also want to
look
at their bigger sister, the HC 38. In addition, while it's clearly bigger
than we want in total, the Stamas 44 is absolutely stunning (for our
purpose). The particular boat is equipped just as though we'd written the
specs, with the niggling 44' and the couple of (small) areas which seem to
be designed for carpeting in the interior (no wood on the floor, all
basically non-skid-ish texture, but not diamondstep, fiberglass) as the
only
exceptions. The two-edged sword for this boat is that there aren't very
many of them; it probably means that it could be bought less expensively
than a comparable other boat, but it also will spell trouble later on when
we try to sell it.

So, while I try to catch up from being gone, I'm also planning out the
next
phase, and adding in the boats which have been contributed by the (very
professional!) broker we worked with in Annapolis, Frank Gary, of Bristol
Yachts. The removals will be about balanced by the additions, I think, so
there's still well over a hundred left to see!

However, we're definitely moving closer. Lydia's house will go on the
market soon, and I'm still emptying mine, though have a few interested
potential buyers in hand, along with the same for most of my other boating
stock (two power boats, two rowing shells, three windsurfers and 2 dinghy
sailboats - and a partridge in a pear tree).

Woo hoo :{))

L8R

Skip and Lydia