In article ,
says...
Gogarty wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 06:06:49 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

I used to say that I didn't need an electric windlass.
Then I bought a boat that has one. I LOVE this machine!
I will never not have one.

I agree.

Likewise. My back is eternally grateful. Don't know where Rosalie
anchors but we have had to reset several times in the same evening. With
the elecxtric windlass it's a breeze. With no windlass it doesn't get
done and with a manual it might get done once.

We anchor in the Chesapeake, the ICW and Bahamas. These are mostly
mud or sand with occasional rocky or scoured bottoms which we try to
avoid by going to a marina. Usually the anchorages are shallow,
unlike I understand that it is in New England, England or the NW US.

I would wonder (not to be mean, but...) about your anchoring technique
or your ability to pick a place to anchor if you have to reset several
times in one evening.

The only time I really remember that we had to reset the anchor was
once in a scoured rock bottom in Florida Bay where we stopped for
lunch and discovered a crab pot buoy blowing past us.

We might have had to reset (but did not because the wind was not
blowing hard) when we anchored where there was a lot of rock north of
Rodriguez Key. I think we had to reset on initial anchoring in St.
Augustine once, and in the Keys a couple of times in one day near
Little Palm Island. In the latter instance, we tried a couple of
places until finally a guy rowed over and told us where good holding
was.

In no instance were we pushed for time. We didn't have to rush. And
if we were re-anchoring, Bob didn't have to actually pick the anchor
up and stow it - he leaves it on a short chain. He doesn't have back
problems just working the handle back and forth. It's hard for me to
do that because I'm not as fit and my arms aren't as strong, but it's
not a problem for my back either, and I DO have back problems.

Usually Bob does the anchoring part and I do the steering part.


In the NW, my anchor resetting experiences have occurred most often
when the bottom was covered with thick eelgrass. The smallish Danforth
on the charter boat just didn't want to hold when the wind changed.

I've also had to reset in aan anchorage when the tide dropped
about 15 feet and a large rock became uncomfortably visible
off the stern. It wasn't visible in 25 feet of water, but showed
up nicely in 10 feet of water.

Mark Borgerson

It takes little or no skill to 'even circumnavigate' with that stuff.

If you think that, then you're certainly not a sailor!



Do an internet search and you'll find a gaziilion couples who have
sailed around the world as a life-long ambition. Many of them had
never been on a cruising boat prior to their big, three-year
adventure. Then they create websites relaying their daring
achievements to the folks back home, and dispensing advice. Many of
these trips amount to nothing but three-year shake-down cruises,
afterwhich they no longer want their boats, and declare them to be for
sale.

Look at the photos. There they are playing card below while the boat
runs on autopilot. Don't worry - the C.A.R.D. system will keep
everyone safe - and the beer - it's all nice and cold. And if they
have to anchor, boing...plonk. No problemo! Worried about the weather?
Well;;, here comes another weatherfax, so who needs that barometer
thingy. Need to poop? Don'y worry, cuz we got the latest vacuum
flusher and special TP too! Want to watch a movie or cool off? Just
flip on that generator, bro.

In addition, although their names escape me, there have been a number
of inexperienced sailors who have circumnavigated. Modern technology
makes it possible for anyone to do it. In fact, right now there are a
group of blind sailors doing it. That's right - blind.

She or he has a point. People who use all the "stuff" never really
become sailors. They may think they're sailors, but they would

Sorry Russkie, that is crap. I know where you are coming from but you
ignore the possibility that maybe we are people who have been
sailing/boating all our lives and now prefer to have machines do more of
the work for us. I don't consider hauling 100ft of chain road up by hand
to be "sailing".

My first trip with this boat was delivering it back home a few days
before Xmas. Was about 30-ish degs during the day and a 2 day trip. I
was alone, all my friends had bugged out. Came into a cove for shelter
from a stiff NW wind just as the sun was disappearing. with "auto"
steering slow ahead I went fwd and prepped the anchor (45lb Danforth
plow). Back in the cockpit I put the engine n neutral and pushed a
button on the windlass remote. It was so sweet seeing those yards of
chain roll out. I let enough out for 2:1 and reversed the prop to snug
it in, then let a full 120 ft out. During the night I do not know how
cold it got outside. But inside I could hear the wind and even with my
12000btu propane heater the cabin was 37 degs in the morning. Once up I
bundled in many layers of clothing, started the engine, and want fwd.
Again I held the remote and pushed a button. It was such pleasure to
watch foot after foot of chain rode come up out of the frigid water,
across the bow roller, through the windlass and on down inside. When the
anchor came up I released the button, pulled the last foot or so and
secured the anchor. Then I went back to the cockpit, put the engine in
forward, spun the wheel and resumed my winter trip. Did I miss out on
something by not doing that by hand? Don't make me laugh. I don't need
a radar where I sail, but having one is real nice. Now that I do have
one (came with the windlass) I will want one on my next boat. I learned
to sail, and did, for over 3 decades plotting manually. Still can. But I
enjoy having my GPS map do it for me. Life is getting shorter and I
prefer to enjoy it rather than doing things I can have machines do for
me.

Btw, there were always clueless "sailors". Even back in the
lash-the-sticks-together age of primitive rafting.

I'm sure people said the same things as you when the first engines were
put into sailing yachts. But unless your name is Pardey I doubt even you
would be w/o one.

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006 04:13:04 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

She or he has a point. People who use all the "stuff" never really
become sailors. They may think they're sailors, but they would

Sorry Russkie, that is crap.

Better to say that people who have relied upon conveniences and
technology from the start often never learn how to function without
them. And that includes most "cruisers", IMHO.

You often find these fine folks on rugged, near idiot-proof boats,
like the Island Packet line. After all, they didn't get rich by being
fools.

Notice how many Island Packets are for sale at any given time. They
are purchased, take out for a season or two, and put back on the
market when the "sailors" discover the discomforts and sacrifices
involved in an overnight journey. The boats then appear in full color
ads complete with new air conditioners, generators, helm-mounted chart
plotters, bow thrusters, and custom sunbrella covers for the winches
and brightly colored gerrycans.

It cracks me up.

Too bad the prices never come down. I'de like to scoop one of those
up!

In article ,
says...


I can sort of agree, but unless you sail a wooden boat with flaxen
sails, hemp lines, and a rock killick you really can't criticize which
conveniences somebody picks. I'm certainly old enough to remember
when lots of people claimed that real sailor would never sail a
fiberglass boat.

Hell! I am old enough to remember when sailboats of any size had
neither stanchions nor lifelines and children sailed in tippy dinks and
catboats with never a thought to PFDs. They learned to swim as well as
sail.

I thought the one thing we all agreed upon here is that nobody criticizes
anyone else's boat handling because no matter how skilled and experienced you
are sooner or later you will end up in the same embarrasssing not to say
dangerous situation as the clunkiest among us. This does not apply to motor
boaters.

So your anchor always sets and you almost never have to reset? Great. Try a
bottom covered with tree branches or other fouling. Or soupy mud. Or being
downwind of a raft that has broken loose. Or...or...or... And don't criticize
ny anchoring technique when you don't know under what conditions I am
operating or with what equipment.

On 20 Jul 2006 23:50:01 -0500, Jack wrote:

Too bad the prices never come down. I'de like to scoop one of those
up!

Ahhh, now I understand the bad attitude. Poor Jack never made enough
money to afford a decent boat for himself. Therefore anyone who can
afford one does not meet his high standards for seamanship.

So how much wine can you make with those sour grapes Jackie boy?

Gogarty wrote:

I thought the one thing we all agreed upon here is that nobody criticizes
anyone else's boat handling because no matter how skilled and experienced you
are sooner or later you will end up in the same embarrasssing not to say
dangerous situation as the clunkiest among us. This does not apply to motor
boaters.

Who agreed on that? And why, if we are agreed, do people say that an
electric windlass is absolutely required and anyone who does not want
one must be some kind of idiot?

So your anchor always sets and you almost never have to reset? Great. Try a
bottom covered with tree branches or other fouling. Or soupy mud. Or being
downwind of a raft that has broken loose. Or...or...or... And don't criticize
ny anchoring technique when you don't know under what conditions I am
operating or with what equipment.

I am assuming (although we know about that) that you are referring to
me. I was tentative about offering any criticism because I wasn't
very comfortable with doing it, but it does seem to me that if someone
OFTEN has to reset an anchor so that an electric windlass would be an
absolute necessity, that it might be a good idea to check up on your
anchoring techniques, or your pick of an anchorage or your equipment
so that you don't have to do it so often. Even with an electric
windlass it would be a PITA to do it OFTEN.

When we have a problem, we usually try to figure out what we did
wrong, so that we can avoid doing it again. And in no case has the
lack of an electric windlass been a problem. Even when one has back
problems, the amount of leverage provided by the windlass handle is
such that no hard effort is required, and it isn't a back issue.

Plus, I don't think that being downwind of a raft that has broken
loose happens very often.

Now that I think about it, I remember more times that we have had to
reset than I did originally. They didn't turn up in my memory
because they were really non-events compared to all the times that the
anchor held beautifully without resetting even in fairly violent
stormy conditions.

For instance when we turned into Mile Hammock Bay, an artificial
dredged anchorage (on Marine Corps property - Camp Lejeune NC) at
2:30 pm in the rain in November 2000, there were 3 other boats already
there . Bob decided to anchor on the inner edge of the dredged area
away from the other boats. We had difficulty because we would start
out in 10 feet of water and as he let out the anchor chain, we would
be blown out onto the shallow part and end up in 5 feet of water. Bob
reset the anchor once, and then just decided to put out less scope.
Eight other boats came into the anchorage later, including a trawler
who appeared to have anchored on top of our anchor. But the trawler
left very early so we didn't have to decide what to do about that. We
didn't anchor in that anchorage again because we figured our mileage
so that we didn't have to - mostly because the entrance to the
anchorage was a bit shallow, and Bob hates going aground but also
because there was a cheap marina in Swansboro which we stayed at on
subsequent trips. (Although on the last trip in the spring of 2004
the docks appeared quite deteriorated so I don't know if we would go
there again.)

In article ,
says...


Gogarty wrote:

I thought the one thing we all agreed upon here is that nobody criticizes
anyone else's boat handling because no matter how skilled and experienced
you
are sooner or later you will end up in the same embarrasssing not to say
dangerous situation as the clunkiest among us. This does not apply to motor
boaters.

Who agreed on that? And why, if we are agreed, do people say that an
electric windlass is absolutely required and anyone who does not want
one must be some kind of idiot?

So your anchor always sets and you almost never have to reset? Great. Try a
bottom covered with tree branches or other fouling. Or soupy mud. Or being
downwind of a raft that has broken loose. Or...or...or... And don't
criticize
ny anchoring technique when you don't know under what conditions I am
operating or with what equipment.

I am assuming (although we know about that) that you are referring to
me. I was tentative about offering any criticism because I wasn't
very comfortable with doing it, but it does seem to me that if someone
OFTEN has to reset an anchor so that an electric windlass would be an
absolute necessity, that it might be a good idea to check up on your
anchoring techniques, or your pick of an anchorage or your equipment
so that you don't have to do it so often. Even with an electric
windlass it would be a PITA to do it OFTEN.

When we have a problem, we usually try to figure out what we did
wrong, so that we can avoid doing it again. And in no case has the
lack of an electric windlass been a problem. Even when one has back
problems, the amount of leverage provided by the windlass handle is
such that no hard effort is required, and it isn't a back issue.

Plus, I don't think that being downwind of a raft that has broken
loose happens very often.

Now that I think about it, I remember more times that we have had to
reset than I did originally. They didn't turn up in my memory
because they were really non-events compared to all the times that the
anchor held beautifully without resetting even in fairly violent
stormy conditions.

For instance when we turned into Mile Hammock Bay, an artificial
dredged anchorage (on Marine Corps property - Camp Lejeune NC) at
2:30 pm in the rain in November 2000, there were 3 other boats already
there . Bob decided to anchor on the inner edge of the dredged area
away from the other boats. We had difficulty because we would start
out in 10 feet of water and as he let out the anchor chain, we would
be blown out onto the shallow part and end up in 5 feet of water. Bob
reset the anchor once, and then just decided to put out less scope.
Eight other boats came into the anchorage later, including a trawler
who appeared to have anchored on top of our anchor. But the trawler
left very early so we didn't have to decide what to do about that. We
didn't anchor in that anchorage again because we figured our mileage
so that we didn't have to - mostly because the entrance to the
anchorage was a bit shallow, and Bob hates going aground but also
because there was a cheap marina in Swansboro which we stayed at on
subsequent trips. (Although on the last trip in the spring of 2004
the docks appeared quite deteriorated so I don't know if we would go
there again.)

There! See?

You don't want an electric windlass? Fine. But don't make others out to be
somewhat less than pure if they desire to have one. Best umpteen bucks I ever
spent. And I looked at manual ones. Never looked back.

Perhaps someone can explain to me how it is that every dinky power boat has a
windlass but on sailboats as large as 45 ft and even larger a windlass is not
standard equipment? Our 37 footer and an Endeavour 40 belonging to a friend
aren't even windlass friendly when it comes to adding one. They just were not
designed for after-market windlasses.

"Jack" wrote in message

Look at the photos. There they are playing card below
while the boat
runs on autopilot. Don't worry - the C.A.R.D. system will
keep
everyone safe - and the beer - it's all nice and cold. And
if they
have to anchor, boing...plonk. No problemo! Worried about
the weather?
Well;;, here comes another weatherfax, so who needs that
barometer
thingy. Need to poop? Don'y worry, cuz we got the latest
vacuum
flusher and special TP too! Want to watch a movie or cool
off? Just
flip on that generator, bro.


That sounds nice!