Need some info from some wood finishing experts. I am refinishing a few
pieces of teak trim that had been finished with *something*, and
unfortunately I cannot get Pearson Composites to give me any clues as
what it really was. They first told me that it was Sherwin Williams
varnish, but that company could find nothing in their inventory that
matched Pearson's description, and their marine division makes only
paint for big/military ships. After a lot of back and forth, Pearson
told me that a good substitute would be Interlux #60 varnish. Turns out
that #60 is something called "polyurethane varnish". That name of course
is nonsense, it is just poly that resembles varnish. So now after doing
a little research I find out #60 used to be regular varnish up until 2
or 3 years ago. So did Pearson use varnish, or poly? The final piece of
info dragged out of them is that all the finishes they use are *indoor*
only, and these pieces of wood are exposed to the sun (they run around
the companionway) and got all ratty.
Since they won't fess up and I still need to refinsh, what would be
some recommendations? I need to match as best I can the rest of the
interior, and yet it needs better protection from exposure. Can straight
spar-type varnish be used on wood previously poly'd but sanded? Can you
varnish over a few new coats of poly? And if anyone knows, what finishes
might meet my needs AND be a close color match with Interlux 60, and
hold up well like a good UV varnish? Of course, relative ease of future
upkeep and refinishing is important which is why I would 'prefer'
varnish vs. poly if possible - poly is a PITA to remove adequately for
refinishing.

Thanks,

Red

Thanks Ray and Lew for the responses. The problem is that the teak is
part of a friend's almost new (2 seasons old) boat, and he was looking
forward to restoring the wood to match the rest of the trim that borders
up against it. The wood is actually on the inside of the boat, but it is
exposed to the elements due to its position around the companionway. The
wood and finish bleached and deteriorated to a yellowish/whitish, gritty
crappy look around the edges where directly exposed. If it were my boat,
I'd use the best UV varnish and be done with it, but since its an
expensive boat and its new, he feels dissapointed and angry (I think
rightly so) with Pearson for a using crappy interior finish on an
obstensively exterior surface, and although he's a realist, he wants his
boat to stay looking new as long as practical.
My problem with this is that I will be the one to have to refinish it
again, so I want the best protection with ease of long-term upkeep (and
that rules out hard finishes), and he wants a color match. I've sanded
down to bare wood, but I can tell there is depth of penetration by the
old finish into the grain of the wood, but I cannot sand any deeper
without potential damage to the shape.
So my question is, can I varnish over wood that has previously been
poly'd (again, that's a guess that the finish is poly), and will it hold
up as well as varnish over new bare wood?
Thanks Ray for the name of that book, I will look for it.
Thanks again,
Red

Red wrote:
Need some info from some wood finishing experts. I am refinishing a
few
pieces of teak trim that had been finished with *something*, and
unfortunately I cannot get Pearson Composites to give me any clues as
what it really was.
snip

Certainly no finishing expert; however, have never found anything that
was sold to protect teak on a boat that was worth the price of admission.

As a result, have learned to like my teak au natural which may not be
to your liking.

One suggestion.

Clean teak then COMPLETELY seal with 4-5 coats (1/day max) of epoxy
sanding lightly between coats.

You must totally seal the teak or it will fail early.

Finally, seal the epoxy with a good marine poly that contains UV
inhibitors which are required to protect the epoxy.

When you get a poly scratch, repair it before the epoxy gets damaged.

Have fun.

Lew

Duh, there are lots of polyurethane varnishes out there. Since that
seems to be what is on your boat, stick with it. If you want to change
to spar varnish (and why would you?) sand down to bare wood and put on
a minimum of 8 coats, letting them dry and lightly sanding in between.
Personally, I use Honey Teak and love it. A bit of work to put on, but
very durable and only requires a maintenance coat or two of their
clear every year.

Keith penned:
"Duh, there are lots of polyurethane varnishes out there. Since that
seems to be what is on your boat, stick with it. If you want to change
to spar varnish (and why would you?) sand down to bare wood and put on
a minimum of 8 coats, letting them dry and lightly sanding in between.
Personally, I use Honey Teak and love it. A bit of work to put on, but
very durable and only requires a maintenance coat or two of their
clear every year."

Keith,
Varnish is varnish, but poly is poly. Varnish can be had with UV
inhibitors, but indoor poly cannot. So far I haven't found any poly that
would match the original color and texture (satin) and have UV
protection. The exposed teak had indoor poly on it. It caused a nasty
white-ish/yellow-ish crusty look and feel to the wood that was exposed
(less than 2 seasons in the N. East). As I've said, I want to be able to
protect the wood, AND match the color of the original if possible. Poly
is a major PITA to keep up when weathered. Varnish, like you've pointed
out is comparatively fairly easy and with care lasts - and can be
restored much easier than poly ever could when damaged. What I wanted to
know was if I could put varnish over wood that has been previously
poly'd, or would it have adhesion or other issues down the road.
Thanks,
Red

You're just arguing semantics. When you say "poly" to me, that means
polyethylene, polypropylene, etc. "Poly" by itself really means
nothing, except some unspecified polymer.

Anyway, if there is a polyurethane finish on there now, you should
sand it completely off before switching to "regular" varnish.

Oh yea, and if you want to really learn about "varnish", read up at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varnish
You'll want to decide which of the following types of "varnish" you
need:
2.1 Violin
2.2 Resin
2.3 Shellac
2.4 Alkyd
2.5 Spar Varnish
2.6 Drying Oils
2.7 Polyurethane
2.8 Lacquer
2.9 Acrylic
2.10 Two-Part

You're welcome.

Keith said:
"You're just arguing semantics. When you say "poly" to me, that means
polyethylene, polypropylene, etc. "Poly" by itself really means
nothing, except some unspecified polymer."
....and also some useful info.

Indoor Polyurethane. Never heard of the other two used for wood finishes.
I wasn't really arguing semantics, just trying to learn. Thanks for the
useful info and link - I am going to read it tonight.

Red

Red wrote:

Thanks for the
useful info and link - I am going to read it tonight.


Get a Jamestown Distributors catalog.

Contains some skinny you may find useful.

Lew

you could buy this book also,
http://www.amazon.com/Brightwork-Fin...5602499&sr=1-2
Amazon.com: Brightwork: The Art of Finishing Wood: Books: Rebecca Wittman

For anyone interested,
I looked into the book Brightwork, The Art of Finishing Wood and found a
couple of reviews by wood finishing professionals to be highly critical
of the book, and I've talked to a couple of guys who do refinishing on
boats and they weren't impressed by it either. They said there was some
good info in it, but also a lot of not so good info. Also the book
apparently addresses the issue mainly from the perspective of
refinishing in the NW U.S (Seattle) where it is mainly damp and cool.
I'm looking for a copy I can peruse before I decide for myself if I want
one. I ordered Flexnor's book, but it hasn't arrived yet. Unfortunately
my library system has neither book.

I've been experimenting with Petit's Captain's varnish with fair
results, but a few problems. Part of it may be the space I'm working in
- my basement is about 60 degrees and hovers between roughly 30-40%
humidity.

The varnish on the sides of the piece I'm working on tended to sag a
little, and also tends to gather in a bead along the bottom edge of the
wood which does not dry even after 2-3 days. Also, it seems difficult to
paint it on without getting a lot of tiny bubbles. So I've tried a few
solutions that seem to be working, although I do not know about the
long-term consequences if any.

1. Several painters recommended using "Badger hair" brushes. I cannot
find anyone in paint stores in my area who has ever heard of those, so I
went with the backup plan - China bristle. This bristle makes a much
better flow than the brush I was using, and fewer and smaller bubbles. I
have no idea what China bristle is made from, but I just can't imagine
anyone trying to shave a Badger!

2. I added a touch of Marine Penetrol to the varnish - what an amazing
difference! The varnish flows so much better, it allows for a slightly
thinner coat which does not tend to sag, has a smooth flow and a smooth,
even-joining of the finish when cutting in to a previously applied wet
area, and the very few bubbles that are formed from brushing just
dissapear on their own. It takes a lot of gentle stirring to get even
that tiny amount of the Penetrol to mix completely with the varnish, but
unlike stirring straight varnish - no bubbles seem to be formed in the mix!

3. I was still having trouble with getting the varnish to dry enough
to recoat over the course of 16-18 hours. I talked to the *Go-To Guy* at
a local paint store and he said I could try Japan Drier. A tiny bit of
that made the difference, now the varnish is drying enough to put on a
next coat in 12 hours. Like Penetrol, it also tends to take a lot of
stirring to get it to blend completely with the varnish. The color of
this dryer is a rust brown, so I don't know if it would be a good choice
for really clear coatings. But after mixing the small amount I used in
this *traditional amber* varnish I didn't detect any change in color or
hue from the original appearance of the varnish. The guy at the paint
store said the newer high UV protection coatings tend to be low in
drying VOC's as compared to the dryer content in non-UV protected
coatings so they have a lot of drying related issues.

If anyone has any helpful comments or recommendations I'm all ears...
Red