I have been reading lately that gasohol is bad for boat engines. It
deteriorates in 30 to 60 days, and I'm not sure products like Stabil can control
it. I personally have put
Stabil in my gas just after buying it, yet I have had to clean the jets on my
Yamaha
9.9T three times this season. I have two filters, one on the tank line and one
in the
engine, but they are not doing the job. Someone recommended going to 10 micron
filters. I don't know what is inside the engine but my tank filter is 40
microns. If the
gasohol truely breaks down this quickly, one would have to plan to swap out the
boat gas at frequent intervals. I'm also told the newer tank lines are made of
a material that is more resistant to the gasohol problem. Right now, I don't
have any
good solutions to this problem.

Sherwin D.

sherwindu wrote in
:

I have been reading lately that gasohol is bad for boat engines. It
deteriorates in 30 to 60 days, and I'm not sure products like Stabil
can control it. I personally have put
Stabil in my gas just after buying it, yet I have had to clean the
jets on my Yamaha
9.9T three times this season. I have two filters, one on the tank
line and one in the
engine, but they are not doing the job. Someone recommended going to
10 micron filters. I don't know what is inside the engine but my tank
filter is 40 microns. If the
gasohol truely breaks down this quickly, one would have to plan to
swap out the boat gas at frequent intervals. I'm also told the newer
tank lines are made of a material that is more resistant to the
gasohol problem. Right now, I don't have any
good solutions to this problem.



Wanna make it stop? Simply RUN THE ENGINE DRY every time you use it.

There's nothing in the gas clogging up the Yamaha. The gas in the float
bowl is simply evaporating leaving behind a brown coating of shellac on
everything, including the inside to the tiny jets that meter the fuel.
Switching to a 4-stroke outboard makes this problem MUCH worse because
there is no lube oil in the gas to keep the shellac soft and dissolvable
between uses, so it turns to hard shellac and clogs the carbs all up.

Take the time to unplug the gas tank from the motor and run it dry at the
dock, instead of just shutting it down and going anal retentive on deck
cleaning. The filters filter out particles. There aren't any, just gas.
It's the gas that's the problem, itself. A 1-micron filter isn't going
to cure it.

Stop wasting your time on the diesel-fuel-in-a-can products like Stabil.
It's useless.....here's why....

Gas never "goes bad". What?! You must be CRAZY! ALL gas "goes bad".

No, that's not true. Gas EVAPORATES and the lighter elements in the gas
that give it its octane power always evaporate first, leaving you with a
tank full of heavier elements and gas with very low octane
rating....still gas, but hard to fire with spark plugs.

Solution - NEVER leave a tank EMPTY, like every boat at the dock does all
the time, gas or diesel.

A half empty gas or diesel tank BREATHES, every 24 hours, a large volume
of vapor. As the sun rises, the tank pressurizes as the vapor pressure
increases with temperature. The vapor, loaded with those light elements
that make gas go great, are pumped out whatever vent there is throughout
the day. You notice a slight smell of fuel near the vent pipe. The sun
sets, the air cools, the relative humidity of the air goes to 100% and
coats everything it touches with dew. The tank cools, the vapor pressure
drops to less than the air pressure and sucks in a big volume of water-
saturated air all night at 100% humidity. The tank cools below the dew
point of this load of rain and water condenses on the exposed walls of
the tank, forming droplets whos weight exceed the capillary action of
them sticking to the walls. The droplets get bigger as gravity slides
them down into other droplets, forming drops. As they slide past the
level of the fuel, being heavier than fuel, the slide down under the fuel
to collect in the exact point the manufacturer put the pickup tube for
the engine....the lowest point. Eventually, later when it's too late,
the water will get deep enough, because under the fuel load it will NOT
evaporate again when the tank gets hot tomorrow, the pickup tube will
suck it up into the cheap gas filters without a water separator and it
will end up snuggled against the main jet in the bottom of the float bowl
of the engine, making it run like crap or refuse to start or stall out as
soon as you start it.

The other problem recreates it self every morning as this dastardly cycle
continues unabated every 24 hours....when the next load of vapors with
those light elements that make gas go get expelled, leaving behind gas on
its way to becoming that awful smelling shellac we call "bad gas".

Out in my storage shed, where the temperature goes to 10F in winter and
130F all summer, there sits a Honda EX5000 5KW generator. The feed tank
on the Honda is perfect...it's STEEL, not plastic. (More about plastic
in a second.) I bought this genset in 1989 just after 2 lawyers
advertised it when their power came back on after Hurricane Hugo, which
tore Charleston up awful. I've owned it ever since. Inside that steel
gas tank, in that awful hot storage shed, is about 2 gallons of the
cheapest regular gas available, from the cheapest station near home. The
tank is FULL to the point of overflowing. It cannot BREATHE as there is
no vapor space but a tiny bubble right under the cap. It has been that
way since 1989, always filled to the brim. I don't run the genset on
this tank. I have a fishtank air manifold, of brass, that lets me feed
the genset from a siphon hose, directly from my jerry cans, never having
to shut down the genset/let it cool/fill this tank/restart, which I think
is stupid. (You simply pinch the hose, remove it from jerry can A and
put it in jerry can B and let go the pinch and the siphon drop from the
jerry cans sitting on a little chair or other stand refills the carb,
continuously.) The gas in the tank is only used to fill the siphon hose
at the beginning of each use so I don't have to suck on it to get it
started. (Just lay the hose out under the tanks and open both manifold
valves until gas spurts out the hose, close the tank valve and insert the
hose into the first jerry can....simple.) So, I know the gas in the tank
is 1989 regular gas...no "stabilizer", no diesel-fuel-in-a-can for $8 a
pint. The generator bowl initially fills when you open these valves,
also from the 1989 gas in the tank, AND STARTS INSTANTLY EVERY TIME ON
THE FIRST OR SECOND PULL ON THE RECOIL STARTER.

So much for the "bad ol' gas" bull****. Simply KEEP THE TANK FULL SO IT
CANNOT BREATHE. Diesel doesn't evaporate like gas, being an oil, but
that water sliding down the walls from the half full diesel tank, every
boat at your marina has, causes diesel fuel to GROW ALGAE whos spores are
also SUCKED INTO THE HALF-FULL TANK. Algae cannot grow in diesel fuel
WITHOUT WATER to drink! If we fill the diesel tank, every time we use
it, no water will be ingested, no algae spores, either, and the algae
spores in the diesel fuel CANNOT live without water to drink...solving
that problem, too, without diesel-fuel-in-a-can agent orange at $8/pint.

A word about plastic tankage. IT SUCKS. The problem with polyethylene
is it's made from petroleum and its molecules are HUGE! In between the
huge molecules are spaces not big enough for gasoline to leak through,
BUT big enough for those little light molecules that give gas its high
octane kick to go through! Ever notice how a boat with a plastic gas
tank ALWAYS smells like there's a slight gas leak? There is! It's the
light molecules leaking through the cheap plastic tank! Those plastic
jerry cans also leak these molecules something awful because they're
thinner. Put a plastic jerry can full of gas to the top in your van and
drive it home. Even though it didn't leak a drop of gas around the
filler, your van smells like gas by the time you get home just awful. It
leaks that bad, that fast. NEVER store gas in a plastic jug over a week
or it will "go bad" leaking its light molecules into the surrounding air.
Anyone with a storage shed with a plastic gas tank in it full of gas
knows it always smells like gas. That's why....it's LEAKING! Plastic
boat tanks also suffer from this problem, but the storage time can
probably be extended to a month because the tanks are thicker walled,
reducing the molecular leakage some, and there's lots of gas in the tank
making lots more molecules available to be left over. DON'T STORE THE
BOAT WITH THE PLASTIC TANK WITH GAS IN IT. Run it as dry as you can get
it, drain the carb by running it dry, too, then put fresh gas in the
cheapass plastic tankage in the spring. You can't stop it from
leakage...unless you swap the crap tank for METAL.

A word on GASOHOL...or as we say in America now, "premium gas". (They're
using alcohol to increase the octane of regular gas and selling it for
premium because what we were using, tetraethyl lead, is forbidden,
now.)...

Alcohol attracts WATER like dropping a sponge into a bucketful. Of
course, here we are in the world wettest region of the planet....on
water. So, running high test gasohol or a real gasohol mix which is
worse, just fills your tank with water....it's OWN condensation problem.
There shouldn't be any questions from the class, so I'll close my lecture
on this note......(c;

Sorry.......(bell rings in hallway, students rush out for sex)
Larry

--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

Wow larry... you should publish that you would put 80% of the carb
rebuilders out of business. So many people bought gas gensets during
the last hurricane and did nothing but put stabil in the tanks (If they
did that...) I suspect most of them won't start this season (Assuming
we get a real hurricane again and not that Ernesto wimp...)

One thing you did not mention was Gasohol's ability to EAT a fiberglass
tank. Great article in Boat US magazine about all the old small
Bertrams having to replace their gas tanks.



Larry wrote:

sherwindu wrote in
:


I have been reading lately that gasohol is bad for boat engines. It
deteriorates in 30 to 60 days, and I'm not sure products like Stabil
can control it. I personally have put
Stabil in my gas just after buying it, yet I have had to clean the
jets on my Yamaha
9.9T three times this season. I have two filters, one on the tank
line and one in the
engine, but they are not doing the job. Someone recommended going to
10 micron filters. I don't know what is inside the engine but my tank
filter is 40 microns. If the
gasohol truely breaks down this quickly, one would have to plan to
swap out the boat gas at frequent intervals. I'm also told the newer
tank lines are made of a material that is more resistant to the
gasohol problem. Right now, I don't have any
good solutions to this problem.




Wanna make it stop? Simply RUN THE ENGINE DRY every time you use it.

There's nothing in the gas clogging up the Yamaha. The gas in the float
bowl is simply evaporating leaving behind a brown coating of shellac on
everything, including the inside to the tiny jets that meter the fuel.
Switching to a 4-stroke outboard makes this problem MUCH worse because
there is no lube oil in the gas to keep the shellac soft and dissolvable
between uses, so it turns to hard shellac and clogs the carbs all up.

Take the time to unplug the gas tank from the motor and run it dry at the
dock, instead of just shutting it down and going anal retentive on deck
cleaning. The filters filter out particles. There aren't any, just gas.
It's the gas that's the problem, itself. A 1-micron filter isn't going
to cure it.

Stop wasting your time on the diesel-fuel-in-a-can products like Stabil.
It's useless.....here's why....

Gas never "goes bad". What?! You must be CRAZY! ALL gas "goes bad".

No, that's not true. Gas EVAPORATES and the lighter elements in the gas
that give it its octane power always evaporate first, leaving you with a
tank full of heavier elements and gas with very low octane
rating....still gas, but hard to fire with spark plugs.

Solution - NEVER leave a tank EMPTY, like every boat at the dock does all
the time, gas or diesel.

A half empty gas or diesel tank BREATHES, every 24 hours, a large volume
of vapor. As the sun rises, the tank pressurizes as the vapor pressure
increases with temperature. The vapor, loaded with those light elements
that make gas go great, are pumped out whatever vent there is throughout
the day. You notice a slight smell of fuel near the vent pipe. The sun
sets, the air cools, the relative humidity of the air goes to 100% and
coats everything it touches with dew. The tank cools, the vapor pressure
drops to less than the air pressure and sucks in a big volume of water-
saturated air all night at 100% humidity. The tank cools below the dew
point of this load of rain and water condenses on the exposed walls of
the tank, forming droplets whos weight exceed the capillary action of
them sticking to the walls. The droplets get bigger as gravity slides
them down into other droplets, forming drops. As they slide past the
level of the fuel, being heavier than fuel, the slide down under the fuel
to collect in the exact point the manufacturer put the pickup tube for
the engine....the lowest point. Eventually, later when it's too late,
the water will get deep enough, because under the fuel load it will NOT
evaporate again when the tank gets hot tomorrow, the pickup tube will
suck it up into the cheap gas filters without a water separator and it
will end up snuggled against the main jet in the bottom of the float bowl
of the engine, making it run like crap or refuse to start or stall out as
soon as you start it.

The other problem recreates it self every morning as this dastardly cycle
continues unabated every 24 hours....when the next load of vapors with
those light elements that make gas go get expelled, leaving behind gas on
its way to becoming that awful smelling shellac we call "bad gas".

Out in my storage shed, where the temperature goes to 10F in winter and
130F all summer, there sits a Honda EX5000 5KW generator. The feed tank
on the Honda is perfect...it's STEEL, not plastic. (More about plastic
in a second.) I bought this genset in 1989 just after 2 lawyers
advertised it when their power came back on after Hurricane Hugo, which
tore Charleston up awful. I've owned it ever since. Inside that steel
gas tank, in that awful hot storage shed, is about 2 gallons of the
cheapest regular gas available, from the cheapest station near home. The
tank is FULL to the point of overflowing. It cannot BREATHE as there is
no vapor space but a tiny bubble right under the cap. It has been that
way since 1989, always filled to the brim. I don't run the genset on
this tank. I have a fishtank air manifold, of brass, that lets me feed
the genset from a siphon hose, directly from my jerry cans, never having
to shut down the genset/let it cool/fill this tank/restart, which I think
is stupid. (You simply pinch the hose, remove it from jerry can A and
put it in jerry can B and let go the pinch and the siphon drop from the
jerry cans sitting on a little chair or other stand refills the carb,
continuously.) The gas in the tank is only used to fill the siphon hose
at the beginning of each use so I don't have to suck on it to get it
started. (Just lay the hose out under the tanks and open both manifold
valves until gas spurts out the hose, close the tank valve and insert the
hose into the first jerry can....simple.) So, I know the gas in the tank
is 1989 regular gas...no "stabilizer", no diesel-fuel-in-a-can for $8 a
pint. The generator bowl initially fills when you open these valves,
also from the 1989 gas in the tank, AND STARTS INSTANTLY EVERY TIME ON
THE FIRST OR SECOND PULL ON THE RECOIL STARTER.

So much for the "bad ol' gas" bull****. Simply KEEP THE TANK FULL SO IT
CANNOT BREATHE. Diesel doesn't evaporate like gas, being an oil, but
that water sliding down the walls from the half full diesel tank, every
boat at your marina has, causes diesel fuel to GROW ALGAE whos spores are
also SUCKED INTO THE HALF-FULL TANK. Algae cannot grow in diesel fuel
WITHOUT WATER to drink! If we fill the diesel tank, every time we use
it, no water will be ingested, no algae spores, either, and the algae
spores in the diesel fuel CANNOT live without water to drink...solving
that problem, too, without diesel-fuel-in-a-can agent orange at $8/pint.

A word about plastic tankage. IT SUCKS. The problem with polyethylene
is it's made from petroleum and its molecules are HUGE! In between the
huge molecules are spaces not big enough for gasoline to leak through,
BUT big enough for those little light molecules that give gas its high
octane kick to go through! Ever notice how a boat with a plastic gas
tank ALWAYS smells like there's a slight gas leak? There is! It's the
light molecules leaking through the cheap plastic tank! Those plastic
jerry cans also leak these molecules something awful because they're
thinner. Put a plastic jerry can full of gas to the top in your van and
drive it home. Even though it didn't leak a drop of gas around the
filler, your van smells like gas by the time you get home just awful. It
leaks that bad, that fast. NEVER store gas in a plastic jug over a week
or it will "go bad" leaking its light molecules into the surrounding air.
Anyone with a storage shed with a plastic gas tank in it full of gas
knows it always smells like gas. That's why....it's LEAKING! Plastic
boat tanks also suffer from this problem, but the storage time can
probably be extended to a month because the tanks are thicker walled,
reducing the molecular leakage some, and there's lots of gas in the tank
making lots more molecules available to be left over. DON'T STORE THE
BOAT WITH THE PLASTIC TANK WITH GAS IN IT. Run it as dry as you can get
it, drain the carb by running it dry, too, then put fresh gas in the
cheapass plastic tankage in the spring. You can't stop it from
leakage...unless you swap the crap tank for METAL.

A word on GASOHOL...or as we say in America now, "premium gas". (They're
using alcohol to increase the octane of regular gas and selling it for
premium because what we were using, tetraethyl lead, is forbidden,
now.)...

Alcohol attracts WATER like dropping a sponge into a bucketful. Of
course, here we are in the world wettest region of the planet....on
water. So, running high test gasohol or a real gasohol mix which is
worse, just fills your tank with water....it's OWN condensation problem.
There shouldn't be any questions from the class, so I'll close my lecture
on this note......(c;

Sorry.......(bell rings in hallway, students rush out for sex)
Larry

Ed wrote in news:cHEJg.21391$y7.9758
@bignews6.bellsouth.net:

One thing you did not mention was Gasohol's ability to EAT a fiberglass
tank. Great article in Boat US magazine about all the old small
Bertrams having to replace their gas tanks.


Someone needs to FORCE them to stop building gas tanks out of GLUE (Epoxy
is glue) and filling them with GLUE SOLVENT. Duhhh doesn't fully explain
how stupid this really is....

As always, just follow the money trail. If some boat builder is standing
there with a chopper gun already in his hand, the accountants just can't
stand for him not to use it on a tank form....no matter what the
consequences....

Tanks should ALL be made of METAL. IN a boat, that metal needs to be
STAINLESS STEEL. After all, they only want a hundred thousand dollars
for the damned thing that has no wheels/suspension/transmission (much of
one)/....They can afford a STAINLESS GAS TANK in all of them.

The old farts like me will remember those old Evinrude pressurized gas
tanks you had to pump up with the little finger air pump to get them to
put gas in the engine, then the engine had a little air pump...probably
the crankcase pulse, actually, I don't remember but that sounds logical,
that kept the tanks pressurized continuously while you were running it.
The tanks were STEEL, had a glass sight guage next to the two-hose
fitting and finger pump in the top. In those days, because this tank had
no vent to pump the fumes (and those light elements you're loosing)
overboard, the gas in them never went "bad". They didn't breathe if the
cap was tight at all. You didn't have to fill them to stop the breathing
because they really had no vent, even if unplugged from the motor because
they had a ball valve in the hose plug. I always thought that was a
great little gas tank arrangement for an outboard motor, especially and
outboard motor that was PORTABLE. The reason is that no matter what
happened to the tank, short of taking a pickax to it, gas never spilled
out of it. And, if you followed the DIRECTIONS written on the side of
that tank and unplugged the motor BEFORE shutting it off to drain the
carb bowl(s), there was no gas to spill in the engine you were putting in
the trunk, either... Those old blue Sportwins just made too much sense
and lasted WAY too long. I see them still buzzing around Charleston in
SALT WATER pushing an old jon boat....without missing a beat.

Grandpa's was the 7.5 Sportwin. AS a kid, with a 1hp Elto on my own
heavy old oak rowboat, I used to love it when he allowed me to ride off
ON PLANE in his aluminum deep-V...much faster than the Elto could push my
heavy, but very stable, rowboat. Can't imagine anyone thinking a 7.5 on
a V-hulled 12' boat is "fast" these days.....hee hee...(c;

By the way, the Elto would push the rowboat around at hull speed (16'
rowboat) all day on about a QUART of 15:1 premix...Quaker State SAE 30
and tractor gas. The engine was always so slimy with oil that leaked out
the exposed carb float pin you flooded it with so it would start you
never had to worry about "corrosion"....(c;

Grandpa had a 500 gallon hand pumped gas tank inside his big garage for
the boats and his new '57 Lincoln Landau 4-door hardtop (black) I used to
shine up to cruise the girls in high school. He was also a dairy farmer
who bought lots of fuel from the local fuel dealer, so when they filled
up the tanks at the farm up the road, they'd come down to the lake house
and fill up the hidden tank in the garage. I suppose when he went to
Florida for the winter, out of range of the tractor gas in the garage
that had no taxes on it, was the only time in his life he paid "gas tax"
to any bureaucrats....(c; In the downstairs outhouse in the lake house
there was another electric meter the big loads, electric range, fridge,
hot water tank, water pump, etc., were hooked to. The "official" meter
NY State Electric & Gouge read was behind the door in the living room
because in winter the snow off the lake was 20' deep at times. The meter
guy only read the living room meter...

I come from a long line of cheats and thieves, as you can tell...(c;
Small time crooks and swindlers....

--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

Ed wrote in news:cHEJg.21391$y7.9758
@bignews6.bellsouth.net:

So many people bought gas gensets during
the last hurricane and did nothing but put stabil in the tanks (If they
did that...)

Oh, no, they were so relieved when the light came back on....

All they did was shut down the gensets, shut off the fuel from the half-
empty plastic gas tanks on the cheap Colemans to the cheap B&S engines,
then put them away with corrosive black lube oil and gooky gas still in
the crankcase/carbs/lines and gas tank.

They got what they deserved this morning when they tried to test it for
TS Ernesto.....no go.

I did crank the beast on 1989 gas just to make sure, myself, if I needed
the Honda. I probably will never need it as there's a Honda EU3000i
electronic 3KW genset I use all the while powering the stepvan shop and
it's dual AC units. The house acquired a 16KW propane-powered Onan
autostart/autoswitch stationary genset from a friend of mine who finally
went out of the paging business a few years back. At home, propane or
natural gas is MUCH better for a genset as it NEVER "goes bad" or
requires draining a carb. Before a storm, you simply go out and look at
the guage on the 250 gallon propane tank to see if you need to call Blue
Flame Gas for a truck delivery. They even call me to see if I've checked
it every month from a list of their automatic-fill customers. The tank
actually belongs to them and was free with purchase of 250 gallons of
Propane...a loaner? It uses around 30-40 gallons per year from power
outages and my maintenance checks. It was a real bargain for $600, even
though I had to go move it and install it myself. I hired a towtruck to
haul it over here for $75. It ran the paging office and main terminal
before. It's got...??....200 hours on the hourmeter?...(c;

After sitting in the dark for THREE MONTHS after Hurricane Hugo tore the
electrical system completely down in our archaic overhead electric
company, like a 3rd world fiefdom, Larry swore he would NEVER sit in the
dark, ever again....

My neighbor has a 200' cord so he can reach my outside outlet. He never
complains when the generator noise auto-cranking up in the night wakes
him up. The lights here are never out more than about 10 seconds, now.

--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

Charlie Morgan wrote in news:jt3ff255jk8l7jfsl65skm07kavaed3nah@
4ax.com:

1) Epoxy is not really "glue"

2) The fiberglass tanks that are failing are not built with Epoxy

CWM


I'll bite....what ARE they made of, something cheaper?....

I can't imagine spending tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars on a boat
that doesn't have a REPLACEABLE gas tank.... Does that sound right?

I make gross errors, too. I bought a Sea Ray from Bayliner.....

--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

Charlie Morgan wrote in
:

So, you admit you are just making things up, and you really have no
idea what those gas tanks are made of. Nice, Larry.

CWM



Yes, I only know they are built CHEAPLY to maximize dealer and
manufacturer profits, of course, and are not easily removed for
replacement when they fail, rendering the entire boat at risk.

Do I need to know more than that, Charlie? I don't give a **** what they
are made of. They need to be made of metal, preferably Stainless Steel
in this salt water swamp environment, but that isn't going to happen when
the profit margin is at risk.

None of them are going to make a boat that LASTS much past the warranty
ending date. It's why America is driving Hondas, not Chevys. The GM car
in my yard is crap, all rusty inside its panels from not being painted,
with wiring that looks like some kid in a garage took cheap plastic wires
and wrapped them in cheap plastic tape from Harbor Freight. The engine
is the only place with a plastic wire wrap because that would melt before
the end of the warranty period. Boats are all the same...made to sell,
not to own. Any fool, even you, can look in the bilge and see that....
(c;

--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

Thanks Larry for the lecture. Most of what you say makes sense. I think the
best
preventative is to remove the fuel line from the engine and run the engine dry
after
every use. I was thinking about all the trouble of opening the carb drain plug,
but that would spill a lot of fuel in the water and is probably more work. So
all this stuff
about Stabil keeping the gas from breaking down is advertising hype?

Good Reply,

Sherwin D.

Larry wrote:

sherwindu wrote in
:

I have been reading lately that gasohol is bad for boat engines. It
deteriorates in 30 to 60 days, and I'm not sure products like Stabil
can control it. I personally have put
Stabil in my gas just after buying it, yet I have had to clean the
jets on my Yamaha
9.9T three times this season. I have two filters, one on the tank
line and one in the
engine, but they are not doing the job. Someone recommended going to
10 micron filters. I don't know what is inside the engine but my tank
filter is 40 microns. If the
gasohol truely breaks down this quickly, one would have to plan to
swap out the boat gas at frequent intervals. I'm also told the newer
tank lines are made of a material that is more resistant to the
gasohol problem. Right now, I don't have any
good solutions to this problem.



Wanna make it stop? Simply RUN THE ENGINE DRY every time you use it.

There's nothing in the gas clogging up the Yamaha. The gas in the float
bowl is simply evaporating leaving behind a brown coating of shellac on
everything, including the inside to the tiny jets that meter the fuel.
Switching to a 4-stroke outboard makes this problem MUCH worse because
there is no lube oil in the gas to keep the shellac soft and dissolvable
between uses, so it turns to hard shellac and clogs the carbs all up.

Take the time to unplug the gas tank from the motor and run it dry at the
dock, instead of just shutting it down and going anal retentive on deck
cleaning. The filters filter out particles. There aren't any, just gas.
It's the gas that's the problem, itself. A 1-micron filter isn't going
to cure it.

Stop wasting your time on the diesel-fuel-in-a-can products like Stabil.
It's useless.....here's why....

Gas never "goes bad". What?! You must be CRAZY! ALL gas "goes bad".

No, that's not true. Gas EVAPORATES and the lighter elements in the gas
that give it its octane power always evaporate first, leaving you with a
tank full of heavier elements and gas with very low octane
rating....still gas, but hard to fire with spark plugs.

Solution - NEVER leave a tank EMPTY, like every boat at the dock does all
the time, gas or diesel.

A half empty gas or diesel tank BREATHES, every 24 hours, a large volume
of vapor. As the sun rises, the tank pressurizes as the vapor pressure
increases with temperature. The vapor, loaded with those light elements
that make gas go great, are pumped out whatever vent there is throughout
the day. You notice a slight smell of fuel near the vent pipe. The sun
sets, the air cools, the relative humidity of the air goes to 100% and
coats everything it touches with dew. The tank cools, the vapor pressure
drops to less than the air pressure and sucks in a big volume of water-
saturated air all night at 100% humidity. The tank cools below the dew
point of this load of rain and water condenses on the exposed walls of
the tank, forming droplets whos weight exceed the capillary action of
them sticking to the walls. The droplets get bigger as gravity slides
them down into other droplets, forming drops. As they slide past the
level of the fuel, being heavier than fuel, the slide down under the fuel
to collect in the exact point the manufacturer put the pickup tube for
the engine....the lowest point. Eventually, later when it's too late,
the water will get deep enough, because under the fuel load it will NOT
evaporate again when the tank gets hot tomorrow, the pickup tube will
suck it up into the cheap gas filters without a water separator and it
will end up snuggled against the main jet in the bottom of the float bowl
of the engine, making it run like crap or refuse to start or stall out as
soon as you start it.

The other problem recreates it self every morning as this dastardly cycle
continues unabated every 24 hours....when the next load of vapors with
those light elements that make gas go get expelled, leaving behind gas on
its way to becoming that awful smelling shellac we call "bad gas".

Out in my storage shed, where the temperature goes to 10F in winter and
130F all summer, there sits a Honda EX5000 5KW generator. The feed tank
on the Honda is perfect...it's STEEL, not plastic. (More about plastic
in a second.) I bought this genset in 1989 just after 2 lawyers
advertised it when their power came back on after Hurricane Hugo, which
tore Charleston up awful. I've owned it ever since. Inside that steel
gas tank, in that awful hot storage shed, is about 2 gallons of the
cheapest regular gas available, from the cheapest station near home. The
tank is FULL to the point of overflowing. It cannot BREATHE as there is
no vapor space but a tiny bubble right under the cap. It has been that
way since 1989, always filled to the brim. I don't run the genset on
this tank. I have a fishtank air manifold, of brass, that lets me feed
the genset from a siphon hose, directly from my jerry cans, never having
to shut down the genset/let it cool/fill this tank/restart, which I think
is stupid. (You simply pinch the hose, remove it from jerry can A and
put it in jerry can B and let go the pinch and the siphon drop from the
jerry cans sitting on a little chair or other stand refills the carb,
continuously.) The gas in the tank is only used to fill the siphon hose
at the beginning of each use so I don't have to suck on it to get it
started. (Just lay the hose out under the tanks and open both manifold
valves until gas spurts out the hose, close the tank valve and insert the
hose into the first jerry can....simple.) So, I know the gas in the tank
is 1989 regular gas...no "stabilizer", no diesel-fuel-in-a-can for $8 a
pint. The generator bowl initially fills when you open these valves,
also from the 1989 gas in the tank, AND STARTS INSTANTLY EVERY TIME ON
THE FIRST OR SECOND PULL ON THE RECOIL STARTER.

So much for the "bad ol' gas" bull****. Simply KEEP THE TANK FULL SO IT
CANNOT BREATHE. Diesel doesn't evaporate like gas, being an oil, but
that water sliding down the walls from the half full diesel tank, every
boat at your marina has, causes diesel fuel to GROW ALGAE whos spores are
also SUCKED INTO THE HALF-FULL TANK. Algae cannot grow in diesel fuel
WITHOUT WATER to drink! If we fill the diesel tank, every time we use
it, no water will be ingested, no algae spores, either, and the algae
spores in the diesel fuel CANNOT live without water to drink...solving
that problem, too, without diesel-fuel-in-a-can agent orange at $8/pint.

A word about plastic tankage. IT SUCKS. The problem with polyethylene
is it's made from petroleum and its molecules are HUGE! In between the
huge molecules are spaces not big enough for gasoline to leak through,
BUT big enough for those little light molecules that give gas its high
octane kick to go through! Ever notice how a boat with a plastic gas
tank ALWAYS smells like there's a slight gas leak? There is! It's the
light molecules leaking through the cheap plastic tank! Those plastic
jerry cans also leak these molecules something awful because they're
thinner. Put a plastic jerry can full of gas to the top in your van and
drive it home. Even though it didn't leak a drop of gas around the
filler, your van smells like gas by the time you get home just awful. It
leaks that bad, that fast. NEVER store gas in a plastic jug over a week
or it will "go bad" leaking its light molecules into the surrounding air.
Anyone with a storage shed with a plastic gas tank in it full of gas
knows it always smells like gas. That's why....it's LEAKING! Plastic
boat tanks also suffer from this problem, but the storage time can
probably be extended to a month because the tanks are thicker walled,
reducing the molecular leakage some, and there's lots of gas in the tank
making lots more molecules available to be left over. DON'T STORE THE
BOAT WITH THE PLASTIC TANK WITH GAS IN IT. Run it as dry as you can get
it, drain the carb by running it dry, too, then put fresh gas in the
cheapass plastic tankage in the spring. You can't stop it from
leakage...unless you swap the crap tank for METAL.

A word on GASOHOL...or as we say in America now, "premium gas". (They're
using alcohol to increase the octane of regular gas and selling it for
premium because what we were using, tetraethyl lead, is forbidden,
now.)...

Alcohol attracts WATER like dropping a sponge into a bucketful. Of
course, here we are in the world wettest region of the planet....on
water. So, running high test gasohol or a real gasohol mix which is
worse, just fills your tank with water....it's OWN condensation problem.
There shouldn't be any questions from the class, so I'll close my lecture
on this note......(c;

Sorry.......(bell rings in hallway, students rush out for sex)
Larry

--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

sherwindu wrote in
:

Thanks Larry for the lecture. Most of what you say makes sense. I
think the best
preventative is to remove the fuel line from the engine and run the
engine dry after
every use. I was thinking about all the trouble of opening the carb
drain plug, but that would spill a lot of fuel in the water and is
probably more work. So all this stuff
about Stabil keeping the gas from breaking down is advertising hype?



Naw, not that much trouble. Just run it dry and when the engine starts
to balk, pull the choke to full and turn the tiller from side to side to
splash what's left in the bowl until it finally stalls from fuel
starvation. The tiny bit that's left won't clog it for years.

If you have a 4-stroke, I've tried a little TC-W3, maybe a cupful in 6
gallons, just a splash....and the Nissan 4-stroker quit cloggin the jets,
too. Cap'n Geoffrey really clogged it up before I figured out what is
going on.

It's unfortunate these little motors don't have DIAPHRAM carbs on them
like a jetski does. A diaphram carb has no float bowl and is sealed
where the gas is so there is no evaporation problem. Your weedeater or
chainsaw has them, too. Too bad they all have cheap plastic gas tanks
that leak.

--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.

Never saw this TC-W3 stuff. Is it the same as Sea Foam or Mercury's Quick
Clean?
Who sells it?

Larry wrote:

sherwindu wrote in
:

Thanks Larry for the lecture. Most of what you say makes sense. I
think the best
preventative is to remove the fuel line from the engine and run the
engine dry after
every use. I was thinking about all the trouble of opening the carb
drain plug, but that would spill a lot of fuel in the water and is
probably more work. So all this stuff
about Stabil keeping the gas from breaking down is advertising hype?



Naw, not that much trouble. Just run it dry and when the engine starts
to balk, pull the choke to full and turn the tiller from side to side to
splash what's left in the bowl until it finally stalls from fuel
starvation. The tiny bit that's left won't clog it for years.

If you have a 4-stroke, I've tried a little TC-W3, maybe a cupful in 6
gallons, just a splash....and the Nissan 4-stroker quit cloggin the jets,
too. Cap'n Geoffrey really clogged it up before I figured out what is
going on.

It's unfortunate these little motors don't have DIAPHRAM carbs on them
like a jetski does. A diaphram carb has no float bowl and is sealed
where the gas is so there is no evaporation problem. Your weedeater or
chainsaw has them, too. Too bad they all have cheap plastic gas tanks
that leak.

--
There's amazing intelligence in the Universe.
You can tell because none of them ever called Earth.