A Call To Arms (really brief)

I have intentionally left out the Island Packet Group from this mail
distribution, as there's currently an argument brewing there, about
anyone
accepting help from others, but...

We're outta here, as you know from the latest stuff. However, there's
a few
patches we need to do.

Many people have offered to help, directly, in our rebuild. We hope
to be
the beneficiary of that in St. Pete. However, for the immediate
term,
there's some patching to do before we get in the water to head home.

For the next 4 days (through the weekend), anyone who has the
willingness to
help with the grinding and application of fiberglass is solicited to
hang
out with us at Keys Boat Works in Marathon. Inexperience is not a
factor,
as there's plenty of hold/hand-to type stuff to do in this process.

I've not yet been to the office to confirm, but we expect to be put in
the
water on a rising tide (the better to clear the shallows in the ICW on
the
way out) on Monday. We'd go today, but there's too much to do to
accomplish
it in one day (launch Friday), unless there were already a cadre
ready
today.

And, as an update of sorts, many knowledgeable folks have written with
their
own boats' stories. It appears very certain that we will be quite
secure to
do minimal repairs, addressing other stuff later, as we are able.

So, we're getting back on the horse as soon as it's back in the barn.

Even if you're not one of the ones who'd offered, thanks for your
support.
We can't adequately express how blessed we are to be surrounded by
the
protection of the cruising community.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

On Feb 15, 11:06 am, "Skip Gundlach" wrote:
A Call To Arms (really brief)

I have intentionally left out the Island Packet Group from this mail
distribution, as there's currently an argument brewing there, about
anyone
accepting help from others, but...


Well course they would argue about it, if you can afford an Island
Packet you probably don't need the help of others.

Update: we have just learned that our boat has been declared a total
loss, a not-unexpected outcome.

What the implications for that are we don't yet know. A message left
by the next level adjuster (after having been turned over by the
medical/injuries adjuster to whom it was first assigned based on our
being taken to a hospital after the Coast Guard pulled us off, their
standard procedure) suggests that there will be a net dollar
settlement, with us keeping the boat.

While we may not like the dollar amount, being able to keep our boat
is absolutely key, as this is our only home, and our only possessions
are aboard. So, for the moment, this is very encouraging,
particularly in light of the below.

A marine investigator came out last week and looked at the hull and
immediately left. The yard sent a report to the marine investigator
yesterday to the effect that there was no way they could quote on the
full repair without disassembling the interior of the boat. The
exterior (new rudder, fiberglass, bottom paint, bootstripe and general
paint), came to under 40K, which is well under the policy limits - but
says nothing about paying for the salvage, of course, nor the interior
repairs needed to totally restore the boat to the same condition as
when we went ashore.

General consensus of all we have heard from, including, today, the
fiberglass guy who will be consulting on our quick-and-dirty repairs,
is that if we patch the ground up exterior, and either replace or
repair the rudder, we will be a much better boat than 2/3 of what's
out there doing what we want to do; if we, over time, make the tabbing
repairs ourselves, we'll be very close to, or perhaps, even, better,
than when we got the boat.

The financial parts are entirely unknown at this point, and in order
to make it all happen, now, we are coming out of pocket. Various
opinions have it that we'll be offered the boat free so they don't
have to deal with it (after whatever values we agree upon), to
accepting some lowered settlement, but getting to keep the boat. I
expect the latter, but they may demand the title in order to settle,
which would be very bad, both in that we'd then have to buy it back,
and that it would be a salvage title, uninsurable even for another,
perhaps.

It's still an unknown - but we're proceeding on the basis of expecting
to keep the boat one way or the other, or we'll be stuck in limbo for
an indeterminate time. We're doing the initial "emergency" repairs
here, and expect to go to St. Petersburg for the balance of the work
we have to do.

On the subject of St. Pete, we've had many recommendations of other
yards. For a large variety of reasons, we've decided to stick with
the yard we know. Many other opportunities exist, but there are
advantages, not the least of which is much of Lydia's family being in
that area, which will drive us to that decision.

However, while we expected to be able to leave Monday, weather here
and toward our destination is really lousy, or dangerous, depending on
how you look at it. So, we're going to make lemonade out of the
lemons presented, and do as much as we possibly can while we're here.

The fiberglass contractor whose business is in the yard has been
consulting with us as we do all the prep work. We'll have pictures up
sometime soon on the stuff we're doing right now, but the simple
presentation is that this is one stout boat, and the hull repairs are
very straightforward. Mostly a few holes to fill, and then layup of
great sheets of fiberglass and resin.

The rudder isn't much more complicated other than having to re-adhere
the skin on the starboard side, and build up the interior in order to
fabricate some more skin, but just taper the edge to the level of the
larger piece remaining. Most likely we'll replace the rudder,as it's
suffered a lot. There's also all the skin now exposed which will have
to get the barrier coat, as well as replacing all that bottom paint.

Because the boot stripe was a bit abused in a few places, as well,
we'll take advantage of the reality of the very low water line to make
that the new water line, and make a new boot stripe above it. In the
course of grinding off the bottom paint to make a good bonding point
for the new fiberglass, we saw that the waterline had already been
raised by an inch some time in the past. I also discovered a large
gouge which had been simply faired in with the equivalent of Bondo,
courtesy of some prior owner. This old gal has been through a lot...

While we're adjusting the white parts of the hull, we'll take the
exhaust, currently (considerably!) below the water line at the stern,
and make it a side exit, where one can actually see the water coming
out.

And, of course, we'll also repair all the stuff on deck or above which
has been either damaged or entirely lost. All this will take a month
or two, after which we'll head out again.

Thanks for asking. More pix going up, tonight. Also, if you're one of
those who've sent money off to the trust, we got our first check
today, without attribution, so we don't know our benefactors. If you
were part of it, please accept our heartfelt thanks. We can't
emphasize enough how blessed we are by the cruising community.

L8R

Skip and Lydia

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-
half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats;
messing about in boats-or *with* boats.

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter,
that's the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never
get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to
do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Update: we have just learned that our boat has been declared a total
loss, a not-unexpected outcome.

What the implications for that are we don't yet know. A message left
by the next level adjuster (after having been turned over by the
medical/injuries adjuster to whom it was first assigned based on our
being taken to a hospital after the Coast Guard pulled us off, their
standard procedure) suggests that there will be a net dollar
settlement, with us keeping the boat.

While we may not like the dollar amount, being able to keep our boat
is absolutely key, as this is our only home, and our only possessions
are aboard. So, for the moment, this is very encouraging,
particularly in light of the below.

A marine investigator came out last week and looked at the hull and
immediately left. The yard sent a report to the marine investigator
yesterday to the effect that there was no way they could quote on the
full repair without disassembling the interior of the boat. The
exterior (new rudder, fiberglass, bottom paint, bootstripe and general
paint), came to under 40K, which is well under the policy limits - but
says nothing about paying for the salvage, of course, nor the interior
repairs needed to totally restore the boat to the same condition as
when we went ashore.

General consensus of all we have heard from, including, today, the
fiberglass guy who will be consulting on our quick-and-dirty repairs,
is that if we patch the ground up exterior, and either replace or
repair the rudder, we will be a much better boat than 2/3 of what's
out there doing what we want to do; if we, over time, make the tabbing
repairs ourselves, we'll be very close to, or perhaps, even, better,
than when we got the boat.

The financial parts are entirely unknown at this point, and in order
to make it all happen, now, we are coming out of pocket. Various
opinions have it that we'll be offered the boat free so they don't
have to deal with it (after whatever values we agree upon), to
accepting some lowered settlement, but getting to keep the boat. I
expect the latter, but they may demand the title in order to settle,
which would be very bad, both in that we'd then have to buy it back,
and that it would be a salvage title, uninsurable even for another,
perhaps.

It's still an unknown - but we're proceeding on the basis of expecting
to keep the boat one way or the other, or we'll be stuck in limbo for
an indeterminate time. We're doing the initial "emergency" repairs
here, and expect to go to St. Petersburg for the balance of the work
we have to do.

On the subject of St. Pete, we've had many recommendations of other
yards. For a large variety of reasons, we've decided to stick with
the yard we know. Many other opportunities exist, but there are
advantages, not the least of which is much of Lydia's family being in
that area, which will drive us to that decision.

However, while we expected to be able to leave Monday, weather here
and toward our destination is really lousy, or dangerous, depending on
how you look at it. So, we're going to make lemonade out of the
lemons presented, and do as much as we possibly can while we're here.

The fiberglass contractor whose business is in the yard has been
consulting with us as we do all the prep work. We'll have pictures up
sometime soon on the stuff we're doing right now, but the simple
presentation is that this is one stout boat, and the hull repairs are
very straightforward. Mostly a few holes to fill, and then layup of
great sheets of fiberglass and resin.

The rudder isn't much more complicated other than having to re-adhere
the skin on the starboard side, and build up the interior in order to
fabricate some more skin, but just taper the edge to the level of the
larger piece remaining. Most likely we'll replace the rudder,as it's
suffered a lot. There's also all the skin now exposed which will have
to get the barrier coat, as well as replacing all that bottom paint.

Because the boot stripe was a bit abused in a few places, as well,
we'll take advantage of the reality of the very low water line to make
that the new water line, and make a new boot stripe above it. In the
course of grinding off the bottom paint to make a good bonding point
for the new fiberglass, we saw that the waterline had already been
raised by an inch some time in the past. I also discovered a large
gouge which had been simply faired in with the equivalent of Bondo,
courtesy of some prior owner. This old gal has been through a lot...

While we're adjusting the white parts of the hull, we'll take the
exhaust, currently (considerably!) below the water line at the stern,
and make it a side exit, where one can actually see the water coming
out.

And, of course, we'll also repair all the stuff on deck or above which
has been either damaged or entirely lost. All this will take a month
or two, after which we'll head out again.

Thanks for asking. More pix going up, tonight. Also, if you're one of
those who've sent money off to the trust, we got our first check
today, without attribution, so we don't know our benefactors. If you
were part of it, please accept our heartfelt thanks. We can't
emphasize enough how blessed we are by the cruising community.

L8R

Skip and Lydia

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-
half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats;
messing about in boats-or *with* boats.

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter,
that's the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never
get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to
do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

[And, of course, we'll also repair all the stuff on deck or above which
has been either damaged or entirely lost. All this will take a month
or two, after which we'll head out again.]
================================================== ====================
Yo ,, Skip..... in two months it will be the beginning of hurricane season
in Florida. Well, at the least the beginning of the beginning.

How about getting your boat fixed, having it trucked to Maine, and starting
out from there. I can steer you in the direction of a few yards that will
do you right, and you can get out of Florida so that the Karma will be
better when you set forth for your second trip to paradise.

=============

Probably cost a couple of grand to get her up to Maine. But .. at least we
don't have reefs, just big rocks. When you ground up here, there is no
calling the adjustor ........ unless his name is Charley and he is a Tuna.

================================================== ==========

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
oups.com...
Update: we have just learned that our boat has been declared a total
loss, a not-unexpected outcome.

What the implications for that are we don't yet know. A message left
by the next level adjuster (after having been turned over by the
medical/injuries adjuster to whom it was first assigned based on our
being taken to a hospital after the Coast Guard pulled us off, their
standard procedure) suggests that there will be a net dollar
settlement, with us keeping the boat.

While we may not like the dollar amount, being able to keep our boat
is absolutely key, as this is our only home, and our only possessions
are aboard. So, for the moment, this is very encouraging,
particularly in light of the below.

A marine investigator came out last week and looked at the hull and
immediately left. The yard sent a report to the marine investigator
yesterday to the effect that there was no way they could quote on the
full repair without disassembling the interior of the boat. The
exterior (new rudder, fiberglass, bottom paint, bootstripe and general
paint), came to under 40K, which is well under the policy limits - but
says nothing about paying for the salvage, of course, nor the interior
repairs needed to totally restore the boat to the same condition as
when we went ashore.

General consensus of all we have heard from, including, today, the
fiberglass guy who will be consulting on our quick-and-dirty repairs,
is that if we patch the ground up exterior, and either replace or
repair the rudder, we will be a much better boat than 2/3 of what's
out there doing what we want to do; if we, over time, make the tabbing
repairs ourselves, we'll be very close to, or perhaps, even, better,
than when we got the boat.

The financial parts are entirely unknown at this point, and in order
to make it all happen, now, we are coming out of pocket. Various
opinions have it that we'll be offered the boat free so they don't
have to deal with it (after whatever values we agree upon), to
accepting some lowered settlement, but getting to keep the boat. I
expect the latter, but they may demand the title in order to settle,
which would be very bad, both in that we'd then have to buy it back,
and that it would be a salvage title, uninsurable even for another,
perhaps.

It's still an unknown - but we're proceeding on the basis of expecting
to keep the boat one way or the other, or we'll be stuck in limbo for
an indeterminate time. We're doing the initial "emergency" repairs
here, and expect to go to St. Petersburg for the balance of the work
we have to do.

On the subject of St. Pete, we've had many recommendations of other
yards. For a large variety of reasons, we've decided to stick with
the yard we know. Many other opportunities exist, but there are
advantages, not the least of which is much of Lydia's family being in
that area, which will drive us to that decision.

However, while we expected to be able to leave Monday, weather here
and toward our destination is really lousy, or dangerous, depending on
how you look at it. So, we're going to make lemonade out of the
lemons presented, and do as much as we possibly can while we're here.

The fiberglass contractor whose business is in the yard has been
consulting with us as we do all the prep work. We'll have pictures up
sometime soon on the stuff we're doing right now, but the simple
presentation is that this is one stout boat, and the hull repairs are
very straightforward. Mostly a few holes to fill, and then layup of
great sheets of fiberglass and resin.

The rudder isn't much more complicated other than having to re-adhere
the skin on the starboard side, and build up the interior in order to
fabricate some more skin, but just taper the edge to the level of the
larger piece remaining. Most likely we'll replace the rudder,as it's
suffered a lot. There's also all the skin now exposed which will have
to get the barrier coat, as well as replacing all that bottom paint.

Because the boot stripe was a bit abused in a few places, as well,
we'll take advantage of the reality of the very low water line to make
that the new water line, and make a new boot stripe above it. In the
course of grinding off the bottom paint to make a good bonding point
for the new fiberglass, we saw that the waterline had already been
raised by an inch some time in the past. I also discovered a large
gouge which had been simply faired in with the equivalent of Bondo,
courtesy of some prior owner. This old gal has been through a lot...

While we're adjusting the white parts of the hull, we'll take the
exhaust, currently (considerably!) below the water line at the stern,
and make it a side exit, where one can actually see the water coming
out.

And, of course, we'll also repair all the stuff on deck or above which
has been either damaged or entirely lost. All this will take a month
or two, after which we'll head out again.

Thanks for asking. More pix going up, tonight. Also, if you're one of
those who've sent money off to the trust, we got our first check
today, without attribution, so we don't know our benefactors. If you
were part of it, please accept our heartfelt thanks. We can't
emphasize enough how blessed we are by the cruising community.

L8R

Skip and Lydia

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery!
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-
half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats;
messing about in boats-or *with* boats.

In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter,
that's the charm of it.

Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never
get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to
do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:TZCBh.565$ZF1.203@trndny02...
[And, of course, we'll also repair all the stuff on deck or above which
has been either damaged or entirely lost. All this will take a month
or two, after which we'll head out again.]
================================================== ====================
Yo ,, Skip..... in two months it will be the beginning of hurricane season
in Florida. Well, at the least the beginning of the beginning.

How about getting your boat fixed, having it trucked to Maine, and
starting out from there. I can steer you in the direction of a few yards
that will do you right, and you can get out of Florida so that the Karma
will be better when you set forth for your second trip to paradise.

=============

Probably cost a couple of grand to get her up to Maine. But .. at least
we don't have reefs, just big rocks. When you ground up here, there is no
calling the adjustor ........ unless his name is Charley and he is a Tuna.


A couple of grand from the Keys to Maine with a 50 foot load? I would put
the pricetag at four times that, at least.

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:TZCBh.565$ZF1.203@trndny02...
[And, of course, we'll also repair all the stuff on deck or above which
has been either damaged or entirely lost. All this will take a month
or two, after which we'll head out again.]
================================================== ====================
Yo ,, Skip..... in two months it will be the beginning of hurricane
season in Florida. Well, at the least the beginning of the beginning.

How about getting your boat fixed, having it trucked to Maine, and
starting out from there. I can steer you in the direction of a few yards
that will do you right, and you can get out of Florida so that the Karma
will be better when you set forth for your second trip to paradise.

=============

Probably cost a couple of grand to get her up to Maine. But .. at least
we don't have reefs, just big rocks. When you ground up here, there is
no calling the adjustor ........ unless his name is Charley and he is a
Tuna.


A couple of grand from the Keys to Maine with a 50 foot load? I would put
the pricetag at four times that, at least.


Wrong tiger tongue... I priced it out. If you are willing to play the game
a little .. that is: when the truck goes south it does not want to come
back empty .. you can save thousands. The trick is the drop off. Ya gotta
plan that part out.

You are off on the price.

I know, I spoke to the trucker just recently.

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:fKEBh.5466$am1.4184@trndny01...

"KLC Lewis" wrote in message
et...
A couple of grand from the Keys to Maine with a 50 foot load? I would put
the pricetag at four times that, at least.


Wrong tiger tongue... I priced it out. If you are willing to play the
game a little .. that is: when the truck goes south it does not want to
come back empty .. you can save thousands. The trick is the drop off.
Ya gotta plan that part out.

You are off on the price.

I know, I spoke to the trucker just recently.




All I can say is that would be an incredibly good price for that load and
trip. Best price I could get on moving Essie from Long Beach to Green Bay
was $4000 and change, and she's only a quarter the weight and significantly
smaller than a Morgan 461. And that was four years ago, when gas was almost
cheap.

On Feb 17, 7:58 am, "NE Sailboat" wrote:
[And, of course, we'll also repair all the stuff on deck or above which
has been either damaged or entirely lost. All this will take a month
or two, after which we'll head out again.]
================================================== ====================
Yo ,, Skip..... in two months it will be the beginning of hurricane season
in Florida. Well, at the least the beginning of the beginning.

How about getting your boat fixed, having it trucked to Maine, and starting
out from there. I can steer you in the direction of a few yards that will
do you right, and you can get out of Florida so that the Karma will be
better when you set forth for your second trip to paradise.

I really do like Maine - I vacationed there off the coast, near Small
Point, north of Bath, many years. However, until July or August, it
won't be close to warm enough to suit Lydia.

Worse, to prep the boat for shipping (never mind the shipping costs -
which were quoted as 1800 from Marathon to St. Pete on a backhaul -
probably a bit higher from one end of the country to the other) would
be thousands of dollars we don't have (then there's getting *us*
there, as well), and more thousands to recommission it.

Maybe for rich folks but certainly not us.

That's not to say we might not do the east coast, and wind up that far
north, by that time. Lydia's a lot more amenable to an East Coast
shake*down*, now, having been shaken *up* lately, and our real
departure time would be about right for the weather which suits her,
which is 70-85 or so. We're guessing at a couple of months, max.

But, things are changing so fast WRT our realities that we really
can't plan much beyond getting to St. Pete to attend to the few things
we have left (make the radar reliable, do another epoxy barrier coat
on all the new stuff, and then new bottom job on the stuff which got
bare, as much of the tabbing on the interior as we can get to, raise
the waterline by covering the boot stripe when we do the bottom job,
make the exhaust come out the side next to the engine room rather than
under water at the stern, send the prop off for service [slightly bent
one ear, no gouges] repair our sails [main and genny currently off,
stowed for transit; we'll use the staysail for steadying as we motor],
replace the stuff torn off in the wind, and in the meantime, look for
acceleration on our captain's courses originally scheduled for June,
so we don't have to come back for those, enjoy her
'grandchildren' (her kids' pets), and perhaps actually get to slow
down a bit.

So, it's unlikely we'll truck it anywhere, let alone from one end of
the country to the other. However, we might come sail that area...

L8R

Skip and Lydia, trucking right along

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

On Feb 17, 10:04 pm, "Skip Gundlach" wrote:
look for
acceleration on our captain's courses originally scheduled for June,
so we don't have to come back for those,

Why are you bothering with getting those?