Gee, do I have to spell everything out! My comment was directed to the concept
that boats are unsinkable, period. They said the Titanic could never sink. Get
the
analogy? I guess not.

I personally would rather take my chances on a boat that most likely will go
back
to an upright position where I have a chance of salvaging enough rigging to
continue
sailing. We are slaves to our EPIRB's to get us out of trouble. Your first
thought
when in trouble at sea is how can I recover a bad situation, not make a grab for
the
EPIRB. Of course, in the case of an upsidedown multihull, they didn't have much

of a choice.

Sherwin D.

Jeff wrote:

sherwindu wrote:
Yeah, that's what they said about the Titanic.

You're using the Titanic as an example of why monohulls are safer than
multis? That's a pretty convincing argument.

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Gee, do I have to spell everything out! My comment was directed to the
concept
that boats are unsinkable, period. They said the Titanic could never
sink. Get
the
analogy? I guess not.

I personally would rather take my chances on a boat that most likely will
go
back
to an upright position where I have a chance of salvaging enough rigging
to
continue
sailing. We are slaves to our EPIRB's to get us out of trouble. Your
first
thought
when in trouble at sea is how can I recover a bad situation, not make a
grab for
the
EPIRB. Of course, in the case of an upsidedown multihull, they didn't
have much

of a choice.

Sherwin D.


The logical choice is to pick the most survivable situation and to recognize
when a situation is becoming untenable. I suggest that you've never been in
a washing machine-style situation, where everything (as a best case) is
going round and round and everything is flying. It's not a place you would
want to stay for very long. Need a dramatic account? Read Fastnet Force 10.
The mono will capsize, then right itself, perhaps a number of times, and if
you're very lucky, you won't be killed or injured by the flying debris. If
you're unlucky, water will enter and the boat will right itself on the
bottom.

On the other hand, if a multi capsizes, it will likely stay capsized
providing a stable and likely livable place to await rescue.

No where have I seen anyone suggest that triggering an EPIRB is a first
action or even third option, but neither is it necessary to wait until the
situation is unsalvagable to trigger it. When you say, "they didn't have
much choice," you imply that they had a choice at all. It's more likely
that they were swept overboard before being able to get to it or below.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message ...
"sherwindu" wrote in message ...
Gee, do I have to spell everything out! My comment was directed to the concept
that boats are unsinkable, period. They said the Titanic could never sink. Get
the
analogy? I guess not.

I personally would rather take my chances on a boat that most likely will go
back
to an upright position where I have a chance of salvaging enough rigging to
continue
sailing. We are slaves to our EPIRB's to get us out of trouble. Your first
thought
when in trouble at sea is how can I recover a bad situation, not make a grab for
the
EPIRB. Of course, in the case of an upsidedown multihull, they didn't have much

of a choice.

Sherwin D.


The logical choice is to pick the most survivable situation and to recognize when a situation is becoming untenable. I suggest
that you've never been in a washing machine-style situation, where everything (as a best case) is going round and round and
everything is flying. It's not a place you would want to stay for very long. Need a dramatic account? Read Fastnet Force 10. The
mono will capsize, then right itself, perhaps a number of times, and if you're very lucky, you won't be killed or injured by the
flying debris. If you're unlucky, water will enter and the boat will right itself on the bottom.

On the other hand, if a multi capsizes, it will likely stay capsized providing a stable and likely livable place to await rescue.

No where have I seen anyone suggest that triggering an EPIRB is a first action or even third option, but neither is it necessary
to wait until the situation is unsalvagable to trigger it. When you say, "they didn't have much choice," you imply that they had
a choice at all. It's more likely that they were swept overboard before being able to get to it or below.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com


Is it not correct to have the EPIRB already on deck in a
self releasing holder? That is if it is not a personal EPIRB.

--

SeeYaa Harbin Osteen KG6URO

When American Citizens with dual citizenship pledges allegiance
to the flag, to which flag do they pledge allegiance too?

-

Harbin Osteen wrote:

Is it not correct to have the EPIRB already on deck in a
self releasing holder? That is if it is not a personal EPIRB.


Not necessarily for a catamaran - The presumption is that if the boat
flips, and anyone is left on board, they would be able to take it out
of the locker and activate it. Having it on deck increases the chance
it would be damaged, lost, or inaccessible when needed.

The fact that it was found in a locker implies that the entire crew
was on deck when it flipped. Certainly (we can hope, at least) anyone
down below would have activated it even if they were trying to escape
or rescue the others. Since this was a professional delivery team we
have to assumed they all knew where the gear was, and had discussed
various emergency scenarios.

more info:
http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicL...#anchor1085433

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
more info:
http://www.latitude38.com/LectronicL...#anchor1085433


Whew.. missed that article... one crew alive after the capsize. I wonder why
that person was above deck (err... below, whatever) in such weather. The
inside must surely have been safer.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Harbin Osteen wrote:

Is it not correct to have the EPIRB already on deck in a
self releasing holder? That is if it is not a personal EPIRB.


Not necessarily for a catamaran - The presumption is that if the boat
flips, and anyone is left on board, they would be able to take it out of
the locker and activate it. Having it on deck increases the chance it
would be damaged, lost, or inaccessible when needed.

The fact that it was found in a locker implies that the entire crew was on
deck when it flipped. Certainly (we can hope, at least) anyone down below
would have activated it even if they were trying to escape or rescue the
others. Since this was a professional delivery team we have to assumed
they all knew where the gear was, and had discussed various emergency
scenarios.


Hmmm... I would think it should not be on deck, but rather it should be
readily accessible from the cockpit... same with monohulls... near the
companionway. Why would I want it in a distant locker?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

And I answer you that I have done extensive ocean cruising with my 22 foot
sailboat, including a winter passage through the Windward Passage from Jamaica
to
Florida. It was no picnic, so I know what rough weather sailing is. You can
add to
that sailing my boat from Greece to Israel and back fighting the strong Meltimi
winds. I think I have seen enough bad weather.

It does depend on your point of view. I like to work myself out of trouble, and
not
depend on some electronic signal to send the cavalry over the next hill to
rescue me.
I think with 35 years of cruising experience, I have seen quite a few bad
storms. I
never capsized, but I am not a racer who pushes their boat to the maximum. When

the weather gets bad, I shorten sail, sometimes heave-to, and/or put out a sea
anchor. Problem is that many sailors think their multihulls cannot flip over,
and that's
when they get into trouble.

Sherwin D.

"Capt. JG" wrote:

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Gee, do I have to spell everything out! My comment was directed to the
concept
that boats are unsinkable, period. They said the Titanic could never
sink. Get
the
analogy? I guess not.

I personally would rather take my chances on a boat that most likely will
go
back
to an upright position where I have a chance of salvaging enough rigging
to
continue
sailing. We are slaves to our EPIRB's to get us out of trouble. Your
first
thought
when in trouble at sea is how can I recover a bad situation, not make a
grab for
the
EPIRB. Of course, in the case of an upsidedown multihull, they didn't
have much

of a choice.

Sherwin D.

The logical choice is to pick the most survivable situation and to recognize
when a situation is becoming untenable. I suggest that you've never been in
a washing machine-style situation, where everything (as a best case) is
going round and round and everything is flying. It's not a place you would
want to stay for very long. Need a dramatic account? Read Fastnet Force 10.
The mono will capsize, then right itself, perhaps a number of times, and if
you're very lucky, you won't be killed or injured by the flying debris. If
you're unlucky, water will enter and the boat will right itself on the
bottom.

On the other hand, if a multi capsizes, it will likely stay capsized
providing a stable and likely livable place to await rescue.

No where have I seen anyone suggest that triggering an EPIRB is a first
action or even third option, but neither is it necessary to wait until the
situation is unsalvagable to trigger it. When you say, "they didn't have
much choice," you imply that they had a choice at all. It's more likely
that they were swept overboard before being able to get to it or below.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
And I answer you that I have done extensive ocean cruising with my 22 foot
sailboat, including a winter passage through the Windward Passage from
Jamaica
to
Florida. It was no picnic, so I know what rough weather sailing is. You
can
add to
that sailing my boat from Greece to Israel and back fighting the strong
Meltimi
winds. I think I have seen enough bad weather.

It does depend on your point of view. I like to work myself out of
trouble, and
not
depend on some electronic signal to send the cavalry over the next hill to
rescue me.
I think with 35 years of cruising experience, I have seen quite a few bad
storms. I
never capsized, but I am not a racer who pushes their boat to the maximum.
When

the weather gets bad, I shorten sail, sometimes heave-to, and/or put out a
sea
anchor. Problem is that many sailors think their multihulls cannot flip
over,
and that's
when they get into trouble.

Sherwin D.

This isn't demonstrated by your post. What is demonstrated is lack of
understand about safety, or rather single-mindedness about what safety
means, which is almost as bad.

We all "like to work ..ourselves... out of trouble and not depend on some
electronic signal... blah, blah." But understanding that you have that
device should you not be able to "work it out" is the point.

And, no. What multihull sailors know is that their boats can't sink. Big
difference.

"Capt. JG" wrote:

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Gee, do I have to spell everything out! My comment was directed to the
concept
that boats are unsinkable, period. They said the Titanic could never
sink. Get
the
analogy? I guess not.

I personally would rather take my chances on a boat that most likely
will
go
back
to an upright position where I have a chance of salvaging enough
rigging
to
continue
sailing. We are slaves to our EPIRB's to get us out of trouble. Your
first
thought
when in trouble at sea is how can I recover a bad situation, not make a
grab for
the
EPIRB. Of course, in the case of an upsidedown multihull, they didn't
have much

of a choice.

Sherwin D.

The logical choice is to pick the most survivable situation and to
recognize
when a situation is becoming untenable. I suggest that you've never been
in
a washing machine-style situation, where everything (as a best case) is
going round and round and everything is flying. It's not a place you
would
want to stay for very long. Need a dramatic account? Read Fastnet Force
10.
The mono will capsize, then right itself, perhaps a number of times, and
if
you're very lucky, you won't be killed or injured by the flying debris.
If
you're unlucky, water will enter and the boat will right itself on the
bottom.

On the other hand, if a multi capsizes, it will likely stay capsized
providing a stable and likely livable place to await rescue.

No where have I seen anyone suggest that triggering an EPIRB is a first
action or even third option, but neither is it necessary to wait until
the
situation is unsalvagable to trigger it. When you say, "they didn't have
much choice," you imply that they had a choice at all. It's more likely
that they were swept overboard before being able to get to it or below.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com




--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Considering the offshore sailing I have done, I would not be here to answer you
if
I did not observe the proper safety precautions.

I think your statement that multihulls never sink is a fantasy, as is your
presumption
that monohulls sink after they capsize. How many times have you heard of
monohulls capsizing and then continuing to sail, with a jury rig if need be. If
you
haven't heard any, I think you are not in touch with the real world.]

Sherwin D.

"Capt. JG" wrote:

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
And I answer you that I have done extensive ocean cruising with my 22 foot
sailboat, including a winter passage through the Windward Passage from
Jamaica
to
Florida. It was no picnic, so I know what rough weather sailing is. You
can
add to
that sailing my boat from Greece to Israel and back fighting the strong
Meltimi
winds. I think I have seen enough bad weather.

It does depend on your point of view. I like to work myself out of
trouble, and
not
depend on some electronic signal to send the cavalry over the next hill to
rescue me.
I think with 35 years of cruising experience, I have seen quite a few bad
storms. I
never capsized, but I am not a racer who pushes their boat to the maximum.
When

the weather gets bad, I shorten sail, sometimes heave-to, and/or put out a
sea
anchor. Problem is that many sailors think their multihulls cannot flip
over,
and that's
when they get into trouble.

Sherwin D.

This isn't demonstrated by your post. What is demonstrated is lack of
understand about safety, or rather single-mindedness about what safety
means, which is almost as bad.

We all "like to work ..ourselves... out of trouble and not depend on some
electronic signal... blah, blah." But understanding that you have that
device should you not be able to "work it out" is the point.

And, no. What multihull sailors know is that their boats can't sink. Big
difference.

"Capt. JG" wrote:

"sherwindu" wrote in message
...
Gee, do I have to spell everything out! My comment was directed to the
concept
that boats are unsinkable, period. They said the Titanic could never
sink. Get
the
analogy? I guess not.

I personally would rather take my chances on a boat that most likely
will
go
back
to an upright position where I have a chance of salvaging enough
rigging
to
continue
sailing. We are slaves to our EPIRB's to get us out of trouble. Your
first
thought
when in trouble at sea is how can I recover a bad situation, not make a
grab for
the
EPIRB. Of course, in the case of an upsidedown multihull, they didn't
have much

of a choice.

Sherwin D.

The logical choice is to pick the most survivable situation and to
recognize
when a situation is becoming untenable. I suggest that you've never been
in
a washing machine-style situation, where everything (as a best case) is
going round and round and everything is flying. It's not a place you
would
want to stay for very long. Need a dramatic account? Read Fastnet Force
10.
The mono will capsize, then right itself, perhaps a number of times, and
if
you're very lucky, you won't be killed or injured by the flying debris.
If
you're unlucky, water will enter and the boat will right itself on the
bottom.

On the other hand, if a multi capsizes, it will likely stay capsized
providing a stable and likely livable place to await rescue.

No where have I seen anyone suggest that triggering an EPIRB is a first
action or even third option, but neither is it necessary to wait until
the
situation is unsalvagable to trigger it. When you say, "they didn't have
much choice," you imply that they had a choice at all. It's more likely
that they were swept overboard before being able to get to it or below.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com