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#1
posted to rec.boats.cruising,rec.boats.building
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Fuel Polisher as oil change device?
This may have been covered in some distant past threads, but if so, I
don't recall the outcome of what most likely was conjecture rather than petroleum engineering observation, in any event. Thus... My Perkins 4-154 has a sump drain which connects to a hose with a seacock inline. To do oil changes, one opens the seacock, connects a pump to the higher-than-the-engine end of the hose and evacuates the old oil, changes the filter and puts in new oil. My fuel polishing setup is now complete, and is such overkill in volume (3.5 gpm, run for 24 hours, would recycle my entire tank more than 50 times, at a cost of about 19AH) that I'm comfortable with its ability to clean my tank, regardless of what may come up the common supply tube (engine feeds from the same line). I've also now got a dual Racor setup to be able to change filters with the engine running - both the polishing system and the Racors have vacuum gauges to monitor appropriate change intervals - but that's not the point of my post. That big pump, recycling to that big tank, is... Is there any scientific reason which would encourage, or discourage, utilizing a pump to do engine oil change waste oil evacuations, putting the waste oil into the diesel tank (circa 100 gallons; i.e. ~1-2% typical), for mixing and burning with the rest, thus neatly not only solving the disposal problem but also reclaiming the dead dinos' energy? If there are engineering reasons against, due to the nature of the waste oil, are there any levels of change (more frequent) which would mitigate those, assuming that filter changes occurred at the same intervals? I know it's useless to ask :{)) but it would be more informative to have sound engineering rather than conjecture in reply to this topic... L8R Skip, back to shoring up ancient flooring supports Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
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#2
posted to rec.boats.cruising,rec.boats.building
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Fuel Polisher as oil change device?
About 15 years ago, maybe more, there was a truck featured in a trucking
magazine that did just that, although it was a continuous operation. Oil was continuously bled out of the system to be combined with the incoming fuel, and fresh oil added, continuously. I would assume the oil would have to be filtered to the extreme before you would want to allow it through the injectors. IIRC, the truck was sort of a rolling demo, painted black, and a name something like Mega. "Skip Gundlach" wrote in message oups.com... This may have been covered in some distant past threads, but if so, I don't recall the outcome of what most likely was conjecture rather than petroleum engineering observation, in any event. Thus... My Perkins 4-154 has a sump drain which connects to a hose with a seacock inline. To do oil changes, one opens the seacock, connects a pump to the higher-than-the-engine end of the hose and evacuates the old oil, changes the filter and puts in new oil. My fuel polishing setup is now complete, and is such overkill in volume (3.5 gpm, run for 24 hours, would recycle my entire tank more than 50 times, at a cost of about 19AH) that I'm comfortable with its ability to clean my tank, regardless of what may come up the common supply tube (engine feeds from the same line). I've also now got a dual Racor setup to be able to change filters with the engine running - both the polishing system and the Racors have vacuum gauges to monitor appropriate change intervals - but that's not the point of my post. That big pump, recycling to that big tank, is... Is there any scientific reason which would encourage, or discourage, utilizing a pump to do engine oil change waste oil evacuations, putting the waste oil into the diesel tank (circa 100 gallons; i.e. ~1-2% typical), for mixing and burning with the rest, thus neatly not only solving the disposal problem but also reclaiming the dead dinos' energy? If there are engineering reasons against, due to the nature of the waste oil, are there any levels of change (more frequent) which would mitigate those, assuming that filter changes occurred at the same intervals? I know it's useless to ask :{)) but it would be more informative to have sound engineering rather than conjecture in reply to this topic... L8R Skip, back to shoring up ancient flooring supports Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
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#3
posted to rec.boats.cruising,rec.boats.building
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Fuel Polisher as oil change device?
On 20 Nov 2006 18:06:19 -0800, "Skip Gundlach"
wrote: If there are engineering reasons against, due to the nature of the waste oil, are there any levels of change (more frequent) which would mitigate those, assuming that filter changes occurred at the same intervals? I know it's useless to ask :{)) but it would be more informative to have sound engineering rather than conjecture in reply to this topic... Recycling crankcase oil as diesel fuel is quite common among large fleet users, and there is actually some engineering information on the web. I know people with a Skookum 53 long range cruiser where the recycling system is actually built into the boat. Racor makes a system to do this but it is too expensive for recreational boaters in my opinion, about $2000 if memory is correct. To make a long story short, the oil to be recycled should be passed through a filter and then blended with diesel at a 20 to one ratio, i.e., 20 gallons of diesel to one gallon of used oil. http://p2library.nfesc.navy.mil/P2_O...ook/6_I_2.html http://www.awma.org/journal/pdfs/1999/1/ray.pdf |
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#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising,rec.boats.building
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Fuel Polisher as oil change device?
A few of my friends have done this in their trucks for many
years with no apparent problems. 10 gals of motor oil into 200 gal. of diesel. I've always felt the $10 you save wasn't worth it. Of course, now it's $25. SBV "Skip Gundlach" wrote in message oups.com.. .. This may have been covered in some distant past threads, but if so, I don't recall the outcome of what most likely was conjecture rather than petroleum engineering observation, in any event. Thus... My Perkins 4-154 has a sump drain which connects to a hose with a seacock inline. To do oil changes, one opens the seacock, connects a pump to the higher-than-the-engine end of the hose and evacuates the old oil, changes the filter and puts in new oil. My fuel polishing setup is now complete, and is such overkill in volume (3.5 gpm, run for 24 hours, would recycle my entire tank more than 50 times, at a cost of about 19AH) that I'm comfortable with its ability to clean my tank, regardless of what may come up the common supply tube (engine feeds from the same line). I've also now got a dual Racor setup to be able to change filters with the engine running - both the polishing system and the Racors have vacuum gauges to monitor appropriate change intervals - but that's not the point of my post. That big pump, recycling to that big tank, is... Is there any scientific reason which would encourage, or discourage, utilizing a pump to do engine oil change waste oil evacuations, putting the waste oil into the diesel tank (circa 100 gallons; i.e. ~1-2% typical), for mixing and burning with the rest, thus neatly not only solving the disposal problem but also reclaiming the dead dinos' energy? If there are engineering reasons against, due to the nature of the waste oil, are there any levels of change (more frequent) which would mitigate those, assuming that filter changes occurred at the same intervals? I know it's useless to ask :{)) but it would be more informative to have sound engineering rather than conjecture in reply to this topic... L8R Skip, back to shoring up ancient flooring supports Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
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#5
posted to rec.boats.cruising,rec.boats.building
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Fuel Polisher as oil change device?
Scotty wrote: A few of my friends have done this in their trucks for many years with no apparent problems. 10 gals of motor oil into 200 gal. of diesel. I've always felt the $10 you save wasn't worth it. Of course, now it's $25. SBV The 25-30/whateverbux, while interesting to me, isn't the issue. It's getting rid of the waste oil. Over in the Seven Seas Cruising Association forum where I posted the same questing, Rich H, presumed to be Hampel, previously seen in these parts, said, didactically, "Simple engineering answer: expect the lubricating oil (heavy fraction) to not fully ignite in the combustion chamber, thus vulnerable to form a massive coke deposit downstream in the exhaust manifold and mixing elbow. You're not burning Bunker-C /#6 but lightt weight #2 in your engine. If your engine were set up to burn a heavy oil (which it cant) then adding lubricating fuels would be OK; otherwise, not. Asphaltic tar will burn too; but, you wouldnt put 'tar' in the tank either." Yet, I'm being referred to many sites, including some governmental (see prior discussion about Algae-X for validation modus [modii?]) position papers, which say that doing so is the best way to dispose of the stuff, with no mention of issues in exhaust streams. OTOH, I have also seen some reference to aggressively mixing the stuff with fuel before re-insertion into the fuel tank. I'm not at all sure what that's about, but I also would hazard a guess that oil changes would happen while not cruising, and my fuel polishing system would do a very good job of recirculation of stuff which came down the same pipe as the other polished fuel, and thus mix well... So, keep the info coming. I'm pretty close to thinking it's a good idea :{)) but being talked out of it for sound engineering practices aimed at engine preservation would be OK, too. L8R Skip, shoring up sagging soles at the moment Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
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#6
posted to rec.boats.cruising,rec.boats.building
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Fuel Polisher as oil change device?
What does your engine hold, 1 gallon, 1 1/2 ? For that
small amount, I wouldn't worry about it, but then, I'm not a scientist. What about the 'acids' they say is in the old motor oil? SBV "Skip Gundlach" wrote in message ups.com... Scotty wrote: A few of my friends have done this in their trucks for many years with no apparent problems. 10 gals of motor oil into 200 gal. of diesel. I've always felt the $10 you save wasn't worth it. Of course, now it's $25. SBV The 25-30/whateverbux, while interesting to me, isn't the issue. It's getting rid of the waste oil. Over in the Seven Seas Cruising Association forum where I posted the same questing, Rich H, presumed to be Hampel, previously seen in these parts, said, didactically, "Simple engineering answer: expect the lubricating oil (heavy fraction) to not fully ignite in the combustion chamber, thus vulnerable to form a massive coke deposit downstream in the exhaust manifold and mixing elbow. You're not burning Bunker-C /#6 but lightt weight #2 in your engine. If your engine were set up to burn a heavy oil (which it cant) then adding lubricating fuels would be OK; otherwise, not. Asphaltic tar will burn too; but, you wouldnt put 'tar' in the tank either." Yet, I'm being referred to many sites, including some governmental (see prior discussion about Algae-X for validation modus [modii?]) position papers, which say that doing so is the best way to dispose of the stuff, with no mention of issues in exhaust streams. OTOH, I have also seen some reference to aggressively mixing the stuff with fuel before re-insertion into the fuel tank. I'm not at all sure what that's about, but I also would hazard a guess that oil changes would happen while not cruising, and my fuel polishing system would do a very good job of recirculation of stuff which came down the same pipe as the other polished fuel, and thus mix well... So, keep the info coming. I'm pretty close to thinking it's a good idea :{)) but being talked out of it for sound engineering practices aimed at engine preservation would be OK, too. L8R Skip, shoring up sagging soles at the moment Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." |
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#7
posted to rec.boats.cruising,rec.boats.building
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Fuel Polisher as oil change device?
Engine oil and fuel oil have quite different compositions.
One of the main reasons for changing the engine oil at regular intervals is to rid the engine of potentially harmfull chemical compounds picked up in the lubricating oil as a by product of combustion. Changing the oil removes them completely and I for one would not introduce them back into the engine via the fuel, in any concentration particularly in a marine engine where reliability and longevity is a key issue. If it is an environmental issue you are thinking about I would rather fill my containers with contaminated engine oil and take them to the local tip site for collection than to burn it in my engine, as at any concentration the combustion in the engine will still have to burn all your sump oil which contributes to greenhouse emmissions and any compounds that wont burn will blow out the exhaust and drop into the water. I believe burning the cleanest fuel the most efficient way is the best way to go. In that regard my efforts and money would best be spent be on keeping the engine serviced in peak running order, paying particular attention to compression and injectors and rail pressures leaks etc. Cam "Skip Gundlach" wrote in message oups.com... This may have been covered in some distant past threads, but if so, I don't recall the outcome of what most likely was conjecture rather than petroleum engineering observation, in any event. Thus... My Perkins 4-154 has a sump drain which connects to a hose with a seacock inline. To do oil changes, one opens the seacock, connects a pump to the higher-than-the-engine end of the hose and evacuates the old oil, changes the filter and puts in new oil. My fuel polishing setup is now complete, and is such overkill in volume (3.5 gpm, run for 24 hours, would recycle my entire tank more than 50 times, at a cost of about 19AH) that I'm comfortable with its ability to clean my tank, regardless of what may come up the common supply tube (engine feeds from the same line). I've also now got a dual Racor setup to be able to change filters with the engine running - both the polishing system and the Racors have vacuum gauges to monitor appropriate change intervals - but that's not the point of my post. That big pump, recycling to that big tank, is... Is there any scientific reason which would encourage, or discourage, utilizing a pump to do engine oil change waste oil evacuations, putting the waste oil into the diesel tank (circa 100 gallons; i.e. ~1-2% typical), for mixing and burning with the rest, thus neatly not only solving the disposal problem but also reclaiming the dead dinos' energy? If there are engineering reasons against, due to the nature of the waste oil, are there any levels of change (more frequent) which would mitigate those, assuming that filter changes occurred at the same intervals? I know it's useless to ask :{)) but it would be more informative to have sound engineering rather than conjecture in reply to this topic... L8R Skip, back to shoring up ancient flooring supports Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain |
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#8
posted to rec.boats.cruising,rec.boats.building
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Fuel Polisher as oil change device?
Skip Gundlach wrote:
Scotty wrote: A few of my friends have done this in their trucks for many years with no apparent problems. 10 gals of motor oil into 200 gal. of diesel. I've always felt the $10 you save wasn't worth it. Of course, now it's $25. SBV The 25-30/whateverbux, while interesting to me, isn't the issue. It's getting rid of the waste oil. Over in the Seven Seas Cruising Association forum where I posted the same questing, Rich H, presumed to be Hampel, previously seen in these parts, said, didactically, "Simple engineering answer: expect the lubricating oil (heavy fraction) to not fully ignite in the combustion chamber, thus vulnerable to form a massive coke deposit downstream in the exhaust manifold and mixing elbow. You're not burning Bunker-C /#6 but lightt weight #2 in your engine. If your engine were set up to burn a heavy oil (which it cant) then adding lubricating fuels would be OK; otherwise, not. Asphaltic tar will burn too; but, you wouldnt put 'tar' in the tank either." Yet, I'm being referred to many sites, including some governmental (see prior discussion about Algae-X for validation modus [modii?]) position papers, which say that doing so is the best way to dispose of the stuff, with no mention of issues in exhaust streams. OTOH, I have also seen some reference to aggressively mixing the stuff with fuel before re-insertion into the fuel tank. I'm not at all sure what that's about, but I also would hazard a guess that oil changes would happen while not cruising, and my fuel polishing system would do a very good job of recirculation of stuff which came down the same pipe as the other polished fuel, and thus mix well... So, keep the info coming. I'm pretty close to thinking it's a good idea :{)) but being talked out of it for sound engineering practices aimed at engine preservation would be OK, too. L8R Skip, shoring up sagging soles at the moment Morgan 461 #2 SV Flying Pig KI4MPC See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery! Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog "Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats. In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's the charm of it. Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not." I cannot speak for your engine, but in my Dodge/Cummins truck I have used 15% used crankcase oil for more than 20,000 miles with no issues. I only stopped because I began using veggie oil blends. -- “TAANSTAFL” __________________________________________________ __________________________ "A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3 __________________________________________________ __________________________ |
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#9
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Fuel Polisher as oil change device?
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