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Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 14, 9:13 pm, "mr.b" wrote:
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 18:02:32 -0700, steelredcloud wrote: snip Your other fan was wrong. You're not retarded, you're just a ****ing idiot. *plonk* Oh boy, another witty loser who stays within the confines established by his own shortcomings...... You and Big Mac must have been debating champions of the short bus. Run along now Mrs b, another hissy fit like that you'll end up inflicting enough damage to yourself to bleed to death. Joe |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
With all this wonderful conversation here I thought the original
thread was a cross post from asa sailing. Guess I was wrong. Hummm. Bob |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
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Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Peter Hendra wrote:
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:11:25 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: After reading of the troubles in those waters, that plan is now on hold. Perhaps sailing to NZ and flying to Sydney from there would be a better approach, but to be blunt, I am now sorely disappointed with Australia and have no desire to visit there at all. --Vic Vic, The verse from the Bible comes to mind about taking the beam from one's own eye before taking the mote from another's. In Spain our family went through the lengthy and expensive process of applying for US Visas as we had intended sailing up the eastern seaboard of the US. If we had flown there we would have been part of the Visa waver system. After talking with several non-American yachts(persons) who had visited the US, and in investigating the requirements of officialdom with regard to a foreign yacht visiting your country, we, with much regret, decided against it. You probably know nothing of these restrictions as they do not affect you. I, who hold Australian citizenship as well as my other two, have not seen fit to date to burst into a tirade of criticism against US officialdom and its seemingly pathetic pettiness with its rules of entry and travel within America by foreign yacht that are far more restictive and onerous that Australia has in place. I merely accept it and change my plans. Railing against the rules will not change them. Perhaps that is why I do not have high blood pressure. Dissappointed as we are, we have decided that if we wish to visit the places we have always wanted to go, such as the Smithsonian Museums etc, then we will have to arrive by air and travel by car even though we will have to suffer the indignities of your immigration and airtravel processes where ordinary people are treated as potential criminals and verbally abused at your airports (I have flown through the States twice in the past year). Incidentally, to see an elderly American lady yelled at by some uncouth thug of a security person at LA airport "I said - take off your jacket" when going through security, frankly made my blood boil. To my shame, being a long time coward, I did not object. I can burst into print on my annoyance at radio broadcasts on VHF when sailing up the Red Sea in international waters - "This is US task force xxx. Any vessel approaching within two miles is likely to be fired upon:" and having to alter course under a difficult sail into the wind - bloody cheek. Or about a helicopter gunship hovering over my masthead for two full minutes and not responding to my VHF. Have you any idea just how intimidating that is, especially to a child? Where were they in the piracy zone further east when a British yacht got stripped two weeks before we went through and a group of five were chased and fired upon? The only response was from a French warship. I could get angry at the right the US Coastguard claim of being able to board and search, without any financial recompence for damage, my New Zealand flagged yacht anywhere in the Caribbean. I can't prevent it so I don't. I just stay away. That's life. If we wish to visit somewhere, we put up with the processes if we feel that it is worth it. If not, we don't go. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it which in many people's minds has ruined the Med and the Caribbean. That's cruising, which is what this newsgroup is all about. cheers Peter Hendra what is the law here. i was under the usumption that the US had no jusidiction out side there waters on any boat other than a US boat. you are saying that if i was in international waters or british water then i can be boarded by a US boat? I thought that amounted to piracy its self. Shaun |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Shaun,
I don't know the exact geographic bounds in which boarding may take place but other yachtees tell of being boarded at sea in international waters within the Caribbean off Haiti and near Martinique. Incidently, the Red Sea where a helicopter gunship havered just above my mast for two minutes without identifying itself despite my VHF requests was in international waters, far from the "war zone" in Iraq. cheers Peter what is the law here. i was under the usumption that the US had no jusidiction out side there waters on any boat other than a US boat. you are saying that if i was in international waters or british water then i can be boarded by a US boat? I thought that amounted to piracy its self. Shaun |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Peter Hendra wrote:
Shaun, I don't know the exact geographic bounds in which boarding may take place but other yachtees tell of being boarded at sea in international waters within the Caribbean off Haiti and near Martinique. Incidently, the Red Sea where a helicopter gunship havered just above my mast for two minutes without identifying itself despite my VHF requests was in international waters, far from the "war zone" in Iraq. cheers Peter what is the law here. i was under the usumption that the US had no jusidiction out side there waters on any boat other than a US boat. you are saying that if i was in international waters or british water then i can be boarded by a US boat? I thought that amounted to piracy its self. Shaun Does any one here know what the true standing is in this matter As a NON US boat do i have the right to refuse to allow any one other than my designated gov to board my boat. To the best of my knowledge (which may be wrong) once out side the 3 mile limit then the USA has no rights and can be treated as any other boat. I understand the fact if i am INSIDE territorial waters then that territory has the right to board for customs and breaches of there local laws...(or not as the case may be) From memory australia has a 15 mile border with a 200 kilometer fishing zone which only applies if you are fishing or a fishing vessel. please elluminate Shaun |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:47:14 +0800, shaun
wrote: Peter Hendra wrote: Shaun, I don't know the exact geographic bounds in which boarding may take place but other yachtees tell of being boarded at sea in international waters within the Caribbean off Haiti and near Martinique. Incidently, the Red Sea where a helicopter gunship havered just above my mast for two minutes without identifying itself despite my VHF requests was in international waters, far from the "war zone" in Iraq. cheers Peter what is the law here. i was under the usumption that the US had no jusidiction out side there waters on any boat other than a US boat. you are saying that if i was in international waters or british water then i can be boarded by a US boat? I thought that amounted to piracy its self. Shaun Does any one here know what the true standing is in this matter As a NON US boat do i have the right to refuse to allow any one other than my designated gov to board my boat. To the best of my knowledge (which may be wrong) once out side the 3 mile limit then the USA has no rights and can be treated as any other boat. I understand the fact if i am INSIDE territorial waters then that territory has the right to board for customs and breaches of there local laws...(or not as the case may be) From memory australia has a 15 mile border with a 200 kilometer fishing zone which only applies if you are fishing or a fishing vessel. please elluminate Shaun You're asking the question "What can a 600 lb. gorilla do? And the answer is "whatever he wants to". If the Coast Guard decides to board you on the High Seas they will come in a 180 ft. Coast Guard Cutter equipped with rapid firing cannons. They will undoubtedly launch an inflatable boat and a crew of armed Coast Guardsmen will come along side. At least one will be armed with an automatic weapon and they won't ask you if they can come aboard; they simply will. They may ask you whether you will allow them to search your boat but regardless of your answer be assured that they will search. You can also be assured that if they do stop you they have either a reason to, or they can justify to their superiors their stopping you. In either case, if you resist you will be deemed to be in the wrong. What do you plan doing to prevent them? If you shoot at them you can be assured that they will return your fire and they've got cannons. You can sue them. Of course they have a hundred and 20 crew members to testify how suspicious you were acting. All in all a lose, lose situation. You mention the 3 mile limit but I've seen several U.S. Coast Guard "cutters" in Singapore, enough times to make me think that at least one cutter is stationed in Asia. A long 3 miles from California.... Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
"shaun" wrote in message
... Peter Hendra wrote: On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:11:25 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: After reading of the troubles in those waters, that plan is now on hold. Perhaps sailing to NZ and flying to Sydney from there would be a better approach, but to be blunt, I am now sorely disappointed with Australia and have no desire to visit there at all. --Vic Vic, The verse from the Bible comes to mind about taking the beam from one's own eye before taking the mote from another's. In Spain our family went through the lengthy and expensive process of applying for US Visas as we had intended sailing up the eastern seaboard of the US. If we had flown there we would have been part of the Visa waver system. After talking with several non-American yachts(persons) who had visited the US, and in investigating the requirements of officialdom with regard to a foreign yacht visiting your country, we, with much regret, decided against it. You probably know nothing of these restrictions as they do not affect you. I, who hold Australian citizenship as well as my other two, have not seen fit to date to burst into a tirade of criticism against US officialdom and its seemingly pathetic pettiness with its rules of entry and travel within America by foreign yacht that are far more restictive and onerous that Australia has in place. I merely accept it and change my plans. Railing against the rules will not change them. Perhaps that is why I do not have high blood pressure. Dissappointed as we are, we have decided that if we wish to visit the places we have always wanted to go, such as the Smithsonian Museums etc, then we will have to arrive by air and travel by car even though we will have to suffer the indignities of your immigration and airtravel processes where ordinary people are treated as potential criminals and verbally abused at your airports (I have flown through the States twice in the past year). Incidentally, to see an elderly American lady yelled at by some uncouth thug of a security person at LA airport "I said - take off your jacket" when going through security, frankly made my blood boil. To my shame, being a long time coward, I did not object. I can burst into print on my annoyance at radio broadcasts on VHF when sailing up the Red Sea in international waters - "This is US task force xxx. Any vessel approaching within two miles is likely to be fired upon:" and having to alter course under a difficult sail into the wind - bloody cheek. Or about a helicopter gunship hovering over my masthead for two full minutes and not responding to my VHF. Have you any idea just how intimidating that is, especially to a child? Where were they in the piracy zone further east when a British yacht got stripped two weeks before we went through and a group of five were chased and fired upon? The only response was from a French warship. I could get angry at the right the US Coastguard claim of being able to board and search, without any financial recompence for damage, my New Zealand flagged yacht anywhere in the Caribbean. I can't prevent it so I don't. I just stay away. That's life. If we wish to visit somewhere, we put up with the processes if we feel that it is worth it. If not, we don't go. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it which in many people's minds has ruined the Med and the Caribbean. That's cruising, which is what this newsgroup is all about. cheers Peter Hendra what is the law here. i was under the usumption that the US had no jusidiction out side there waters on any boat other than a US boat. you are saying that if i was in international waters or british water then i can be boarded by a US boat? I thought that amounted to piracy its self. Shaun Having the right to do it and doing it are two diff things. They've got big guns. We were 200 miles off the California coast heading south (so obviously no smuggling going on, unless you count importing cute women into Mexico g), we were overflown the USCG. They knew exactly where we were, and they came out to make sure we were who they thought we were (48' ketch). They did a couple of low passes while we waved and the guy in the cockpit got a good look at the women skinny dipping, then they moved on to another sailboat (we presume), since they were headed in that direction - crossed paths with her a couple of days previously. Personally, I felt good knowing they were around. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:47:14 +0800, shaun
wrote: Does any one here know what the true standing is in this matter Yes, the USCG can board you in international waters anywhere in the world, as can any other government. They maintain treaties with most countries which specifically allow this, and for the few remaining others they will detain you until permission is granted through diplomatic channels. USCGs primary interests are drug/people smuggling, fishing enforcement, and enforcement of trade/travel restrictions. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 16:16:11 +0800, shaun
wrote: snippity-snip what is the law here. i was under the usumption that the US had no jusidiction out side there waters on any boat other than a US boat. you are saying that if i was in international waters or british water then i can be boarded by a US boat? I thought that amounted to piracy its self. Shaun I believe that the US has agreements with many countries as regards mutual boarding rights of the other countries registered vessels. In the distant past Embasy permission used to be required to board a foreign boat. Navy people don't have the right to board you but Coast Guard officers do. US Navy ships on such duty carry Goast Guard officers to order the boarding and inspection. Mark E. Williams YMMV |
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