BoatBanter.com - Mob Rules

BoatBanter.com (https://www.boatbanter.com/)

- Cruising (https://www.boatbanter.com/cruising/)

- - Mob Rules (https://www.boatbanter.com/cruising/78264-mob-rules.html)

The one thinh I would add to JimB's response ---

My golden rule has always been ---- If you go overboard, you are going to
die. If you don't want to die, don't fall over board. IMHO, this is the
best starting point. If you become too comfortable in the ability of the
crew to do a recovery, you may get a bit too sloopy in your attention to
safety. Having said that, yeah .... have a plan and practice it.

"News f2s" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

One thing to keep in mind is that everytime you add something to do, you
in some way take away from the actual recovery. The best approach is to
stop the boat next to the MOB, protecting them from the wind/waves. Then
figure a way to get them aboard.

Very important in cold water, when speed is vital. Not so important in
warm water when you've got time to experiment a bit. My way:

1. Get them attached to the boat with whatever . . . then pull 'em to the
bathing ladder, get 'em to climb up. ( I know, a whole lot of people will
groan about the possibility of injury in waves. Injury is much better than
losing your ability to climb thru chill due to hanging around. See next.)

2. If they can't climb the ladder (too cold? unfit? It's not there?)
launch whatever dinghy you have (include the liferaft in this list in cold
water), stabilise the yacht motion, let 'em climb in. (this is where the
OP idea is good news - dink's already there.)

3. When they can't climb in, send someone down to drag 'em in.

4. If you're the only one, decide whether it's two at risk, or one to die.
Difficult, eh?

Alternative 2. Attach rope (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)
Alternative 3. Pull 'em up (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)

Most people find any alternatives fail with only two aboard.

My conclusions:

A. It's foolish to go to sea in a boat which can't be boarded from the
water by a fit person.
B. A ladder's best, next best is a dinghy/liferaft in the water.
C. Any other system which hasn't been rehearsed won't work without a
strong crew.

OK, fire away.

JimB
www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
comparing the cruise areas of Europe, Greece in detail.

"Don W" wrote in message
news:ahbAh.9596

You might experiment with this during the summer by jumping overboard
while the boat is going 7kts and seeing how hard it is to grab the dink as
it goes by.

I can tell you now, Don, that grabbing a dink doing 5 kts was impossible.
Trying to drag my clothed body thru the water was far too much for my grip
to last more than a few seconds. Quite apart from the hell of being rolled
over by taking a bad grip in the first place . . .

JimB

"News f2s" wrote in message
...

"Don W" wrote in message
news:ahbAh.9596

You might experiment with this during the summer by jumping overboard
while the boat is going 7kts and seeing how hard it is to grab the dink
as it goes by.

I can tell you now, Don, that grabbing a dink doing 5 kts was impossible.
Trying to drag my clothed body thru the water was far too much for my grip
to last more than a few seconds. Quite apart from the hell of being rolled
over by taking a bad grip in the first place . . .

JimB

Charlie Sheen can do it. I saw it in a movie.

"News f2s" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message

One thing to keep in mind is that everytime you add something to do, you
in some way take away from the actual recovery. The best approach is to
stop the boat next to the MOB, protecting them from the wind/waves. Then
figure a way to get them aboard.

Very important in cold water, when speed is vital. Not so important in
warm water when you've got time to experiment a bit. My way:

Actually, accuracy in getting the boat next to the MOB and getting the boat
stopped is more important than speed. It's better to slow things down and
get it right, unless you're talking about arctic waters. In 55 degree water,
the person will be a live quite a long time.. many hours. However, they'll
be unable to help themselves in 20 minutes or so. The most important thing
to have happen is for the person to have a PFD, since this will extend their
survival time.

1. Get them attached to the boat with whatever . . . then pull 'em to the
bathing ladder, get 'em to climb up. ( I know, a whole lot of people will
groan about the possibility of injury in waves. Injury is much better than
losing your ability to climb thru chill due to hanging around. See next.)

Ladders on the stern are not a good way to recover someone, due to wave/boat
slam. The boat is a lot more stable on the beam, with less chance of getting
hit by the boat, the prop, etc.

2. If they can't climb the ladder (too cold? unfit? It's not there?)
launch whatever dinghy you have (include the liferaft in this list in cold
water), stabilise the yacht motion, let 'em climb in. (this is where the
OP idea is good news - dink's already there.)

Maybe... even probably, but why not just rig something with the tools
available on the boat... you have winches, halyards... use them.

3. When they can't climb in, send someone down to drag 'em in.

Bad idea in most cases.

4. If you're the only one, decide whether it's two at risk, or one to die.
Difficult, eh?

If you do things right, you may not have to make this choice.

Alternative 2. Attach rope (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)
Alternative 3. Pull 'em up (how? have a plan. TRY IT beforehand.)

Most people find any alternatives fail with only two aboard.

My conclusions:

A. It's foolish to go to sea in a boat which can't be boarded from the
water by a fit person.

Even a couple of feet of freeboard will prevent most people from climbing on
by themselves.

B. A ladder's best, next best is a dinghy/liferaft in the water.

Nope. Totally disagree off the stern. Off the beam, perhaps, but watch out
for hand/foot damage from the space between the ladder and the boat.

C. Any other system which hasn't been rehearsed won't work without a
strong crew.

Every system/method must be practiced or it will not work. That's the bottom
line.

OK, fire away.

JimB
www.jimbaerselman.f2s.com/
comparing the cruise areas of Europe, Greece in detail.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
The one thinh I would add to JimB's response ---

My golden rule has always been ---- If you go overboard, you are going to
die. If you don't want to die, don't fall over board. IMHO, this is the
best starting point. If you become too comfortable in the ability of the
crew to do a recovery, you may get a bit too sloopy in your attention to
safety. Having said that, yeah .... have a plan and practice it.

For shorthanded or single-handed cruising or crusing at night on passages
when most of the people are below, you should be attached to the boat at all
times unless there's no wind and you're not moving. It's not a bad idea to
ensure that there are always two people on deck, especially at night.

I totally agree that complacency kills.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:

Ladders on the stern are not a good way to recover someone, due to wave/boat
slam. The boat is a lot more stable on the beam, with less chance of getting
hit by the boat, the prop, etc.

B. A ladder's best, next best is a dinghy/liferaft in the water.

Nope. Totally disagree off the stern. Off the beam, perhaps, but watch out
for hand/foot damage from the space between the ladder and the boat.

Capt Sir,

Due respect, but I have boarded the stern of a
dive boat in the open Pacific (8' swells) with a
60lb pack on my back, and holding my dive fins in
one hand.

You are correct that you have to be very careful
not to get bonked on the head. Still, in cold
water if you will get the stern of that boat close
to me and the ladder down, I'll take my chances
instead of waiting for you to rig something else.

(Also, on our Irwin it would be very difficult to
hit someone with the prop unless they were
completely under the boat.)

Of course, the OP is right. You should consider
that falling off the boat is like falling off of a
1000' cliff and treat it with the same respect.

Don W.

Capt. JG wrote:

"News f2s" wrote in message
...

"Don W" wrote in message
news:ahbAh.9596

You might experiment with this during the summer by jumping overboard
while the boat is going 7kts and seeing how hard it is to grab the dink
as it goes by.

I can tell you now, Don, that grabbing a dink doing 5 kts was impossible.
Trying to drag my clothed body thru the water was far too much for my grip
to last more than a few seconds. Quite apart from the hell of being rolled
over by taking a bad grip in the first place . . .

JimB

Wasn't there some guy in his 70s who managed to haul himself out of the
water when he got knocked off his boat... I seem to recall the story that
he grabbed the boat as it went by and climbed back on. Or, is this a Usenet
myth? g

I'd sure give it a try if I was the only one on
deck when I went OB, but I sure wouldn't bet on
the outcome.

Then there was the tragedy a few years back
between Fiji and New Zealand, where the guy fell
overboard at night while his wife was asleep, and
his tether was just long enough to let him drag
and drown. The wife found him when she woke up in
the morning.

Don W.

News f2s wrote:

"Don W" wrote in message
news:ahbAh.9596

You might experiment with this during the summer by jumping overboard
while the boat is going 7kts and seeing how hard it is to grab the dink as
it goes by.

I can tell you now, Don, that grabbing a dink doing 5 kts was impossible.
Trying to drag my clothed body thru the water was far too much for my grip
to last more than a few seconds. Quite apart from the hell of being rolled
over by taking a bad grip in the first place . . .

JimB

I suspected it might not be easy. I've water
skied a lot, and have tried to master the trick
where you have the boat pull you on your chest
sans skis. A lot of the good barefooters can do
this. It is a lot harder than it looks ;-)

Don W.

AMPowers wrote:

I'd like to play devil's advocate here, so I'll offer whatever
criticisms of the scheme I can, but in truth I do not really have any
expert opinion about this, I'm just speculating. I think that was what
you were asking for, please forgive me if I misunderstood.

So, from the home office in sunny California, the top ten reasons why I
think this might not work...

1) Trailing a dingy is often untenable during rough conditions, exactly
the time you'd like to incorporate the "quick release" system you proposed.

2) The dingy would need some form of covering to protect it from
becoming swamped, thereby reducing its effectiveness as a "life raft"
for the MOB.

3) The overall amount of drag the dingy would add to the vessel's
progress over the entire passage would not compensate the practical gain
of using this approach over a "life sling" or other similar device.

4) You increase the chances of fouling the prop or rudder by
continuously towing a dingy, thereby offsetting any benefits you might
have gained.

5) The dingy might be better employed as an additional search and rescue
vehicle, especially if the MOB is incapacitated and/or unable to place
themselves back on board.

6) The dingy could be lost during the attempted rescue, thereby greatly
endangering the rest of the crew should the vessel flounder.

7) The dingy could act to further injure the MOB, complicating an
already difficult situation.

8) Even if the MOB could self rescue, there is still the very real
possibility that the dingy would be overturned again.

9) Bringing the dingy back on board would require some form of winching
system in any kind of weather. This could complicate the boat layout
or its maneuverability.

10) It just looks funny.

Well said sir.

Don W.