[Geoff Schultz]

We've been having problems with a new bimini which we had constructed using
Gortex (Tenara) thread and Sunbrella. The Ship's Tailor in Deltaville, VA
did the construction. We were very happy with the fabrication, but all of
the seams leaked with water droplets forming at the needle holes. The
fabricator utilized a #18 needle and after the fact we did a huge amount of
research and have been told that they should have used a #16 needle. Based
upon partial deconstruction we saw that the fabricator sewed through the
seam-stick tape, as they should have.

We also utilized Sunbrella Supreme, which is a new fabric from Sunbrella
which is MUCH more water repellant than normal Sunbrella. The fabric had
flaws in it which didn't become apparent until we were using it. Sunbrella
was great and had a rep meet us in Annapolis to look at the construction.
Later we shipped the bimini to Glenn Raven Mills (who makes Sunbrella) and
they were absolutely great. They said that the fabric was defective and
should never had made it out of the factory. They refunded the entire cost
of having the bimini constructed ($1700) and will provide the fabric for it
to be reconstructed. I love companies who stand behind their products!

Next hurricane season we're planning on returning to Deltaville and have
the Ship's Tailor re-make the bimini. Because BlueJacket spends so much
time in the Caribbean sun, normal thread just doesn't hold up and we've
spent lots of time resewing parts of it. The Gortex thread should hold up
much better, but we're concerned about utilizing Gortex thread again.

Does anyone have positive experience with Gortex thread and Sunbrella that
they would be willing to share? Do you know what construction techniques
were used?

-- Geoff

[Garland Gray II]

This isn't what you are looking for, Geoff, but your problem w/ Tenara is
exactly what Canvas and Cushions in Hampton, VA told me would happen when I
asked about using it. She said best was to just figure on restitching after
a couple of years. I don't know how well they can match up to the old needle
holes though, if that matters. I hadn't heard anything about needle size, so
perhaps that's what is needed.
The seams that fell apart are now secured by my emergency repair with 3M
Super Weathertrim Adhesive.

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
We've been having problems with a new bimini which we had constructed
using
Gortex (Tenara) thread and Sunbrella. The Ship's Tailor in Deltaville, VA
did the construction. We were very happy with the fabrication, but all of
the seams leaked with water droplets forming at the needle holes. The
fabricator utilized a #18 needle and after the fact we did a huge amount
of
research and have been told that they should have used a #16 needle.
Based
upon partial deconstruction we saw that the fabricator sewed through the
seam-stick tape, as they should have.

We also utilized Sunbrella Supreme, which is a new fabric from Sunbrella
which is MUCH more water repellant than normal Sunbrella. The fabric had
flaws in it which didn't become apparent until we were using it.
Sunbrella
was great and had a rep meet us in Annapolis to look at the construction.
Later we shipped the bimini to Glenn Raven Mills (who makes Sunbrella) and
they were absolutely great. They said that the fabric was defective and
should never had made it out of the factory. They refunded the entire
cost
of having the bimini constructed ($1700) and will provide the fabric for
it
to be reconstructed. I love companies who stand behind their products!

Next hurricane season we're planning on returning to Deltaville and have
the Ship's Tailor re-make the bimini. Because BlueJacket spends so much
time in the Caribbean sun, normal thread just doesn't hold up and we've
spent lots of time resewing parts of it. The Gortex thread should hold up
much better, but we're concerned about utilizing Gortex thread again.

Does anyone have positive experience with Gortex thread and Sunbrella that
they would be willing to share? Do you know what construction techniques
were used?

-- Geoff

[Geoff Schultz]

I think that part of our problem is that we've having the work done in
the Chesapeake and they don't have experience with these kind of
products/problems. BlueJacket is in Ft. Lauderdale right now (awaiting
our return in a few weeks), but our experience with the with fabricators
there has been less than stellar. For one thing, I think that many of
their local customers don't spend a lot of time on their boats (other
than on the dock on nice weekends and thus don't ever really see how
well the fabrication works) and their other customers are transient and
this not around to complain if things go wrong. We fell into the later
category one job.

I will point out that BlueJacket spends the vast majority of her time in
the Caribbean. This is the first time in 7years that she's been back in
the US for any length of time. We brought her back just to have the
canvas work done. As a result our demands for canvas are vastly
different than a boat in most of the US. When BlueJacket was in the New
England area, I would never have worried about what I worry about now.
The Caribbean sun is brutal and UV resistant V92 thread just doesn't
hold up. I don't want to be re-stitching the bimini every 2 years as we
had to do in the Caribbean.

I will also point out that Sunbrella Supreme is a completely different
cloth when compared to normal Sunbrella. Sunbrella Supreme is water
proof with hydro ratings near 1000 cm vs. hydro ratings of only the high
30's with normal Sunbrella. You don't have to re-coat with 303 type
sprays (which are considered HAZMAT and you can't fly with those).
We're using Linen colored Sunbrella and every sealer that we've tried
leaves a visible mark. As Sue has said, it's like you applied clear
nail polish. For dark fabrics I think that it would be fine
..
-- Geoff

"Garland Gray II" wrote in
:

This isn't what you are looking for, Geoff, but your problem w/ Tenara
is exactly what Canvas and Cushions in Hampton, VA told me would
happen when I asked about using it. She said best was to just figure
on restitching after a couple of years. I don't know how well they can
match up to the old needle holes though, if that matters. I hadn't
heard anything about needle size, so perhaps that's what is needed.
The seams that fell apart are now secured by my emergency repair with
3M Super Weathertrim Adhesive.

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
We've been having problems with a new bimini which we had constructed
using
Gortex (Tenara) thread and Sunbrella. The Ship's Tailor in
Deltaville, VA did the construction. We were very happy with the
fabrication, but all of the seams leaked with water droplets forming
at the needle holes. The fabricator utilized a #18 needle and after
the fact we did a huge amount of
research and have been told that they should have used a #16 needle.
Based
upon partial deconstruction we saw that the fabricator sewed through
the seam-stick tape, as they should have.

We also utilized Sunbrella Supreme, which is a new fabric from
Sunbrella which is MUCH more water repellant than normal Sunbrella.
The fabric had flaws in it which didn't become apparent until we were
using it. Sunbrella
was great and had a rep meet us in Annapolis to look at the
construction. Later we shipped the bimini to Glenn Raven Mills (who
makes Sunbrella) and they were absolutely great. They said that the
fabric was defective and should never had made it out of the factory.
They refunded the entire cost
of having the bimini constructed ($1700) and will provide the fabric
for it
to be reconstructed. I love companies who stand behind their
products!

Next hurricane season we're planning on returning to Deltaville and
have the Ship's Tailor re-make the bimini. Because BlueJacket spends
so much time in the Caribbean sun, normal thread just doesn't hold up
and we've spent lots of time resewing parts of it. The Gortex thread
should hold up much better, but we're concerned about utilizing
Gortex thread again.

Does anyone have positive experience with Gortex thread and Sunbrella
that they would be willing to share? Do you know what construction
techniques were used?

-- Geoff

[Wayne.B]

On Tue, 06 Feb 2007 20:31:51 -0600, Geoff Schultz
wrote:

You don't have to re-coat with 303 type
sprays

Glenn Ashmore reported at one time that the charter outfits in the
islands are using Thompsons Water Seal with good results.

[Dennis Pogson]

Geoff Schultz" geoff"at wrote:
We've been having problems with a new bimini which we had constructed
using Gortex (Tenara) thread and Sunbrella. The Ship's Tailor in
Deltaville, VA did the construction. We were very happy with the
fabrication, but all of the seams leaked with water droplets forming
at the needle holes. The fabricator utilized a #18 needle and after
the fact we did a huge amount of research and have been told that
they should have used a #16 needle. Based upon partial
deconstruction we saw that the fabricator sewed through the
seam-stick tape, as they should have.

We also utilized Sunbrella Supreme, which is a new fabric from
Sunbrella which is MUCH more water repellant than normal Sunbrella.
The fabric had flaws in it which didn't become apparent until we were
using it. Sunbrella was great and had a rep meet us in Annapolis to
look at the construction. Later we shipped the bimini to Glenn Raven
Mills (who makes Sunbrella) and they were absolutely great. They
said that the fabric was defective and should never had made it out
of the factory. They refunded the entire cost of having the bimini
constructed ($1700) and will provide the fabric for it to be
reconstructed. I love companies who stand behind their products!

Next hurricane season we're planning on returning to Deltaville and
have the Ship's Tailor re-make the bimini. Because BlueJacket spends
so much time in the Caribbean sun, normal thread just doesn't hold up
and we've spent lots of time resewing parts of it. The Gortex thread
should hold up much better, but we're concerned about utilizing
Gortex thread again.

Does anyone have positive experience with Gortex thread and Sunbrella
that they would be willing to share? Do you know what construction
techniques were used?

-- Geoff

Spent a lifetime in waterproof clothing fabrication, and I've never heard of
Goretex thread. The only way to really waterproof needle holes is to
heat-seal the seams with waterproof tape which is coated with the same
plastic coating as the main fabric is waterproofed with. This is applied
with a special machine with hot rollers and a hot air blower to melt the
tape, and usually lasts the life of the product. All this assumes that the
main fabric is coated on the back, i.e. the inside surface of the bimini.

If the coating is in the outside of the fabric, then the usual method is to
high-frequency weld the seam using an ultrasonic welder, hence no sewing,
although some firms do sew the seam first then strip-weld inside the sewing
line usuing the same ultrasonic welder.

Goretex do supply the tape for their own laminates, but this is another
world altogether.


Dennis.

[Ernest Scribbler]

"Dennis Pogson" wrote
I've never heard of Goretex thread.

This may be what the OP refers to:
http://www.gore.com/en_xx/products/f...ng_thread.html

[Garland Gray II]

I'm hoping to see if someone can report here about having good experience
with Tenera thread, as you originally requested. If leaks are indeed the
norm, either seam sealer or regular restitching w/ dacron may be the only
answers.
If seam sealer works and looks OK on darker fabrics, it could work for me,
but sounds like not so good for you. I have started replacing my canvas with
a slightly darker Sunbrella anyway, to give my sails more uv protection.

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
I think that part of our problem is that we've having the work done in
the Chesapeake and they don't have experience with these kind of
products/problems. BlueJacket is in Ft. Lauderdale right now (awaiting
our return in a few weeks), but our experience with the with fabricators
there has been less than stellar. For one thing, I think that many of
their local customers don't spend a lot of time on their boats (other
than on the dock on nice weekends and thus don't ever really see how
well the fabrication works) and their other customers are transient and
this not around to complain if things go wrong. We fell into the later
category one job.

I will point out that BlueJacket spends the vast majority of her time in
the Caribbean. This is the first time in 7years that she's been back in
the US for any length of time. We brought her back just to have the
canvas work done. As a result our demands for canvas are vastly
different than a boat in most of the US. When BlueJacket was in the New
England area, I would never have worried about what I worry about now.
The Caribbean sun is brutal and UV resistant V92 thread just doesn't
hold up. I don't want to be re-stitching the bimini every 2 years as we
had to do in the Caribbean.

I will also point out that Sunbrella Supreme is a completely different
cloth when compared to normal Sunbrella. Sunbrella Supreme is water
proof with hydro ratings near 1000 cm vs. hydro ratings of only the high
30's with normal Sunbrella. You don't have to re-coat with 303 type
sprays (which are considered HAZMAT and you can't fly with those).
We're using Linen colored Sunbrella and every sealer that we've tried
leaves a visible mark. As Sue has said, it's like you applied clear
nail polish. For dark fabrics I think that it would be fine
.
-- Geoff

"Garland Gray II" wrote in
:

This isn't what you are looking for, Geoff, but your problem w/ Tenara
is exactly what Canvas and Cushions in Hampton, VA told me would
happen when I asked about using it. She said best was to just figure
on restitching after a couple of years. I don't know how well they can
match up to the old needle holes though, if that matters. I hadn't
heard anything about needle size, so perhaps that's what is needed.
The seams that fell apart are now secured by my emergency repair with
3M Super Weathertrim Adhesive.

"Geoff Schultz" wrote in message
.. .
We've been having problems with a new bimini which we had constructed
using
Gortex (Tenara) thread and Sunbrella. The Ship's Tailor in
Deltaville, VA did the construction. We were very happy with the
fabrication, but all of the seams leaked with water droplets forming
at the needle holes. The fabricator utilized a #18 needle and after
the fact we did a huge amount of
research and have been told that they should have used a #16 needle.
Based
upon partial deconstruction we saw that the fabricator sewed through
the seam-stick tape, as they should have.

We also utilized Sunbrella Supreme, which is a new fabric from
Sunbrella which is MUCH more water repellant than normal Sunbrella.
The fabric had flaws in it which didn't become apparent until we were
using it. Sunbrella
was great and had a rep meet us in Annapolis to look at the
construction. Later we shipped the bimini to Glenn Raven Mills (who
makes Sunbrella) and they were absolutely great. They said that the
fabric was defective and should never had made it out of the factory.
They refunded the entire cost
of having the bimini constructed ($1700) and will provide the fabric
for it
to be reconstructed. I love companies who stand behind their
products!

Next hurricane season we're planning on returning to Deltaville and
have the Ship's Tailor re-make the bimini. Because BlueJacket spends
so much time in the Caribbean sun, normal thread just doesn't hold up
and we've spent lots of time resewing parts of it. The Gortex thread
should hold up much better, but we're concerned about utilizing
Gortex thread again.

Does anyone have positive experience with Gortex thread and Sunbrella
that they would be willing to share? Do you know what construction
techniques were used?

-- Geoff