Hi Larry,
You made mention about New Zealand regs.

I have not lived there since we left in 1996 but I don't think things
have changed that much.

At that time there was no legal requirement for any certification
regarding boat operation apart from having to comply with marine
legislation such as no bow riding (commonly seen here in Trinidad in
powerful pirogues - children about 6 years old and younger), speed
past anchored boats etc.

There is a government/volunteer based "Boat owner's Certificate" which
requires both a written and practical examination.

The Ministry of Transport ran "Yachtmaster" and "Ocean Yachtmaster"
courses which also were followed by a lengthy written examination.
They gave out great notes which were very detailed. Some of the
aspects covered were such as sextant navigation, medical first aid -
broken limbs and the like, compass swinging, and basically everything
needed to be able to be knowledgable at sea and keep out of trouble.

When we left, in order to get a Customs clearance to depart, we had to
be examined by a voluntary, yacht club based ( we didn't bel;ong to
one but it was regionally based) inspection. This took about 4 hours
and involved taking the boat out of the water. They inspected
everything - structural, navigation knowledge, my ability to use
sextant if GPS went down (by the way, what does it mean when peoiple
say "My hard drive went down on me?"), medical knowledge and lots of
"what ifs". They also made some very sensible suggestions such as
having some sort of security for the wash boards in the event of a
rollover and a latch for the main hatch that could be opened from
inside as well as out. Also, a manual bilge pump that could be
operated by the helmsman.

Compulsory equipment included a life raft, and an EPIRB (the old
type).

At the time there was a lot of heated annoyance by foreign cruisers at
having to comply but bear in mind that little N.Z. with its 3.5
million population has one of the largest search and rescue areas in
the world - almost to Chile, and we don't charge for rescues.

I believe that New Zealand (officially known as God's Own Country) has
one of the greatest per capita boat ownership in the world. There was
a large weekly boating magazine published with a type of "Richard
Head" of the week in the first pages. If somebody such as a large
powerboat zoomed into an anchorage at high speed, creating a wash that
upset everyone's dinner, the name of the boat and possible the owner's
name or boat club would be published under a large headline with the
offence. - Self regulation. Can you imagine having your boat's name
and yours in a national publication for being a dickhead - much more
effective than a fine which these boat owners could easily pay?

Also bear in mind that on one side of our long land we have a mainly
rocky coast bounding the Tasman Sea, one of the worst patches of sea
in the world. On the other, with a much more feminine coast, we have
the Pacific Ocean all the way to Chile. When we used to sail out of
our harbour of Whangamata we would usually meet large Pacific rollers.
Our nearest neighbours, Australia and Fiji are 1,200 miles away. Most
idiots do not venture out without thinking about it twice. If some do
and die, it has the advantage of natural selection in increasing our
average IQ. However, it could also be the merely the Will of God.

In accordance with your recent thread and having met some of your
cruising countrymen here in Trinidad who so proudly talk of their
"overnighter" from Grenada 86 miles away - the longest non-stop sail
they have had since leaving the US (I did say SOME), I am amazed at
how they are able to operate such big vessels and am not at all
surprised at the inevitable mishaps. I don't mean to appear arrogant.
My friend who hails from California makes a reasonably good income in
sush as changing a fuse, screwing a new cleat on and other minor tasks
that the reo do.st of us would be embarrassed to not know how t

Insha-Allah
Peter

Godzone -- I love the place. Great people, good sailing,
beautiful country. I've sailed down there and back three times since
Peter left and as a foreigner have a little different perspective.
So, with the greatest of respect I will add some comments to Peter's
essay.

... there was no legal requirement for any certification
regarding boat operation ...

This is still the case. Your cross Tasman cousins have boater
licensing. I have one of them and the test and practical work were
trivial.

....
When we left, in order to get a Customs clearance to depart, we had to
be examined by a voluntary [examiner]...
At the time there was a lot of heated annoyance by foreign cruisers at
having to comply but bear in mind that little N.Z. with its 3.5
million population has one of the largest search and rescue areas in
the world - almost to Chile, and we don't charge for rescues.
....

The exam was found to be illegal for foreign flagged vessels because
NZ is a signatory to the SOLAS/IMO agreements. Charging for rescue is
also not allowed for signatories. The people who objected to the
inspections noted that most foreign vessels in New Zealand arrived on
their own bottoms and were likely to be seaworthy; that records
suggested that almost all rescues at sea carried out by NZ assets were
for NZ vessels; that the vessels were already required to comply with
their home countries safety laws and that complying with NZ laws as
well would be have them carrying redundant equipment; that the
inspections varied greatly depending on the inspector and the
inspected and there were questions of fairness and due process.

....
Our nearest neighbours, Australia and Fiji are 1,200 miles away. ...

New Caledonia is about 900 miles from Opua. Brisbane and Suva about
1,100 as the jet flys, but let's not quibble since distance sailed
will be greater anyway.

....
In accordance with your recent thread and having met some of your
cruising countrymen here in Trinidad who so proudly talk of their
"overnighter" from Grenada 86 miles away - the longest non-stop sail
they have had since leaving the US (I did say SOME), I am amazed at
how they are able to operate such big vessels and am not at all
surprised at the inevitable mishaps. ...

New Zealanders are justifiably famous for their can do attitude.
Still, I met several New Zealanders in Tonga who had built or
refurbished back yard boats or dubious quality and set off from NZ
with no offshore experience and no training... Made me worried just
thinking about it, but as you say, in the long run Darwin sets us all
straight.

-- Tom.

" wrote in
ups.com:

The exam was found to be illegal for foreign flagged vessels because
NZ is a signatory to the SOLAS/IMO agreements. Charging for rescue is
also not allowed for signatories. The people who objected to the
inspections noted that most foreign vessels in New Zealand arrived on
their own bottoms and were likely to be seaworthy; that records
suggested that almost all rescues at sea carried out by NZ assets were
for NZ vessels; that the vessels were already required to comply with
their home countries safety laws and that complying with NZ laws as
well would be have them carrying redundant equipment; that the
inspections varied greatly depending on the inspector and the
inspected and there were questions of fairness and due process.


I have a video of a barge canal trip throughout France, Germany, etc.,
made by an Englishman. His vessel is a barge home pushed by a tugboat.

In several places he was forbidden to proceed until he had added some
pretty stupid equipment, required by the bureaucrats controlling that
waterway, like huge anchors and windlasses to the stern of the tugboat
before entering the Rhine comes to mind.

I wonder if these same SOLAS/IMO agreements used in NZ to prevent
inspections couldn't have been applied to France and Germany, both also
signatories, to prevent him having to buy that unnecessary anchoring
system.....??

His barge complied with all rules/regulations of England, another
signatory.


Larry
--

....
I have a video of a barge canal trip throughout France, Germany, etc.,
made by an Englishman. His vessel is a barge home pushed by a tugboat.

In several places he was forbidden to proceed until he had added some
pretty stupid equipment, required by the bureaucrats...

Sounds like one of those videos that's really funny unless you have to
foot the bill... I'm no lawyer, and it took several lawyers (working
for free) to convince NZ to abide by their agreements. I hate to think
what it would take to move the EU. Also, I'm pretty sure that the
SOLAS/IMO stuff only applies to international waters. So I don't
think it would have helped you friend navigating on inland waters.

-- Tom.

" wrote in
ups.com:

SOLAS/IMO stuff only applies to international waters. So I don't
think it would have helped you friend navigating on inland waters.



One side of the Rhine is Germany...the other France. That's pretty
international....except when Germans send troops and Panzers across.

Larry
--

....
One side of the Rhine is Germany...the other France. That's pretty
international....except when Germans send troops and Panzers across.
....

Yes, but "international waters" in this case means waters covered by
72 COLREGS (ie. outside the COLREGS demarcation lines)... That
doesn't include the Rhine.

-- Tom.