If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of
the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to
be floating well on their own. Others were found in pieces over the
next several years. There was huge controversy then (and apparently
now) whether you were better off in the boat or off. That debate was
fueled by the abandonment of a boat by four sailors (leaving two behind
for dead), only to have the men in the raft die when it broke apart and
while trying to be picked up by a ship (a couple went under the screws,
a horrible way to die). Other than Peter Goss, how many of us are
willing to be repeatedly knocked down or rolled?

Other than the safe advice never to get yourself into that position
(and many Fastnet captains were critcized for sailing into a storm), my
take is that you make the best call you can based upon the information
presented. There were no good choices then and (if you are stuck in a
storm), seldom are great choices now (none of us are clairvoyant).
Sometimes the "weather signs" are wrong (Gordon Bok has a great song
about a fisherman caught in such a storm) and sometimes the "safe"
choices aren't. Just before Labor Day this year a worn out hurricane
whipped up the East Coast. I was sailing from Rockland to Groton the
week following and met a sailer who was limping home to Portsmouth. He
had headed for land off New Jersey when he saw the storm coming and got
beat to hell on the pilings to which he was tied. He wished (in
hindsight) that he had stayed out and battened down.

As well, most of us would assume some risk on our own, but the equation
changes greatly when you are responsible for the safety of others, and
those others are likely to have an opinion as to whether you should "go
down with the ship." No boat is worth a life.

Steve Hayes
Maine

Not only did I read the book, but I heled deliver Turner's winning boat
Tenacious boat, renamed and under new ownership, years later in the Med. :-)

Many of the boats found floating, crew gone, we totally trashed inside.

On the other hand, the Satori (ala The Perfect Storm) survived quite nicely
and washed up on a beach intact with little damage.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"steve_hayes_maine" wrote in message
ups.com...
If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of
the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to
be floating well on their own. Others were found in pieces over the
next several years. There was huge controversy then (and apparently
now) whether you were better off in the boat or off. That debate was
fueled by the abandonment of a boat by four sailors (leaving two behind
for dead), only to have the men in the raft die when it broke apart and
while trying to be picked up by a ship (a couple went under the screws,
a horrible way to die). Other than Peter Goss, how many of us are
willing to be repeatedly knocked down or rolled?

Other than the safe advice never to get yourself into that position
(and many Fastnet captains were critcized for sailing into a storm), my
take is that you make the best call you can based upon the information
presented. There were no good choices then and (if you are stuck in a
storm), seldom are great choices now (none of us are clairvoyant).
Sometimes the "weather signs" are wrong (Gordon Bok has a great song
about a fisherman caught in such a storm) and sometimes the "safe"
choices aren't. Just before Labor Day this year a worn out hurricane
whipped up the East Coast. I was sailing from Rockland to Groton the
week following and met a sailer who was limping home to Portsmouth. He
had headed for land off New Jersey when he saw the storm coming and got
beat to hell on the pilings to which he was tied. He wished (in
hindsight) that he had stayed out and battened down.

As well, most of us would assume some risk on our own, but the equation
changes greatly when you are responsible for the safety of others, and
those others are likely to have an opinion as to whether you should "go
down with the ship." No boat is worth a life.

Steve Hayes
Maine

One of the sailboat abandoned has been recovered and is tied safely to the
dock in Bermuda.
The boat is bruised and battered and will be hauled out tomorrow.
Check the news on TV for more details.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Not only did I read the book, but I heled deliver Turner's winning boat
Tenacious boat, renamed and under new ownership, years later in the Med.
:-)

Many of the boats found floating, crew gone, we totally trashed inside.

On the other hand, the Satori (ala The Perfect Storm) survived quite
nicely and washed up on a beach intact with little damage.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"steve_hayes_maine" wrote in message
ups.com...
If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of
the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to
be floating well on their own. Others were found in pieces over the
next several years. There was huge controversy then (and apparently
now) whether you were better off in the boat or off. That debate was
fueled by the abandonment of a boat by four sailors (leaving two behind
for dead), only to have the men in the raft die when it broke apart and
while trying to be picked up by a ship (a couple went under the screws,
a horrible way to die). Other than Peter Goss, how many of us are
willing to be repeatedly knocked down or rolled?

Other than the safe advice never to get yourself into that position
(and many Fastnet captains were critcized for sailing into a storm), my
take is that you make the best call you can based upon the information
presented. There were no good choices then and (if you are stuck in a
storm), seldom are great choices now (none of us are clairvoyant).
Sometimes the "weather signs" are wrong (Gordon Bok has a great song
about a fisherman caught in such a storm) and sometimes the "safe"
choices aren't. Just before Labor Day this year a worn out hurricane
whipped up the East Coast. I was sailing from Rockland to Groton the
week following and met a sailer who was limping home to Portsmouth. He
had headed for land off New Jersey when he saw the storm coming and got
beat to hell on the pilings to which he was tied. He wished (in
hindsight) that he had stayed out and battened down.

As well, most of us would assume some risk on our own, but the equation
changes greatly when you are responsible for the safety of others, and
those others are likely to have an opinion as to whether you should "go
down with the ship." No boat is worth a life.

Steve Hayes
Maine

Do you know which one it was? I'm presuming it was the MAGIQUE.



wrote:
One of the sailboat abandoned has been recovered and is tied safely to the
dock in Bermuda.
The boat is bruised and battered and will be hauled out tomorrow.
Check the news on TV for more details.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Not only did I read the book, but I heled deliver Turner's winning boat
Tenacious boat, renamed and under new ownership, years later in the Med.
:-)

Many of the boats found floating, crew gone, we totally trashed inside.

On the other hand, the Satori (ala The Perfect Storm) survived quite
nicely and washed up on a beach intact with little damage.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"steve_hayes_maine" wrote in message
ups.com...
If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of
the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to
be floating well on their own. Others were found in pieces over the
next several years. There was huge controversy then (and apparently
now) whether you were better off in the boat or off. That debate was
fueled by the abandonment of a boat by four sailors (leaving two behind
for dead), only to have the men in the raft die when it broke apart and
while trying to be picked up by a ship (a couple went under the screws,
a horrible way to die). Other than Peter Goss, how many of us are
willing to be repeatedly knocked down or rolled?

Other than the safe advice never to get yourself into that position
(and many Fastnet captains were critcized for sailing into a storm), my
take is that you make the best call you can based upon the information
presented. There were no good choices then and (if you are stuck in a
storm), seldom are great choices now (none of us are clairvoyant).
Sometimes the "weather signs" are wrong (Gordon Bok has a great song
about a fisherman caught in such a storm) and sometimes the "safe"
choices aren't. Just before Labor Day this year a worn out hurricane
whipped up the East Coast. I was sailing from Rockland to Groton the
week following and met a sailer who was limping home to Portsmouth. He
had headed for land off New Jersey when he saw the storm coming and got
beat to hell on the pilings to which he was tied. He wished (in
hindsight) that he had stayed out and battened down.

As well, most of us would assume some risk on our own, but the equation
changes greatly when you are responsible for the safety of others, and
those others are likely to have an opinion as to whether you should "go
down with the ship." No boat is worth a life.

Steve Hayes
Maine

Yes,

"Howard" wrote in message
rvers.com...
Do you know which one it was? I'm presuming it was the MAGIQUE.



wrote:
One of the sailboat abandoned has been recovered and is tied safely to
the dock in Bermuda.
The boat is bruised and battered and will be hauled out tomorrow.
Check the news on TV for more details.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Not only did I read the book, but I heled deliver Turner's winning boat
Tenacious boat, renamed and under new ownership, years later in the Med.
:-)

Many of the boats found floating, crew gone, we totally trashed inside.

On the other hand, the Satori (ala The Perfect Storm) survived quite
nicely and washed up on a beach intact with little damage.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"steve_hayes_maine" wrote in message
ups.com...
If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of
the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to
be floating well on their own. Others were found in pieces over the
next several years. There was huge controversy then (and apparently
now) whether you were better off in the boat or off. That debate was
fueled by the abandonment of a boat by four sailors (leaving two behind
for dead), only to have the men in the raft die when it broke apart and
while trying to be picked up by a ship (a couple went under the screws,
a horrible way to die). Other than Peter Goss, how many of us are
willing to be repeatedly knocked down or rolled?

Other than the safe advice never to get yourself into that position
(and many Fastnet captains were critcized for sailing into a storm), my
take is that you make the best call you can based upon the information
presented. There were no good choices then and (if you are stuck in a
storm), seldom are great choices now (none of us are clairvoyant).
Sometimes the "weather signs" are wrong (Gordon Bok has a great song
about a fisherman caught in such a storm) and sometimes the "safe"
choices aren't. Just before Labor Day this year a worn out hurricane
whipped up the East Coast. I was sailing from Rockland to Groton the
week following and met a sailer who was limping home to Portsmouth. He
had headed for land off New Jersey when he saw the storm coming and got
beat to hell on the pilings to which he was tied. He wished (in
hindsight) that he had stayed out and battened down.

As well, most of us would assume some risk on our own, but the equation
changes greatly when you are responsible for the safety of others, and
those others are likely to have an opinion as to whether you should "go
down with the ship." No boat is worth a life.

Steve Hayes
Maine

steve_hayes_maine wrote:
If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of
the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to
be floating well on their own.
Steve Hayes
Maine

I found the following quote regarding the Fastnet Disaster of 1979.
Make of it what you will...........

Fastnet Disaster of 1979
Interview with Bill Burrows, Chief Engineer Royal Navy Lifeboat
Institution. Retrieved three disabled sailboats in a 21 hour rescue
during the fatal 1979 Fastnet Storm.

"... Look, you get 300 Yachats in poor weather and you're going to
have some trouble, almost certainly. But the majority of the trouble
was hysteria created by the situation and by inexperienced crews. And
that it was. They were blaming rudders and such, but none of those
rudders would have snapped if they had put drogues out and storm jibs
and run before the weather. They were under bare poles, most of them,
and they were getting up on the seas. And the seas were about 45 feet.
Not what we around here call big.

They got up on these seas and they were running. When the boats were
starting to broach, what the helmsmen were doing was hauling on the
rudders to stop them from broaching. They were putting too much bloody
strain on the rudders, and they had to go.

Yes, I know they were racing sailors, not cruising men, but that's no
excuse. We went out that night and we passed a little old hooker sort
of thing with a family of kids aboard and they were going away to
Ireland with no trouble at all...."

On 15 Nov 2006 10:56:55 -0800, "Bob" wrote:


steve_hayes_maine wrote:
If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of
the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to
be floating well on their own.
Steve Hayes
Maine

I found the following quote regarding the Fastnet Disaster of 1979.
Make of it what you will...........


A few beers?

Fastnet Disaster of 1979
Interview with Bill Burrows, Chief Engineer Royal Navy Lifeboat
Institution.


http://www.rnli.org.uk/rnli_near_you...Scilly/history

Retrieved three disabled sailboats in a 21 hour rescue
during the fatal 1979 Fastnet Storm.

"... Look, you get 300 Yachats in poor weather and you're going to
have some trouble, almost certainly. But the majority of the trouble
was hysteria created by the situation and by inexperienced crews. And
that it was. They were blaming rudders and such, but none of those
rudders would have snapped if they had put drogues out and storm jibs
and run before the weather. They were under bare poles, most of them,
and they were getting up on the seas. And the seas were about 45 feet.
Not what we around here call big.

They got up on these seas and they were running. When the boats were
starting to broach, what the helmsmen were doing was hauling on the
rudders to stop them from broaching. They were putting too much bloody
strain on the rudders, and they had to go.

Yes, I know they were racing sailors, not cruising men, but that's no
excuse. We went out that night and we passed a little old hooker sort
of thing with a family of kids aboard and they were going away to
Ireland with no trouble at all...."

The feedbacks collected from the Fastnet Disaster of 1979 have contributed
to design improvement on many sailboats.
Simple things like positive locks on cockpit lockers, ice boxes, port holes
and many other openings have been incorporated in the aftermath production
of sailboats. One thing to consider is the credibility of weather reports
and availability of electronic navigational aids at the time of the Fastnet
Disaster of 1979.
Today we would thing that the weather report are more dependable especially
with the advent of computerized aids.
Not quite so, the weather data is purchased in bulk and processed with
computerized assisted programs and then broadcasted.
The probability of the weather reports to always be 100 % right is by far
remote. The pride of the weather forecasting person has been removed and
replaced by the computers.
When I got cut in Felix I had been waiting three days listening to the
weather reports and recording the barometric pressure.
Then when the weather reports were favourable I left the safe heaven to
return home.
Half a day after I was in 40 foot wave with white foam all over and the
marine weather stations were still broadcasting fair weather.
While the FM radio stations were broadcasting the closing of all beaches
because of 40 foot waves.
Then I contacted the coast Guard to learned that Felix had made a complete
about turn and coming at me.
When I took my marine weather course they did not tell me that a storm or
hurricanes can make an about turn and come back.
When people are saying, from their armchair, that they would have handled
the situation better by doing this and that they should get involved on the
water more often and live the rush of adrenaline and will to survive.



"Goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
...
On 15 Nov 2006 10:56:55 -0800, "Bob" wrote:


steve_hayes_maine wrote:
If you haven't read "Fastnet, Force 10" recently, you should. Some of
the boats from which people were rescued were found after the storm to
be floating well on their own.
Steve Hayes
Maine

I found the following quote regarding the Fastnet Disaster of 1979.
Make of it what you will...........


A few beers?

Fastnet Disaster of 1979
Interview with Bill Burrows, Chief Engineer Royal Navy Lifeboat
Institution.


http://www.rnli.org.uk/rnli_near_you...Scilly/history

Retrieved three disabled sailboats in a 21 hour rescue
during the fatal 1979 Fastnet Storm.

"... Look, you get 300 Yachats in poor weather and you're going to
have some trouble, almost certainly. But the majority of the trouble
was hysteria created by the situation and by inexperienced crews. And
that it was. They were blaming rudders and such, but none of those
rudders would have snapped if they had put drogues out and storm jibs
and run before the weather. They were under bare poles, most of them,
and they were getting up on the seas. And the seas were about 45 feet.
Not what we around here call big.

They got up on these seas and they were running. When the boats were
starting to broach, what the helmsmen were doing was hauling on the
rudders to stop them from broaching. They were putting too much bloody
strain on the rudders, and they had to go.

Yes, I know they were racing sailors, not cruising men, but that's no
excuse. We went out that night and we passed a little old hooker sort
of thing with a family of kids aboard and they were going away to
Ireland with no trouble at all...."