On Mar 9, 11:26 pm, Charlie Morgan wrote:

will ever know. Maybe Bin Laden was in one of them. Again, we'll never know.

No, that wasn't him. I just saw him heading south on the 101
yesterday during
commuter hours. mid 80's volvo, dark. Careful, he doesn't use his
turn signals
when changing lanes...

On 9 Mar 2007 16:19:58 -0800, "tlindly" wrote:

On Mar 9, 11:26 pm, Charlie Morgan wrote:

will ever know. Maybe Bin Laden was in one of them. Again, we'll never know.

No, that wasn't him. I just saw him heading south on the 101
yesterday during
commuter hours. mid 80's volvo, dark. Careful, he doesn't use his
turn signals
when changing lanes...

My God!

I'd like to say that I'm really glad that I am not a citizen of the
land of the free where during my last visit enroute back to my boat
someone informed me that it was the only country in the world with
democracy, freedom of speech and freedom to pursue happiness.

I can't because I may be accused of being anti-American.

I think I prefer living where we have a despotic parlimentary two
party government headed nominally by the tyranical Queen of England; a
country that the US senate debated sending in troops when we elected a
labour "socialist" party in the 1930s; where we don't worship the
flag; where education and medical care is free for all and it is
illegal to catch a fish (schnapper) less than a foot long.

I guess that's why so many Americans are retiring there.

I'd like to say all of this but I'll hold my tongue out of respect for
the single American I met during 5 days who knew where New Zealand is
and that it wasn't south of Ireland nor up by Oregon.

Peter

Peter Hendra wrote:

My God!

I'd like to say that I'm really glad that I am not a citizen of the
land of the free where during my last visit enroute back to my boat
someone informed me that it was the only country in the world with
democracy, freedom of speech and freedom to pursue happiness.

I can't because I may be accused of being anti-American.

I think I prefer living where we have a despotic parlimentary two
party government headed nominally by the tyranical Queen of England; a
country that the US senate debated sending in troops when we elected a
labour "socialist" party in the 1930s; where we don't worship the
flag; where education and medical care is free for all and it is
illegal to catch a fish (schnapper) less than a foot long.

I guess that's why so many Americans are retiring there.

I'd like to say all of this but I'll hold my tongue out of respect for
the single American I met during 5 days who knew where New Zealand is
and that it wasn't south of Ireland nor up by Oregon.

Peter

Hey Peter,

Its not really as bad as some people are making it
out. I'll bet everything ends up working out just
fine. If not, I'll join you down in Maori
land--at least during the summers ;-)

Don W.

On Fri, 09 Mar 2007 21:12:30 -0600, Don W
wrote:


I guess that's why so many Americans are retiring there.

I'd like to say all of this but I'll hold my tongue out of respect for
the single American I met during 5 days who knew where New Zealand is
and that it wasn't south of Ireland nor up by Oregon.

Peter

Hey Peter,

Its not really as bad as some people are making it
out. I'll bet everything ends up working out just
fine. If not, I'll join you down in Maori
land--at least during the summers ;-)

Don W.

Hi Don,
You're welcome any time but you may miss the paranoia and general
rudeness of some of your border control officials, or those security
people roped in to fill a gap. You won't be shouted at "I said. Remove
your jacket!!" and other such rudenesses I have seen directed at your
own citizens. You will probably think the Immigration or Customs
officers want a tip when they call you "Sir". You may miss the Police
not carrying guns or sidearms or even a baton.

I know that it's not as bad as all that. I have travelled a little in
the States on several occasions and generally met nothing but very
friendly people and kind and helpful policemen. I got lost driving in
Providence, Rhode Island on my way back to Boston from Mystic Seaport
once and got invited home for dinner by one of a pair of policemen.

The growth of the siege mentality saddens me though, especially when
one realises that it does not make America safer and that Americans
(and Australians) have willing given away rights and freedoms that
previously they would have vigorously defended. Thomas Jefferson comes
to mind with his "Those who give up freedom in order to gain security
shall have, nor do they deserve, neither".

Perhaps Larry may be right. The blowing up of the Maine in 1898 to
forment the Spanish-American War comes to mind. History is full of
governments who burnt their own Reichstag.

I actually haven't been back to N.Z. since we sailed away in '96 and
live between Sydney, Australia and Malaysia where I work for Marine
Customs. There, they don't bother with yachts. The only time I stopped
a yacht was to hail it from the flying bridge of a 32 metre patrol
boat as I thought it was a friend. No paperwork, no inspections. Just
anchor or moor and wander up to Immigration. At the Johor Bahru base
there is even a pontoon with water supplied for yachtees to tie up
their dinghies securely (24 hour armed guard) whilst they walk five
minutes to the causeway bus link to Singapore. You can leave your
yacht in the country as long as you like.

The main border protection tasks are to stop smuggling of heroin (from
golden triangle to the West - automatic death penalty), cigarettes
from Indonesia and other dutiable items and illegal immigrants,
especially young children for the sex trade. Prevention of the piracy
and theft of big ships in the Malacca Straits is also a major part of
the role. To do this, new patrol boats have been built in various
sizes such as 17 metre, 2,500 HP turbo charged diesels that do over 55
knots armed with GPMGs. To zoom around in one of these (especially
with air-con) after doing 5 knots all day in a sailboat is simply
divine.

Sorry, I digress

cheers
Peter

Peter Hendra wrote:
Hey Peter,

Its not really as bad as some people are making it
out. I'll bet everything ends up working out just
fine. If not, I'll join you down in Maori
land--at least during the summers ;-)

Don W.


Hi Don,
You're welcome any time but you may miss the paranoia and general
rudeness of some of your border control officials, or those security
people roped in to fill a gap. You won't be shouted at "I said. Remove
your jacket!!" and other such rudenesses I have seen directed at your
own citizens. You will probably think the Immigration or Customs
officers want a tip when they call you "Sir". You may miss the Police
not carrying guns or sidearms or even a baton.

Peter, I've been in and out of the US many times
since 9/11 and have not personally witnessed the
type of behavior you are refering to. I don't
doubt that it occured, but it was an isolated
incident, and not the norm.

I know that it's not as bad as all that. I have travelled a little in
the States on several occasions and generally met nothing but very
friendly people and kind and helpful policemen. I got lost driving in
Providence, Rhode Island on my way back to Boston from Mystic Seaport
once and got invited home for dinner by one of a pair of policemen.

The USA is still mostly that way. We are just
getting a lot more bad press these days.

The growth of the siege mentality saddens me though, especially when
one realises that it does not make America safer and that Americans
(and Australians) have willing given away rights and freedoms that
previously they would have vigorously defended. Thomas Jefferson comes
to mind with his "Those who give up freedom in order to gain security
shall have, nor do they deserve, neither".

I think history will show that the security
changes are temporary. There were similar things
done during WWII, but they stopped as soon as the
war ended. Unfortunately, we are _really_ at war
at present although not in a traditional war with
another nation state. Furthermore, our adversary
has shown itself to favor attacks on unprotected
civilians.

Perhaps Larry may be right. The blowing up of the Maine in 1898 to
forment the Spanish-American War comes to mind. History is full of
governments who burnt their own Reichstag.

It seems your mind is made up that the Maine was
blown up by the US Government to give it an excuse
to intervene in Cuba. Doing a little bit of
Google research, it appears that your conclusion
is controversial, and not well supported by the
evidence.

Unlike Herr Hitler, or even present day Hugo
Chavez, there has been no attempt in the USA to
change the constitution in a "one-off" election to
allow a single party to hold power continually.
In fact, the Republican party has now lost control
of both houses of congress, and the Democrats are
in control. The political story of this
week--Congressional hearings on FBI abuses of
power during the last several years. The pendulum
is swinging back the other direction even as we
write. Unlike a lot of people, I have faith that
our system will correct itself.

I actually haven't been back to N.Z. since we sailed away in '96 and
live between Sydney, Australia and Malaysia where I work for Marine
Customs. There, they don't bother with yachts. The only time I stopped
a yacht was to hail it from the flying bridge of a 32 metre patrol
boat as I thought it was a friend. No paperwork, no inspections. Just
anchor or moor and wander up to Immigration. At the Johor Bahru base
there is even a pontoon with water supplied for yachtees to tie up
their dinghies securely (24 hour armed guard) whilst they walk five
minutes to the causeway bus link to Singapore. You can leave your
yacht in the country as long as you like.

Sounds great. That is the way it should be.
Fortunately, Singapore and Australia have not been
directly attacked, and so have not developed
"paranoia" yet.

The main border protection tasks are to stop smuggling of heroin (from
golden triangle to the West - automatic death penalty), cigarettes
from Indonesia and other dutiable items and illegal immigrants,
especially young children for the sex trade. Prevention of the piracy
and theft of big ships in the Malacca Straits is also a major part of
the role. To do this, new patrol boats have been built in various
sizes such as 17 metre, 2,500 HP turbo charged diesels that do over 55
knots armed with GPMGs. To zoom around in one of these (especially
with air-con) after doing 5 knots all day in a sailboat is simply
divine.

Sounds like fun.

cheers
Peter

Regards,

Don W.

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 19:08:04 GMT, Don W
wrote:



Peter, I've been in and out of the US many times
since 9/11 and have not personally witnessed the
type of behavior you are refering to. I don't
doubt that it occured, but it was an isolated
incident, and not the norm.


The USA is still mostly that way. We are just
getting a lot more bad press these days.


I think history will show that the security
changes are temporary. There were similar things
done during WWII, but they stopped as soon as the
war ended. Unfortunately, we are _really_ at war
at present although not in a traditional war with
another nation state. Furthermore, our adversary
has shown itself to favor attacks on unprotected
civilians.

It seems your mind is made up that the Maine was
blown up by the US Government to give it an excuse
to intervene in Cuba. Doing a little bit of
Google research, it appears that your conclusion
is controversial, and not well supported by the
evidence.

Unlike Herr Hitler, or even present day Hugo
Chavez, there has been no attempt in the USA to
change the constitution in a "one-off" election to
allow a single party to hold power continually.
In fact, the Republican party has now lost control
of both houses of congress, and the Democrats are
in control. The political story of this
week--Congressional hearings on FBI abuses of
power during the last several years. The pendulum
is swinging back the other direction even as we
write. Unlike a lot of people, I have faith that
our system will correct itself.

Sounds great. That is the way it should be.
Fortunately, Singapore and Australia have not been
directly attacked, and so have not developed
"paranoia" yet.



Regards,

Don W.

Hi Don,

I do so hope that you are right that the pendalum is swinging back.
The events of the past few years are rather scary as viewed from the
outside. It would be sad if the great American experiment were to end
up just as that - an experiment. I have always been an admirer of what
the US purports to stand for and though I would not really care to
live there, it is a great place to visit.

People are generally the same world wide, and the US is no exception,
but I was recently priviledged to meet a real gem who runs a
ramshackle restaurant - "Joanie's Place" converted from an old garage
on the east-west road through the Everglades. Joanie is in her late
60s and makes the most fantastic key lime pie and fried green tomatos
amongst other culinary delights. She was kind enough to show me how to
cook them and give me some recipes. I would prefer to think of
Americans as such as Joanie, the National Park rangers, the helpful
people in the motels and the many others who went out of their way to
help and talk to a stranger. Forget the stars and stripes, it flies
above used car lots which sort of desecrates it in a way. Key Lime Pie
(with whipped cream of course) should be your national emblem and Mark
Twain (I seldom meet an American who has read him excepting maybe "Tom
Sawyer"), Ernest Hemmingway, O Henry and a few such should be elected
to your senate as senior statesmen.

It is unfortunate that you are all getting tarred by the same bad
press.

By the way, we in South East Asia also have to guard against terrorism
including both fundamental Christian and Islamic groups such as in
Indonesia. However, I would like to say that killing non-combatants is
strictly prohibited by the Koran and is thus un-Islamic and abhorant
to most Moslems of my aquaintance. You may only make war on those who
bear arms against you. The Turkish armies for example carried a small
Koran tied to their battle standards so that the Law of the Koran
would enter conquered cities before them.

cheers
Peter