I'm not going to step into the fight Karin and Charlie are having down in
her thread but, along with the recent Barnes rescue, it does raise some
interesting questions. It isn't just idle philosophical musing either.
Someday, these dynamics could effect our ability to cruise freely.

The first thought I had was that, 50 years ago, Ken Barnes probably would
have figured out some sort of jury rig and limped into Chile, somewhere. Or,
he would have just died. In the absence of radios, people have done just
that (both options). I'm not implying for a minute that he's a wimp or did
anything inappropriate by calling for rescue and getting off. It's simply
that technology provided him with an option between great hazard and
suffering and rapid return to safe ground.

The by-product of the technology is that it now costs governments and
individuals breathtaking sums and effort to conduct the kind of search and
rescue that is possible and now considered the norm. These rescues are made
possible by other technologies like $1000 an hour choppers and $10,000 an
hour P3 Orion aircraft.

If there are a lot of these events, governments are going to balk at some
point at the cost. It's already happened in some wilderness recreation areas
where you have to post a bond or insurance to pay the cost of your rescue.
It's harder to control the ocean but governments could deny entry to yachts
that show up without such bond or insurance. You can anchor but you can't go
ashore or re-supply. Some countries wouldn't be above telling you that you
post bond or your boat stays there unless you have it shipped out on a
freighter (that someone's cousin just happens to own).

Draconian government intervention is probably way off, maybe forever due to
the small number of cruisers getting into trouble. Still, you have to ask
yourself about the ethics of setting off six or seven figures worth of
stranger's risking their lives when you get into trouble doing something
utterly discretionary.

I admire Karin's attitude but it isn't really practical unless you really
sneak away. Somebody is going to insist that you be searched for unless you
leave them without a clue where to look. I've had occasion to be out in
boats without telling anyone I was going and realizing that it would be a
couple weeks before anyone asked, "Whatever happened to Roger." It's
actually a wonderful and liberating feeling. If you want to cruise that way
though, you have to deny yourself and others the pleasure of postcards and,
increasingly, the Internet. If Donna doesn't show up in Puerto Williams, you
can bet there will be another huge search regardless of what she would have
wanted.

For the record, I'm not enthusiastic about singlehanding long distance
although I admire the spirit of those who do it and think the world will be
a poorer place when it is no longer permitted. Maybe Larry's right that it's
a violation of international rules but most ships don't maintain an adequate
lookout. One interpretation of the rules is that the ship maintain the best
lookout possible with the equipment and personnel on board. I'm sure Donna
Lange is doing just that.

--
Roger Long

....
If there are a lot of these events, governments are going to balk at some
point at the cost....
Draconian government intervention is probably way off, maybe forever due to
the small number of cruisers getting into trouble. ...

For a while New Zealand was requiring all small vessels leaving the
country to pass an inspection as a direct response to the costs of
rescuing yachts off shore. New Zealand is, perhaps, unique in that
visiting foreign yachts contribute significantly to the national
economy and because of this and the lobbying of both businesses and
yachties the government amended the law to only cover New Zealand
yachts. So, I would not be too sanguine about governments staying out
of this.

Still, you have to ask
yourself about the ethics of setting off six or seven figures worth of
stranger's risking their lives when you get into trouble doing something
utterly discretionary.

Yeah, but is routing a car carrier to the Bearing Sea to save a few
grand worth of bunker more or less discretionary than going for a
cruise?

... One interpretation of the rules is that the ship maintain the best
lookout possible with the equipment and personnel on board. I'm sure Donna
Lange is doing just that. ...

The Coast Guard officer who advised me when I was applying for my
master's ticket was very specific that the US interpretation is that
working more than 12 hours a day was illegal. Do you have any reason
to believe that there is a national authority anywhere that agrees with
your interpretation?

-- Tom

Roger ,, I was just looking at Donna Lange's web site.. This is from her
report on site:

As of 0300UTC jan 8, 2200local jan 7
I have rounded Cape HOrn. All is well. The weather
was quite squally, grey and rainy all day but certainly
safe and and easy rounding. I was actually driving
at that point with winds 10kn. The winds have
continued very light and i have been driving all
night i am now about 1/3 ofthe way to Puerto Williams.
It is very slow going with headwinds which are
increasing. Once I have rounded the island off
the southeast of isla Lennox, i am hoping my point
of sail south of Picton will be westerly enough
to saill. the engine is doing well and miracles!!
the Alternator spontaneously started to put out
full voltage again. this is important because
it is enabling me tokeep the computer on with the
c-map program containing the only charts i have
of this area. The night now is really only a facad
as it only lasts a few hours and the sky never
really gets dark. the moon is still quite large
illuminating. i may be able to continue on to
Puerto Williams through the night if i can deal
with not sleeping. i grabbed a half hour nap a
bit a go when the steering vane was able to hold
course. even if the wiinds are on the nose, if
there is a good wined, the vane will steer while
i am driving; i am rushing. I was greeted by a
lovely pod of dolphins as i approached the horn
and seals have been following me , much like dolphins.
just beautiful. the scenes of the snow peaked
mountains, much like the american rockies above
treeline. no trees, a low green vegetation and
very tundra like. it is pleasantly warm enough.
55*f which has been great as i have the whole boat
openn and i have to be outside. I wil do a follow
up when i reach puerto williams. it is very difficult
now to be below. so many hugs and thanks to all
for your prayers. they worked!!! All is well with
my spirit and heart. xoxoxo d
===================================

Am I missing something? She reports using the engine. Is she in some type
of race or is this a "trip" so no rules.

Maybe I am not reading this right... But, she does say

"i am hoping my point
of sail south of Picton will be westerly enough
to saill. the engine is doing well and miracles!!
the Alternator spontaneously started to put out
full voltage again."

This gets crazier with each day.

Can you explain this? I am baffled.

=====================






Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I'm not going to step into the fight Karin and Charlie are having down in
her thread but, along with the recent Barnes rescue, it does raise some
interesting questions. It isn't just idle philosophical musing either.
Someday, these dynamics could effect our ability to cruise freely.

The first thought I had was that, 50 years ago, Ken Barnes probably would
have figured out some sort of jury rig and limped into Chile, somewhere.
Or, he would have just died. In the absence of radios, people have done
just that (both options). I'm not implying for a minute that he's a wimp
or did anything inappropriate by calling for rescue and getting off. It's
simply that technology provided him with an option between great hazard
and suffering and rapid return to safe ground.

The by-product of the technology is that it now costs governments and
individuals breathtaking sums and effort to conduct the kind of search and
rescue that is possible and now considered the norm. These rescues are
made possible by other technologies like $1000 an hour choppers and
$10,000 an hour P3 Orion aircraft.

If there are a lot of these events, governments are going to balk at some
point at the cost. It's already happened in some wilderness recreation
areas where you have to post a bond or insurance to pay the cost of your
rescue. It's harder to control the ocean but governments could deny entry
to yachts that show up without such bond or insurance. You can anchor but
you can't go ashore or re-supply. Some countries wouldn't be above telling
you that you post bond or your boat stays there unless you have it shipped
out on a freighter (that someone's cousin just happens to own).

Draconian government intervention is probably way off, maybe forever due
to the small number of cruisers getting into trouble. Still, you have to
ask yourself about the ethics of setting off six or seven figures worth of
stranger's risking their lives when you get into trouble doing something
utterly discretionary.

I admire Karin's attitude but it isn't really practical unless you really
sneak away. Somebody is going to insist that you be searched for unless
you leave them without a clue where to look. I've had occasion to be out
in boats without telling anyone I was going and realizing that it would be
a couple weeks before anyone asked, "Whatever happened to Roger." It's
actually a wonderful and liberating feeling. If you want to cruise that
way though, you have to deny yourself and others the pleasure of postcards
and, increasingly, the Internet. If Donna doesn't show up in Puerto
Williams, you can bet there will be another huge search regardless of what
she would have wanted.

For the record, I'm not enthusiastic about singlehanding long distance
although I admire the spirit of those who do it and think the world will
be a poorer place when it is no longer permitted. Maybe Larry's right that
it's a violation of international rules but most ships don't maintain an
adequate lookout. One interpretation of the rules is that the ship
maintain the best lookout possible with the equipment and personnel on
board. I'm sure Donna Lange is doing just that.

--
Roger Long

"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:f7Boh.3858$1h.1663@trndny09...
Roger ,, I was just looking at Donna Lange's web site.. This is from her
report on site:

As of 0300UTC jan 8, 2200local jan 7
I have rounded Cape HOrn. All is well. The weather
was quite squally, grey and rainy all day but certainly
safe and and easy rounding. I was actually driving
at that point with winds 10kn. The winds have
continued very light and i have been driving all
night i am now about 1/3 ofthe way to Puerto Williams.
It is very slow going with headwinds which are
increasing. Once I have rounded the island off
the southeast of isla Lennox, i am hoping my point
of sail south of Picton will be westerly enough
to saill. the engine is doing well and miracles!!
the Alternator spontaneously started to put out
full voltage again. this is important because
it is enabling me tokeep the computer on with the
c-map program containing the only charts i have
of this area. The night now is really only a facad
as it only lasts a few hours and the sky never
really gets dark. the moon is still quite large
illuminating. i may be able to continue on to
Puerto Williams through the night if i can deal
with not sleeping. i grabbed a half hour nap a
bit a go when the steering vane was able to hold
course. even if the wiinds are on the nose, if
there is a good wined, the vane will steer while
i am driving; i am rushing. I was greeted by a
lovely pod of dolphins as i approached the horn
and seals have been following me , much like dolphins.
just beautiful. the scenes of the snow peaked
mountains, much like the american rockies above
treeline. no trees, a low green vegetation and
very tundra like. it is pleasantly warm enough.
55*f which has been great as i have the whole boat
openn and i have to be outside. I wil do a follow
up when i reach puerto williams. it is very difficult
now to be below. so many hugs and thanks to all
for your prayers. they worked!!! All is well with
my spirit and heart. xoxoxo d
===================================

Am I missing something? She reports using the engine. Is she in some
type of race or is this a "trip" so no rules.

Maybe I am not reading this right... But, she does say

"i am hoping my point
of sail south of Picton will be westerly enough
to saill. the engine is doing well and miracles!!
the Alternator spontaneously started to put out
full voltage again."

This gets crazier with each day.

Can you explain this? I am baffled.


It's not a race, it's a single-handed circumnavigation. She can do whatever
she likes. Sounds like she's a happy camper. :-)

Karin

On Mon, 08 Jan 2007 18:03:12 -0500, Roger Long wrote:

I'm not going to step into the fight Karin and Charlie are having down in
her thread but, along with the recent Barnes rescue, it does raise some
interesting questions. It isn't just idle philosophical musing either.
Someday, these dynamics could effect our ability to cruise freely.

The first thought I had was that, 50 years ago, Ken Barnes probably would
have figured out some sort of jury rig and limped into Chile, somewhere. Or,
he would have just died. In the absence of radios, people have done just
that (both options). I'm not implying for a minute that he's a wimp or did
anything inappropriate by calling for rescue and getting off. It's simply
that technology provided him with an option between great hazard and
suffering and rapid return to safe ground.

The by-product of the technology is that it now costs governments and
individuals breathtaking sums and effort to conduct the kind of search and
rescue that is possible and now considered the norm. These rescues are made
possible by other technologies like $1000 an hour choppers and $10,000 an
hour P3 Orion aircraft.

If there are a lot of these events, governments are going to balk at some
point at the cost.

Keep in mind that these are mostly sunk costs. We're going to have top
notch search and rescue crews available no matter what. Whether they work
every day or not, the cost is not much different.

It's already happened in some wilderness recreation areas
where you have to post a bond or insurance to pay the cost of your rescue.

The French have one good solution with very affordable insurance for
mountaineers.

Forgetting arguments about the ethics of putting others in danger, or
restriction of personal freedom -- it may actually cost more to try
to regulate these situations out of existence than to simply continue to
do rescues when needed. What's the cost of collecting bonds, checking
that everyone's insured, policing insurance and bond companies, etc?
(Insurance companies are probably already licking their chops.) Same with
licensing requirements -- where you wouldn't be allowed out of the harbor
until you've gotten some kind of a license.

I hope it never comes to that.

Matt O.

NE Sailboat wrote:

Can you explain this? I am baffled.

It's sailor stuff. You wouldn't understand.

--
Roger Long

Matt O'Toole wrote:

Keep in mind that these are mostly sunk costs. We're going to have
top notch search and rescue crews available no matter what. Whether
they work every day or not, the cost is not much different.

Remember though that governments don't make decisions that way. It won't be
the actual cost benifit analysis that drives the decision but the public
perception that lots of their money is being spent to rescue rich yachtsmen.

--
Roger Long

In article ,
Matt O'Toole wrote:

Keep in mind that these are mostly sunk costs. We're going to have
top notch search and rescue crews available no matter what. Whether
they work every day or not, the cost is not much different.


Not quite true. Costs to *operate* the machinery is quite high, though
I'll admit that the fixed costs are probably still higher. Get a *lot*
of calls, that would change.


--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/