Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

The other side of my slip was just rented and I now don't have AC
power because the powerboat next to me has two shore power cords
plugged in. I spoke to the marina weeks ago and they assured me they
would take care of it because he's only paying for one outlet. Either
they didn't or he's not listening. The boat has been dark with no
sign of activity for nearly a month now.

Before I just unplug one of his cords, which appears to be the only
path to resolution, I'd appreciate knowing how these dual systems are
usually set up. Is there a split bus so that some things on the boat
will stop working or will he just have less amperage available?
Although I'll unplug him at the boat as well, I'd like to know for
general curiosity whether there is any back feed from the unused inlet
plug.

Is there any possible harm (other than a testosterone fueled territory
incident) from simply coiling up one of these cords with a nice note
that there are only so many plugs?

--

Roger Long

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Roger Long" wrote in news:TRowg.3951$1Z5.1739
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

Although I'll unplug him at the boat as well, I'd like to know for
general curiosity whether there is any back feed from the unused inlet
plug.

Is there any possible harm (other than a testosterone fueled territory
incident) from simply coiling up one of these cords with a nice note
that there are only so many plugs?


Most boats, here at least, with two cables have one powering the boat's
original power panel and the other powering the air conditioner,
separately. This is done so you can sidle up to a dock that only has 30A
outlets for your 60A load. 30A not being enough to run the fridge, hot
water tank and still have enough left to crank the unforgiving cheap marine
air conditioner's cheap compressor noone thought to put an easy-start kit
into. Unplugging one of them simply spoils all the food left in the
fridge. Unplugging the other one stops the air conditioner and leaves the
boat smelling like a swamp from the amazingly complex biologicals growing
in the bilge water...(c;



--
When you come up to the checkout, ask someone if they saw
the INS agents carrying off 3 people from the store...
See how many illegals you can get to abandon their carts...
moving YOU up in line....(c;

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

You may be neigborgh for a short time or a long and bad time.

In my opinion the on us is on the marina management. They have accepted a
fee for the slip and electrical power supply. In return they have an
obligation to deliver. They have to take all necessary action to meet their
contractual obligations. Normally the club or marina makes sure that the
boat owner has pay for the electrical hook up and ensures that it will not
overload their distribution system.

Did you talk to the owner of the power boat. Even if it cost you a long
distance you should first talk to the owner.

Some people have ice making machine on board and other equipment running.
When they get back to their boat they expect to have ice for their drinks.
The power boat culture is not like the sailboat society. They can rock your
sailboat with a big wake and wave their hands at you with a smile


"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
The other side of my slip was just rented and I now don't have AC power
because the powerboat next to me has two shore power cords plugged in. I
spoke to the marina weeks ago and they assured me they would take care of
it because he's only paying for one outlet. Either they didn't or he's
not listening. The boat has been dark with no sign of activity for nearly
a month now.

Before I just unplug one of his cords, which appears to be the only path
to resolution, I'd appreciate knowing how these dual systems are usually
set up. Is there a split bus so that some things on the boat will stop
working or will he just have less amperage available? Although I'll unplug
him at the boat as well, I'd like to know for general curiosity whether
there is any back feed from the unused inlet plug.

Is there any possible harm (other than a testosterone fueled territory
incident) from simply coiling up one of these cords with a nice note that
there are only so many plugs?

--

Roger Long

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Gezie gee chrisis gehosephat, Batman!

I thought I'd do this guy the favor of checking out "Y" adapters so I
can tell him just what to buy.

FOUR HUNDRED BUCKS! What in the name of all that's crazy is Marinco
thinking.

--

Roger Long

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 12:28:35 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

The other side of my slip was just rented and I now don't have AC
power because the powerboat next to me has two shore power cords
plugged in. I spoke to the marina weeks ago and they assured me they
would take care of it because he's only paying for one outlet. Either
they didn't or he's not listening. The boat has been dark with no
sign of activity for nearly a month now.

Before I just unplug one of his cords, which appears to be the only
path to resolution, I'd appreciate knowing how these dual systems are
usually set up. Is there a split bus so that some things on the boat
will stop working or will he just have less amperage available?
Although I'll unplug him at the boat as well, I'd like to know for
general curiosity whether there is any back feed from the unused inlet
plug.

According to the ABYC standards, there should be no electrical
connection between his two power inlets.


--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Peter Bennett" wrote

According to the ABYC standards, there should be no electrical
connection between his two power inlets.

My BlueSea dual 30A AC panel has slides that prevent combining the busses if
both source breakers are on. A Y adapter does essentially the same thing.
The current is split between two conductors but there is only one source
from dock side. The risk is that if he is running his A/C, refer, battery
charger and water heater at the same time the dock pedestal breaker is going
to blow.

I agree though that this is the marina operator's problem and somebody needs
to stay on him until he resolves it.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote

The risk is that if he is running his A/C, refer, battery charger
and water heater at the same time the dock pedestal breaker is going
to blow.

As near as I can tell, he isn't running anything; certainly not the
engines. The boat's just been sitting there dark for weeks.


I agree though that this is the marina operator's problem and
somebody needs to stay on him until he resolves it.

Not bliddy likely in this place.

I found some open sockets on the other side of him and just moved one
of his cords to one after making sure the outlet was live (not
something you take for granted in our marina).

I want power available when I need it for tools, the occasional hot
shower, or a big dishwashing after a daysail. I don't like to leave
my boat plugged in all the time because I don't see any reason to pump
any ground leakage (probably inevitable in this place) through my
metal parts when I'm not using the power.

I guess I've got to reserve a plug in this environment. I've got a
marine to standard household adapter that I use to plug a line tester
cube into for checking outlets before I plug in. I put my name and
the boat's name on it and left it in the outlet with breaker turned
off. We'll see if that works.

--

Roger Long

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Roger Long" wrote in news:0Nqwg.777$uH6.583
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

FOUR HUNDRED BUCKS! What in the name of all that's crazy is Marinco
thinking.



Marinco's thinking if he can afford the boat, he won't mind them stealing
$400.

If you think that's bad, stop by Home Depot and price some WIRE! I have a
church waiting to repair the 8-pair #14 speaker wires the rats I told them
8 times over the past 3 years to get out of the attic. 100' of 8-pair #14
wire is now costing me OVER $400 in a plain grey plastic sheath. I'm
putting the next cable inside blue poly flex to keep the rats eating the
church wiring away from it.

Hope I get it installed before the rats burn the church down chewing on the
AC wiring!

My pleas for pest management fell on deaf ears.....again.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Thou shalt not kill...

(except maybe the firemen the roof falls on while they're trying to
put the fire out)

--

Roger Long



"Larry" wrote

Hope I get it installed before the rats burn the church down chewing
on the
AC wiring!

My pleas for pest management fell on deaf ears.....again.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

The power boat culture is not like the sailboat society. They can rock
your
sailboat with a big wake and wave their hands at you with a smile

Or just blindly tack directly in front of another vessel and then whine
about "right of way" having not taken at least the slightest look around
first.

There's enough idiocy around without the stereotypes, no?

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Some shore power connections are labelled. Look for one labelled 'air
conditioning' and disconnect that one. A good percentage of the time the
refrigerator, freezer or icemaker won't be on the same circuit as the A/C.
If you're inclined to check it'd certainly be polite to avoid disconnecting
the one that lets food in the fridge to go rotten. But most units are
designed to run both off AC and 12v and there's no way to tell which is
being used. So it won't do a lot of good to disconnect one of the lines and
then look in the fridge as it'll cut over from AC to 12v and keep right on
running. Wearing down the battery along the way, of course and then you're
putting the bilge pump operations at risk.

If it's got a label I'd just disconnect the one for the AC. I'm not sure
I'd go leaving notes about it.

-Bill Kearney

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

The power boat culture is not like the sailboat society. They can rock
your
sailboat with a big wake and wave their hands at you with a smile


Bill Kearney wrote:
Or just blindly tack directly in front of another vessel and then whine
about "right of way" having not taken at least the slightest look around
first.


Why attribute "tacking in front of another vessel" to
blindness? Could it be a windshift, shoaling water, engaged
in racing?

If you had a clue, you wouldn't think that sailboats "tack
blindly" or at random, much less think they were under any
obligation to keep clear of motor vessels.

There's enough idiocy around without the stereotypes, no?


Then why be such an idiot? You only perpetuate the
stereotype of motorboaters.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
The power boat culture is not like the sailboat society. They can rock
your
sailboat with a big wake and wave their hands at you with a smile


Bill Kearney wrote:
Or just blindly tack directly in front of another vessel and then whine
about "right of way" having not taken at least the slightest look around
first.




Why attribute "tacking in front of another vessel" to blindness? Could it
be a windshift, shoaling water, engaged in racing?

Neither windshift or racing afford a sailboat any special privleges under
the rules.


If you had a clue, you wouldn't think that sailboats "tack blindly" or at
random, much less think they were under any obligation to keep clear of
motor vessels.

Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power" concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

And mostly incorrect.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the rules???

Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything. Do you think a sailboat
is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a powerboat (maybe just
ideling along)? Try actually reading the rules and you will see that there
are many other situations where sailboats must giveway to power vessels.

FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10 years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for 10 years.

I have no need to whine, I know the rules.

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the rules???

Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything. Do you think a sailboat
is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a powerboat (maybe just
ideling along)? Try actually reading the rules and you will see that there
are many other situations where sailboats must giveway to power vessels.

FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10 years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for 10 years.



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And mostly incorrect.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:03:36 -0400, "Gerald"
wrote:

I have no need to whine, I know the rules.

Pay no attention to Scotty. He seems to have OD'd on knee jerk
reactions. I'm sure we'll meet up with him some day after he tacks in
front of a powerboat in a narrow channel while he's motor sailing.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Why attribute "tacking in front of another vessel" to
blindness? Could it be a windshift, shoaling water, engaged
in racing?

Ok, quote the rules, from the federal regs, that clearly state those reasons
justify making a sudden turn into the path of another vessel, without giving
any sort of audible sign.

If you had a clue, you wouldn't think that sailboats "tack
blindly" or at random, much less think they were under any
obligation to keep clear of motor vessels.

Why is it ragbaggers always want to jump in assuming they somehow know
better? Just as often they're completely incorrect, not only about the
rules but also the level of knowledge about the other people posting.

There's enough idiocy around without the stereotypes, no?

Then why be such an idiot? You only perpetuate the
stereotype of motorboaters.

You often nothing here other than insults, my how typical.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Wayne.B" wrote

I have no need to know the rules.

Pay no attention to Scotty. He seems to have OD'd on knee
jerk
reactions. I'm sure we'll meet up with him some day

and wake him.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Gerald" whined
What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the
rules???

Somewhat.



Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything.

There is no ''RoW.

Do you think a sailboat
is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a
powerboat (maybe just
ideling along)?

Did I say that?


Try actually reading the rules and you will see that there
are many other situations where sailboats must giveway to
power vessels.

No ****, genious!



FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10
years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for
10 years.


And you still whine about RoW rules?


I have no need to know the rules.

Typical powerboater.



--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Wayne.B" whined

I have no need to know the rules.

Pay no attention to Scotty. He seems to have OD'd on knee
jerk
reactions.

Nope, just an opinion after several decades of sailing, and
putting up with idiot stinkpotters.

SBV

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Lars Kristensen" wrote i

If the powerboats kept well clear of the sailboat there
wouldn't be any
issue here, right? ;-)


But it's so hard to turn that wheel ( according to Wayne).

SBV

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Wayne.B" whined

I have no need to know the rules.

Pay no attention to Scotty. He seems to have OD'd on knee
jerk
reactions.

Nope, just an opinion after several decades of sailing, and
putting up with idiot stinkpotters.

SBV


I am sure that many "stinkpotters" with similar experiences would come to
the same conclusions about sailors. I know and encounter many competent
skippers of sail and power vessels. Like you, I also encounter many
skippers who seem to have a different understanding of how the world works.
There are --- unquestionably --- many stinkpotters out there who are fairly
clueless. There is also an equivalent number of sailor with similar boating
aptitude. Knowing how to sail does not, in itself, confer any Nav Rule
knowledge, common sense or courtesy. It is human nature for us to focus on
and remember those who "rock our boat" and not on those who do not..

One of my favorite "arghhh" situations is when there is a small / medium
size sportfish trying to get past a line of sail / full displacement power
(I was a full displacement trawler(er) and operated at speeds similar to
sailboats). The "not so understanding" slowboat skippers ask the sportfish
to give them a slow pass and then do not slow down themselves. Obviously,
the sportfish needs to pass at a few knots faster than the sailboat if the
pass is ever going to complete. This frequently puts them in the speed zone
where they are generating their maximum wake. If I am the only boat being
passed, I would always request that they keep it up on a plane --- I get
much less wake --- they get to keep moving --- life is good.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
...

"Gerald" whined
What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the
rules???

Somewhat.

I guess 'somewhat' is better than "what rules?". It would be useful for me
to know which rules you do an which ones you don't know so I know how to
deal with you on the waterways. I kind of thought "know the rules?" was
more of a YES / NO kind of question.



Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything.

There is no ''RoW.

Actually there is a Right of Way provision in the rules. This must be one
of the rules you don't know.

Do you think a sailboat
is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a
powerboat (maybe just
ideling along)?

Did I say that?

No. Just testing to see if you were aware of one of the many situations
where sailors (who don't actually KNOW the rules) may not be aware that they
are the give way vessel. This is most commonly misunderstood rules on the
part of many snowbird sailors traveling the ICW.


Try actually reading the rules and you will see that there
are many other situations where sailboats must giveway to
power vessels.

No ****, genious!

Not a genious. I just KNOW the rules ---- not just 'somewhat' know them ---
whatever the **** that means.




FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10
years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for
10 years.


And you still whine about RoW rules?

I never while about the rules. I know the rules.



I have no need to know the rules.

The above was not in any of my posts. You changed my original post from "I
have no need to whine, I know the rules." to the above.

Typical powerboater.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:04:08 +0200, Lars Kristensen
wrote:

If the powerboats kept well clear of the sailboat

There is no requirement for anyone to keep "well clear".

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 07:03:36 -0400, "Gerald"
wrote:

I have no need to whine, I know the rules.

Pay no attention to Scotty. He seems to have OD'd on knee jerk
reactions. I'm sure we'll meet up with him some day after he tacks in
front of a powerboat in a narrow channel while he's motor sailing.


No doubt. On of my on water survival rules is to expect that the other guy
doesn't know the rules and be prepared to act accordingly. Frequently they
do know the rules an life goes on with no hiccups. Too frequently they do
not know the rules .... as I feared ... and I do what I need to do to
insure that life goes on with no hiccups. Scotty seems to be typical of
many of the good folks out there --- out enjoying the wonderfull world of
boating without benifit of too much knowledge in areas some of us think is
important. Somehow we all manage to get back to our slips in one piece.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:04:08 +0200, Lars Kristensen

wrote:

If the powerboats kept well clear of the sailboat

There is no requirement for anyone to keep "well clear".


Sad state of affairs when we NEED a requirement to replace
common sense.

Safe boating is no accident!

Scotty

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Gerald" wrote

Scotty seems to be typical of
many of the good folks out there

Thank you.

Scotty

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:04:08 +0200, Lars Kristensen

wrote:

If the powerboats kept well clear of the sailboat

There is no requirement for anyone to keep "well clear".


Sad state of affairs when we NEED a requirement to replace
common sense.

Safe boating is no accident!

I see your bumber sticker and raise you one ...
"There ain't nothing common about common sense"


Scotty

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Gerald, Gerald. Firstly, there's no such thing as the "right of way" in the
colregs.

Secondly, as I said, "mostly incorrect." Of course, there are situations
when the sailboat must give way. You cited one of them. However, most of the
time, with sail over power, the sailboat is stand on. Besides situations
where there are commercial fishing boat engaged in fishing, tankers with
restricted maneuverability and the like, other vessels must give way.

Sounds to me like you need to review the colregs. Perhaps it's been a while.
Look at Rule 18 and go from there.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the rules???

Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything. Do you think a
sailboat is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a powerboat
(maybe just ideling along)? Try actually reading the rules and you will
see that there are many other situations where sailboats must giveway to
power vessels.

FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10 years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for 10 years.



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And mostly incorrect.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

No there isn't. Please cite that rule for us.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Actually there is a Right of Way provision in the rules. This must be one
of the rules you don't know.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Rule 16.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 14:04:08 +0200, Lars Kristensen
wrote:

If the powerboats kept well clear of the sailboat

There is no requirement for anyone to keep "well clear".

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Gerald, Gerald. Firstly, there's no such thing as the "right of way" in
the colregs.

Sorry Capt. you are wrong. Please check Rule 9 para(a) (iii) and you will
see the one place where Right-of-way does exist.

Secondly, as I said, "mostly incorrect." Of course, there are situations
when the sailboat must give way. You cited one of them.

Surely you don't want me to continue listing the situations where a sailing
vessle must give way to power driven vessels( and no, I am not including
RAMs, NUCs, fishing, etc.) If you actually are a USCG Licensed Master then I
am confident that you are immediatly aware of others.

However, most of the time, with sail over power, the sailboat is stand on.

True enough that in most day to day situations the sailing, fishing, RAM,
NUC hierarchy applys. Its the exceptions and various special cases that I am
addressing: They exist. There are several of them.

Even with the excpetions, one must understand the obligations of a stand on
vessel. The stand on vessel is REQUIRED to maintain her course and
speed --- not tack into the path of another vessel and expect get the good
old 'sail over power' stuff.

Besides situations where there are commercial fishing boat engaged in
fishing, tankers with restricted maneuverability and the like, other
vessels must give way.

Sounds to me like you need to review the colregs. Perhaps it's been a
while. Look at Rule 18 and go from there.

Sorry Capt. I know them cold. If you don't have a copy to check out the
right of way paragraph, you can find a copy on the USCG web site.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the rules???

Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything. Do you think a
sailboat is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a powerboat
(maybe just ideling along)? Try actually reading the rules and you will
see that there are many other situations where sailboats must giveway to
power vessels.

FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10 years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for 10 years.



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And mostly incorrect.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Rule 9 para(a) (iii)


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
No there isn't. Please cite that rule for us.

--
"j" ganz @@
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"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Actually there is a Right of Way provision in the rules. This must be
one of the rules you don't know.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Well, we're both half right... see the explanation of right-of-way:

The International Navigation Rules do not confer upon any vessel the right
of way however, certain vessels in sight of each other are responsible to
keep out of the way of others. Usually, power-driven vessels are to keep out
of the way of a vessel not under command or restricted in her ability to
maneuver, sailing vessels or a vessel engaged in fishing. However, some
exceptions exist when they themselves are not in command or restricted in
her ability to maneuver (Rule 18), overtaking another vessel (Rule 13), are
navigating a narrow channel or fairway (Rule 9), and other less explicit
circumstances.

Surely, you don't actually believe "sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are
more numerous," since this is clearly wrong. Feel free to make a
comprehensive list and get back to us.

I have no problem with this:

Even with the excpetions, one must understand the obligations of a stand
on vessel. The stand on vessel is REQUIRED to maintain her course and
speed --- not tack into the path of another vessel and expect get the good
old 'sail over power' stuff.

And, I suggest that you obviously don't know them "cold," since you
misquoted the "right-of-way" language.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/mwv_FAQ/right_of_way.htm

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Gerald, Gerald. Firstly, there's no such thing as the "right of way" in
the colregs.

Sorry Capt. you are wrong. Please check Rule 9 para(a) (iii) and you will
see the one place where Right-of-way does exist.

Secondly, as I said, "mostly incorrect." Of course, there are situations
when the sailboat must give way. You cited one of them.

Surely you don't want me to continue listing the situations where a
sailing vessle must give way to power driven vessels( and no, I am not
including RAMs, NUCs, fishing, etc.) If you actually are a USCG Licensed
Master then I am confident that you are immediatly aware of others.

However, most of the time, with sail over power, the sailboat is stand
on.

True enough that in most day to day situations the sailing, fishing, RAM,
NUC hierarchy applys. Its the exceptions and various special cases that I
am addressing: They exist. There are several of them.

Even with the excpetions, one must understand the obligations of a stand
on vessel. The stand on vessel is REQUIRED to maintain her course and
speed --- not tack into the path of another vessel and expect get the good
old 'sail over power' stuff.

Besides situations where there are commercial fishing boat engaged in
fishing, tankers with restricted maneuverability and the like, other
vessels must give way.

Sounds to me like you need to review the colregs. Perhaps it's been a
while. Look at Rule 18 and go from there.

Sorry Capt. I know them cold. If you don't have a copy to check out the
right of way paragraph, you can find a copy on the USCG web site.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the rules???

Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything. Do you think a
sailboat is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a powerboat
(maybe just ideling along)? Try actually reading the rules and you will
see that there are many other situations where sailboats must giveway to
power vessels.

FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10 years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for 10 years.



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And mostly incorrect.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

Except:

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/mwv_FAQ/right_of_way.htm

I guess you need a refresher.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Rule 9 para(a) (iii)


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
No there isn't. Please cite that rule for us.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
Actually there is a Right of Way provision in the rules. This must be
one of the rules you don't know.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Gerald" wrote in
Somewhat.

Not a genious. I just KNOW the rules ---- not just
'somewhat' know them ---
whatever the **** that means.


it means that I'm not a big pompous ass who claims to know
ALL the rules.


SV




I never while about the rules. I know the rules.

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Gerald" wrote in

I have no need to know the rules.

Pay no attention to Scotty. He seems to have OD'd on
knee
jerk
reactions.

Nope, just an opinion after several decades of sailing,
and
putting up with idiot stinkpotters.

SBV


I am sure that many "stinkpotters" with similar
experiences would come to
the same conclusions

Yes, I've seen stinkpotters act rude to their own kind.

SV

Dual Shore Power hook up question
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, we're both half right... see the explanation of right-of-way:

The International Navigation Rules do not confer upon any vessel the right
of way

true ... see below

however, certain vessels in sight of each other are responsible to keep out
of the way of others. Usually, power-driven vessels are to keep out of the
way of a vessel not under command or restricted in her ability to maneuver,
sailing vessels or a vessel engaged in fishing. However, some exceptions
exist when they themselves are not in command or restricted in her ability
to maneuver (Rule 18), overtaking another vessel (Rule 13), are navigating
a narrow channel or fairway (Rule 9), and other less explicit
circumstances.

Surely, you don't actually believe "sailboat may be the Give Way vessel
are more numerous," since this is clearly wrong. Feel free to make a
comprehensive list and get back to us.

My silly point was that there are more rules in the books that say something
to the effect that a sailboat must act in a give-way manner than there are
rules that say they are stand on.

Rules that give Sailboats "stand on" obligations
INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 18 (b)

Rules that either give sailboats "giveway" obligations or provide
obligations that are different than 18(b) above:
INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 9 (b)
INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 9 (d)
INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 10 (j)
INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 13 (a)

INTERNATIONAL and INLAND 19 treats all vessles as equals -- no special
treatment for vessels under sail.

To name just 5


I have no problem with this:

Even with the excpetions, one must understand the obligations of a stand
on vessel. The stand on vessel is REQUIRED to maintain her course and
speed --- not tack into the path of another vessel and expect get the
good old 'sail over power' stuff.

And, I suggest that you obviously don't know them "cold," since you
misquoted the "right-of-way" language.

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/mwv_FAQ/right_of_way.htm

Again, sorry but...

Extracted directly from the INLAND rules...
Rule 9 (a)..

"(ii) Notwithstanding paragraph (a)(i) and Rule 14(a), a power-driven
vessel operating in narrow channels or fairways on the Great Lakes, Western
Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and proceeding downbound with
a following current shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel,
shall propose the manner and place of passage, and shall initiate the
maneuvering signals prescribed by Rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate. The vessel
proceeding upbound against the current shall hold as necessary to permit
safe passing."


There is a difference between the INTERNATIONAL and INLAND rules in this
case. International rules do not have this provision. My statement that
there is a Right-of-Way rule in the books applied to the INLAND rules, not
the INTERNATIONAL rules.

I know them cold...


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Gerald, Gerald. Firstly, there's no such thing as the "right of way" in
the colregs.

Sorry Capt. you are wrong. Please check Rule 9 para(a) (iii) and you
will see the one place where Right-of-way does exist.

Secondly, as I said, "mostly incorrect." Of course, there are situations
when the sailboat must give way. You cited one of them.

Surely you don't want me to continue listing the situations where a
sailing vessle must give way to power driven vessels( and no, I am not
including RAMs, NUCs, fishing, etc.) If you actually are a USCG Licensed
Master then I am confident that you are immediatly aware of others.

However, most of the time, with sail over power, the sailboat is stand
on.

True enough that in most day to day situations the sailing, fishing, RAM,
NUC hierarchy applys. Its the exceptions and various special cases that I
am addressing: They exist. There are several of them.

Even with the excpetions, one must understand the obligations of a stand
on vessel. The stand on vessel is REQUIRED to maintain her course and
speed --- not tack into the path of another vessel and expect get the
good old 'sail over power' stuff.

Besides situations where there are commercial fishing boat engaged in
fishing, tankers with restricted maneuverability and the like, other
vessels must give way.

Sounds to me like you need to review the colregs. Perhaps it's been a
while. Look at Rule 18 and go from there.

Sorry Capt. I know them cold. If you don't have a copy to check out the
right of way paragraph, you can find a copy on the USCG web site.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gerald" wrote in message
...
What is it that you disagree with? Do you know the rules???

Sail boats DO NOT have right of way over anything. Do you think a
sailboat is other than the giveway vessle when overtaking a powerboat
(maybe just ideling along)? Try actually reading the rules and you
will see that there are many other situations where sailboats must
giveway to power vessels.

FWIW -- I have over 50 years of sail experience and 10 years of power
experience. I have held 100ton ofshore masters license for 10 years.



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And mostly incorrect.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
...
Just another idiot powerboater whine.....


"Gerald" wrote in message
Many sailors think they always have "right-of-way" over
powerboats. The
rules DO discuss a few situations where sailboats are the
Stand On Vessel.
While these few cases are probably the most common
situations most people
deal with on a day-to-basis - mostly crossing --- the
situations in the
rules where a sailboat may be the Give Way vessel are more
numerous. Many
sailors seem to operate onder the "Sail over Power"
concept that does not (I
don't think ever did) exist. Sailboats are frequently
under obligation to
stay clear of motor vessels.