| Page 1 of 2 | 1 | 2 |
|
|
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Long time readers of this group may remember Jim Manzari from 7 or 8
years ago. A traditionalist and sound technical fellow, Jim had many a fervent discussion with Paul Kamen, aka Fishmeal, regarding design issues of offshore cruising boats. He and his wife appear to have fallen victim to notoriously 'sticky wicket' customs regulators down under. Hope they'll be able to move on soon. http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/manzaris.html |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Interesting situation.
After reading Jim's blog I was left with an uneasy feeling by the tone/ voice of the writer. My guess is he really ****ed off the custom agent. If Jim was as self righteous with the customs guy as he is in his writing it is clear why the situation went bad fast. So who defended their case? Please don't tell me Jim represented himself?!?!?! What is that old saying about, "a fool for a client..." Just a gut feeling. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
After hearing for years that OZ is heaven and the most family oriented place
on earth, most of what I hear now is bad. When I was flying, my internet pilot contacts down under were telling me how they destroyed their general aviation and air traffic control system to the point that many were turning in their licences. Everything that moves down there is venemous enough to kill you. Sounds like a good place to skip. Speaking of our Customs and flying, one of my flying club members had to divert from his airport of entry because of a thunderstorm and was fined five grand despite landing 20 minutes away at a larger airport of entry and immediately complying with all customs requirements (keeping his full bladder passengers in the aircraft until the agent finished his coffee break, etc.) He pointed out that the FAA would have taken his license if he had landed at the first airport. They said that was a different regulatory agency and no concern of theirs. He pointed out that he also could have died and they said that crashing and burning could be considered an alternative mode of compliance. Make that check payable to.... -- Roger Long |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Roger Long wrote:
After hearing for years that OZ is heaven and the most family oriented place on earth, most of what I hear now is bad. When I was flying, my internet pilot contacts down under were telling me how they destroyed their general aviation and air traffic control system to the point that many were turning in their licences. Everything that moves down there is venemous enough to kill you. Sounds like a good place to skip. Speaking of our Customs and flying, one of my flying club members had to divert from his airport of entry because of a thunderstorm and was fined five grand despite landing 20 minutes away at a larger airport of entry and immediately complying with all customs requirements (keeping his full bladder passengers in the aircraft until the agent finished his coffee break, etc.) He pointed out that the FAA would have taken his license if he had landed at the first airport. They said that was a different regulatory agency and no concern of theirs. He pointed out that he also could have died and they said that crashing and burning could be considered an alternative mode of compliance. Make that check payable to.... -- Roger Long I live in Austalia and have done so for 90% of my life. This country is still one of the nicest in the world............. As long as you can keep away from the bureaucracy! in the last ten years it has gone from yep that's cool to every one looking over there shoulders for the cops or some other local govenment rep. I have friends that import goods and they are 100% legit! way too scared of losing there home and every thing else to even complain when they are charged $4000 on top of dock fee's and import to unload a sea container by hand that they have to do on there own because the customs agents wants to pocket the money and will not hire the labour on the day. if you don't pay they hide the container down the back of the docks and you have to pay $90 per day for the container as rental while they shrug there shoulders and say sorry mate can't find it. This is all on top of the fee's that they state and quote. if you mention any thing the customs then demand that the container is fumigated and once again they charge you to do a job that you do your self. The system is so corrupt that they are not even scared of the police or any law at all.... I am now so ashamed of my country that i no longer recomend that friends come over and stay its just to much hassle......... On the other hand the average bloke/chick is great and people still smile and say hi even in perth. shaun getting ready to stand and fight the line is drawn in the sand the shells and bullets landing all about but still i stand quivering and shout This is our land it is what we are about this will not be a rout We will win out |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Bob wrote:
Interesting situation. After reading Jim's blog I was left with an uneasy feeling by the tone/ voice of the writer. My guess is he really ****ed off the custom agent. If Jim was as self righteous with the customs guy as he is in his writing it is clear why the situation went bad fast. So who defended their case? Please don't tell me Jim represented himself?!?!?! What is that old saying about, "a fool for a client..." Just a gut feeling. You must not have read about the other two cases--one against a dutch couple, and the other against a different american couple. If you browse around that link for a little bit, you'll get a different feeling about what is going on... and it stinks. Don W. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
"shaun" wrote in message ... I live in Austalia and have done so for 90% of my life. This country is still one of the nicest in the world............. As long as you can keep away from the bureaucracy! in the last ten years it has gone from yep that's cool to every one looking over there shoulders for the cops or some other local govenment rep. I have friends that import goods and they are 100% legit! way too scared of losing there home and every thing else to even complain when they are charged $4000 on top of dock fee's and import to unload a sea container by hand that they have to do on there own because the customs agents wants to pocket the money and will not hire the labour on the day. if you don't pay they hide the container down the back of the docks and you have to pay $90 per day for the container as rental while they shrug there shoulders and say sorry mate can't find it. This is all on top of the fee's that they state and quote. if you mention any thing the customs then demand that the container is fumigated and once again they charge you to do a job that you do your self. The system is so corrupt that they are not even scared of the police or any law at all.... I am now so ashamed of my country that i no longer recomend that friends come over and stay its just to much hassle......... On the other hand the average bloke/chick is great and people still smile and say hi even in perth. shaun This leaves me wondering, when did the US take over Austrailia? getting ready to stand and fight the line is drawn in the sand the shells and bullets landing all about but still i stand quivering and shout This is our land it is what we are about this will not be a rout We will win out |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 12, 6:42 am, Don W
wrote: Bob wrote: Interesting situation. You must not have read about the other two cases--one against a dutch couple, and the other against a different american couple. If you browse around that link for a little bit, you'll get a different feeling about what is going on... and it stinks. Don W. Wow..... Sounds as though things have really gone bad since I went mucking about that island. Maybe the Aussies have just made it to the 21st century and started taking on some of the wonderfull attributes of our own loved das Homeland Securtiy. Too bad. Was a good place. I hope anybody with other recent experinces will add to this discussion. Bewildered Bob |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Gogarty wrote:
In article , says... This leaves me wondering, when did the US take over Austrailia? When Howard became PM. Yep, Our Prime Minister is so far up George Dubbya's butt, all we can see is the soles of his shoes... |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Gogarty wrote:
Why? One wonders. Surely that's not what the average Ozzie wanted. New Zealanders seem to be more level headed about foreign entanglements. But then, they are quite different countries despite being lumped as The Antipodies or Anzacs. Not sure, but if in Australia they use the first-past-the-post electoral model, un-representative, un-Democratic anomalies can occur, such as we see in Canada where a dimwit Republican wannabe gets to be Prime Minister with 30-35% of the popular vote. Polls done by conservative newspapers show 70% of Canadians NOT in support of our soldiers being in Afghanistan fighting Bush's mythical "war on terror", yet our PM keeps us there. But whether this rightard swing in Australia explains a Customs regime that seems to be out of control is an open question. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 13, 9:36 am, the_bmac wrote:
Gogarty wrote: Why? One wonders. Surely that's not what the average Ozzie wanted. New Zealanders seem to be more level headed about foreign entanglements. But then, they are quite different countries despite being lumped as The Antipodies or Anzacs. Not sure, but if in Australia they use the first-past-the-post electoral model, un-representative, un-Democratic anomalies can occur, such as we see in Canada where a dimwit Republican wannabe gets to be Prime Minister with 30-35% of the popular vote. Polls done by conservative newspapers show 70% of Canadians NOT in support of our soldiers being in Afghanistan fighting Bush's mythical "war on terror", yet our PM keeps us there. Mythical war on terror? Tell that to the 3000+ killed in NYC by the Taliban, based in Afganstan. BTW 25 of the people killed on 9-11 were Canadian citizens, not that you seem to give a f*&k. These people are common criminals, heroin traders and murderers. The al-Queda and their Afgahn hosts the Taliban kill, tourture and maim the innocent to control 75% of the worlds heroin traffic. They do so under the guise of Islam. Islam is against terror, Islam is for understanding and termperance! These people headed by Osama bin Landen, the Taliban the al-Qaeda terrorist camps have held hostage a great religion for long enough! Now the truth is comming out about the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. Let us make sure that there are no more bin ladens! But whether this rightard swing in Australia explains a Customs regime that seems to be out of control is an open question. Right, they should just allow anyone, at any time, to sail in on a breeze. So what if they do not follow proper up to date custom procedures. It's not like a terrorist would attack them....now is it? Don't like it, don't go to OZ. Joe |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
wrote in message oups.com... These people are common criminals, heroin traders and murderers. The al-Queda and their Afgahn hosts the Taliban kill, tourture and maim the innocent to control 75% of the worlds heroin traffic. They do so under the guise of Islam. Exactly. They are criminals (not sure about the "common" part). Since when does a nation go to war to combat crime, however heinous? It is impossible to fight a "war on terror (sic)" or even a war on terrorism; terrorists are everywhere, and will strike targets of opportunity when they present themselves, and most of these people cannot be identified before they commit their particular crime. Should bin Laden be dealt with? Absolutely. But apparently he is worth more to the Powers that Be alive and free than dead. Look at all the power they have gained by his being "at large." |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
|
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 13, 10:14 am, "KLC Lewis" wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... These people are common criminals, heroin traders and murderers. The al-Queda and their Afgahn hosts the Taliban kill, tourture and maim the innocent to control 75% of the worlds heroin traffic. They do so under the guise of Islam. Exactly. They are criminals (not sure about the "common" part). Since when does a nation go to war to combat crime, however heinous? It is impossible to fight a "war on terror (sic)" or even a war on terrorism; terrorists are everywhere, and will strike targets of opportunity when they present themselves, and most of these people cannot be identified before they commit their particular crime. Wrong. Should bin Laden be dealt with? Absolutely. But apparently he is worth more to the Powers that Be alive and free than dead. Look at all the power they have gained by his being "at large." Yeah right, and 9-11 was an inside job, and M. Moore is your hero. Joe |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
wrote in message
ups.com... On Apr 13, 10:14 am, "KLC Lewis" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... These people are common criminals, heroin traders and murderers. The al-Queda and their Afgahn hosts the Taliban kill, tourture and maim the innocent to control 75% of the worlds heroin traffic. They do so under the guise of Islam. Exactly. They are criminals (not sure about the "common" part). Since when does a nation go to war to combat crime, however heinous? It is impossible to fight a "war on terror (sic)" or even a war on terrorism; terrorists are everywhere, and will strike targets of opportunity when they present themselves, and most of these people cannot be identified before they commit their particular crime. Wrong. Should bin Laden be dealt with? Absolutely. But apparently he is worth more to the Powers that Be alive and free than dead. Look at all the power they have gained by his being "at large." Yeah right, and 9-11 was an inside job, and M. Moore is your hero. Apparently, an administration, that mislead the country about a war of choice where 10s of 1000s have died needlessly and that continues to capriciously sacrifice the lives of our troops, that is incompetent and corrupt beyond belief, and that spends our money like a drunken sailor, is yours. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 13, 11:31 am, Harlan Lachman wrote:
In article .com, wrote: Mythical war on terror? SRC, you misread the post to which you were replying. Of course there is real terror focused against us. It kills real people. I did not miss read anything Harlan, here is the exact quote: " Polls done by conservative newspapers show 70% of Canadians NOT in support of our soldiers being in Afghanistan fighting Bush's mythical "war on terror", " Our current inept president is feeding more and more fuel on the misplaced anger against our country and likely more American lives will be lost directly as a result of terrorist activity engendered as a result of his policies. "We are engaged in a basic struggle," says Senator John McCain. "A struggle between humanity and inhumanity, between builders and destroyers. If fighting these people and preventing the export of their brand of radicalism and terror is not intrinsic to the national security and most cherished values of the United States, I don't know what is." What the poster was referring to was the activities of this administration having little to do with terrorism (other than perhaps feeding its fire). Tell that to the 25,000 troops in Afghanistan, including some 14,000 serving in the NATO-led force, which totals about 36,000 troops. You may be willing to bow down to terrorists but they are not. Our war in Iraq is over oil. Bull****, they do not have any measurable oil in Afghanistan, and the amount coming out of iran is very little on the world market. If we wanted to go to war over oil I can think of several other more profitable places to invade. The administration made it clear with its handouts to maintain oil fields and its recent insistence that Iran allow foreign multinational corporations to control its oil reserves. Iran does not have the infrastructure or equiptment to do the job. Until they have a stable govt more people in Iraq will profit by the oil getting to a being sold on the market. Lets hope the contracts "handouts" are given out according to the countries helping Iran the most. As far as electrical, water, and health we destroyed the lives of Iraquis making any sort of lasting peace problematic. We destroyed? **** just yeaterday an Al-Queida suicide bomber tried to destroy the newly ELECTED parlement, and they destroyed a major bridge in the country..Not the USA. I'm glad the Iraqi elected leaders are not as gulliable as you are. Iraqi lawmakers expressed outrage and resolve today in a rare session of parliament on the Muslim holy day, a day after a suicide bomber ripped through their cafeteria in a brazen attack inside Baghdad's U.S.-guarded Green Zone. A red and white bouquet sat in place of Mohammed Awad, a Sunni member of the moderate National Dialogue Front killed in Thursday's attack on the parliament cafeteria. Lawmakers ambled up to the podium to denounce the bombing, including one man with his arm in a sling and a woman wearing a neck brace. "The more they (terrorists) act, the more solid we become. When they take from us one martyr, we will offer more martyrs," Vice President Adil Abdul-Mahdi said. "The more they target our unity, the stronger our unity becomes." Sounds like a determined new govt to me. Our efforts in Afghanistan have resulted in the greatest upsurge in opium and related poppy product exports in such a short time in our lifetime. The war on drugs is another bait and switch (as the Iraq oil fiasco) creating a class of criminals, more fear (a staple of this administration's policies) and a distraction both in focus and use of funds against the real crimes and criminals in this country. Can we now get back to boating/cruising. A freedom you can enjoy, without worry. Freedoms nice huh? Joe Harlan -- To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"? |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
wrote in message ups.com... On Apr 13, 10:14 am, "KLC Lewis" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... These people are common criminals, heroin traders and murderers. The al-Queda and their Afgahn hosts the Taliban kill, tourture and maim the innocent to control 75% of the worlds heroin traffic. They do so under the guise of Islam. Exactly. They are criminals (not sure about the "common" part). Since when does a nation go to war to combat crime, however heinous? It is impossible to fight a "war on terror (sic)" or even a war on terrorism; terrorists are everywhere, and will strike targets of opportunity when they present themselves, and most of these people cannot be identified before they commit their particular crime. Wrong. Should bin Laden be dealt with? Absolutely. But apparently he is worth more to the Powers that Be alive and free than dead. Look at all the power they have gained by his being "at large." Yeah right, and 9-11 was an inside job, and M. Moore is your hero. Joe Wow. You totally defeated my arguments. Impressive. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 13, 3:32 pm, "KLC Lewis" wrote:
wrote in message ups.com... On Apr 13, 10:14 am, "KLC Lewis" wrote: wrote in message groups.com... These people are common criminals, heroin traders and murderers. The al-Queda and their Afgahn hosts the Taliban kill, tourture and maim the innocent to control 75% of the worlds heroin traffic. They do so under the guise of Islam. Exactly. They are criminals (not sure about the "common" part). Since when does a nation go to war to combat crime, however heinous? It is impossible to fight a "war on terror (sic)" or even a war on terrorism; terrorists are everywhere, and will strike targets of opportunity when they present themselves, and most of these people cannot be identified before they commit their particular crime. Wrong. Should bin Laden be dealt with? Absolutely. But apparently he is worth more to the Powers that Be alive and free than dead. Look at all the power they have gained by his being "at large." Yeah right, and 9-11 was an inside job, and M. Moore is your hero. Joe Wow. You totally defeated my arguments. Impressive.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - No doubt. Joe |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On 12 Apr 2007 08:20:07 -0700, "Bob" wrote:
On Apr 12, 6:42 am, Don W wrote: Bob wrote: Interesting situation. You must not have read about the other two cases--one against a dutch couple, and the other against a different american couple. If you browse around that link for a little bit, you'll get a different feeling about what is going on... and it stinks. Don W. Wow..... Sounds as though things have really gone bad since I went mucking about that island. Maybe the Aussies have just made it to the 21st century and started taking on some of the wonderfull attributes of our own loved das Homeland Securtiy. Too bad. Was a good place. I hope anybody with other recent experinces will add to this discussion. Bewildered Bob I have not read "Jim's Blog" - (where is it?) so I cannot comment. I also sometimes live in Australia (my wife and son presently do for his schooling) and have onbly had one bad experience - Brisbane Customs where I would advise anyone not to enter in. When we first arrived in Sydney from across the Tasman, the land of freedom, democracy and God's little corner of the world, we had to fill out a form declaring the value of our yacht and such removeable items as SSB radios etc. The borading Customs officer warned us twice to be careful what we put on the form as regards values as we may7 want to either import the yacht or sell it at a later date -- hence taxes. When we finally left Sydney sev eral years later ( the boat had stayed too long there but nobody cared even though they knew) the fellow in the Customs office warned us to avoid Brisbane Customs. We later found out why when we bought a luggage trolley from Westmarine and had to pay duty. I was hauled into the office and interrogated as to why I had avoided importing my boat - I was made to feel like a criminal by two Perry Mason wannabees. Apart from that, they are rather good. I have found that there is usually a way around officialdom and seeking their advice or asking for help usually brings out thye best inj them. As to when Australia became a territory of the USA - Mainly since LBJ and definitely when Deputy Sheriff Howard took over (Our Malaysian Prime Minister coined the phrase which fits well). He is often interviewed on television regarding Australia's reaction to world events. He usually responds along the lines of "I have spoken to Mr Bush by phone and ......." I don't think he realises that the US does not award knighthoods. Seriouisly though, in many ways Australia is attempting to be the US in the souithern hemisphere. It is almost at the Teddy Roosevelt era in many ways. It regards South east Asia as its sphere of influence and were quite annoyed that they had to sign away the right of pre-emptive strike in order to attend the last ASEAN conference as guests SEA people do not consider Australia as part of Asia but as another western nation despite Australia's politicians claims. unlike the US `though, Australia will remain the mine and the farm for a long time to come. Australians (I do have citizenship) may object, but that is how I see it. cheers Peter |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
"Peter Hendra" wrote in message ... On 12 Apr 2007 08:20:07 -0700, "Bob" wrote: As to when Australia became a territory of the USA - Mainly since LBJ and definitely when Deputy Sheriff Howard took over (Our Malaysian Prime Minister coined the phrase which fits well). He is often interviewed on television regarding Australia's reaction to world events. He usually responds along the lines of "I have spoken to Mr Bush by phone and ......." I don't think he realises that the US does not award knighthoods. Seriouisly though, in many ways Australia is attempting to be the US in the souithern hemisphere. It is almost at the Teddy Roosevelt era in many ways. It regards South east Asia as its sphere of influence and were quite annoyed that they had to sign away the right of pre-emptive strike in order to attend the last ASEAN conference as guests SEA people do not consider Australia as part of Asia but as another western nation despite Australia's politicians claims. unlike the US `though, Australia will remain the mine and the farm for a long time to come. Australians (I do have citizenship) may object, but that is how I see it. cheers Peter Peter, the "right of pre-emptive strike" is reserved, by divine right, to the United States of America. So mind your P's and Q's, mate, or your wallabies'll glow in the dark. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
"Peter Hendra" wrote in message ... snip... As to when Australia became a territory of the USA - Mainly since LBJ and definitely when Deputy Sheriff Howard took over (Our Malaysian Prime Minister coined the phrase which fits well). He is often interviewed on television regarding Australia's reaction to world events. He usually responds along the lines of "I have spoken to Mr Bush by phone and ......." I don't think he realises that the US does not award knighthoods. Seriouisly though, in many ways Australia is attempting to be the US in the souithern hemisphere. It is almost at the Teddy Roosevelt era in many ways. It regards South east Asia as its sphere of influence and were quite annoyed that they had to sign away the right of pre-emptive strike in order to attend the last ASEAN conference as guests SEA people do not consider Australia as part of Asia but as another western nation despite Australia's politicians claims. unlike the US `though, Australia will remain the mine and the farm for a long time to come. Australians (I do have citizenship) may object, but that is how I see it. cheers Peter You think you have it bad... Canada has the same problem and is stuck right next door. When we get rid of our Conservative PM things should improve. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:46:50 GMT, "Don White"
wrote: "Peter Hendra" wrote in message .. . snip... As to when Australia became a territory of the USA - Mainly since LBJ and definitely when Deputy Sheriff Howard took over (Our Malaysian Prime Minister coined the phrase which fits well). He is often interviewed on television regarding Australia's reaction to world events. He usually responds along the lines of "I have spoken to Mr Bush by phone and ......." I don't think he realises that the US does not award knighthoods. Seriouisly though, in many ways Australia is attempting to be the US in the souithern hemisphere. It is almost at the Teddy Roosevelt era in many ways. It regards South east Asia as its sphere of influence and were quite annoyed that they had to sign away the right of pre-emptive strike in order to attend the last ASEAN conference as guests SEA people do not consider Australia as part of Asia but as another western nation despite Australia's politicians claims. unlike the US `though, Australia will remain the mine and the farm for a long time to come. Australians (I do have citizenship) may object, but that is how I see it. cheers Peter You think you have it bad... Canada has the same problem and is stuck right next door. When we get rid of our Conservative PM things should improve. All of this is why I prefer to use my New Zealand passport for travelling. We are seen as peaceful and green and totally inoffensive (though some may consider that I am not included in the latter category). The US, who were extfremely annoyed at our 1980's antinuclear weapons stance do our PR for us at no cost to the New Zealand taxpayer. - "Xena" the warrior woman," Lord of the Rings", "The Last Samurai" to name a few. We are seen as pure and quaint, living amongst dense forests and snowclad mountains. We have even had a "most favoured nation" association with China, long before it opened to the West, largely on account of a seaman who founded a series of orphanages in the 1930's and stayed during the Japanese invasion and the Communist era though not becoming a communist - Rewi Alley. Apart from our 65 million sheep - we have also exported a lot of talent - me for one (I'm allowed a touch of vanity - my spouse is not reading this) - Ernest Rutherford, Colonel Pickering who once headed NASA as no Americans were apparently good enough at the time, and it is now proven that our Richard Pierce, a farmer, flew before the Wright brothers. Hamilton, another farmer, invented the jet boat, someone invented alerions (sp?) for aircraft and a simple post office clerk in Dunedin invented the now commonly used resealable paint can in the late 19th century. More NZ soldiers died per capita during WWII than any other nation on either side - yet we still scoff at waving the flag. These are only a few of the achievements of a nation of 3.5 million people and its 65 million sheep. The respect that this should engender from the rest of the world is probably why we seem to get a good reception when travelling about. By the way, we do have a high standard of English literacy despite a friend of mine once receiving a letter from the State University of Colorado in response to his application to attend a post graduate course there. It stated, rather kindly, that "we are sorry but we do not accept applications from students whose first language is not English" A lot of us have migrated across to Australia. When a reporter during a television interview with the then PM - Muldoon (an obnoxious little man with a divine aptitude for a barbed quick wit) asked him if he was concerned about the brain drain, he dryly responded with "That will raise the IQ level of both countries, won't it?" Got off the track I know, but I at least enjoyed writing it. cheers Peter |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Well. So it goes.
Thanks, Peter and several others, for some help in understanding the customs situation in Australia. It sounds as though several ports have some overzealous agents who remain a bit 'unchecked' under the current system, and that it extends further up the chain, relentlessly, once the swords have been drawn. Asking forgiveness and being ever so humble is important in such matters. Especially when dealing with diligent and serious people who so proudly, yet stoically, hammer their rubber stamps of authorization upon one's passports and ship's papers. I've never hesitated to show respect for these government employees' authority or to stroke their egos a bit. But, who really could know if this matter may have been handled differently. Three elderly cruising couples clearly represent no threat to anyone. A recent 'cruiser's notes' in the March issue of Latitude38.com was mute regarding a cruiser who arrived Australia this winter in the same port as Manzari landed. No mention of difficulties at all, although inbound weather problems caused delays which may have foiled their 7 to 10 day notice of arrival, if given when departing their last port of call. Whatever. Terrorism and the froth it tends to whip up within these brass- knuckled newsgroups aside . . . . .. . . it's unfortunate a couple of harmless innocents like the Manzaris have been forced to expend time and money so needlessly. Having met them in Switzerland eight years ago, we found them to be fine and capable people who intend to cruise until they become too infirm to continue. I suppose all this could be considered yet another pitfall that most anyone could fall into. Sometimes your number just comes up. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
|
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 14, 3:02 am, the_bmac wrote:
Don't like it, don't go to OZ. Okay, you don't seem too bright so I'll recap the thread for you. Nice people make mistakes and get reamed by Australian Customs and legal system. snip state-sponsored fear and paranoia you seem to think is justified. What a rube! I actually agreed with the rest of your rant but, REALITY CHECK: If the guy would've just admitted that he screwed up, he'd have gotten off with a hand slap. Instead he is STILL crying over injustice and trampled rights. Hey Dude, you are cruising around the world! That's a privilege, who the h*ll do you think you are? (Tyndale - Jas 4:2-3) Ye lust and have not. Ye envie and have indignacion and cannot obtayne. Ye fight and warre and have not because ye axe not. Ye axe and receave not, because ye axe a mysse: even to consume it apon youre volupteousnes [lusts, pleasures, concupiscences, ηδοναις, or greed]. Methinks the guy should get 1-5 lashes and an invitation to leave. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 13, 10:02 pm, the_bmac wrote:
wrote: On Apr 13, 9:36 am, the_bmac wrote: Not sure, but if in Australia they use the first-past-the-post electoral model, un-representative, un-Democratic anomalies can occur, such as we see in Canada where a dimwit Republican wannabe gets to be Prime Minister with 30-35% of the popular vote. Polls done by conservative newspapers show 70% of Canadians NOT in support of our soldiers being in Afghanistan fighting Bush's mythical "war on terror", yet our PM keeps us there. Mythical war on terror? Tell that to the 3000+ killed in NYC by the Taliban, based in Afganstan. BTW 25 of the people killed on 9-11 were Canadian citizens, not that you seem to give a f*&k. I've obviously struck a nerve here. At any rate, try not to be so dim in your responses. This "don't give a ****" crap spews straight out of your Ann Coulter handbook, and she's a dumb as a post. Angry little twit. The stupid kanook said the war on terror was a "mythical war". Got news for you douchbag..it's real. How do you think that makes you sound? About 100 times smarther than you. I think your certainty about just who is responsible for the walking chunks of human excrement who caused those aircraft to strike those buildings is premature. Ossama admitted his involvement, and planning of the mass murders. And BTW dumb ****, he aand his buddies murdered civilian's in many countries. Have a look penis lips: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqP1zkxtCew These people are common criminals, heroin traders and murderers. The al-Queda and their Afgahn hosts the Taliban kill, tourture and maim the innocent to control 75% of the worlds heroin traffic. They do so under the guise of Islam. Islam is against terror, Islam is for understanding and termperance! These people headed by Osama bin Landen, the Taliban the al-Qaeda terrorist camps have held hostage a great religion for long enough! Now the truth is comming out about the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. Let us make sure that there are no more bin ladens! Interesting, creative, passionate, but sadly irrelevant; which brings us to the funny part. What's wrong asshole, you worried your smack supply might dwindle? ruth? Some of you Americans have a memory that only goes back about 5.5 years. You perhaps don't know, or would like to forget; which US Government agency funded and trained Bin Laden and the Mujahideen in their fight against the USSR in the 80's; which US Government agencies and officials promised Bin Laden and the Mujahideen all manner of financial aid and support as reward for fighting against the Russians at that time and which US government agencies and officials abandoned Bin Laden and the Yo dumb ****, if you are going to cut and paste other peoples words you should give them credit. Mujahideen like they were bags of dog **** after the Russians finally gave up and left Afghanistan. Who do you think created these monsters, Einstein? Just who do you think are al-Qaeda and the Taliban? They used to be your allies ya ****in maroon. Oh so you think thats a good excuse to murder 3000+ civilians at work..Got ya. You sorry hunk of ****, it's clear you stand on the side of a pack of murdering cowards. So what if they were allies in taking out Russians, I guess you see that as a good reason to murder office workers huh? To bad one of the 25 canooks killed was not your brother. BTW, why were Bin Laden family members allowed to fly out of the US in the days after Sept. 11 when any good ol' American boy couldn't even do a run-up in a C-152? Hey stupid ****...read the 9-11 report and quit sucking Michelle Moores dick. 11. The Saudis left the U.S. only after air travel was opened for the general public. 12. According to Richard Clarke and the September 11 Commission, Clarke personally approved the Saudi departures, and the decision went no higher in the chain of command. 13. Moore lied to a TV reporter in claiming that Fahrenheit discloses Clarke's decision to the audience. Clarke called Saudi exit material in Fahrenheit a "mistake" by Moore. 14. Contrary to what Fahrenheit claims, the September 11 Commission found that many Saudis were asked "detailed questions" before being allowed to leave. But whether this rightard swing in Australia explains a Customs regime that seems to be out of control is an open question. Right, they should just allow anyone, at any time, to sail in on a breeze. So what if they do not follow proper up to date custom procedures. It's not like a terrorist would attack them....now is it? Straw man, but nice try. Do any of those people cited in those articles look like terrorists to you? Tell me scrotum jaw, just what does a terrorist look like? Sounds like you are a racist, just hassle the rag heads huh? Do the actions of the Customs officials in these stories sound like rational behaviour to you? Of course given that you seem as happy as Larry to have had your constitutional rights violated by the idiot Bush, perhaps fascist behaviour such as has been described has become normal for you. After all, you're safe, yes? Is it facist for a country to protect in citizens and soventry? and you're on good terms with your local librarian, yes? But you probably only take out the "good" books, yes? Nothing to worry about there, and who cares if the NSA listens to your cellphone calls, yes? You're a good American with nothing to hide, yes? Don't like it, don't go to OZ. Okay, you don't seem too bright so I'll recap the thread for you. Nice people make mistakes and get reamed by Australian Customs and legal system. Some Australians post their discomfort and shame over these circumstances, noting a change since a certain right-wing politico dillhole has come to power. The point is, stupid, that these sailors have been abused by an Australian system whose officials have acted with the discretionary skill of turnips, now seemingly motivated by the same state-sponsored fear and paranoia you seem to think is justified. According to people begging for money, to get them out of the problem they got themselves into. A smart sailor knows not to deal with some local yokle when visiting another country. The smart thing to do is visit the embassy of that country before entering their waters and having the up to date requirements. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I can see how a mis-informed, bone headed stupid **** like you can relate to someone dumb enough to enter another country without proper permission. What a rube! What a cock sucking, terriorist loving, racist, stupid faggot you are. Joe |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
|
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 14, 10:34 am, the_bmac wrote:
wrote a bunch of frothy dreck which I: snipped whereupon he concluded with the stunningly eloquent What a cock sucking, terriorist loving, racist, stupid faggot you are. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were retarded. Nevermind. Seems you are the retard, quoting M. Moores propaganda over the 9-11 commission. Whats wrong looser? Can not address any of the stupid **** you posted? Nevermind is right, you never had a mind to use..It's crystal clear. You racist faggot. Joe |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
wrote in message
oups.com... On Apr 14, 10:34 am, the_bmac wrote: wrote a bunch of frothy dreck which I: snipped whereupon he concluded with the stunningly eloquent What a cock sucking, terriorist loving, racist, stupid faggot you are. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were retarded. Nevermind. Seems you are the retard, quoting M. Moores propaganda over the 9-11 commission. Whats wrong looser? Can not address any of the stupid **** you posted? Nevermind is right, you never had a mind to use..It's crystal clear. You racist faggot. Joe Joe, what are you going to do now that Imus is off the air? g -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 14, 12:17 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 14, 10:34 am, the_bmac wrote: wrote a bunch of frothy dreck which I: snipped whereupon he concluded with the stunningly eloquent What a cock sucking, terriorist loving, racist, stupid faggot you are. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were retarded. Nevermind. Seems you are the retard, quoting M. Moores propaganda over the 9-11 commission. Whats wrong looser? Can not address any of the stupid **** you posted? Nevermind is right, you never had a mind to use..It's crystal clear. You racist faggot. Joe Joe, what are you going to do now that Imus is off the air? g -- "j" ganz - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Jon, I've never heard of Imus before his latest racist remarks. What do you do now that Air America is as bankrupt in money as Al Frankin was in integrity? Joe |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 14, 12:24 am, "tlindly" wrote:
I actually agreed with the rest of your rant but, REALITY CHECK: If the guy would've just admitted that he screwed up, he'd have gotten off with a hand slap. Instead he is STILL crying over injustice and trampled rights. Hey Dude, you are cruising around the world! That's a privilege, who the ....... Hi: I agree with your post. After reading the poor victim's blog again I once more came to the same conclusion. He sounds like one of those "Don't Tread on Me" types who sail where he wants, when he wants, and how he wants and aint no body gonna tell me I cant... because I'm really smart and I know my rights! TRY THIS STORY Last Friday I was walking back to my motel room after four hours of drinking under my favorite bridge. I was DRUNK, no two ways about it. (Yes, I like to drink alone) This is in a small commercial fishing/ tourist town with a population about 12,000. As I go walking along the bayfront street at 1130 PM I crossed the street at 45 degrees (jaywalked). Now, at that time of night in that part of town the place is deserted. The next thing I know a cop accelerates 75 yards down the street probable reaching 50 mph in a 20mph zone, slams on the breaks putting his car into a 8' skid, jumps out hand on gun and orders me to stop. Of course in his best command scream! He tells me I was "screening" him, tells me he "smells alcohol" demands my drivers license, and then tells me I am going to jail cause I was "screening" and eluding an officer. The next thing I know two more cop cars show up with in 3 min. How would you handle that situation??????? Im just minding my own business walking along a quiet street at 1130 PM when I end up surrounded by 3 cops one with hand on weapon ready to kill me cause I crossed a street. My choices were many as were the many possible outcomes. Personally I did not want to be shot, get beat down and arrested for disorderly conduct or resisting arrest. So what does my experience have in common with mister man boobs getting the royal shaft in Australia?????? Glad I aint In Jail Bob PS I am also the guy who posted here last year that I do not believe rogue/sneaker waves exist. They are just events mariners face when at sea. Do you see a consistent belief here? You should. In other words, **** happens. How we prepare and respond to events will determine the outcome. I could have blamed the cops or those big wave events and in both cases been beat down. But at least in both cases I could have claimed I was the victim..... blamed the cops for being unjust or blamed those terrible sneaker waves that came out of nowhere and sunk my boat. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
wrote in message
oups.com... On Apr 14, 12:17 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 14, 10:34 am, the_bmac wrote: wrote a bunch of frothy dreck which I: snipped whereupon he concluded with the stunningly eloquent What a cock sucking, terriorist loving, racist, stupid faggot you are. I'm sorry. I didn't realize you were retarded. Nevermind. Seems you are the retard, quoting M. Moores propaganda over the 9-11 commission. Whats wrong looser? Can not address any of the stupid **** you posted? Nevermind is right, you never had a mind to use..It's crystal clear. You racist faggot. Joe Joe, what are you going to do now that Imus is off the air? g -- "j" ganz - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Jon, I've never heard of Imus before his latest racist remarks. What do you do now that Air America is as bankrupt in money as Al Frankin was in integrity? I guess I'll have to tune in an see if they put down minorities and women. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:17:27 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote: In all the countries we have visited so far, we have had very few problems with officialdom. I suspect, from listening to others stories, that some people display an "attitude problem" when in foreign lands. I would probably give them a hard time too. If one reads the accounts of the exorbitant Australian fines, and Australian requirements for entry as compared to other nations, Australia certainly looks like a place to avoid. Every indication in these cruisers' complaints also point to a rigid, unsympathetic crowd of goons running the maritime enforcement and judiciary agencies. Levying fines of many thousands of dollars against old toothless people who took reasonable notification measures upon entry and who mistakenly assumed the Aussies were as "normal" as other countries speaks very poorly of those agencies. These sailors were not neophytes - or terrorists. An Aussie magistrate whose boat was set upon by "legal" goons was as equally disturbed as the foreigners. There is no way to read these accounts and not come away with an unpleasant taste. You noted the reliance modern sailors place upon electronic devices. Legally entering Australia appears to demand internet access aboard, since Australian consulates are providing outdated rules, which can in any case capriciously change while one is at sea. Since I have a son who lives in Sydney, I had entertained buying and sailing a Mac 26M there for a visit. After reading of the troubles in those waters, that plan is now on hold. Perhaps sailing to NZ and flying to Sydney from there would be a better approach, but to be blunt, I am now sorely disappointed with Australia and have no desire to visit there at all. --Vic |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:11:25 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote: After reading of the troubles in those waters, that plan is now on hold. Perhaps sailing to NZ and flying to Sydney from there would be a better approach, but to be blunt, I am now sorely disappointed with Australia and have no desire to visit there at all. --Vic Vic, The verse from the Bible comes to mind about taking the beam from one's own eye before taking the mote from another's. In Spain our family went through the lengthy and expensive process of applying for US Visas as we had intended sailing up the eastern seaboard of the US. If we had flown there we would have been part of the Visa waver system. After talking with several non-American yachts(persons) who had visited the US, and in investigating the requirements of officialdom with regard to a foreign yacht visiting your country, we, with much regret, decided against it. You probably know nothing of these restrictions as they do not affect you. I, who hold Australian citizenship as well as my other two, have not seen fit to date to burst into a tirade of criticism against US officialdom and its seemingly pathetic pettiness with its rules of entry and travel within America by foreign yacht that are far more restictive and onerous that Australia has in place. I merely accept it and change my plans. Railing against the rules will not change them. Perhaps that is why I do not have high blood pressure. Dissappointed as we are, we have decided that if we wish to visit the places we have always wanted to go, such as the Smithsonian Museums etc, then we will have to arrive by air and travel by car even though we will have to suffer the indignities of your immigration and airtravel processes where ordinary people are treated as potential criminals and verbally abused at your airports (I have flown through the States twice in the past year). Incidentally, to see an elderly American lady yelled at by some uncouth thug of a security person at LA airport "I said - take off your jacket" when going through security, frankly made my blood boil. To my shame, being a long time coward, I did not object. I can burst into print on my annoyance at radio broadcasts on VHF when sailing up the Red Sea in international waters - "This is US task force xxx. Any vessel approaching within two miles is likely to be fired upon:" and having to alter course under a difficult sail into the wind - bloody cheek. Or about a helicopter gunship hovering over my masthead for two full minutes and not responding to my VHF. Have you any idea just how intimidating that is, especially to a child? Where were they in the piracy zone further east when a British yacht got stripped two weeks before we went through and a group of five were chased and fired upon? The only response was from a French warship. I could get angry at the right the US Coastguard claim of being able to board and search, without any financial recompence for damage, my New Zealand flagged yacht anywhere in the Caribbean. I can't prevent it so I don't. I just stay away. That's life. If we wish to visit somewhere, we put up with the processes if we feel that it is worth it. If not, we don't go. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it which in many people's minds has ruined the Med and the Caribbean. That's cruising, which is what this newsgroup is all about. cheers Peter Hendra |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:14:02 -0400, Peter Hendra
wrote: On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:11:25 -0500, Vic Smith wrote: After reading of the troubles in those waters, that plan is now on hold. Perhaps sailing to NZ and flying to Sydney from there would be a better approach, but to be blunt, I am now sorely disappointed with Australia and have no desire to visit there at all. --Vic Vic, The verse from the Bible comes to mind about taking the beam from one's own eye before taking the mote from another's. In Spain our family went through the lengthy and expensive process of applying for US Visas as we had intended sailing up the eastern seaboard of the US. If we had flown there we would have been part of the Visa waver system. After talking with several non-American yachts(persons) who had visited the US, and in investigating the requirements of officialdom with regard to a foreign yacht visiting your country, we, with much regret, decided against it. You probably know nothing of these restrictions as they do not affect you. You're quite right. My readings of foreigners cruising here are of Canadians exclusively. They seem little bothered by officialdom, but Canadians may be a special case. Your perspective is valuable here, as a non-NA resident. Having said that, and not attempting to defend whatever restrictions the Americans have, you will note that the folks who had the Australian problem with entry didn't suddenly materialize there. They had ports of call all over the world, and never got socked for thousands of dollars for ultimately harmless infractions, and in fact noted no problem elsewhere. If you read the accounts you will see that. I have no problem with laws, but if their application seems unreasonable and arbitrary I want no part of it. If the laws are unwieldy and just "too much work" that is another matter, and another choice to make. I, who hold Australian citizenship as well as my other two, have not seen fit to date to burst into a tirade of criticism against US officialdom and its seemingly pathetic pettiness with its rules of entry and travel within America by foreign yacht that are far more restictive and onerous that Australia has in place. I merely accept it and change my plans. Railing against the rules will not change them. Perhaps that is why I do not have high blood pressure. Nor do I (-: I would like for you to give us a brief lesson on those rules and why you find them onerous - for our edification. Dissappointed as we are, we have decided that if we wish to visit the places we have always wanted to go, such as the Smithsonian Museums etc, then we will have to arrive by air and travel by car even though we will have to suffer the indignities of your immigration and airtravel processes where ordinary people are treated as potential criminals and verbally abused at your airports (I have flown through the States twice in the past year). Incidentally, to see an elderly American lady yelled at by some uncouth thug of a security person at LA airport "I said - take off your jacket" when going through security, frankly made my blood boil. To my shame, being a long time coward, I did not object. I've heard of such conduct, and other stupidities, but since I don't fly it hasn't affected me. Flyers must take action there, or continue being sheep. I can burst into print on my annoyance at radio broadcasts on VHF when sailing up the Red Sea in international waters - "This is US task force xxx. Any vessel approaching within two miles is likely to be fired upon:" and having to alter course under a difficult sail into the wind - bloody cheek. Or about a helicopter gunship hovering over my masthead for two full minutes and not responding to my VHF. Have you any idea just how intimidating that is, especially to a child? War zones are a different matter entirely, and a different problem. Where were they in the piracy zone further east when a British yacht got stripped two weeks before we went through and a group of five were chased and fired upon? The only response was from a French warship. If you ever entertained the idea that any military represents competence, you have been disabused of that notion. I could get angry at the right the US Coastguard claim of being able to board and search, without any financial recompence for damage, my New Zealand flagged yacht anywhere in the Caribbean. I can't prevent it so I don't. I just stay away. That is a different matter also, and while you may dislike it, I look at it differently than being stood up before a Australian magistrate and fined many thousands of dollars for essentially Catch-22 violations. These fines really smack of the Georgia highway speedtraps, but with a vengeance. In case you haven't actually read of the goings-ons, here is the original link: http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/dangerous.html Following other links will give a fuller picture. Especially egregious is the unmarked police "inspection" of the Aussie magistrate's boat. While it didn't cost him anything monetarily, it is fairly chilling. That's life. If we wish to visit somewhere, we put up with the processes if we feel that it is worth it. If not, we don't go. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it which in many people's minds has ruined the Med and the Caribbean. That's cruising, which is what this newsgroup is all about. Exactly, and I feel you have much to teach us on that subject. --Vic |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
Believe me Peter, there are plenty of Amricans who are well aware of just
what you are talking about. I want to sail foreign for the lightness of feeling away from the opressive facisim that is creeping into every aspect of life in a country that I truely love. My first though when reading the original post was, "Oh, my God, the Aussies are acting just just like American officials!" At some point, sailing to foreign ports probably won't be an option for me because the government computer robots will hit some key words in my emails and newsgroup posts and I'll be put on a no-fly no-departure list "just in case". "It's our freedons the terrorists hate." Yeah, right. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
wrote in message oups.com... (a lot of vile vitriol, snipped) Plonk |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
"Bob" wrote in message oups.com... Hi: I agree with your post. After reading the poor victim's blog again I once more came to the same conclusion. He sounds like one of those "Don't Tread on Me" types who sail where he wants, when he wants, and how he wants and aint no body gonna tell me I cant... because I'm really smart and I know my rights! TRY THIS STORY Last Friday I was walking back to my motel room after four hours of drinking under my favorite bridge. I was DRUNK, no two ways about it. (Yes, I like to drink alone) This is in a small commercial fishing/ tourist town with a population about 12,000. As I go walking along the bayfront street at 1130 PM I crossed the street at 45 degrees (jaywalked). Now, at that time of night in that part of town the place is deserted. The next thing I know a cop accelerates 75 yards down the street probable reaching 50 mph in a 20mph zone, slams on the breaks putting his car into a 8' skid, jumps out hand on gun and orders me to stop. Of course in his best command scream! He tells me I was "screening" him, tells me he "smells alcohol" demands my drivers license, and then tells me I am going to jail cause I was "screening" and eluding an officer. The next thing I know two more cop cars show up with in 3 min. How would you handle that situation??????? Im just minding my own business walking along a quiet street at 1130 PM when I end up surrounded by 3 cops one with hand on weapon ready to kill me cause I crossed a street. My choices were many as were the many possible outcomes. Personally I did not want to be shot, get beat down and arrested for disorderly conduct or resisting arrest. So what does my experience have in common with mister man boobs getting the royal shaft in Australia?????? Glad I aint In Jail Bob PS I am also the guy who posted here last year that I do not believe rogue/sneaker waves exist. They are just events mariners face when at sea. Do you see a consistent belief here? You should. In other words, **** happens. How we prepare and respond to events will determine the outcome. I could have blamed the cops or those big wave events and in both cases been beat down. But at least in both cases I could have claimed I was the victim..... blamed the cops for being unjust or blamed those terrible sneaker waves that came out of nowhere and sunk my boat. So Bob, what's the moral of your story? You appear to saying, "When the Government gives you ****, smile and thank them, then take a great big bite. Sorry, but that is NOT what those who once made America great did, or would do today. But now, eating Government **** sandwiches is equated with Patriotism. Makes me well and truly sick. |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Apr 14, 5:18 pm, "Roger Long" wrote:
Believe me Peter, there are plenty of Amricans who are well aware of just what you are talking about. I want to sail foreign for the lightness of feeling away from the opressive facisim that is creeping into every aspect of life in a country that I truely love. Good lord Roger...Please go. While you're out there spend a bit of time in Cuba, Cambodia, Haiti, China, El Salvador, N. Korea, Russia, oh and my favorite Nicaragua,,Timor, and the UAE and several fine African countries. Spend some time there Roger. Some how I suspect you will change your tune of what real opression is. My first though when reading the original post was, "Oh, my God, the Aussies are acting just just like American officials! At some point, sailing to foreign ports probably won't be an option for me because the government computer robots will hit some key words in my emails and newsgroup posts and I'll be put on a no-fly no-departure list "just in case". "It's our freedons the terrorists hate." Yeah, right. Is it Roger? In nearly all cases, the jihadi terrorists have a patently self- evident ambition: to establish a world dominated by Muslims, Islam, and Islamic law, the Shari'a. Thier goal is the extension of the Islamic territory across the globe, and the establishment of a worldwide 'caliphate' founded on Shari'a law." Terrorists openly declare this goal. The Islamists who assassinated Anwar el-Sadat in 1981 decorated their holding cages with banners proclaiming the "caliphate or death." A biography of one of the most influential Islamist thinkers of recent times and an influence on Osama bin Laden, Abdullah Azzam declares that his life "revolved around a single goal, namely the establishment of Allah's Rule on earth" and restoring the caliphate. Bin Laden himself spoke of ensuring that "the pious caliphate will start from Afghanistan." His chief deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, also dreamed of re-establishing the caliphate, for then, he wrote, "history would make a new turn, God willing, in the opposite direction against the empire of the United States and the world's Jewish government." Another Al-Qaeda leader, Fazlur Rehman Khalil, publishes a magazine that has declared "Due to the blessings of jihad, America's countdown has begun. It will declare defeat soon," to be followed by the creation of a caliphate. Or, as Mohammed Bouyeri wrote in the note he attached to the corpse of Theo van Gogh, the Dutch filmmaker he had just assassinated, "Islam will be victorious through the blood of martyrs who spread its light in every dark corner of this earth." Interestingly, van Gogh's murderer was frustrated by the mistaken motives attributed to him, insisting at his trial: "I did what I did purely out of my beliefs. I want you to know that I acted out of conviction and not that I took his life because he was Dutch or because I was Moroccan and felt insulted." Although terrorists state their jihadi motives loudly and clearly, Westerners and Muslims alike too often fail to hear them. Islamic organizations, Canadian author Irshad Manji observes, pretend that "Islam is an innocent bystander in today's terrorism." What the terrorists want is abundantly clear. It requires monumental denial not to acknowledge it, but you Roger have risen to the challenge. Joe |
Jim Manzari - Cruisers Snared in Australia
On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 18:02:32 -0700, steelredcloud wrote:
snip Your other fan was wrong. You're not retarded, you're just a ****ing idiot. *plonk* |
| All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:54 AM. |
|
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 BoatBanter.com