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The Joys of Boating
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The Joys of Boating
As I do extensive reading in trying to select what boat will suit me
best, I realize just how much fun boating is. And I haven't even left the basement! Right now I'm leaning toward the MacGregor 26M. Might be new, might be used. It's usually called a "motor sailor" It's a high volume boat, inexpensive, and generally frowned upon by the "high speed" sailing crowd. When under sail it doesn't perform as well as dedicated sailboats, though no single keel sailboat of similar size is exactly a speed demon. Some of the Mac's sailing performance deficit is inherent in its dual purpose design, and some appears to be because those who buy this Mac are not hard core sailors, and don't lend much effort to getting the most of its sailing capabilities. Everybody has different preferences in what they want from a boat, and I'm laying out some of mine here. They might change when I get more experience, and they are in the end a balancing act, as always. -- Sailing area. The boat will be used exclusively to cruise the west coast of Florida, from the panhandle to the Keys. -- Purpose. Slow cruising and fishing. Hook swinging in shallow, sheltered areas, exploring islands. Shallow draft (+-18") is essential for this, and I won't bend here. I don't dinghy. Had enough dinghying/whaleboating when I was in the navy. On the fishing side it looks like the Mac cockpit is small, and freeboard all around is high, so it's sure not the best fishing platform, but I could fish off a jetski, so it's not a deal killer. Cruising might be a month out from home port, and I'll cover that under other categories. Might get some subjects confused in a category, but I'll do my best to keep organized. -- Economy. My purchase/equip budget is @30k. But that's if ongoing costs aren't going to eat me up. The Mac is trailerable, so when not in use it can be stored at relatively low cost. Despite its detractors, the Mac can move under sail from one place to another. It might be tender, it might not point well, etc, etc. No fuel used under sail. Under power at less than hull speed, I believe the boat is a fuel miser compared to similar sized power boats and heavier but similar sized sailboats. When wind on the freeboard affects that economy, there's probably wind to sail instead. On the economy related new/used issue, I'll make my points under the construction topic. --Livability. I just don't have the experience here, from what I've read the Mac is as comfortable as any 26. Since I've tented for weeks at a time, I don't see a problem with it. I'm not going to be living on the boat. Me and the wife on 2-6 week cruises, and we are not tall, and not fat. --Construction. I've seen many "better" sailboats recommended by the "real" sailors to those considering the Mac 26M. This in order to get a "real" used sailboat for the price of a new Mac. When I started looking at some of the recommendations I found most are boats 20-40 years old. There might be a problem even getting insurance on these. Besides, who wants a decrepit (insert pet sailboat here), mildew-stinking, stringer rotting, engine-dying, sail-rotting, barnicle-embedded, crap-in-the-bilge old ill-maintained boat when you can get a new Mac? Some of these sailors bragging about how well their cachet-name sailboat is maintained probably don't do anything but shine brightwork, and leave Brasso swirls when doing that. Besides that, some of these boats are floating supported by 1/8" of glass over 1/4" of chopper-gun crud over a layer of poorly wetted cloth. From what I've read the production process used in building the Mac has more QC than most boat builders use. I still don't know enough about that and other construction details to buy one, but I can find out, even if I have to visit the plant. No teak, plenty of minor fit/finish complaints, light hardware, etc. A solid boat suitable for my purposes, or so it seems. Anyway, even an experienced surveyor can't always find the real quality of a boat. Somebody recommended the Parker-Dawson 26 over the Mac and when I looked for info I found owners discovering deck cleats had not even large washers as backing. One came adrift because of this and he lost the boat on the rocks. http://www.parkerdawson.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=288 Now I'm not knocking this boat, just saying even a new boat must be gone over with a fine toothed comb, and an old boat may have well concealed problems that won't be found without taking it apart If they weren't questionable due to age, I'd much prefer a Dawson over a Mac. Of course they were 40k new in 1983, and cross oceans. Some people are willing to buy an old boat and spend a lot of time bringing it up to snuff. Not only do I not have the time or inclination, I get irritable when pulling off half-assed or unsuitable mods. So besides the issue of how a boat has been maintained and whether initial construction is going to bite you, there is the "clean slate" factor in making modifications. This is possible even with a used recent Mac 26, because they aren't normally used as liveaboards and probably not much as overnighters. From perusing the Mac site I see some have added air, gensets, dodgers, extra fresh water, etc. The cabin is an open design from the factory with minimal cabinetry. When first looking at sailers, I tended toward a small diesel for economy when motoring. But now I think the lost interior space and maintenance/cost issues of the diesel in a 26' boat make me lean in favor of a small 4-stroke on the transom. Just as most sailboaters recommend against the Mac 26M, the owners of the Mac 26M generally recommend max HP OB. I'm not buying that either, since I won't be pulling tubes or skis as many of them do, or be in a hurry as many of them are. I'll be looking for my balance between sailing and powering in terms of OB weight. Depending on tradeoffs, I'm not even sure I would get the boat on plane, which is one of its hull-type selling points. I had originally thought along the lines of a 24' Carolina Skiff for mostly short fishing trips, maybe some hook swinging under a popup which some CS owners do. The CS is another economical, shallow draft and highly modifiable boat. But on a price/versatily basis the Mac has the CS beat - for me. Anyway, I'm still learning and all ears for any comments. But please don't make my ears turn red. OTOH, since I'm an old navy guy, that might be impossible. --Vic .. |
The Joys of Boating
On Mar 24, 2:15 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Vic Smith" my brain wrote in messagenews:3qta03hvvu4h42k6s9tndks71gfi69aio8@4ax .com... big snip to remove thinly-disguised and transparant advert for MacGregor junk But please don't make my ears turn red. OTOH, since I'm an old navy guy, that might be impossible. --Vic An old navy guy? Sure you are, Vic. I bet Nathan Branden is your best friend. Wilbur Hubbard Was Nathaniel Branden in the Navy? |
The Joys of Boating
snip might be impossible.
--Vic . Well this one I have a little bit of experiance with; used boat = rip every stitch of wire out of the boat and re run it all. In my experiance the problems i have had on most boats have been with wireing and standing rigging. standing rig i usually have enough stuff to fix it on hand. but a short or a loose wire in the bilge etc can cause things to go gunnybags at the wrong time. most of the electrical is coverd up so you cannot see what is wired correctly and what is not . 2MT |
The Joys of Boating
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:32:11 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote: --Livability. I just don't have the experience here, from what I've read the Mac is as comfortable as any 26. Since I've tented for weeks at a time, I don't see a problem with it. I'm not going to be living on the boat. Me and the wife on 2-6 week cruises, and we are not tall, and not fat. With all due respect, that boat will get very small for two people after a few days of cruising. I appreciate what you are trying to do but I hate to see you spend money on a boat that neither sails, motors or cruises very well. See if you can rent one for a week before you buy. In the long run I think you'd be happier with something like a RF246 with a 4 stroke outboard on it. http://www.rosboroughboats.com/ Try to find a good used one. .. |
The Joys of Boating
Vic Smith wrote:
On 24 Mar 2007 13:24:03 -0700, "Tim" wrote: On Mar 24, 2:15 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Vic Smith" my brain wrote in messagenews:3qta03hvvu4h42k6s9tndks71gfi69aio8@4ax .com... big snip to remove thinly-disguised and transparant advert for MacGregor junk But please don't make my ears turn red. OTOH, since I'm an old navy guy, that might be impossible. --Vic An old navy guy? Sure you are, Vic. I bet Nathan Branden is your best friend. Wilbur Hubbard Was Nathaniel Branden in the Navy? I knew a Branden in boot camp, but maybe it was Brandon. We never used first names, so I have no idea on that. Too busy boating right now to look in the boot camp book. --Vic I believe the Branden referred to here was a follower of Ayn Rand, originator of the most turgid bits of pseudo-philosophy and prose ever perpetrated on mankind. Or close to it. |
The Joys of Boating
On 24 Mar 2007 13:30:00 -0700, "Two meter troll"
wrote: Well this one I have a little bit of experiance with; used boat = rip every stitch of wire out of the boat and re run it all. In my experiance the problems i have had on most boats have been with wireing and standing rigging. standing rig i usually have enough stuff to fix it on hand. but a short or a loose wire in the bilge etc can cause things to go gunnybags at the wrong time. most of the electrical is coverd up so you cannot see what is wired correctly and what is not . Rewiring an old boat first off would be my inclination too. 20-40 year-old wire, and 20-40 years of hatchet jobs done to the wiring by "sailors." No thanks! . Even on a new Mac 26M first thing you do if you intend electrical additions is toss the stock electric panel and get a beefier one that fits your needs. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
On 24 Mar 2007 13:24:03 -0700, "Tim" wrote:
On Mar 24, 2:15 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Vic Smith" my brain wrote in messagenews:3qta03hvvu4h42k6s9tndks71gfi69aio8@4ax .com... big snip to remove thinly-disguised and transparant advert for MacGregor junk But please don't make my ears turn red. OTOH, since I'm an old navy guy, that might be impossible. --Vic An old navy guy? Sure you are, Vic. I bet Nathan Branden is your best friend. Wilbur Hubbard Was Nathaniel Branden in the Navy? I knew a Branden in boot camp, but maybe it was Brandon. We never used first names, so I have no idea on that. Too busy boating right now to look in the boot camp book. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:44:46 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote: Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like the idea of sailing, having crewed some. Sure, sailing is great fun but it is difficult to get a boat that sails well and cruises well, and still meets your shallow draft requirement. You might want to get an inexpensive day sailor just as a fun boat. There are lots to choose from, but one of my choices would be a Flying Scot. http://www.flyingscot.com/ They are good boats that sail very well and meet your specs with the exception of cruising. You can beach them and go tent camping of course. I'm guessing you could pick up a good used one with trailer for less than $5K. |
The Joys of Boating
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:55:47 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Vic Smith wrote: I knew a Branden in boot camp, but maybe it was Brandon. We never used first names, so I have no idea on that. Too busy boating right now to look in the boot camp book. --Vic I believe the Branden referred to here was a follower of Ayn Rand, originator of the most turgid bits of pseudo-philosophy and prose ever perpetrated on mankind. Or close to it. I started reading Atlas Shrugged once. Started. Quite a contrast in the work of a Dostoevsky writing Crime and Punishment, and a Rand writing her crap, though both were essentially writing about nihilism. Dostoevsky knew what he was doing, however, in C and P. There's a guy posting in the ASA group using the Branden moniker. I don't bother with him either. --Vic It shows that you never bothered learning just about anything. A Mac26? A Mac26? Bwahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahah ahah! Were you a WAVE in the Navy? Wilbur Hubbard Wilbur Hubbard |
The Joys of Boating
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... As I do extensive reading in trying to select what boat will suit me best, I realize just how much fun boating is. snipped Hey Vicky, here's a boat that fits your abilities . . . You wahini! http://thebayguide.com/rec.boats/pho...sumpter_01.jpg Faster than a Mac and built better. Wilbur Hubbard |
The Joys of Boating
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:02:36 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:32:11 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: --Livability. I just don't have the experience here, from what I've read the Mac is as comfortable as any 26. Since I've tented for weeks at a time, I don't see a problem with it. I'm not going to be living on the boat. Me and the wife on 2-6 week cruises, and we are not tall, and not fat. With all due respect, that boat will get very small for two people after a few days of cruising. I appreciate what you are trying to do but I hate to see you spend money on a boat that neither sails, motors or cruises very well. See if you can rent one for a week before you buy. In the long run I think you'd be happier with something like a RF246 with a 4 stroke outboard on it. http://www.rosboroughboats.com/ Try to find a good used one. Thanks. Nice boat, but might be a bit rich for my blood. Hadn't seen it before even with all my browsing. You may be right on target though, and I take your advice to try out what I'm buying before I buy it to heart. You gave me another avenue to explore. Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like the idea of sailing, having crewed some. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message ... "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:55:47 -0400, Harry Krause wrote: Vic Smith wrote: I knew a Branden in boot camp, but maybe it was Brandon. We never used first names, so I have no idea on that. Too busy boating right now to look in the boot camp book. --Vic I believe the Branden referred to here was a follower of Ayn Rand, originator of the most turgid bits of pseudo-philosophy and prose ever perpetrated on mankind. Or close to it. I started reading Atlas Shrugged once. Started. Quite a contrast in the work of a Dostoevsky writing Crime and Punishment, and a Rand writing her crap, though both were essentially writing about nihilism. Dostoevsky knew what he was doing, however, in C and P. There's a guy posting in the ASA group using the Branden moniker. I don't bother with him either. --Vic It shows that you never bothered learning just about anything. A Mac26? A Mac26? Bwahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahah ahah! Were you a WAVE in the Navy? Wilbur Hubbard Wilbur Hubbard See ya! plunk |
The Joys of Boating
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:55:47 -0400, Harry Krause
wrote: Vic Smith wrote: I knew a Branden in boot camp, but maybe it was Brandon. We never used first names, so I have no idea on that. Too busy boating right now to look in the boot camp book. --Vic I believe the Branden referred to here was a follower of Ayn Rand, originator of the most turgid bits of pseudo-philosophy and prose ever perpetrated on mankind. Or close to it. I started reading Atlas Shrugged once. Started. Quite a contrast in the work of a Dostoevsky writing Crime and Punishment, and a Rand writing her crap, though both were essentially writing about nihilism. Dostoevsky knew what he was doing, however, in C and P. There's a guy posting in the ASA group using the Branden moniker. I don't bother with him either. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:19:26 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 16:44:46 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like the idea of sailing, having crewed some. Sure, sailing is great fun but it is difficult to get a boat that sails well and cruises well, and still meets your shallow draft requirement. You might want to get an inexpensive day sailor just as a fun boat. There are lots to choose from, but one of my choices would be a Flying Scot. http://www.flyingscot.com/ They are good boats that sail very well and meet your specs with the exception of cruising. You can beach them and go tent camping of course. I'm guessing you could pick up a good used one with trailer for less than $5K. Boy, you're gonna keep me busy boating on the net for a few more days now! You've dead on about combining cruising/sailing/shallow draft capabilities in one boat I can afford. That Mac 26 comes closest right now. Ideally, I'd get a Flying Scot for sailing and something like the Rosborough RF-246 for cruising, but I'm not ready to commit that much money yet. Too many questions to be answered, especially some hands-on boating. Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail. Thanks for the ideas. Now I'll go tell the wife I changed my mind about buying a boat. I want at least 2 boats. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
On Mar 24, 12:32�pm, Vic Smith
wrote: As I do extensive reading in trying to select what boat will suit me best, I realize just how much fun boating is. And I haven't even left the basement! Right now I'm leaning toward the MacGregor 26M. Might be new, might be used. *It's usually called a "motor sailor" * It's a high volume boat, inexpensive, and generally frowned upon by the "high speed" sailing crowd. *When under sail it doesn't perform as well as dedicated sailboats, though no single keel sailboat of similar size is exactly a speed demon. Some of the Mac's sailing performance deficit is inherent in its dual purpose design, and some appears to be because those who buy this Mac are not hard core sailors, and don't lend much effort to getting the most of its sailing capabilities. Everybody has different preferences in what they want from a boat, and I'm laying out some of mine here. *They might change when I get more experience, and they are in the end a balancing act, as always. -- Sailing area. *The boat will be used exclusively to cruise the west coast of Florida, from the panhandle to the Keys. -- Purpose. *Slow cruising and fishing. *Hook swinging in shallow, sheltered areas, exploring islands. *Shallow draft (+-18") is essential for this, and I won't bend here. *I don't dinghy. *Had enough dinghying/whaleboating when I was in the navy. On the fishing side it looks like the Mac cockpit is small, and freeboard all around is high, so it's sure not the best fishing platform, but I could fish off a jetski, so it's not a deal killer. Cruising might be a month out from home port, and I'll cover that under other categories. *Might get some subjects confused in a category, but I'll do my best to keep organized. * -- Economy. *My purchase/equip budget is @30k. *But that's if ongoing costs aren't going to eat me up. The Mac is trailerable, so when not in use it can be stored at relatively low cost. Despite its detractors, the Mac can move under sail from one place to another. *It might be tender, it might not point well, etc, etc. *No fuel used under sail. Under power at less than hull speed, I believe the boat is a fuel miser compared to similar sized power boats and heavier but similar sized sailboats. *When wind on the freeboard affects that economy, there's probably wind to sail instead. On the economy related new/used issue, I'll make my points under the construction topic. --Livability. *I just don't have the experience here, from what I've read the Mac is as comfortable as any 26. *Since I've tented for weeks at a time, I don't see a problem with it. *I'm not going to be living on the boat. *Me and the wife on 2-6 week cruises, and we are not tall, and not fat. --Construction. *I've seen many "better" sailboats recommended by the "real" sailors to those considering the Mac 26M. *This in order to get a "real" used sailboat for the price of a new Mac. When I started looking at some of the recommendations I found most are boats 20-40 years old. *There might be a problem even getting insurance on these. Besides, who wants a decrepit (insert pet sailboat here), mildew-stinking, stringer rotting, engine-dying, sail-rotting, barnicle-embedded, crap-in-the-bilge old ill-maintained boat when you can get a new Mac? *Some of these sailors bragging about how well their cachet-name sailboat is maintained probably don't do anything but shine brightwork, and leave Brasso swirls when doing that. Besides that, some of these boats are floating supported by 1/8" of glass over 1/4" of chopper-gun crud over a layer of poorly wetted cloth. From what I've read the production process used in building the Mac has more QC than most boat builders use. *I still don't know enough about that and other construction details to buy one, but I can find out, even if I have to visit the plant. *No teak, plenty of minor fit/finish complaints, light hardware, etc. A solid boat suitable for my purposes, or so it seems. Anyway, even an experienced surveyor can't always find the real quality of a boat. *Somebody recommended the Parker-Dawson 26 over the Mac and when I looked for info I found owners discovering deck cleats had not even large washers as backing. *One came adrift because of this and he lost the boat on the rocks.http://www.parkerdawson..com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=288 Now I'm not knocking this boat, just saying even a new boat must be gone over with a fine toothed comb, and an old boat may have well concealed problems that won't be found without taking it apart If they weren't questionable due to age, I'd much prefer a Dawson over a Mac. *Of course they were 40k new in 1983, and cross oceans. Some people are willing to buy an old boat and spend a lot of time bringing it up to snuff. *Not only do I not have the time or inclination, I get irritable when pulling off half-assed or unsuitable mods. So besides the issue of how a boat has been maintained and whether initial construction is going to bite you, there is the "clean slate" factor in making modifications. *This is possible even with a used recent Mac 26, because they aren't normally used as liveaboards and probably not much as overnighters. * From perusing the Mac site I see some have added air, gensets, dodgers, extra fresh water, etc. *The cabin is an open design from the factory with minimal cabinetry. When first looking at sailers, I tended toward a small diesel for economy when motoring. *But now I think the lost interior space and maintenance/cost issues of the diesel in a 26' boat make me lean in favor of a small 4-stroke on the transom. Just as most sailboaters recommend against the Mac 26M, the owners of the Mac 26M generally recommend max HP OB. *I'm not buying that either, since I won't be pulling tubes or skis as many of them do, or be in a hurry as many of them are. I'll be looking for my balance between sailing and powering in terms of OB weight. *Depending on tradeoffs, I'm not even sure I would get the boat on plane, which is one of its hull-type selling points. * * I had originally thought along the lines of a 24' Carolina Skiff for mostly short fishing trips, maybe some hook swinging under a popup which some CS owners do. *The CS is another economical, shallow draft and highly modifiable boat. But on a price/versatily basis the Mac has the CS beat - for me. Anyway, I'm still learning and all ears for any comments. *But please don't make my ears turn red. *OTOH, since I'm an old navy guy, that might be impossible. * --Vic . When you first began outlining your parameters, including the $30k budget, it sounded to me like the MacGregor 26 made a lot of sense as an option. Nothing has dissuaded me from that opinion. Just about everybody will agree that it doesn't sail "as well" as more conventional sailboats, but it sails well enough to enjoy the experience of sailing. Most of those sailors who feel that nobody should be seen in a boat that isn't the finest possible technical achievement ever launched under sail should stop criticizing your interest in the MacGregor and immediately go scuttle whatever also-highly-compromised boat it is that they currently own. With a single outboard, you can realize some pretty impressive speeds when in the "powerboat mode". As far as interior accommodation goes- that small cockpit that restricts your fishing room translates into about 3 times the interior cabin room of most 26-foot powerboats. Are there better boats out there than a MacGregor 26? Heck and absolutely yes. But not new or nearly new for $30k, and not that will meet most of your other qualifications in the process. As you can see, there are certain brands of boats (usually among the more moderately priced) where ownership comes with a steady barrage of nasty comments from nasty people who can't wait to tell you what a dunce you were for not buying whatever brand they happen to own. I have to wonder how many people wind up buying a beat up old hulk with an "acceptable" trade name on it just to avoid dealing with such jerks? If you have an interest in MacGregor, research the heck out of it. I'd hang out on the MacGregor owner's group site and ask a few questions, etc, if I were you. See if you can find somebody who is using one in the same sort of conditions or the same general vicinity where you plan to boat. There are those who will caution you that current owners are a poor resource because they tend to sing the praises of their own boat----- but what would be better? Folks who had never owned one and were merely inventing or passing along dock gossip? By all means, pay no attention at all to folks who feel compelled to call names or make disparaging personal remarks when belittling your interest in this or any other boat. If they had anything intelligent or useful to say about the subject they would do so, rather than publicly demonstrate their immaturity and lack of self control. The local MacGregor dealer is all but sold out until the end of the year. The MacGregor owners in the Pacific NW have an annual rendezous that is extremely well attended, and the boats are very popular, within their niche, in this corner of the country. I still think you'd be no worse off with a new Mac 26, (given the rest of your requirements) than you would be with a 1979 version of a "real" sailboat (with "real" headaches) for maybe the same kind of money. |
The Joys of Boating
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 18:50:16 -0400, "JimH"
wrote: "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message It shows that you never bothered learning just about anything. A Mac26? A Mac26? Bwahahahahhahahahhahahahhahahhahahahhahahahhahahah ahah! Were you a WAVE in the Navy? Wilbur Hubbard See ya! plunk Good idea. Sorry to bring this on, but it's par for the course when the Mac 26 is "discussed." I posted to the cruising group too, hoping for some useful input, and already got some. "Wilbur" is the Rod Speed of the boating groups, but like Speed, often has useful/insightful posts when he's not making you gag. Since "Wilbur" is a real sailor and a more entertaining writer than Speed, he's worthwhile when he's not baby talking or insulting people to no purpose. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
Good idea. Sorry to bring this on, but it's par for the course when the Mac 26 is "discussed." I posted to the cruising group too, hoping for some useful input, and already got some. "Wilbur" is the Rod Speed of the boating groups, but like Speed, often has useful/insightful posts when he's not making you gag. Since "Wilbur" is a real sailor and a more entertaining writer than Speed, he's worthwhile when he's not baby talking or insulting people to no purpose. --Vic definitions: Any ways you got good advice from a bunch of folks: since i do not "sail" but was on ships for most of my life. I would say the other leg of this stool is to go a talk to some of the folks down on the gulf coast of florida and on up to texas face to face and ask questions. if this boat is not going to be anyplace else you might not need what you think you need. 2MT |
The Joys of Boating
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:32:11 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote: As I do extensive reading in trying to select what boat will suit me best, I realize just how much fun boating is. And I haven't even left the basement! Right now I'm leaning toward the MacGregor 26M. Might be new, might be used. It's usually called a "motor sailor" It's a high volume boat, inexpensive, and generally frowned upon by the "high speed" sailing crowd. When under sail it doesn't perform as well as dedicated sailboats, though no single keel sailboat of similar size is exactly a speed demon. A bloke in the next slip to me, when I was in Singapore, had a brand new MG. From talking to him it appeared that he had done considerable sailing in the U.K. but his wife was Asian and had never been at sea. They sailed the boat every weekend for the month or so I was there and finally decided to sell the boat as winds in SEA are really not reliable enough to make sailing interesting. Bought a power boat. However, they liked the boat. Small, fast under power. A bit spartan but fine for weekends. Not a boat for ocean voyages but nice enough for short trips. I would guess that if you have really, really, considered the strengths and weaknesses of the boat and feel that the strengths outweigh the weaknesses then it will be fine. A canoe just won;t do to cross oceans and a 50 ft. sailing yacht isn't the thing for gunk-holing. Bruce in Bangkok (brucepaigeatgmaildotcom) -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
The Joys of Boating
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith
wrote: Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail. More like 3 dogs :-) The Flying Scot will run circles around it. The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. Most people end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly as well suited for that as a real power boat. |
The Joys of Boating
On 24 Mar 2007 16:50:30 -0700, "Chuck Gould"
wrote: With a single outboard, you can realize some pretty impressive speeds when in the "powerboat mode". Strangely enough, this hardly interests me, although since it's there I'll probably make use of it at one time or another. I'm really not at all interested in speed, and would be content with a trawler or tug if that could happily meet my finances. My goals have a lot vested in economy. Sails suit that well with the silent pleasure aspect of sailing thrown in. As far as interior accommodation goes- that small cockpit that restricts your fishing room translates into about 3 times the interior cabin room of most 26-foot powerboats. Good point, and one I easily forget when thinking about how I'm going to fish from that boat. I *really* need some hands-on time. As you can see, there are certain brands of boats (usually among the more moderately priced) where ownership comes with a steady barrage of nasty comments from nasty people who can't wait to tell you what a dunce you were for not buying whatever brand they happen to own. I have to wonder how many people wind up buying a beat up old hulk with an "acceptable" trade name on it just to avoid dealing with such jerks? Or a new Honda instead of a used Chevy (-: Being a used Chevy guy, my skin deflects all arrows. And has some bearing on why I can afford a boat in the first place! I still think you'd be no worse off with a new Mac 26, (given the rest of your requirements) than you would be with a 1979 version of a "real" sailboat (with "real" headaches) for maybe the same kind of money. Thanks for your comments, Chuck. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
On 24 Mar 2007 18:13:21 -0700, "Two meter troll"
wrote: Any ways you got good advice from a bunch of folks: since i do not "sail" but was on ships for most of my life. I'll sure remember what you said about wiring. I would say the other leg of this stool is to go a talk to some of the folks down on the gulf coast of florida and on up to texas face to face and ask questions. if this boat is not going to be anyplace else you might not need what you think you need. 2MT Sounds like an excellent idea. And a nice vacation too! --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
... On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail. More like 3 dogs :-) The Flying Scot will run circles around it. The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. Most people end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly as well suited for that as a real power boat. Far from defending the Mac26, I will say that there are situations when it seems to be appropriate. For example, I know a couple who have one, and they almost exclusively explore the marshland near a community in the SF bayarea. They don't venture out onto the bay much... perhaps 5 percent of the time and then only in the south bay. They like bird watching and don't want to kayak, since they stay out for a couple of days in a row. I think they do sail it a bit, but mostly they motor very slowly hither and yon. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
The Joys of Boating
Vic Smith wrote:
Thanks. Nice boat, but might be a bit rich for my blood. Hadn't seen it before even with all my browsing. You may be right on target though, and I take your advice to try out what I'm buying before I buy it to heart. You gave me another avenue to explore. Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like the idea of sailing, having crewed some. --Vic Heck, Vic. My boat is smaller that that - a LOT smaller - and we do fine for a few nights. Who you are with makes a big difference. Richard |
The Joys of Boating
On Mar 24, 6:52�pm, Wayne.B wrote:
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail. More like 3 dogs * *:-) The Flying Scot will run circles around it. The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. *Most people end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly as well suited for that as a real power boat. Good observation. It may be regionally significant, or not. The best months for sailing in my region are when it's pretty cold and still peeing down rain in the spring and fall. The winds don't come up until late in the afternoon a lot of midsummer days when the weather is warmer. As a result, most of the sailboats in this corner of the country operate under power most of the time. Sailing seems to be reserved for racing, or for screwing around with for an hour or two after arriving in the general vicinity of the ultimate daily destination. Of course there are scattered exceptions, just enough to prove the rule. From that respect, a MacGregor that spent most of its time in powerboat mode wouldn't vary much from a more elite brand doing the same thing. |
The Joys of Boating
If I were interested in sailing, I'd consider a Mac, too. I think you'd be
happy with it: it's not expensive and it will do the job. I read a review on it years ago, and the only thing I remember as a possible disadvantage was the hardware not being the best or sturdiest. "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... On 24 Mar 2007 16:50:30 -0700, "Chuck Gould" wrote: With a single outboard, you can realize some pretty impressive speeds when in the "powerboat mode". Strangely enough, this hardly interests me, although since it's there I'll probably make use of it at one time or another. I'm really not at all interested in speed, and would be content with a trawler or tug if that could happily meet my finances. My goals have a lot vested in economy. Sails suit that well with the silent pleasure aspect of sailing thrown in. As far as interior accommodation goes- that small cockpit that restricts your fishing room translates into about 3 times the interior cabin room of most 26-foot powerboats. Good point, and one I easily forget when thinking about how I'm going to fish from that boat. I *really* need some hands-on time. As you can see, there are certain brands of boats (usually among the more moderately priced) where ownership comes with a steady barrage of nasty comments from nasty people who can't wait to tell you what a dunce you were for not buying whatever brand they happen to own. I have to wonder how many people wind up buying a beat up old hulk with an "acceptable" trade name on it just to avoid dealing with such jerks? Or a new Honda instead of a used Chevy (-: Being a used Chevy guy, my skin deflects all arrows. And has some bearing on why I can afford a boat in the first place! I still think you'd be no worse off with a new Mac 26, (given the rest of your requirements) than you would be with a 1979 version of a "real" sailboat (with "real" headaches) for maybe the same kind of money. Thanks for your comments, Chuck. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
"Chuck Gould" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 24, 6:52?pm, Wayne.B wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: Good observation. It may be regionally significant, or not. The best months for sailing in my region are when it's pretty cold and still peeing down rain in the spring and fall. The winds don't come up until late in the afternoon a lot of midsummer days when the weather is warmer. As a result, most of the sailboats in this corner of the country operate under power most of the time. Sailing seems to be reserved for racing, or for screwing around with for an hour or two after arriving in the general vicinity of the ultimate daily destination. Of course there are scattered exceptions, just enough to prove the rule. From that respect, a MacGregor that spent most of its time in powerboat mode wouldn't vary much from a more elite brand doing the same thing. That's a real shame. here we can count on the usual South West winds to come up around 1000 hrs and last until 1900 hrs. We would go a whole season on a tank of diesel. |
The Joys of Boating
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 21:52:12 -0400, Wayne.B
wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail. More like 3 dogs :-) The Flying Scot will run circles around it. The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. Most people end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly as well suited for that as a real power boat. Your opinion noted and respected. I've spent considerable time reading the Mac forum and other sail forums, including ASA. You're right about Mac 26's being used mostly under power, but the same is true for all cruising sailboats, Mac or not. The Mac just powers better. I've read post after post from non-Mac cruising sailors who hardly ever sail! They are frank when informal surveys are done. Not enough wind to hoist sail. Too windy to hoist sail. ICW unsuitable for sailing. Easier to just crank up the motor. Don't want to beat against the wind. Prefer not to heel too much because the drinks get spilled. And on and on. Others are marina or hook sailors who seemingly *never* sail, but write posts about sailing quite a bit, much as I'm doing and I don't even have a boat! Just as a rough estimate from my reading, I'd say Mac owners spend more time out in the water moving than the average sailboat owner. Some of the Mac owners sail quite a bit and enjoy it. Some of them have been sailing all their lives on quicker boats but still are happy to sail their Macs. Since I'm not a sailing purist, and have vowed never to be in a hurry, I have no problem with the Mac being slow. I'll give a friendly wave to those who pass and leave them to feel like happy because they passed a Mac. Since you were a racing sailor, you may have difficulty connecting to that mindset. Of course, maybe I'll trouble with it to when I get to sailing. Bottom line is you want to sail, you hoist sail. If you want to race under sail and brag about it, don't get a Mac. Actually, on the power cruiser side, there seems to be even less compromise. Like sailers, power cruisers come in many flavors. Speed, cabin size, fishing suitability, economy and weather handling quickly come to mind. The Mac is again slow to the speedster, probably doing 12-15 knots with a cruising load and 50hp. Still faster than tugs and trawlers at better economy. Might get superb MPG if powered right and kept below hull speed. Most owners don't use it that way. It's not a good fishing platform. It's better in weather than an open boat and at least equal to a similarly priced power cruiser. The cabin space is voluminous compared to motor cruisers of the same length, though buried below deck and not well appointed stock. The power cruiser aspect is what got me interested in the Mac in the first place, when I realized that if I went with the Carolina Skiff my sense of gas economy and no need for speed would have me running it off plane. So in considering economical hull types I reached the Mac, which might be called a semi-displacement hull, and has many advantages over the Carolina Skiff in my eyes, though it's 8-10k more. That's where I am now, compromised. And it's fun enough. I've worn this subject out for now, and other facts are intervening. Was going to Punta Gorda first week of April and try out some boats, but I've been offered a six month contract that will probably draw me out of retirement, which is good and bad. Bad because I don't like work, good because I can get more boat. Since in six months I might be too old to handle sail and have more money too, that RF246 might look sweeter yet. If I'm stuck here I'll call some sailing contacts and maybe crew on Lake Michigan some weekends this summer to get a better picture. Gosh, I hope I don't get seasick. That'll screw things up real good. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 08:37:10 +0700, Bruce
wrote: On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 13:32:11 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: As I do extensive reading in trying to select what boat will suit me best, I realize just how much fun boating is. And I haven't even left the basement! Right now I'm leaning toward the MacGregor 26M. Might be new, might be used. It's usually called a "motor sailor" It's a high volume boat, inexpensive, and generally frowned upon by the "high speed" sailing crowd. When under sail it doesn't perform as well as dedicated sailboats, though no single keel sailboat of similar size is exactly a speed demon. A bloke in the next slip to me, when I was in Singapore, had a brand new MG. From talking to him it appeared that he had done considerable sailing in the U.K. but his wife was Asian and had never been at sea. They sailed the boat every weekend for the month or so I was there and finally decided to sell the boat as winds in SEA are really not reliable enough to make sailing interesting. Bought a power boat. However, they liked the boat. Small, fast under power. A bit spartan but fine for weekends. Not a boat for ocean voyages but nice enough for short trips. I would guess that if you have really, really, considered the strengths and weaknesses of the boat and feel that the strengths outweigh the weaknesses then it will be fine. A canoe just won;t do to cross oceans and a 50 ft. sailing yacht isn't the thing for gunk-holing. Right. I'm not going to do an impulse buy. Didn't realize finding sailing wind was such a problem until recently. Here on Lake Michigan near Chicago calm is fairly rare, though it spoils the occasional weekend day for sailors. The times I've spent in Florida, always in the summer, there's generally a good breeze off shore. Maybe too much for a Mac (-: But the vagaries of sailing weather is probably one reason Mac sells so many of this type boat. I think the main reason though is the boat is versatile and inexpensive. Though I've never cared a whit about skiing and tubing, many families enjoy doing it with their kids. As a value proposition the boat works well indeed. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:41:40 GMT, cavelamb himself
wrote: Vic Smith wrote: Thanks. Nice boat, but might be a bit rich for my blood. Hadn't seen it before even with all my browsing. You may be right on target though, and I take your advice to try out what I'm buying before I buy it to heart. You gave me another avenue to explore. Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like the idea of sailing, having crewed some. --Vic Heck, Vic. My boat is smaller that that - a LOT smaller - and we do fine for a few nights. Yeah, everybody has different preferences. And I'm old enough to know better than commit to any dream world without trying it first. Who you are with makes a big difference. Got that covered. But then there's the other half who might think different when she's locked on the same boat with me for days on end. Wait a minute, maybe I don't have that covered myself! --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 22:24:14 -0700, "William Andersen"
wrote: If I were interested in sailing, I'd consider a Mac, too. I think you'd be happy with it: it's not expensive and it will do the job. I read a review on it years ago, and the only thing I remember as a possible disadvantage was the hardware not being the best or sturdiest. Yes. At least one dealer refits some of the deck rigging right off. --Vic |
The Joys of Boating
"Vic Smith" wrote in message ... Right. I'm not going to do an impulse buy. That's excellent that you're taking your time and doing it right. There's one moron around here by the name of JimC who claims he's a lawyer. He ran out on an impulse and bought a Mac26M and now is totally embarrassed about his uninformed entry-level purchase. It's like I'm sure people look at his boat and then find out he's a lawyer and they begin to wonder how lame is this guy. Lawyers who are worth a hoot make, what, about 500 dollars an hour so he ought to be able to afford a real boat and a classy boat at that. Anyhow, poor JimC spent probably a hundred hours posting things about how he was so happy with his purchase but you could tell he was not happy at all. Somebody who's happy with his boat doesn't spend hundreds of hours trying to convince himself how great it is. But, I think the dude finally got the message that everybody thought he was pretty stupid and he got totally disrespected so he sorta slunk off with his tail tucked. He just about quit posting on alt.sailing.asa because he became the laughing stock of the group. If you are the type of individual who is a bit insecure about his personal worth and has low self-esteem and is a bit paranoid like Jonathan Ganz, for example, do yourself a favor and consider how people will snicker behind your back and make snide remarks about your pretend sailboat. If that sort of thing gets to you perhaps you should reconsider and get a boat that is more prestigious. If you don't give a crap what people think about your choice of boat and it doesn't bother your self-esteem the Mac 26 could be a decent choice for you. If you're more like Scotty you won't care at all what people think. Scotty sails a Seidelmann which has a worse reputation than even a Mac26. He doesn't seem to care that almost everybody laughs at him behind his back and shuns him to his face when confronted with him in person. He's the type that probably would be very happy with a Mac26. Wilbur Hubbard |
The Joys of Boating
On Mar 25, 1:00 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... Right. I'm not going to do an impulse buy. That's excellent that you're taking your time and doing it right. There's one moron around here by the name of JimC who claims he's a lawyer. He ran out on an impulse and bought a Mac26M and now is totally embarrassed about his uninformed entry-level purchase. It's like I'm sure people look at his boat and then find out he's a lawyer and they begin to wonder how lame is this guy. Lawyers who are worth a hoot make, what, about 500 dollars an hour so he ought to be able to afford a real boat and a classy boat at that. Anyhow, poor JimC spent probably a hundred hours posting things about how he was so happy with his purchase but you could tell he was not happy at all. Somebody who's happy with his boat doesn't spend hundreds of hours trying to convince himself how great it is. But, I think the dude finally got the message that everybody thought he was pretty stupid and he got totally disrespected so he sorta slunk off with his tail tucked. He just about quit posting on alt.sailing.asa because he became the laughing stock of the group. If you are the type of individual who is a bit insecure about his personal worth and has low self-esteem and is a bit paranoid like Jonathan Ganz, for example, do yourself a favor and consider how people will snicker behind your back and make snide remarks about your pretend sailboat. If that sort of thing gets to you perhaps you should reconsider and get a boat that is more prestigious. If you don't give a crap what people think about your choice of boat and it doesn't bother your self-esteem the Mac 26 could be a decent choice for you. If you're more like Scotty you won't care at all what people think. Scotty sails a Seidelmann which has a worse reputation than even a Mac26. He doesn't seem to care that almost everybody laughs at him behind his back and shuns him to his face when confronted with him in person. He's the type that probably would be very happy with a Mac26. Wilbur Hubbard Hey Wilber, Guess who I saw out sailing on the lake today? It's blowing about 13kts steady and it looks like he was having a nice sail. Joe |
The Joys of Boating
"Joe" wrote in message oups.com... On Mar 25, 1:00 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard" wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... Right. I'm not going to do an impulse buy. That's excellent that you're taking your time and doing it right. There's one moron around here by the name of JimC who claims he's a lawyer. He ran out on an impulse and bought a Mac26M and now is totally embarrassed about his uninformed entry-level purchase. It's like I'm sure people look at his boat and then find out he's a lawyer and they begin to wonder how lame is this guy. Lawyers who are worth a hoot make, what, about 500 dollars an hour so he ought to be able to afford a real boat and a classy boat at that. Anyhow, poor JimC spent probably a hundred hours posting things about how he was so happy with his purchase but you could tell he was not happy at all. Somebody who's happy with his boat doesn't spend hundreds of hours trying to convince himself how great it is. But, I think the dude finally got the message that everybody thought he was pretty stupid and he got totally disrespected so he sorta slunk off with his tail tucked. He just about quit posting on alt.sailing.asa because he became the laughing stock of the group. If you are the type of individual who is a bit insecure about his personal worth and has low self-esteem and is a bit paranoid like Jonathan Ganz, for example, do yourself a favor and consider how people will snicker behind your back and make snide remarks about your pretend sailboat. If that sort of thing gets to you perhaps you should reconsider and get a boat that is more prestigious. If you don't give a crap what people think about your choice of boat and it doesn't bother your self-esteem the Mac 26 could be a decent choice for you. If you're more like Scotty you won't care at all what people think. Scotty sails a Seidelmann which has a worse reputation than even a Mac26. He doesn't seem to care that almost everybody laughs at him behind his back and shuns him to his face when confronted with him in person. He's the type that probably would be very happy with a Mac26. Wilbur Hubbard Hey Wilber, Guess who I saw out sailing on the lake today? It's blowing about 13kts steady and it looks like he was having a nice sail. Joe A lake in Texas. It couldn't be Scotti-Potti. Nor Bobsprit. Nor JL Rodgers who never got around to getting a boat. Maybe it was Greg in his Coronado 25. He lives down there in Texas the last I heard. Wilbur Hubbard |
The Joys of Boating
Vic Smith wrote:
On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:41:40 GMT, cavelamb himself wrote: Vic Smith wrote: Thanks. Nice boat, but might be a bit rich for my blood. Hadn't seen it before even with all my browsing. You may be right on target though, and I take your advice to try out what I'm buying before I buy it to heart. You gave me another avenue to explore. Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like the idea of sailing, having crewed some. --Vic Heck, Vic. My boat is smaller that that - a LOT smaller - and we do fine for a few nights. Yeah, everybody has different preferences. And I'm old enough to know better than commit to any dream world without trying it first. Who you are with makes a big difference. Got that covered. But then there's the other half who might think different when she's locked on the same boat with me for days on end. Wait a minute, maybe I don't have that covered myself! --Vic I considered a Mac 26. They look great on the net. But changed my mind after sailing one. They do power pretty well - if you have enough horsepower. But I wanted to sail. My boat is a Catalina Capri 18 (which is NOT a centerboard boat, BTW). She has a 5 HP Briggs (air cooled!) outboard. Spent about 6 weeks at Canyon lake last summer, Then moved up to Ray Hubbard near Dallas and have had a blast. In all that thme we've burned half a tanks of gas. (It's a 3 gallon tank) Just about finished installing the cabinets! Ok, not plural - cabinet. But it sure helps organize the interior. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavel...rit.htm#spirit We had to cut short today and go home to mow the lawn. Yech! Farmer work. I'd REALLY rather be sailing! Richard |
The Joys of Boating
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message link.net... Vic Smith wrote: On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 03:41:40 GMT, cavelamb himself wrote: Vic Smith wrote: Thanks. Nice boat, but might be a bit rich for my blood. Hadn't seen it before even with all my browsing. You may be right on target though, and I take your advice to try out what I'm buying before I buy it to heart. You gave me another avenue to explore. Although I'm not young, I'm still in pretty good shape, and do like the idea of sailing, having crewed some. --Vic Heck, Vic. My boat is smaller that that - a LOT smaller - and we do fine for a few nights. Yeah, everybody has different preferences. And I'm old enough to know better than commit to any dream world without trying it first. Who you are with makes a big difference. Got that covered. But then there's the other half who might think different when she's locked on the same boat with me for days on end. Wait a minute, maybe I don't have that covered myself! --Vic I considered a Mac 26. They look great on the net. But changed my mind after sailing one. They do power pretty well - if you have enough horsepower. But I wanted to sail. My boat is a Catalina Capri 18 (which is NOT a centerboard boat, BTW). She has a 5 HP Briggs (air cooled!) outboard. Spent about 6 weeks at Canyon lake last summer, Then moved up to Ray Hubbard near Dallas and have had a blast. In all that thme we've burned half a tanks of gas. (It's a 3 gallon tank) Just about finished installing the cabinets! Ok, not plural - cabinet. But it sure helps organize the interior. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavel...rit.htm#spirit We had to cut short today and go home to mow the lawn. Yech! Farmer work. I'd REALLY rather be sailing! Nice but I have one little suggestion. How about installing an itty bitty VHF microphone clip instead of hanging it by the wire and listening to it banging on the bulkhead http://www.boatersworld.com/product/319050043.htm Wilbur Hubbard |
The Joys of Boating
On Mar 24, 10:20 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Sat, 24 Mar 2007 17:48:24 -0600, Vic Smith wrote: Now I want to try that Flying Scot, but I've got no doubt it'll make the Max 26 feel like a dog under sail. More like 3 dogs :-) The Flying Scot will run circles around it. The mac 26 is just too big a compromise in my opinion. Most people end up using them under power most of the time, and they aren't nearly as well suited for that as a real power boat. Far from defending the Mac26, I will say that there are situations when it seems to be appropriate. For example, I know a couple who have one, and they almost exclusively explore the marshland near a community in the SF bayarea. They don't venture out onto the bay much... perhaps 5 percent of the time and then only in the south bay. They like bird watching and don't want to kayak, since they stay out for a couple of days in a row. I think they do sail it a bit, but mostly they motor very slowly hither and yon. -- "j" ganz Not sure about a Mac26, but there's some people on my favorite lake, that have some fairly good sized sail boats, in the 22'-27' range, and there's a couple of baots that doen't have any sailing rigging on them. Interesting to note, that they will come in from the St.Louis area, in a Fri evening (especially on a holiday weekend) load dufflebags, and coolers, into their non rigged sail boat, then power there way out into the lake. some diesel, and some small outboard, and will use the boat for a weekend "water camper". they like the boat, but don't like sailing. huh Tim |
The Joys of Boating
In article .com,
Tim wrote: Far from defending the Mac26, I will say that there are situations when it seems to be appropriate. For example, I know a couple who have one, and they almost exclusively explore the marshland near a community in the SF bayarea. They don't venture out onto the bay much... perhaps 5 percent of the time and then only in the south bay. They like bird watching and don't want to kayak, since they stay out for a couple of days in a row. I think they do sail it a bit, but mostly they motor very slowly hither and yon. Not sure about a Mac26, but there's some people on my favorite lake, that have some fairly good sized sail boats, in the 22'-27' range, and there's a couple of baots that doen't have any sailing rigging on them. Interesting to note, that they will come in from the St.Louis area, in a Fri evening (especially on a holiday weekend) load dufflebags, and coolers, into their non rigged sail boat, then power there way out into the lake. some diesel, and some small outboard, and will use the boat for a weekend "water camper". they like the boat, but don't like sailing. huh No kidding. I didn't specifically say it, but these people never sail the boat in the marshland. They motor almost exclusively. The only time they raise the sails is when infrequently venturing out to visit another inlet. I don't think they turn off the engine. It's strange, but I guess they like the idea of having sails... just in case. -- Capt. JG @@ www.sailnow.com |
The Joys of Boating
On Mar 25, 8:25 pm, (Jonathan Ganz) wrote:
In article .com, Tim wrote: Far from defending the Mac26, I will say that there are situations when it seems to be appropriate. For example, I know a couple who have one, and they almost exclusively explore the marshland near a community in the SF bayarea. They don't venture out onto the bay much... perhaps 5 percent of the time and then only in the south bay. They like bird watching and don't want to kayak, since they stay out for a couple of days in a row. I think they do sail it a bit, but mostly they motor very slowly hither and yon. Not sure about a Mac26, but there's some people on my favorite lake, that have some fairly good sized sail boats, in the 22'-27' range, and there's a couple of baots that doen't have any sailing rigging on them. Interesting to note, that they will come in from the St.Louis area, in a Fri evening (especially on a holiday weekend) load dufflebags, and coolers, into their non rigged sail boat, then power there way out into the lake. some diesel, and some small outboard, and will use the boat for a weekend "water camper". they like the boat, but don't like sailing. huh No kidding. I didn't specifically say it, but these people never sail the boat in the marshland. They motor almost exclusively. The only time they raise the sails is when infrequently venturing out to visit another inlet. I don't think they turn off the engine. It's strange, but I guess they like the idea of having sails... just in case. -- Capt. JG - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's strange, but I guess they like the idea of having sails... just in case. Either that, or they like other people to know that they have a sail boat. |
The Joys of Boating
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 15:39:57 GMT, JimC wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard wrote: "Vic Smith" wrote in message ... Right. I'm not going to do an impulse buy. That's excellent that you're taking your time and doing it right. There's one moron around here by the name of JimC who claims he's a lawyer. He ran out on an impulse and bought a Mac26M and now is totally embarrassed about his uninformed entry-level purchase. It's like I'm sure people look at his boat and then find out he's a lawyer and they begin to wonder how lame is this guy. Lawyers who are worth a hoot make, what, about 500 dollars an hour so he ought to be able to afford a real boat and a classy boat at that. Anyhow, poor JimC spent probably a hundred hours posting things about how he was so happy with his purchase but you could tell he was not happy at all. Somebody who's happy with his boat doesn't spend hundreds of hours trying to convince himself how great it is. What's really sick is how Wilbur, and a few others, devote all that attention and time posting such garbage criticizing me and my boat. If he was really interested in sailing and really enjoying his own boat, he wouldn't be so interested in posting more sarcastic notes like that one. (Actually, once was enough for us to get your peculiar and biases re the Macs, Wilbur.) - Why do you go on and on on this subject? It suggests that you have some other motive, of course. - Are you jealous that I'm out sailing and enjoying my boat after you have posted all those notes explaining why I shouldn't enjoy sailing it? It's obvious that Wilbur has some personal problems and is in need of professional help. - No normal adult would get his jollies posting such childish, personal attacks on a fellow sailor, over and over again. Jim Jim, I wasn't aware that you knew Wilbur personally and so well. I wouldn't get upset too much. You are quite right in your comments. Some people regard boats as they do their cars - the newer, the more expensive, the faster and so on, the better. There is actually no best boat at all. There are boats better suited for cruising, for racing, for shallow waters, for entertaining etc., A true lover of boats and those with experience of the sea does not regard them as a status symbol to enhance the social or other status of the owner. As there is no "best" woman or man, there is no best boat. People choose boats for a number of reasons, often quite illogical - rather like marriage. I recall two boats in New Zealand that would readily incur the ridicule of such as Wilbur. One was a 18 foot open plywood home built dory with the name "John's Dory" painted on the sides in large letters. Holiday makers at the wharf of the resort town where my beach home is never gave it a second glance but stared at the large and new power boats with dreamy eyes. The interesting thing is that John, being retired, went out recreational fishing in his home built boat every day and always came back with a decent catch. His little boat was out in all weathers and was probably more seaworthy than most of the larger power boats who were kept at home by the rough seas. They often complained also of the lack of good fishing. John would never take much from the sea and gave most of his catch away to older people and others about town. A couple of times, John went out to tow in flasher boats that had broken down. He never said much and never responded when people scoffed at his boat. He was a much better seaman and fisherman than they, regardless of the monetary worth of their boats. Another boat I met several times when we lived aboard at Westhaven Marina in Auckland, New Zealand. It was built after WWII of timbers that the then owner had managed to scavenge. It was about 28 feet in length and had rigging made of plow steel, spliced with a a Liverpool splice and parceled. The inside was barren and in need of furniture there being only two perfunctionary berths. The only things on that boat that were less than 40 years old were the owner's sea boots. He was a bricklayer who lived and worked on Great Barrier Island, a day's sail northeast of Auckland. In essence, the little sailboat was his car. As the vessel was not fitted with any engine, he had become a proficient sailor and would sail to the marina mouth, turn port 90 degrees into the channel, starboard 90 degrees, then port 90 again and finally another port 90 to gently brush against the pontoon of thefinger berth. All of this under sail by himself. I doubt that I would ever be able to perform this manouvre, if I ever had to. As we usually anchor out, I have to suppress feelings of panic upon entering marinas. What was most interesting to see was that everyone's eyes were turned to watch this little rough boat coming in. Nobody said anything but watched in silent appreciation of the skill displayed. People vied to take his docklines, people whose boats were worth half a million dollars. He never said much either, even though many of the onlookers tried to engage him in conversation. We were fortunate that his berth was along from ours and we would often have him to dinner with before he set off back to the island. In writing of these two boats, several other boats and their owners have come to mind. One left a lasting impression upon my family. We were anchored by ourselves overnight near the Ranger Station on Rinja Island in Indonesia, one of the two islands that are home to the giant Komodo Dragons. Early that morning, my wife went on deck in response to a gentle knock on the hull and was presented with a 15 inch long, freshly caught fish by a small old man in an outrigger canoe about 12 to 14 feet in length. At one end of the canoe was a small broken pot on some stones where he cooked his meals. Drying in the sun were a few three and four inch long trepang or sea slugs that he had dived for and that he would later sell to the traders for a few cents - the basis of his living. He had home made diving goggles carved from wood with plastic inserts and a piece of string to hold them on his head. His only protection from the elements was one of those ubiquitous blue plastic tarpaulins folded neatly in the bow along with a cheap woven plastic prayer mat. My wife told him to wait for her to get some money but he smiled, waved and slowly paddled off. We spoke to the rangers of him later that morning and found that what we saw about him was all that he owned in the world. Cooking and eating that fish for dinner was somewhat of a religious experience. That simple man, who had made a present to those who had far more than he, taught us a valuable lesson and made a great impact on the lives of the three of us. My son, who was 9 at the time, still remembers him. We couldn't give him money - it would have been an insult; so we later sought him out and gave him some clothes, a diving mask and some flippers as well as a few other items of little real value to us. If there is one thing I have learned, it is that one should never ridicule other people's choice of boat any more than one should ridicule their occupation, station in life or choice of spouse. Cheers Peter Hendra (I do go on - don't I? Blame it on the Greek blood). |
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