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O'Rourke
 
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Default What should I pay for this boat?

What is this boat worth paying for???

The one I'm interested in is a Cheoy Lee Robb 35 built in 1964 Teak
over Ipol with bronze and copper fastners. The engine is an Isuzu
Pisce 3 40hp 3 cylinder (which was new in 1976 and has 910 hours). The
boat can be view at: http://www.cheoyleeassociation.com/Sale/Tigre.htm

I did an inspection this weekend and found the following:

1. Plywood rot (delamination) under deck above V-berth
2. Worse plywood damage around cockpit area.
3. There are a number of steel frames near toilet that had various
degrees of rust.
4. Near the engine I found a number of what looked like cracked ribs.
There seems to have been an attempt to sister these frame but the job
does not look very good.
5. Also there is alot of rust on engine (maybe the deck over engine is
leaking).
6. A few of the thru hulls seem extensively corroded.
7. Extensive rot of hatch (but not the hatch frame) over V-berth
8. Some rot (discoloration) of teak below hatch at base of V-berth and
floor.
9. Teak deck seems to be heavily worn. A shipwright, who looked at it
the other day claims that it will cost $60K to replace the deck in
teak and $30K to replace deck in fibreglass.

However: if you look at this boat is hard not to have a very favorable
impression. Its a beautiful boat. And for the novice like myself it
seems very well maintained. Of all the wooden boats that I've looked
at in awhile, it seems to be in the best shape (maybe thats the nature
of wooden boats). Yet still, I'm looking at having to put alot of
money into her.

A little history on the boat. I believe the boat has been on the
market for almost 2 years. The original asking price was $35,000. In
June, the price was reduced to $26,000. Just this month the price has
been reduced to $22,000. The owner has left on a long cruise on his
new boat and the sale of the boat is being now handled by a broker,
although the owner can still be reached through email.

Here is a link to the photos I took:

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/eha...tos.yahoo.com/

and

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/eha...CheoyLeeRobb35


After talking with a number of Cheoy Lee Robb 35 owners, one purchased
his boat, which he claims was in similar condition for $5K. Another,
purchased his for $16K (this boat had laid teak deck so didn't have
the plywood delamination problem). However, a surveyor that I talked
to claims the Blue Book value a 1964 Robb 35 is about $20K. For a
boat in perfect condition I hear the max one could sell it for is
$40K.


What do people at this forum think?
  #2   Report Post  
DSK
 
Posts: n/a
Default What should I pay for this boat?

O'Rourke wrote:

What is this boat worth paying for???


The only sensible answer to that question is: what exactly is it worth *to you*?




The one I'm interested in is a Cheoy Lee Robb 35 built in 1964 Teak
over Ipol with bronze and copper fastners. The engine is an Isuzu
Pisce 3 40hp 3 cylinder (which was new in 1976 and has 910 hours). The
boat can be view at: http://www.cheoyleeassociation.com/Sale/Tigre.htm


Personally, I wouldn't accept it as a gift, but then I have been spoiled by a long succession of boats that were lots of fun and not much
trouble.

Two points of view- one, you have given this boat a careful inspection and found much work needed. But you still obviously want it, so the
next step is to quantify everything that you want to do to it... added gear, upgrade/modernization, outright repair... cost that out, and
see what it leaves you as a range of possible purchase prices. It seems likely to me that even with free labor, the cost of your work on
this boat is going to much exceed even the most optimistic future sale value.

Two, look around the market and see what else is out there in the same price range. You can almost take your pick of wood or ferrocement
boats in this size/price range. That, plus the fact that nobody else is qeueing up to plunk down money on this boat, suggests that it is
still overpriced.





....... A shipwright, who looked at it
the other day claims that it will cost $60K to replace the deck in
teak and $30K to replace deck in fibreglass.


Which means that it will probably cost at least $5K~ 10K in materials alone (and that, using the cheap stuff) to rebuild the deck. Listen
to the man!



However: if you look at this boat is hard not to have a very favorable
impression. Its a beautiful boat.


It's pretty, but it's not on a scale with a Herreshoff or an Alden. It's a copy of a 1950s racer-cruiser yacht, built in the Far East by
cheap labor. Nice, but it's hardly an heirloom. Not trying to be mean, just giving a somewhat-informed opinion.



.... talking with a number of Cheoy Lee Robb 35 owners, one purchased
his boat, which he claims was in similar condition for $5K. Another,
purchased his for $16K (this boat had laid teak deck so didn't have
the plywood delamination problem). However, a surveyor that I talked
to claims the Blue Book value a 1964 Robb 35 is about $20K.


That's silly. There is no 'blue book value' for sailboats, especially old wooden ones. There are not enough of them sold in any given year
to form a statistical field, and the prices & condition vary so widely that an attempt to draw one would be meaningless, besides which the
field of yacht sales is not that well organized.

I would treat all info from that source with at least a slight dosage of salt.

.... For a
boat in perfect condition I hear the max one could sell it for is
$40K.

What do people at this forum think?


Well, I have a number of friends who own (and avidly race) Herreshoff S-Boats, which are true museum-piece classics. Among them, the
common saying is that the way to have an S-Boat worth $40K is to spend $60K on it. Do you want to deal yourself a hand in this game?

If you love the boat, go for it. But hammer the price down as far as you possibly can first. And acknowledge that this boat is from an era
when sailing was an expensive and work-intensive sport. Good luck!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


  #3   Report Post  
RichH
 
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Default What should I pay for this boat?

That you denote yourself as "a novice" is probably reason to Stay Away
from such a 'project' boat.
Just ask yourself the following question: Do I want to spend LOTS of
TIME and perhaps a LOT of money in such a restoration OR do I want to
go sailing?
Without specific experience in restoration you will undoubtedly make
some very costly mistakes in the learning process.
If you want to go sailing buy yourself a good well founded old boat that
doesn't need much work, learn on that boat .... then decide if you want
a 'project' boat. Any boat will take a lot of maintenance and repair
time (or money), its usually better to maintain than repair/restore.
How much is your *time* worth?

DSK wrote:
O'Rourke wrote:


What is this boat worth paying for???



The only sensible answer to that question is: what exactly is it worth *to you*?




The one I'm interested in is a Cheoy Lee Robb 35 built in 1964 Teak
over Ipol with bronze and copper fastners. The engine is an Isuzu
Pisce 3 40hp 3 cylinder (which was new in 1976 and has 910 hours). The
boat can be view at: http://www.cheoyleeassociation.com/Sale/Tigre.htm



Personally, I wouldn't accept it as a gift, but then I have been spoiled by a long succession of boats that were lots of fun and not much
trouble.

Two points of view- one, you have given this boat a careful inspection and found much work needed. But you still obviously want it, so the
next step is to quantify everything that you want to do to it... added gear, upgrade/modernization, outright repair... cost that out, and
see what it leaves you as a range of possible purchase prices. It seems likely to me that even with free labor, the cost of your work on
this boat is going to much exceed even the most optimistic future sale value.

Two, look around the market and see what else is out there in the same price range. You can almost take your pick of wood or ferrocement
boats in this size/price range. That, plus the fact that nobody else is qeueing up to plunk down money on this boat, suggests that it is
still overpriced.





....... A shipwright, who looked at it
the other day claims that it will cost $60K to replace the deck in
teak and $30K to replace deck in fibreglass.



Which means that it will probably cost at least $5K~ 10K in materials alone (and that, using the cheap stuff) to rebuild the deck. Listen
to the man!



However: if you look at this boat is hard not to have a very favorable
impression. Its a beautiful boat.



It's pretty, but it's not on a scale with a Herreshoff or an Alden. It's a copy of a 1950s racer-cruiser yacht, built in the Far East by
cheap labor. Nice, but it's hardly an heirloom. Not trying to be mean, just giving a somewhat-informed opinion.



.... talking with a number of Cheoy Lee Robb 35 owners, one purchased
his boat, which he claims was in similar condition for $5K. Another,
purchased his for $16K (this boat had laid teak deck so didn't have
the plywood delamination problem). However, a surveyor that I talked
to claims the Blue Book value a 1964 Robb 35 is about $20K.



That's silly. There is no 'blue book value' for sailboats, especially old wooden ones. There are not enough of them sold in any given year
to form a statistical field, and the prices & condition vary so widely that an attempt to draw one would be meaningless, besides which the
field of yacht sales is not that well organized.

I would treat all info from that source with at least a slight dosage of salt.


.... For a
boat in perfect condition I hear the max one could sell it for is
$40K.

What do people at this forum think?



Well, I have a number of friends who own (and avidly race) Herreshoff S-Boats, which are true museum-piece classics. Among them, the
common saying is that the way to have an S-Boat worth $40K is to spend $60K on it. Do you want to deal yourself a hand in this game?

If you love the boat, go for it. But hammer the price down as far as you possibly can first. And acknowledge that this boat is from an era
when sailing was an expensive and work-intensive sport. Good luck!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King



  #4   Report Post  
DSK
 
Posts: n/a
Default What should I pay for this boat?

RichH wrote:

That you denote yourself as "a novice" is probably reason to Stay Away
from such a 'project' boat.
Just ask yourself the following question: Do I want to spend LOTS of
TIME and perhaps a LOT of money in such a restoration OR do I want to
go sailing?


I liked the advice given by a former regular contributor here, Fishmeal:

"If you find yourself seriously contemplating buying an old wooden boat & restoring it, first go and get a rubber mallet like the surveyors use.
Then whack yourself over the head with it, and ask yourself 'Do I still want to buy the boat?' Repeat as necessary."

As much as I admire the boats & the people who do it, it's special kind of purgatory to own an old classic and restore and/or keep her sailing.
Been there, done that....

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

  #5   Report Post  
FredB
 
Posts: n/a
Default What should I pay for this boat?

i think you've answered your own question ... it's worth 20k bluebook
.... and you'd have to spend 50k to get it there .... then wait 2 years
to sell it for 5 - 16k.



  #6   Report Post  
Bobsprit
 
Posts: n/a
Default What should I pay for this boat?

to claims the Blue Book value a 1964 Robb 35 is about $20K. For a
boat in perfect condition I hear the max one could sell it for is
$40K.


What do people at this forum think?

For what you'll pay, it's best to walk away until you can find a more sound
boat to start with. Even a boat of this type "in good condition" will require
plenty of work.
Then again these old boats are often restored at what appears to be an
irrational expence. The result are boats that are appreciated wherever they
sail. I'm glad that some odd folks pursue this seemingly insane hobby of boat
restoration.

Good luck,

Capt RB
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SAIL LOCO
 
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Default What should I pay for this boat?

The only thing I'd buy that was made in '64' is an AC Cobra.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport
  #8   Report Post  
Vito
 
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Default What should I pay for this boat?

SAIL LOCO wrote:

The only thing I'd buy that was made in '64' is an AC Cobra.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport


Hard to believe they sold for about $5000. Ditto XKE Jag's.
  #9   Report Post  
Brian Whatcott
 
Posts: n/a
Default What should I pay for this boat?

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:58:45 -0400, Vito wrote:

SAIL LOCO wrote:

The only thing I'd buy that was made in '64' is an AC Cobra.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
Trains are a winter sport


Hard to believe they sold for about $5000. Ditto XKE Jag's.


E-type: The most beautiful ragtop I ever owned - it would go faster
than the Cessna C150 I owned - but that's not saying much.

Brian W
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LaBomba182
 
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Default What should I pay for this boat?

Subject: What should I pay for this boat?
From: (O'Rourke)


What is this boat worth paying for???


snip


Nothing. And I'm not trying to be funny.

Capt. Bill


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