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#1
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for W4CSC
Larry,
I am rewiring my boat and have a question on wiring for the HF radio. Best engineering practices would be to wire to power leads directly to the battery (about 6-7'). I want to wire it to the DC distribution panel with a CB (also about 6-7' from the radio) so that both battery banks could be used. If I use ferrite on each end of the wire, would this be sufficient to prevent RFI being radiated at the panel? Do they make ferrite's for 6AWG wire? Kelton s/v Isle Escape |
#2
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for W4CSC
The RFI in the boat is caused not by RF backing up the HF DC leads,
which are VERY filtered inside the radio, but by the wiring in the boat acting like an antenna in the RF field of the HF transmitting antenna, itself. There's always been lots of RF from your HF radio in the wiring. If it's not causing any problem, don't worry about it. Seeing as how you are rewiring, let me suggest what I did aboard Lionheart that everyone has enjoyed so much......a master relay....... Lionheart has a #2 primary coming from the master switch through a 60A fuse block to a continuous duty power relay, rated at 100A. It looks like a car starter solenoid used in a Ford but has a continuous duty coil so you can leave it on, not just bump it intermittently. I found a nice marine push-pull power switch in a bargain bin and use that to ground the low side of the coil (it has two terminals) to energize the relay. The relay energizes a power panel all the electronics in the boat is connected to. It also energizes a red LED next to the switch so you can look up on your way ashore to see that the electronics is on or off. Dock the boat, push in the switch, and every piece of electronics except the stereo we might want to run while docked is shut down all at once. No more going off forgetting you left the breaker to the sonar on. Some equipment refuses to come on automatically when you power up its DC lead, so you have to turn them on separately, but pull that knob and the whole extensive electronics suite comes alive with ONE BUTTON. Think about it...(c; My forgetful captain loves it. He no longer has to figure out which switches to leave on and which to turn off while his guests are pressing him to get the bar in operation....(c; On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:55:46 -0500, Kelton Joyner wrote: Larry, I am rewiring my boat and have a question on wiring for the HF radio. Best engineering practices would be to wire to power leads directly to the battery (about 6-7'). I want to wire it to the DC distribution panel with a CB (also about 6-7' from the radio) so that both battery banks could be used. If I use ferrite on each end of the wire, would this be sufficient to prevent RFI being radiated at the panel? Do they make ferrite's for 6AWG wire? Kelton s/v Isle Escape Larry W4CSC "Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!" |
#3
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for W4CSC
H'mm. Convenient, but it violates KISS. Where (electrically) do you put
the radios -- you may use both VHF and SSB while not at sea? What does the relay coil draw -- 5 or 10 watts? On Swee****er, all the "at sea" equipment was in one column on the panel, next to the nav station. Convenient. Simple. On Fintry we'll probably have color codes on the switches and maybe a master "at sea" breaker (breakers are cheap). All the electronics will be on a DC subpanel in the wheelhouse. Simple. -- Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com .. "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... The RFI in the boat is caused not by RF backing up the HF DC leads, which are VERY filtered inside the radio, but by the wiring in the boat acting like an antenna in the RF field of the HF transmitting antenna, itself. There's always been lots of RF from your HF radio in the wiring. If it's not causing any problem, don't worry about it. Seeing as how you are rewiring, let me suggest what I did aboard Lionheart that everyone has enjoyed so much......a master relay....... Lionheart has a #2 primary coming from the master switch through a 60A fuse block to a continuous duty power relay, rated at 100A. It looks like a car starter solenoid used in a Ford but has a continuous duty coil so you can leave it on, not just bump it intermittently. I found a nice marine push-pull power switch in a bargain bin and use that to ground the low side of the coil (it has two terminals) to energize the relay. The relay energizes a power panel all the electronics in the boat is connected to. It also energizes a red LED next to the switch so you can look up on your way ashore to see that the electronics is on or off. Dock the boat, push in the switch, and every piece of electronics except the stereo we might want to run while docked is shut down all at once. No more going off forgetting you left the breaker to the sonar on. Some equipment refuses to come on automatically when you power up its DC lead, so you have to turn them on separately, but pull that knob and the whole extensive electronics suite comes alive with ONE BUTTON. Think about it...(c; My forgetful captain loves it. He no longer has to figure out which switches to leave on and which to turn off while his guests are pressing him to get the bar in operation....(c; On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:55:46 -0500, Kelton Joyner wrote: Larry, I am rewiring my boat and have a question on wiring for the HF radio. Best engineering practices would be to wire to power leads directly to the battery (about 6-7'). I want to wire it to the DC distribution panel with a CB (also about 6-7' from the radio) so that both battery banks could be used. If I use ferrite on each end of the wire, would this be sufficient to prevent RFI being radiated at the panel? Do they make ferrite's for 6AWG wire? Kelton s/v Isle Escape Larry W4CSC "Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!" |
#4
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for W4CSC
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:18:38 -0500, "Jim Woodward" jameslwoodward at
attbi dot com wrote: H'mm. Convenient, but it violates KISS. Where (electrically) do you put the radios -- you may use both VHF and SSB while not at sea? What does the relay coil draw -- 5 or 10 watts? Radios run off the switched power panel. Question 2, yes. You're free to turn off any of the controlled breakers if you just want to use one piece, say for 20 meter SSB. Relay coil draws about 1/2A. That draw is nothing compared to the dead batteries of leaving something on this system simply secures. On Swee****er, all the "at sea" equipment was in one column on the panel, next to the nav station. Convenient. Simple. On Fintry we'll probably have color codes on the switches and maybe a master "at sea" breaker (breakers are cheap). All the electronics will be on a DC subpanel in the wheelhouse. Simple. The relay allowed me to split up the load. There are actually two small panels tied to the relay by the batteries, one at the nav station below and the other at the helm. This "remote control" makes it simpler to wire as the wireways between helm and nav are just jammed. It also reduces wire length and "amps/feet" by splitting the load right near the batteries. The nav load goes one way, the helm load the other. Better "housepower"... Larry W4CSC "Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!" |
#5
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for W4CSC
I took a similar approach. Breakers that are normally left on all the
time have green pilot LEDs. Things that should not be left on all the time (running lights, heater, radios, etc are amber, and things that should only be on when actually used (emergency fuel pump, etc) have red LEDs. Just a glance at the panel gives me the story. 1/2 amp for a relay for convenience only seems like a waste to me. I'd use a latching relay that only draws current when actually switching or to keep it simple, I'd just use a switch. Doug "Jim Woodward" jameslwoodward at attbi dot com wrote in message ... H'mm. Convenient, but it violates KISS. Where (electrically) do you put the radios -- you may use both VHF and SSB while not at sea? What does the relay coil draw -- 5 or 10 watts? On Swee****er, all the "at sea" equipment was in one column on the panel, next to the nav station. Convenient. Simple. On Fintry we'll probably have color codes on the switches and maybe a master "at sea" breaker (breakers are cheap). All the electronics will be on a DC subpanel in the wheelhouse. Simple. -- Jim Woodward www.mvFintry.com . "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... The RFI in the boat is caused not by RF backing up the HF DC leads, which are VERY filtered inside the radio, but by the wiring in the boat acting like an antenna in the RF field of the HF transmitting antenna, itself. There's always been lots of RF from your HF radio in the wiring. If it's not causing any problem, don't worry about it. Seeing as how you are rewiring, let me suggest what I did aboard Lionheart that everyone has enjoyed so much......a master relay....... Lionheart has a #2 primary coming from the master switch through a 60A fuse block to a continuous duty power relay, rated at 100A. It looks like a car starter solenoid used in a Ford but has a continuous duty coil so you can leave it on, not just bump it intermittently. I found a nice marine push-pull power switch in a bargain bin and use that to ground the low side of the coil (it has two terminals) to energize the relay. The relay energizes a power panel all the electronics in the boat is connected to. It also energizes a red LED next to the switch so you can look up on your way ashore to see that the electronics is on or off. Dock the boat, push in the switch, and every piece of electronics except the stereo we might want to run while docked is shut down all at once. No more going off forgetting you left the breaker to the sonar on. Some equipment refuses to come on automatically when you power up its DC lead, so you have to turn them on separately, but pull that knob and the whole extensive electronics suite comes alive with ONE BUTTON. Think about it...(c; My forgetful captain loves it. He no longer has to figure out which switches to leave on and which to turn off while his guests are pressing him to get the bar in operation....(c; On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 08:55:46 -0500, Kelton Joyner wrote: Larry, I am rewiring my boat and have a question on wiring for the HF radio. Best engineering practices would be to wire to power leads directly to the battery (about 6-7'). I want to wire it to the DC distribution panel with a CB (also about 6-7' from the radio) so that both battery banks could be used. If I use ferrite on each end of the wire, would this be sufficient to prevent RFI being radiated at the panel? Do they make ferrite's for 6AWG wire? Kelton s/v Isle Escape Larry W4CSC "Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!" |
#6
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for W4CSC
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:07:14 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote: I took a similar approach. Breakers that are normally left on all the time have green pilot LEDs. Things that should not be left on all the time (running lights, heater, radios, etc are amber, and things that should only be on when actually used (emergency fuel pump, etc) have red LEDs. Just a glance at the panel gives me the story. 1/2 amp for a relay for convenience only seems like a waste to me. I'd use a latching relay that only draws current when actually switching or to keep it simple, I'd just use a switch. Doug The only "capacity" issue aboard Lionheart is we don't have near enough CHARGER off the AC line, at the moment. That's being rectified. There's plenty of DC power, mostly over concerns about the 12A drain from the B&G Pilot's hydraulic pump when it's running. But the twin 700AH battery banks have plenty of reserve for running it until someone wants a shower or other hot water, giving us an excuse to start the Perkins and the 120 amp house alternator for some serious charging power. The engine change has been pushed back to the first week in December, so the big alternator will have TWO drive belts that won't squeal under the strain like it has one now.... To charge the 700AH beasts from dead would still require hours at 120A, 60A per bank. The other power sources like shaft alternator, solar panel, wind charger are just fluff. They'd take forever to charge the beasts....and the 10A charger currently on the boat has never caught up...(c; Larry W4CSC "Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!" |
#7
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for W4CSC
My intent is to do everything from solar and wind only for the most
part. Our shorepower charger is currently 110A and we generally use the genset to power it while pulling down the cold plates at anchor. Alternator on the engine is 160A. I wish it was large frame with 2 belts but unfortunately I don't have the space to mount the larger unit. 12A for the autopilot doesn't seem too bad if it only runs when moving the rudder. Mine has a standby of an amp or two but can peak out at 22A when moving the rudder quickly or against alot of helm. Doug "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:07:14 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: I took a similar approach. Breakers that are normally left on all the time have green pilot LEDs. Things that should not be left on all the time (running lights, heater, radios, etc are amber, and things that should only be on when actually used (emergency fuel pump, etc) have red LEDs. Just a glance at the panel gives me the story. 1/2 amp for a relay for convenience only seems like a waste to me. I'd use a latching relay that only draws current when actually switching or to keep it simple, I'd just use a switch. Doug The only "capacity" issue aboard Lionheart is we don't have near enough CHARGER off the AC line, at the moment. That's being rectified. There's plenty of DC power, mostly over concerns about the 12A drain from the B&G Pilot's hydraulic pump when it's running. But the twin 700AH battery banks have plenty of reserve for running it until someone wants a shower or other hot water, giving us an excuse to start the Perkins and the 120 amp house alternator for some serious charging power. The engine change has been pushed back to the first week in December, so the big alternator will have TWO drive belts that won't squeal under the strain like it has one now.... To charge the 700AH beasts from dead would still require hours at 120A, 60A per bank. The other power sources like shaft alternator, solar panel, wind charger are just fluff. They'd take forever to charge the beasts....and the 10A charger currently on the boat has never caught up...(c; Larry W4CSC "Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!" |
#8
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for W4CSC
My intent is to do everything from solar and wind only for the most
part. Our shorepower charger is currently 110A and we generally use the genset to power it while pulling down the cold plates at anchor. Alternator on the engine is 160A. I wish it was large frame with 2 belts but unfortunately I don't have the space to mount the larger unit. 12A for the autopilot doesn't seem too bad if it only runs when moving the rudder. Mine has a standby of an amp or two but can peak out at 22A when moving the rudder quickly or against alot of helm. Doug "Larry W4CSC" wrote in message ... On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:07:14 -0500, "Doug Dotson" wrote: I took a similar approach. Breakers that are normally left on all the time have green pilot LEDs. Things that should not be left on all the time (running lights, heater, radios, etc are amber, and things that should only be on when actually used (emergency fuel pump, etc) have red LEDs. Just a glance at the panel gives me the story. 1/2 amp for a relay for convenience only seems like a waste to me. I'd use a latching relay that only draws current when actually switching or to keep it simple, I'd just use a switch. Doug The only "capacity" issue aboard Lionheart is we don't have near enough CHARGER off the AC line, at the moment. That's being rectified. There's plenty of DC power, mostly over concerns about the 12A drain from the B&G Pilot's hydraulic pump when it's running. But the twin 700AH battery banks have plenty of reserve for running it until someone wants a shower or other hot water, giving us an excuse to start the Perkins and the 120 amp house alternator for some serious charging power. The engine change has been pushed back to the first week in December, so the big alternator will have TWO drive belts that won't squeal under the strain like it has one now.... To charge the 700AH beasts from dead would still require hours at 120A, 60A per bank. The other power sources like shaft alternator, solar panel, wind charger are just fluff. They'd take forever to charge the beasts....and the 10A charger currently on the boat has never caught up...(c; Larry W4CSC "Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!" |
#9
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for W4CSC
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 14:07:14 -0500, "Doug Dotson"
wrote: I took a similar approach. Breakers that are normally left on all the time have green pilot LEDs. Things that should not be left on all the time (running lights, heater, radios, etc are amber, and things that should only be on when actually used (emergency fuel pump, etc) have red LEDs. Just a glance at the panel gives me the story. 1/2 amp for a relay for convenience only seems like a waste to me. I'd use a latching relay that only draws current when actually switching or to keep it simple, I'd just use a switch. Doug The only "capacity" issue aboard Lionheart is we don't have near enough CHARGER off the AC line, at the moment. That's being rectified. There's plenty of DC power, mostly over concerns about the 12A drain from the B&G Pilot's hydraulic pump when it's running. But the twin 700AH battery banks have plenty of reserve for running it until someone wants a shower or other hot water, giving us an excuse to start the Perkins and the 120 amp house alternator for some serious charging power. The engine change has been pushed back to the first week in December, so the big alternator will have TWO drive belts that won't squeal under the strain like it has one now.... To charge the 700AH beasts from dead would still require hours at 120A, 60A per bank. The other power sources like shaft alternator, solar panel, wind charger are just fluff. They'd take forever to charge the beasts....and the 10A charger currently on the boat has never caught up...(c; Larry W4CSC "Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!" |
#10
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for W4CSC
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 10:18:38 -0500, "Jim Woodward" jameslwoodward at
attbi dot com wrote: H'mm. Convenient, but it violates KISS. Where (electrically) do you put the radios -- you may use both VHF and SSB while not at sea? What does the relay coil draw -- 5 or 10 watts? Radios run off the switched power panel. Question 2, yes. You're free to turn off any of the controlled breakers if you just want to use one piece, say for 20 meter SSB. Relay coil draws about 1/2A. That draw is nothing compared to the dead batteries of leaving something on this system simply secures. On Swee****er, all the "at sea" equipment was in one column on the panel, next to the nav station. Convenient. Simple. On Fintry we'll probably have color codes on the switches and maybe a master "at sea" breaker (breakers are cheap). All the electronics will be on a DC subpanel in the wheelhouse. Simple. The relay allowed me to split up the load. There are actually two small panels tied to the relay by the batteries, one at the nav station below and the other at the helm. This "remote control" makes it simpler to wire as the wireways between helm and nav are just jammed. It also reduces wire length and "amps/feet" by splitting the load right near the batteries. The nav load goes one way, the helm load the other. Better "housepower"... Larry W4CSC "Very funny, Scotty! Now, BEAM ME MY CLOTHES! KIRK OUT!" |