On Sun, 05 Nov 2006 01:00:03 -0600, Cal Vanize
wrote:

Have you decided between power and sail ?

We both have experience sailing, but would prefer power.

I lot of sailors end up with trawlers as they near retirement age,
speaking from personal experience and others we know. We started out
7 years ago with a 33 ft sportfish just to see if we liked the concept
after a lifetime of sailing, and ended up with a Grand Banks trawler
for our "retirement boat". So far, no regrets although everything is
a compromise one way or another.

There is a book that I would recommend to you: "Stapleton's Powerboat
Bible" by Sid Stapleton.

http://tinyurl.com/y7gqff

There are other books by Chuck Gould and Robert Lamy that are worth a
look:

http://tinyurl.com/y5s329

http://tinyurl.com/y4cp9t

One of the most difficult decisions other than type of boat, is how
much to spend on it. Be sure to leave plenty of funds in reserve for
the inevitable repairs and upgrades, at least 30 to 50% over purchase
price in my opinion.

Also be aware that the cost of insurance is becoming a major expense,
especially for boats in southern states, and for older boats. Be sure
you have an insurance commitment at a price you can live with before
you finalize the deal on the boat.

Wayne.B wrote:
opinion.

Also be aware that the cost of insurance is becoming a major expense,
especially for boats in southern states, and for older boats. Be sure
you have an insurance commitment at a price you can live with before
you finalize the deal on the boat.

All excellent advice. I'll add that you should have a commitment on a
home berth before buying.

-paul

My wife and I spent 10 years on our 36' catamaran cruising from Canada
to Venezuela. We returned to the States in 2002. We were on a limited
budget and did not spend as much as many other cruisers that we met.
The cost per year averaged a little less that $30k. We spend 4 years in
the Caribbean and loved it. I would recommend that you join Seven Seas
Cruising Association (SSCA) at www.SSCA.org You will learn much about
cruising from the monthly bulletins.

Budget max to buy is low $100k's. Annual budget would be in the
neighborhood of $25-30k.

Annual budget of 30K for a power boat isn't much unless you plan on not
going very far. If you juist tie it in a slip, that alone will probably
cost you 6K per annum. Low $100k's doesn't buy much of a power boat either.
Maybe an old 32' trawler.

Your "about to retire". I wouldn't try this on the cheap especially at age
60+. I am 60 and live on a 2003 Beneteau 473 sailboat on the Chesapeake Bay
with my dachshund Beaurgard. I actually cruise in my boat and my average
expenses per year, are a whole lot more that 30K. My boat insurance alone
is 3K and I'm a licensed master with over 40 years of experience who has
never filed a claim and has no hits on his license.

I think you really ought to rethink this.

I wish you the best.

Cap'n Ric

Budget max to buy is low $100k's. Annual budget would be in the
neighborhood of $25-30k.


Cap'n Ric wrote:
Annual budget of 30K for a power boat isn't much unless you plan on not
going very far.

Or get a boat that is fuel efficient (ie not a speedboat)
From what I have read, and talking to a lot of different
cruiser in both power & sail bost, there isn't a whole lot
of difference in the cost of cruising (unless you are
burning fuel to make ten tons of boat & furniture plane).

DSK

DSK wrote:

Budget max to buy is low $100k's. Annual budget would be in the
neighborhood of $25-30k.



Cap'n Ric wrote:

Annual budget of 30K for a power boat isn't much unless you plan on
not going very far.


Or get a boat that is fuel efficient (ie not a speedboat)
From what I have read, and talking to a lot of different cruiser in
both power & sail bost, there isn't a whole lot of difference in the
cost of cruising (unless you are burning fuel to make ten tons of boat &
furniture plane).

DSK



Though one can never rely on manufacturer's claims, the range of boats
we're looking at are single engine or small twin trawlers that seem to
burn well under 10gph with most quoted in the 4 - 7gph range. We don't
expect to break any speed records - in fact, maybe the idea behind a
cruise, at least for us, is the journey as much as the destination.
That may change in the long-run, but for now, that's the vision.

However, some factors that have been brought to our attention include
insurance and home slip. We have not taken these fully into
consideration. So we do need to pay more attention to these fixed costs
in our annual operating budget. We have a great deal on our current
slip and our insurance broker has done a very effective job to minimize
our costs.

We have some time, plenty of time, before we commit. I just hope the
current prices stay depressed until AFTER we make the purchase.

Cal Vanize wrote:
Though one can never rely on manufacturer's claims, the range of boats
we're looking at are single engine or small twin trawlers that seem to
burn well under 10gph with most quoted in the 4 - 7gph range.

We burn about 1 3/4 gph cruising about 7 to 7.5 knots. The
boat will (in theory) go 8.5 but fuel consumption starts
getting up into the 5gph range and we make a loke of wake
and foam and noise, for not a lot of speed gained.

http://sports.webshots.com/album/550708407IeSjaU

... We don't
expect to break any speed records - in fact, maybe the idea behind a
cruise, at least for us, is the journey as much as the destination. That
may change in the long-run, but for now, that's the vision.


Sure. There are too many great places, too close together,
to be worth rushing frantically from one to the next. We've
had cruises in NC and on the Chesapeake where we never went
more than 30 miles in a day and enjoyed beautiful anchorages
every night.


However, some factors that have been brought to our attention include
insurance and home slip. We have not taken these fully into
consideration. So we do need to pay more attention to these fixed costs
in our annual operating budget. We have a great deal on our current
slip and our insurance broker has done a very effective job to minimize
our costs.


And don't forget, cruising is best defined as "fixing your
boat in exotic & inconvenient locations." There will always
be unexpected expenses, but with good skills & foresight
they are not crippling.

IMHO 30K a year is do-able. People are out there cruising
for less.


We have some time, plenty of time, before we commit. I just hope the
current prices stay depressed until AFTER we make the purchase.


I think the price depression of the boat market is mostly a
matter of more realistic expectations on the part of sellers
who are trying to unload neglected boats. The top 10% of
boats in best condition seem to be selling readily. However,
I do think there are two long term factors (and they affect
more than just the boat market)

1- the golden age of retirement is over. Fewer & fewer
people are going to be able to afford to buy a boat and
cruise when they stop work (or just slow down).
1a- waterfront property is getting more & more expensive
driving up costs for marinas & facilities; boating expenses
are climb & it's going to be harder & harder to find
out-of-the-way Mom-N-Pop friendly marinas.

2- younger people are less & less interested in the outdoors
in general. The demand for boats (relative to the
population) is shrinking.

But hey, if it was all gonna be easy, it wouldn't be fun!

Fair Skies
Doug King

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:36:48 -0500, DSK wrote:

We burn about 1 3/4 gph cruising about 7 to 7.5 knots. The
boat will (in theory) go 8.5 but fuel consumption starts
getting up into the 5gph range and we make a loke of wake
and foam and noise, for not a lot of speed gained.

Here's another data point:

On our Grand Banks 49 we average about 1 gallon per mile on extended
cruises unless we make a really concious effort to economize which can
save an additional 10 to 20%. That includes about 4 hours per day of
generator time, running on both engines, and using active stabilizers
virtually 100% of the time. Our average speed is about 8.5 kts,
slowing to about 7.9 if we are really trying to stretch the fuel.

DSK inscribed in red ink for all to know:
Budget max to buy is low $100k's. Annual budget would be in the
neighborhood of $25-30k.



Cap'n Ric wrote:

Annual budget of 30K for a power boat isn't much unless you plan on
not going very far.


Or get a boat that is fuel efficient (ie not a speedboat)
From what I have read, and talking to a lot of different cruiser in
both power & sail bost, there isn't a whole lot of difference in the
cost of cruising (unless you are burning fuel to make ten tons of boat &
furniture plane).

DSK


I can only offer this direct, real-world comparison. Two years ago, we
(and our 50' ketch, Perkins 4-236 4 cyl diesel) made a month-long trip
from Seattle to Desolation Sound and back. During the same time frame,
friends of ours down the dock made essentially the same trip in their
55' (?) trawler-style power boat. Not sure of the power plants, but
they are also diesel. We burned 95 gallons of diesel over the course of
the month. The power boat burned 895 gallons of diesel.

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

RW Salnick wrote:
DSK inscribed in red ink for all to know:

Budget max to buy is low $100k's. Annual budget would be in the
neighborhood of $25-30k.




Cap'n Ric wrote:

Annual budget of 30K for a power boat isn't much unless you plan on
not going very far.



Or get a boat that is fuel efficient (ie not a speedboat)
From what I have read, and talking to a lot of different cruiser in
both power & sail bost, there isn't a whole lot of difference in the
cost of cruising (unless you are burning fuel to make ten tons of boat
& furniture plane).

DSK


I can only offer this direct, real-world comparison. Two years ago, we
(and our 50' ketch, Perkins 4-236 4 cyl diesel) made a month-long trip
from Seattle to Desolation Sound and back. During the same time frame,
friends of ours down the dock made essentially the same trip in their
55' (?) trawler-style power boat. Not sure of the power plants, but
they are also diesel. We burned 95 gallons of diesel over the course of
the month. The power boat burned 895 gallons of diesel.

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle


How much time was spent under sail?