As a multihull owner interested in saving weight wherever possible I'd
appreciate hearing any insight, opinion, ideas or experience anyone has
with this.

The one concern I've heard from someone who had Kevlar shrouds and stays
on his racing boat's mast was that it was far easier to cut those lines,
resulting in catastrophic loss. I'm not sure how easily Kevlar cuts,
but I would think it is somewhat easier than steel wire.

The concern I'd have for using them as lifelines (as voiced by Gary) is
more about the possibility that the lines might UV degrade, making the
unnoticibly weaker. Given that I intend to couple my life lines with
netting, and also use jack lines and harness when out of the cockpit, I
think this minimizes the issue, but it is worth consideration.

Robb




Roger Long wrote:

I've heard or seen something somewhere about using some of the new super
low stretch rope for lifelines. Has anyone heard about that idea?

Gary wrote:

I have seen many different parts of a boats rigging being replaced with
new high modulus ropes. The multihull world is embracing rope because
of the weight savings. They are certainly strong enough and look good
but the are a couple issues that warrant thought. First of all is the
UV degredation. It is much greater in any rope than in wire and
requires more frequent replacement. The second thing is nicks. Wire
will stand some abuse but a nicked rope will be much weaker. I have
seen a couple boat lose their rigs because of nicks in rope backstays.
Finally the splices in the new ropes are much more challenging and many
require special splices to ensure the strength isn't lost.

It is doable but think about pros and cons first.

Gary

I bought my boat two years ago and it has all dacron life lines. I did
not do the installation and am not sure when it was done but I think
about a year before I bought. However, they seem to be holding up
fine. I can only vouch for two years.

One thing, sure is no stretch in it.

Howard

AMPowers wrote:
As a multihull owner interested in saving weight wherever possible I'd
appreciate hearing any insight, opinion, ideas or experience anyone has
with this.

The one concern I've heard from someone who had Kevlar shrouds and stays
on his racing boat's mast was that it was far easier to cut those lines,
resulting in catastrophic loss. I'm not sure how easily Kevlar cuts,
but I would think it is somewhat easier than steel wire.

The concern I'd have for using them as lifelines (as voiced by Gary) is
more about the possibility that the lines might UV degrade, making the
unnoticibly weaker. Given that I intend to couple my life lines with
netting, and also use jack lines and harness when out of the cockpit, I
think this minimizes the issue, but it is worth consideration.

Robb




Roger Long wrote:

I've heard or seen something somewhere about using some of the new super
low stretch rope for lifelines. Has anyone heard about that idea?

Gary wrote:

I have seen many different parts of a boats rigging being replaced with
new high modulus ropes. The multihull world is embracing rope because
of the weight savings. They are certainly strong enough and look good
but the are a couple issues that warrant thought. First of all is the
UV degredation. It is much greater in any rope than in wire and
requires more frequent replacement. The second thing is nicks. Wire
will stand some abuse but a nicked rope will be much weaker. I have
seen a couple boat lose their rigs because of nicks in rope backstays.
Finally the splices in the new ropes are much more challenging and many
require special splices to ensure the strength isn't lost.

It is doable but think about pros and cons first.

Gary

AMPowers wrote:
As a multihull owner interested in saving weight wherever possible I'd
appreciate hearing any insight, opinion, ideas or experience anyone has
with this.

The one concern I've heard from someone who had Kevlar shrouds and stays
on his racing boat's mast was that it was far easier to cut those lines,

Yes but ohw often have you gave a life line a whack with your knife?

The concern I'd have for using them as lifelines (as voiced by Gary) is
more about the possibility that the lines might UV degrade, making the
unnoticibly weaker.

That was my first thought also but. The first tiem I say Spectra was
on the back of 320' facatory trawler in the Bering Polock derby. It was
1988 and they had been using it fro a couple years. Its yankin up a
90MT bag of fish. I was impressse as was the deck boss.

IN the last 10 years I have noticed significant increas in the plaited
Amsteal for winch wire applications under 3/4". The grey color. This is
in the PNW drager and shrmip fleets. If those guys are using Amsteel
its got to be tuff and worth the price!


Gary wrote:
It is doable but think about pros and cons first.
Gary

I tend to watch the commercial docks. If thoes guys are using the stuff
its got to be reliable and cost effective. Most thess guys are also
using lots of galvanzed not SS for the same reason: it works good.

Standing rig I'll stay with SS but if its running Im using Samson or
New England plait low streach for getting the sails up and maybe even
life lines. If the companies are accurate, they have the UV root
problem solved.

Has any one penciled out the hardware cost diffrences between synthetic
and wire for llife lines??

My gut felling even if I ahve to replace the Amsteel life lines twice
for one SS installation the hardware splicing cost may be less for the
synthetic. Maybe?!?

Bob
PS Oh almost for got my usual cavet.......... stay away from the WM
type stores. Go to a cordage/industrial rigging/ wire rope place. Get
600' and have fun! Just emagine the savings DIY instead of paying some
rigger $65/hr for INSTALATION and paying FULL Retail for the line.

AMPowers wrote:
As a multihull owner interested in saving weight wherever possible I'd
appreciate hearing any insight, opinion, ideas or experience anyone has
with this.

The one concern I've heard from someone who had Kevlar shrouds and stays
on his racing boat's mast was that it was far easier to cut those lines,
resulting in catastrophic loss. I'm not sure how easily Kevlar cuts,
but I would think it is somewhat easier than steel wire.

The concern I'd have for using them as lifelines (as voiced by Gary) is
more about the possibility that the lines might UV degrade, making the
unnoticibly weaker. Given that I intend to couple my life lines with
netting, and also use jack lines and harness when out of the cockpit, I
think this minimizes the issue, but it is worth consideration.

Robb




Roger Long wrote:

I've heard or seen something somewhere about using some of the new super
low stretch rope for lifelines. Has anyone heard about that idea?

Gary wrote:

I have seen many different parts of a boats rigging being replaced with
new high modulus ropes. The multihull world is embracing rope because
of the weight savings. They are certainly strong enough and look good
but the are a couple issues that warrant thought. First of all is the
UV degredation. It is much greater in any rope than in wire and
requires more frequent replacement. The second thing is nicks. Wire
will stand some abuse but a nicked rope will be much weaker. I have
seen a couple boat lose their rigs because of nicks in rope backstays.
Finally the splices in the new ropes are much more challenging and many
require special splices to ensure the strength isn't lost.

It is doable but think about pros and cons first.

Gary
I think someone has already mentioned it but here in the PNW the PIYA
(Pacific International Yachting Association) rules for racing do not
allow synthetic lifelines. Most races here use those rule as
guidelines. Before you install synthetic lifelines would check your
local rules if you race.

I wonder if insurance companies have any thoughts on lifelines?

As far as standing rigging is concerned, I have seen a couple "turbo'd"
boats lose the top of their mast when flying masthead kites supported by
synthetic backstays that parted. Casseopia lost hers on the last
Van-Isle 360. Quite a mess. I think that running backs,inner stays and
sails with built in lufflines (staysails, screechers, windseekers, code
zeros) are well suited to synthetic rope luffs but I would prefer all my
core rig to be wire.

Gary

AMPowers wrote:
The concern I'd have for using them as lifelines (as voiced by Gary) is
more about the possibility that the lines might UV degrade, making the
unnoticibly weaker. Given that I intend to couple my life lines with
netting, and also use jack lines and harness when out of the cockpit, I
think this minimizes the issue, but it is worth consideration.


From Samson Rope

AMSTEEL
A 12-Strand braided rope using Dyneema® fiber with our proprietary
Samthane urethane coating. AmSteel is a non-rotational rope that yields
extremely high strength and low stretch; equivalent to wire rope with
only 1/7 the weight. In addition, the product is flexible, spliceable,
and resists flex-fatigue and abrasion. Standard color: gray. *Size
7/64" changes from 12-strand to 8-strand construction.

Non-rotational
Excellent wear characteristics
Spliceable, easily inspected

APPLICATIONS
Competition Grade Running Rigging
Kite/Wakeboard/Waterski Lines
Trawl and Bridle Lines
Wire Replacement - Non Jacketed
High Performance Tug Lines
Pulling and Stringing Lines
Rodeo/Rigging/Utility
Low Stretch Support Lines (Wire Replacement)

Horizontal Lifelines

Wire Replacement Ropes


· Specific Gravity...
0.98
Humm, it sinks.

· Elastic Elongation...
At % break strength:
10% 0.46%
20% 0.7%
30% 0.96%


I like the part about horizonal life lines and used to replace
wire..................
Bob

"· Specific Gravity...
0.98
Humm, it sinks."

Hummmm: 1.0 it just floats in pure H2O, should float well in lake water
and float great in sea water.

I have had Technora with Samthane coating (light spinnaker sheets from a
hobbie cat) as boot laces in my fire boots for 4 years now. Lots of
abraision, dirt, sun light and tight turns. They are still in great shape.
-Allen

bushman wrote:

Hummmm: 1.0 it just floats in pure H2O, should float well in lake water
and float great in sea water.

I have had Technora.......... as boot laces in my fire boots for 4
years now.

NO way....?? PHW fire fighter?? Greyback? Hotshots, USFS?? Were you on
the Biscuit?

Back to boats...

Lots of
abraision, dirt, sun light and tight turns. They are still in great shape.
-Allen

Allen, I've been hoping people here and on the yachat docks would think
outside the "marine" world when shopping. This is a perfect example of
somone sizing up a material and giving it a try. Damn that suff must be
pretty good to last on your boots. Sounds like a testimonal from a
commercial. Ya know, "if its tought enough down here... (tight shot to
boots) its tough enough out there." (shot of boat taking a good slap on
the FWD quater of your boat)

For the I dont think synthetic line is UV - Chaffe resistant enough I
propose a new thread:
PVC COVERING FOR SYNTHETIC LIFE LINES.

Allen, thanks for info.
Bob

bushman wrote:
"· Specific Gravity...
0.98
Humm, it sinks."

Hummmm: 1.0 it just floats in pure H2O, should float well in lake water
and float great in sea water.


Oh, and thanks for catching my brain scramble and lousy editing with my
boyance/density calculations.

I agree. Stuff that weighs water (1.0) usually floats...... Duh!

Good eye.

Too much time on the beach this week. Time to go rebed the rest of my
deck.
Bob

I'm thinking of installing rope lifelines. Any ideas on how to do it?
I've seen splices, knots and so forth. What about boarding gates? I just
do coastal cruising; not offshore work.

Thanks,

George