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How many boats does it take
This weekend the City of Hampton VA allowed 2 million gallons of raw
sewage to wash into the James River just outside the Chesapeake Bay. The cause was 3 inches of rain fall. They must have never heard of berms like all the private petroleum companies have to have around their tanks. Of coarse the city is exempt from any sanctions. I wonder how many boats does it take to produce 2 million gallons of sewage. Somethings wrong with this picture. Ron |
How many boats does it take
Yep, and they keep making no discharge zones where on-board treatment
systems like the Lectrasan can't be used, even though they treat waste better than the municipal plants. We keep trying to get the Saxton bill through, but hasn't made it yet. -- Keith __ Yachting is actually living in extravagant squalor. "Ron Thornton" wrote in message ... This weekend the City of Hampton VA allowed 2 million gallons of raw sewage to wash into the James River just outside the Chesapeake Bay. The cause was 3 inches of rain fall. They must have never heard of berms like all the private petroleum companies have to have around their tanks. Of coarse the city is exempt from any sanctions. I wonder how many boats does it take to produce 2 million gallons of sewage. Somethings wrong with this picture. Ron |
How many boats does it take
Boats don't produce "sewage", a mixture of dangerous chemicals, heavy
metals, amazingly toxic biology bred by long trips in hot pipes underground. Boats produce the same thing as whales, bottlenosed dolphins, and a billion other species that dump into the sea soup mix of recyclable materials........unless you put it in a holding tank and TURN it into sewage with chemical crap out of a bottle and store it for a month. THEN, it's sewage! Human waste is just as much food, on a much smaller scale, as whale waste if you flush it directly overboard. Of course, we're brainwashed from birth to think that anything associated with "down there" is filthy, nasty, dirty and, most of all, ungodly unless it produces a new revenue source for religion to be exploited. Human urine is one of the most germ free substances on earth! On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:20:20 -0400 (EDT), (Ron Thornton) wrote: This weekend the City of Hampton VA allowed 2 million gallons of raw sewage to wash into the James River just outside the Chesapeake Bay. The cause was 3 inches of rain fall. They must have never heard of berms like all the private petroleum companies have to have around their tanks. Of coarse the city is exempt from any sanctions. I wonder how many boats does it take to produce 2 million gallons of sewage. Somethings wrong with this picture. Ron Larry Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe. You can tell because they never tried to contact us. |
How many boats does it take
Ron Thornton wrote:
This weekend the City of Hampton VA allowed 2 million gallons of raw sewage to wash into the James River just outside the Chesapeake Bay. The cause was 3 inches of rain fall. They must have never heard of berms like all the private petroleum companies have to have around their tanks. Of coarse the city is exempt from any sanctions. I wonder how many boats does it take to produce 2 million gallons of sewage. Somethings wrong with this picture. Ron vbg about 25,000 with our admittedly oversized holding tank. It's probably closer to 100,000 boats pumping straight out for that day and much of THAT would be considered okay if directly "discharged" without benefit of the MSD, so figure about a quarter of a million boats...... -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
How many boats does it take
I don't disagree with your attitude- but your "facts" are suspect -
next to your colon, your bladder lining is the biggest shedder of dead cells - ie. **** in a bowl, cover with saran wrap for 2-3 weeks and drink that - how about even smell that. On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 00:40:55 GMT, (Larry) wrote: Human urine is one of the most germ free substances on earth! |
How many boats does it take
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 20:37:52 -0700, ouch wrote:
I don't disagree with your attitude- but your "facts" are suspect - next to your colon, your bladder lining is the biggest shedder of dead cells - ie. **** in a bowl, cover with saran wrap for 2-3 weeks and drink that - how about even smell that. Point is....we're the only species on the planet that makes it a crime to **** in the water. Billions of marine life thinks nothing of it and hasn't for billions of years. According to your theory, the ocean should be brown by now, not that azure blue and so clear you can see the bottom in 100' of water. What do you think the crabs and shrimp eat, crab and shrimp food?...(c; Human waste, like every other animal waste on the planet is made for nature to RECYCLE!....not turned into chemical sewage with a 20,000 year half-life. The Japanese haul it out of their outhouses and fertilize their food with it! Notice how many Japanese there are? It works! Larry Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe. You can tell because they never tried to contact us. |
How many boats does it take
Berms would do more to pollute the water than to prevent
pollution...because, unlike oil which has to be contained and retrieved, dilution--which would be prevented if the tidal and current flow were blocked by berms--is essential in both waste treatment AND spill recovery. Yours is just one more example of the kind of knee-jerk emotional reaction without any knowledge to back it up that the environmental extremists count on to support their own self-serving agendae. Peggie ---------- Peggie Hall Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987 Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor" http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html Ron Thornton wrote: This weekend the City of Hampton VA allowed 2 million gallons of raw sewage to wash into the James River just outside the Chesapeake Bay. The cause was 3 inches of rain fall. They must have never heard of berms like all the private petroleum companies have to have around their tanks. Of coarse the city is exempt from any sanctions. I wonder how many boats does it take to produce 2 million gallons of sewage. Somethings wrong with this picture. Ron |
How many boats does it take
ouch wrote in message . ..
I don't disagree with your attitude- but your "facts" are suspect - next to your colon, your bladder lining is the biggest shedder of dead cells - ie. **** in a bowl, cover with saran wrap for 2-3 weeks and drink that - how about even smell that. Your urine should be sterile on exit, if its not you are ill. Of course it smells after a while, that's because lots of bugs eat it. Any nutritious substance smells after a while. What has dead cells got to do with anything; the sea is full of cells many of them structured into wondeful organisms ! |
How many boats does it take
the problem is not "if" we **** in the water but "where we **** in the water".
Out in the deep water mother nature can handle an occasional dump. Where we get into trouble is when we discharge into slow moving creeks or close to beaches that dont see alot of current. The thing that bothers me is that where I live, all of the municipal sewage treatment plants are built on small creeks. Its rare to see a creek anymore that does'nt look grey. I dont think that people realize that creeks dont naturally look grey. |
How many boats does it take
"Ron Thornton" wrote in message ... This weekend the City of Hampton VA allowed 2 million gallons of raw sewage to wash into the James River just outside the Chesapeake Bay. The cause was 3 inches of rain fall. They must have never heard of berms like all the private petroleum companies have to have around their tanks. Of coarse the city is exempt from any sanctions. I wonder how many boats does it take to produce 2 million gallons of sewage. Somethings wrong with this picture. year the The whole thing pales by comparison to what has happened on the Great Lakes. Last year the cities of Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha dumped in excess of TWO BILLION GALLONS of untreated sewerage into Lake Michigan!!! |
How many boats does it take
Let's take a look at the record he
Peggie Hall : has regularly contributed solid and sound advice to anyone asking for it...promptly, courteously, and professionally. Her posts are always informative, and her opinions and statements always supportable by facts. Ron Thornton : blathers on with an emotional rant, unsupported by facts, and when called on it, attempts a feeble and rude "your full of ****" comment in support of his opinion. Yea...that just reeks of credibility (NOT). Good lord...you're even using web tv! Aol to complicated for ya little fella? Now you be a good lil boy and go fume and stew over this for a while. I'm sure you'll find a reply that befits your schoolboy mentality eventually. Peggie - thanks for the long standing good advice and help you've provided! We appreciate you. Please ignore the dufus. Ron Thornton wrote: Peggie, Your somewhat insulting response to my post is puzzling. Your view is not supported by the environmental and health professionals both governmental and private (hardly extremist) that have looked at this here. The cities here would much rather have had this spill contained and managed on land than to have had to close their beaches. You should stick to hand pumped toilets and holding takes because you have demonstrated many times over the years here that when you don't, your are as full of **** as the James river was last weekend. Ron |
How many boats does it take
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How many boats does it take
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How many boats does it take
Larry wrote: ....we're the only species on the planet that makes it a crime to **** in the water. Wonderful logic, Larry. Do you have any stock market advice, too? DSK |
How many boats does it take
I, personally, think the sewage plants, run by a government
bureaucracy that's not accountable to anyone but itself, is mostly a big lie. well done larry! creek & rivers up here in western NY are of not much concern to most people.Thats because they have never seen a clean one. Ive seen small creeks that cant even support a spec of life .Ive followed the creek where i keep my sailboat, to its origin. It begins at a shut down chemical plant where I observed a light brown dust covering the bottom & no plant life within 3' of the creekbank. As it continues, straight pipes from individual septic tanks , & 2 sewage treatment plants liven it up a bit. The way the PPM requirment is satisfied is by adding canal water to dilute the concoction. Farther downstream we have a few food processing plants. All of this input enters lake ontario & if theres not enough rain to wash it out, a huge 18" thick cake of steaming **** called "cladifora" floats at the entrance & sometimes blocks me in or out of the creek. the DEC & EPA are no help. they just blow smoke up my ass |
How many boats does it take
"Larry" wrote in message ... On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 07:10:28 -0400, "Mark Weaver" wrote: No, that's wrong. Dumping human (and animal) waste into the waters has effects that fish and whale poop don't because human and domestic animal waste contain bacteria which are dangerous to human health. This is why beaches are closed when levels of E Coli and fecal coliform bacteria are too high (which happens when sewage systems overflow). I disagree. Human waste is no different than waste from a whale WHEN IT COMES OUT OF A HUMAN. You don' t **** E Coli or fecal coliform bacteria or YOU'D BE DEAD ALREADY! You don't get to 'disagree' on this one -- you're wrong. E coli live in the healthy digestive tract of cattle and in the digestive tract of people who happen to be infected at any given time (most E coli infections don't cause death -- just diarrhea). There is no requirement for waste to sit in sewers for E coli to end up in feces -- it's there already. Here's an overview of the issue: http://www.epa.gov/emfjulte/tpmcmaia/html/fecal.html Mark |
How many boats does it take - OT solution.
Fred Miller wrote:
"Ron Thornton" wrote This weekend the City of Hampton VA allowed 2 million gallons of raw sewage to wash into the James River ... The whole thing pales by comparison to what has happened on the Great Lakes. Last year the cities of Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha dumped in excess of TWO BILLION GALLONS of untreated sewerage into Lake Michigan!!! Hey, as long as people have more and more kids and encourage immigration we're going to have more and more sewage. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about symptoms like not enough air, etc, etc, when the real problem is too many people. Jeeze, one idiot over on rec.rv was whining about development and keeping the wilderness for his kids to enjoy - all seven of them! Excuse the rant ... Howard |
How many boats does it take
the problem is not "if" we **** in the water but "where we **** in the
water". My boat is in San Francisco Bay and there is good water movement due to good tidal movement. In spite of that, in my marina, in the shallow end near to shore, there is often a film of 'unnatural' looking origin. I suspect it is from waste being discharged. There is of course no way for me to confirm this. I wonder if some people in the marina are discharging waste. As a nurse, I can tell you that urine is definitely 'sterile', (without bacteria) unless you have a urinary tract infection or have some other disease. However, 'sterile', in this case is not synonymous with 'clean'. Urine is waste. That's why our bodies get rid of it. Given enough of it in a small area of water, it does effect the water quality. Where that line is, I don't know. I suspect that the closer to shore you are, the less it takes to actually detract from the quality of shore beauty. My two cents Mark |
How many boats does it take
The whole thing pales by comparison to what has happened on the Great Lakes.
Last year the cities of Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha dumped in excess of TWO BILLION GALLONS of untreated sewerage into Lake Michigan!!! In this country, we are worried and on the lookout for terrorists who threaten to disrupt our economy, quality of life, and ways of life. Has anyone considered that this has been happening for years by polluters who destroy fisheries, recreational areas and drinking water supplies? The bodies of water are the golden goose and they destroy with impunity. Who suffers? All of us, in some way or another, do. Higher prices for protein source food, health problems (cancer), due to ingesting carcinogens, lack of recreational diversions, loss of jobs in canneries, fishing, restaurant, fish marketing, and related industries are just a few of many. It's astounding that this is even allowed to happen in this age of supposed ecological sensitivity. Mark |
How many boats does it take
"Larry" wrote in message ... On 12 Aug 2003 12:15:26 GMT, (Wwj2110) wrote: excuse in 1989, the plants were backflushed into the river creating an environmental disaster that the river still feels to this day, 14 years later. The river smelled just like the sewer for over a year before the tide finally flushed it out enough it didn't just stink. They dump about 14,000,000 gallons of "treated wastewater", whatever the hell that means, into it DAILY. The Ashley River IS the sewer...... Probably the US in general is not really up to date when it comes to protecting environment? I'm just thinking about the rotten cars that you find in many backyards, plastic & foam stuff wrapped around the burgers, countless plastic bags, cars with low fuel efficiency, no wind/solar energy concept, the refusal to sign the Kyoto protocol, ... just my $.02 #rb |
How many boats does it take - OT solution.
"Vito" wrote in message ... Hey, as long as people have more and more kids and encourage immigration we're going to have more and more sewage. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about symptoms like not enough air, etc, etc, when the real problem is too many people. Jeeze, one idiot over on rec.rv was whining about development and keeping the wilderness for his kids to enjoy - all seven of them! Excuse the rant ... Howard You should have a look at the facts. The birthrate is just OK and US growth rate is just 0.9% |
How many boats does it take
"MLapla4120" wrote in message ... The whole thing pales by comparison to what has happened on the Great Lakes. Last year the cities of Milwaukee, Racine and Kenosha dumped in excess of TWO BILLION GALLONS of untreated sewerage into Lake Michigan!!! In this country, we are worried and on the lookout for terrorists who threaten to disrupt our economy, quality of life, and ways of life. Has anyone considered that this has been happening for years by polluters who destroy fisheries, recreational areas and drinking water supplies? The bodies of water are the golden goose and they destroy with impunity. The 'polluters' we're talking about here are not evil, greedy multinational corporations -- they are cities and towns who lack the funds to upgrade antiquated sewer systems immediately. Even so, these discharges are much less common than they used to be and the Great Lakes are much cleaner (30 years ago, Lake Erie was considered 'dead' -- now it is clear and full of fish). After all, it used to be that raw sewage was dumped into the lakes routinely. Mark |
How many boats does it take
"RaBi" wrote in message ... "Larry" wrote in message ... On 12 Aug 2003 12:15:26 GMT, (Wwj2110) wrote: excuse in 1989, the plants were backflushed into the river creating an environmental disaster that the river still feels to this day, 14 years later. The river smelled just like the sewer for over a year before the tide finally flushed it out enough it didn't just stink. They dump about 14,000,000 gallons of "treated wastewater", whatever the hell that means, into it DAILY. The Ashley River IS the sewer...... Probably the US in general is not really up to date when it comes to protecting environment? I'm just thinking about the rotten cars that you find in many backyards, plastic & foam stuff wrapped around the burgers, countless plastic bags, cars with low fuel efficiency, no wind/solar energy concept, the refusal to sign the Kyoto protocol, ... I think you check, you'll find that the US is ahead of the most of the world in environmental protection (with the notable exception of Kyoto). We don't have all the dirty, particulate-spewing diesel-powered passenger cars. Our cars are not fuel efficient on average but they're clean -- in the rest of the world they may be more efficient but they're dirtier. For example, catalytic converters were introduced in the US in 1974 but weren't required by law in Europe until 1993: http://www.uyseg.org/catalysis/catalytic/cat1.htm And, in fact, the US environment is far cleaner than it used to be. Waters are much cleaner than a generation ago, air also. Huge amounts of forest have regrown in the last century. Sewage discharges remain a problem in some areas, but they're not nearly the problem they once were. Double-crested Cormorants, once a threatened species in the era of DDT are now becoming a nuisance in the Great Lakes and Bald Eagles are now a fairly common sight. Even the range of large predators are expanding (wolves, bears, mtn lions). Mark |
How many boats does it take - OT solution.
RaBi wrote:
"Vito" wrote in message ... Hey, as long as people have more and more kids and encourage immigration we're going to have more and more sewage. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing about symptoms like not enough air, etc, etc, when the real problem is too many people. Jeeze, one idiot over on rec.rv was whining about development and keeping the wilderness for his kids to enjoy - all seven of them! Excuse the rant ... Howard You should have a look at the facts. The birthrate is just OK and US growth rate is just 0.9% For at least the last couple of decades, the US birthrate have been lower than the death rate. All growth has been immigration, legal and illegal. That's pretty common in countries with higher standards of living. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
How many boats does it take
Mark Weaver wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message .. . Boats don't produce "sewage", a mixture of dangerous chemicals, heavy metals, amazingly toxic biology bred by long trips in hot pipes underground. Boats produce the same thing as whales, bottlenosed dolphins, and a billion other species that dump into the sea soup mix of recyclable materials........unless you put it in a holding tank and TURN it into sewage with chemical crap out of a bottle and store it for a month. THEN, it's sewage! Human waste is just as much food, on a much smaller scale, as whale waste if you flush it directly overboard. No, that's wrong. Dumping human (and animal) waste into the waters has effects that fish and whale poop don't because human and domestic animal waste contain bacteria which are dangerous to human health. This is why beaches are closed when levels of E Coli and fecal coliform bacteria are too high (which happens when sewage systems overflow). E Coli and similar are natural, even though dangerous when too concentrated. On the Chesapeake's Eastern shore, they were really confused about high E.Coli counts in areas where there were no significant human sources. The culprits wound up being the raccoons who flourish in the face of virtually no predators. -- Jere Lull Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD) Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ |
How many boats does it take
What the heck is a "moon eye"?
-- Keith __ Backup not found. [A]bort, [R]etry, [P]anic... "Larry" wrote in message ... Aha! THAT's the reason for the millions of "Moon Eyes" washed up on the beach at Fair Haven Beach State Park where I grew up in my father's umbrella tent in the camping area each summer! Man MOON EYES STINK! On 12 Aug 2003 19:51:46 GMT, (Wwj2110) wrote: I, personally, think the sewage plants, run by a government bureaucracy that's not accountable to anyone but itself, is mostly a big lie. well done larry! creek & rivers up here in western NY are of not much concern to most people.Thats because they have never seen a clean one. Ive seen small creeks that cant even support a spec of life .Ive followed the creek where i keep my sailboat, to its origin. It begins at a shut down chemical plant where I observed a light brown dust covering the bottom & no plant life within 3' of the creekbank. As it continues, straight pipes from individual septic tanks , & 2 sewage treatment plants liven it up a bit. The way the PPM requirment is satisfied is by adding canal water to dilute the concoction. Farther downstream we have a few food processing plants. All of this input enters lake ontario & if theres not enough rain to wash it out, a huge 18" thick cake of steaming **** called "cladifora" floats at the entrance & sometimes blocks me in or out of the creek. the DEC & EPA are no help. they just blow smoke up my ass Larry Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe. You can tell because they never tried to contact us. |
How many boats does it take
"Mark Weaver" wrote in message ... I think you check, you'll find that the US is ahead of the most of the world in environmental protection (with the notable exception of Kyoto). ACK - compared to most of the world including third world countries but not compared to industrial countries in Europe We don't have all the dirty, particulate-spewing diesel-powered passenger cars. Diesel particles are no major environmental issue, filters / catalytic converters are on the way and modern engines aren't that dirty. And from an efficiency point of view diesel engines are much better. Just go and check fuel efficiency of current Mercedes CDI or Volkswagen/Audi TDI engines and you get the picture. 40-50 miles per gallon are no marketing hype - they are real and achieveable under normal circumstances. Fuel is still very, very cheap in the US so nobody cares about efficiency. Our cars are not fuel efficient on average but they're clean -- in the rest of the world they may be more efficient but they're dirtier. ? I have traveled most countries of Europe and have been several times to the US and my perceived impression quite different. (Except if you compare the US to 3rd world countries). I agree that most cars in the US are modern clean but inefficient cars but there are many old / unmaintained cars on the road which pollute the air. You won't find that number here in Europe (cars have to go to emisison check every 2 years in Germany and similar regulations exist throughout Europe). For example, catalytic converters were introduced in the US in 1974 but weren't required by law in Europe until 1993: http://www.uyseg.org/catalysis/catalytic/cat1.htm Introduced does not mean required. You are comparing apples & oranges here. What was the real deployment rate of converters? And are people forced to maintain them? Are public / army vehicles required to have converters? I remember that most waste management and army cars blow huge black clouds! And, in fact, the US environment is far cleaner than it used to be. Still not as good as it could be. One major problem I see is the throw-away lifestyle. IMHO the US has an advanced economy but is far behind in environmental protection. US should start with signing Kyoto. And probably stop using plastic/foam for throw-away stuff like coffee cups & burger wrappers (paper works, too). |
How many boats does it take
My point in the original post was that the government allows large
sewage discharges into our waterways with apparently little or no long term impact in many areas. The posts here and in previous threads verify that it is not just an isolated example. Most boats stay on trailers or at the peer most of the time. I do not believe there are that many pleasure boats cruising around the east coast, yet they seem to have zeroed in on pleasure craft as a major contributor. Writing to my congress men didn't seem to have any impact. How did this happen to us and how can we get out of it? Ron To lazy to get out of my Lazy boy where the Webtv is hooked to a large screen to do this from my dual processor server or P IV, 2 gig workstation that are 15 feet away. |
How many boats does it take
Mark Weaver wrote:
You don't get to 'disagree' on this one -- you're wrong. Mark, FWIW you're talking to a dial tone here. "Larry" used to talk like he had some sense, but nowadays he has joined the ranks of brainless right-wing whackos who cannot accept a plain fact... if it doesn't bolster their prejudices, it's wrong no matter if they just saw it for themselves with their own eyes... Thanks for the link, but don't waste your time trying to argue with "Larry." DSK |
How many boats does it take
My point in the original post was that the government allows large
sewage discharges into our waterways with apparently little or no long term impact in many areas. The posts here and in previous threads verify that it is not just an isolated example. Most boats stay on trailers or at the peer most of the time. I do not believe there are that many pleasure boats cruising around the east coast, yet they seem to have zeroed in on pleasure craft as a major contributor. Writing to my congress men didn't seem to have any impact. How did this happen to us and how can we get out of it? Ron heres the irony: we are supposed to dump our holding tanks into marina holding tanks ,which in turn dump their holding tanks into the municipal sewage treatment facility, which in turn dumps it back in the creek |
How many boaters does it take to change this
Vito,
I think that we hear sewage is the problem so we believe it. I don't disagree that specific areas like the Florida Keys have a problem but I don't believe the general no discharge rule for boats is based in science. I dive with several of the Virginia environmental agents. These guys are well educated and very experienced. They say that the big problem is the polluted runoff from our roadways and parking lots (gas, oil, transmission and brake fluid, etc.). Second is the nutrient runoff from thousands of miles of river front farms and the lawns of homes from fertilizer. All of this goes into our waterways either directly or thru storm drains. There opinions come from long term real studies not just hearsay. They don't say it point blank, but they insinuate that sewage is very manageable by comparison. I would expect that it is probably the same in the rest of the country. This leaves me to conclude that the regulators either never get the true scientific picture or are ignoring it, most probably for political reasons. I for one am tired of having to look hard to find pump out stations. Remember how they told us there was going to be a one at almost every marina. About the only time I go offshore is to dive, not frequent enough to keep my holding tank empty. Boaters believed these hollow promises and allowed this to happen. I don't know of any boating organization who lobbies long and hard against this which is a shame because collectively we are a large voting block. So Back to the question. What can we do about this? |
How many boats does it take - OT solution.
"Vito" wrote in message ... RaBi wrote: You should have a look at the facts. The birthrate is just OK and US growth rate is just 0.9% That don't compute. The LA basin was largely empty 50 years ago. All those seperate towns were really seperate. A) The LA basin isn't representative of the country as a whole, and B) Nobody said there was no population growth going on 50 years ago -- 50 years ago the country was in the middle of the post WWII baby boom. Mark |
How many boaters does it take to change this
"Ron Thornton" wrote in message news:21565-3F3A57AE- I dive with several of the Virginia environmental agents. These guys are well educated and very experienced. They say that the big problem is the polluted runoff from our roadways and parking lots (gas, oil, transmission and brake fluid, etc.). Second is the nutrient runoff from thousands of miles of river front farms and the lawns of homes from fertilizer. All of this goes into our waterways either directly or thru storm drains. There opinions come from long term real studies not just hearsay. They don't say it point blank, but they insinuate that sewage is very manageable by comparison. That's true--chemical and fertilizer runoff is a bigger problem. Sewage is more a problem for human health (in using beaches and eating shellfish) than a problem that damages the environment (except that combined sewer overflows also contain a lot lawn and parking lot runoff). But the fact that these are bigger (and different) problems doesn't mean that we shouldn't do anything about sewage. Mark |
How many boats does it take - OT solution.
Mark Weaver wrote:
Sigh--it has nothing really to do with more people. It has to do with outdated sewer systems .... There is a need to upgrade sewer systems but that is treating just one symptom of the primary problem which is "too many people". We can put a band aid on acid rain with scrubbers to, etc etc. but none of these "solutions" address the real source of the trouble. Those old sewers were adequate just 50 years ago. They leaked raw sewage then too, but the amounts were small enough for the streams and lakes to recover. That's no longer true because we have so many people making too much sewage for both the "antiquated" plants and for the rivers they dump into. As a teen we used to dive in a beautiful kelp forest. It's an underwater desert now, thanks to LA sewage. We used to chase jackrabbite across the Mojave too. Damage was inconsequental because there were so few of us. Now it'd be criminal to do the same - not for 2 or 3 bikes but for 20 or 30,000! There's just as much desert but now there's too many people to permit riding in it. There's just as much air and water too but .... )c: |
How many boats does it take
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 06:34:35 -0500, "Keith"
wrote: What the heck is a "moon eye"? A flat little silver fish with big eyes that die by the billions after breeding and wash up on Lake Ontario beaches by the millions, making "going to the beach" sort of like "going to the dumpster at the boat ramp after the fishermen have been there". PU! Not sure what their real name is.... Larry Extremely intelligent life must exist in the universe. You can tell because they never tried to contact us. |
How many boats does it take
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How many boaters does it take to change this
Mark,
I'm not suggesting we do nothing about sewage, just get the focus off us and onto the real problems. I believe boaters are regulated on this issue because we are an easy target and not because we have a big impact on the environment. Ron Still in the Lazyboy. |
How many boats does it take - OT solution.
"Vito" wrote in message ... Mark Weaver wrote: A) The LA basin isn't representative of the country as a whole, and Agreed, but Fredricksburg, Va is now as crowded as Alexandria was just 20 years ago and the farms between Rockville and Fredrick Md have been buried under houses and apartments, and .... Maybe that is not caused by growth in terms of people but in terms of comfort level? I guess many people now live in larger houses and nobody wants to live in small flats anymore? Malls get bigger and bigger, airports continue to grow, ... If you don't want kids who the heck should pay your pension? If a country's people start aging you will run into problems as only few young people work and many older people need help / medical care. |
How many boats does it take - OT solution.
Mark Weaver wrote:
A) The LA basin isn't representative of the country as a whole, and Agreed, but Fredricksburg, Va is now as crowded as Alexandria was just 20 years ago and the farms between Rockville and Fredrick Md have been buried under houses and apartments, and .... B) Nobody said there was no population growth going on 50 years ago -- 50 years ago the country was in the middle of the post WWII baby boom. Thank you. I hear there's another boom starting. |
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