In article . com,
says...



Sorry to hear about your experience with the Lewmar. I have a Concept
(forget the #) windlass on my boat and have had good service from it
for 7+ years. Lewmar foot switches on the deck forward and the supplied
Lewmar 'remote' toggle switch in the cockpit.

(Snip)

The problemn is only with the deck switches forward. The toggle switch in the
cockpit works great. But then, I supplied the wiring for that.

My wiring and motor are not below decks but in the former anchor deck locker.
Despite gaskets and various waterproofing gloop, they will not stay dry.
Tinned wire survives just fine. Plain copper does not. Do you know how much
Lewmar charges for one of those deck switches? Do you know what's inside them?
A tiny pushbutton switch about the size of a thumbnail with three tiny copper
wires potted into the bottom of the switch case. No way to bring proper wire
into the switch. A circular piece of plastic and matching foam pad. The rubber
weather cover on which you step. And the three piece hard plastic snap
together case.

But hey, making up another connection is a lot easier on my back than dragging
up a Delta 35 and 150 ft. of chain.

Another thing I noticed when I dissassembled the windlass to get the motor
fixed was that the inside of the windlass where it mates to the motor
drive-shaft was solidly packed with salt.

"John" wrote in message
oups.com...

GBM wrote:
I am still trying to decide on a windlass for our boat. Perhaps some the
experienced cruisers can help?

Our alternator output, is nominally 55A, but likely actually quite a bit
less. Max size alternator recommended for Yanmar 2QM15 engine is about
80A)

I would echo the comments made by others here- get a decent sized
windlass and put in heavy-duty wiring. It's expensive, but just part of
the 'hidden cost' of windlass installations.
I've got a Lewmar Concept windass with an 80A breaker, but I'm sure it
never draws anything like that current in practice. Usual anchor is a
35#CQR with 5/16 chain for the first 175 ft, then rope. Alternator is
55A Hitachi, battery banks supply about 300Ah or so. When using the
windlass, we run the engine and parallel the battery banks- probably
overkill.
Wiring (this is important) is 1/0 tinned marine cable with swaged-on
lugs. My marine electrical advisor (Paul Thornton of Oakville, ON)
insisted on this over my objections, and he was right. Boat is 30ft
sloop, batteries aft.

John,
Your example perhaps explains the reason for my question.

You are right - If I go to a windlass that draws 80 - 90A, I WOULD need
large cables.

Wiring size comment: I doubt windlass wiring really needs to be sized for
3% drop, but if this is desired, your wire size is probably about right. At
10% drop the wire size could be 2AWG which I would think would suffice. If
the engine is running, voltage will be higher anyway, so voltage drop should
not be a major issue (Out of interest, how did you conclude that your
advisor was right about the 1/0 wire?)

Getting back to windlass choice: Why choose a windlass that draws such a
high current on a 30-32 ft boat? There are windlasses available that use
epicyclic (planetary) gears that are much more efficient.

For example, a Quick Genius (similar specs to Concept 1) draws just 40A at
working load - Quick recommends 6AWG wire for a 50-60ft return trip. See:
http://www.1stopmarineshop.com/Quick%20Windlass.html . The Lofrans Dorado
has similar lower current draw. http://www.lofrans.it/english/intro.html
There are vertical units that are also efficient. Is there a downside to
using one of the higher efficiency units?

Regarding adding to battery power: I could use a dedicated battery, but
can't see the point of mounting this forward, especially with a combiner.
After raising the anchor, surely the battery could be quite low and draw
most or all of the alternator output. Can't see how Andina Maries' 10ga wire
would handle a long run carrying say 50 -80A from the alternator unless the
combiner limits the current (longer recharge time)

I think one of my main concerns has been answered - If I draw 80A for 5-10
min, I will not deplete my house batteries very much and even with my low
output alternator, they will recover if I run motor for a short while. If I
chose a high efficiency unit that draws just 40A, I will be even better off
electrically, and its seems will not have to sacrifice much in pulling
power?

Thanks for the input!

GBM

"GBM" wrote in message
...
Question: Would I be better to buy a somewhat undersized windlass that
might
only draw 35A? (e.g Lofrans Dorado with gypsy on wrong side ) or buy
the
larger unit and draw a bigger current?


It would be far better to install enough battery capacity so you don't have
to worry about it. But in practice even a single 100 amp hour battery will
not be seriously affected by a 60 amp draw for 5-10 minutes. I would prefer
to have at least 200 AHs of battery capacity however. And you really need
400 AH of capacity if you expect to anchor more than one night with lights
and refrigeration going. And then you might want a larger capacity
alternator with an external 3 stage regulator. You get the picture- don't
worry about your windlass size, worry about your battery capacity and how
you are going to recharge it.

David

GBM wrote:
John,
Your example perhaps explains the reason for my question.

You are right - If I go to a windlass that draws 80 - 90A, I WOULD need
large cables.

I'm quite sure I've never drawn close to this current with my windlass.
You should understand that you will need the same number of watts of
power to hoist your anchor at a given speed- no matter which windlass
you choose. A larger capacity windlass 'just lazing along' will draw
the same current as (probably less than) a smaller one which is near
stalling.
(Out of interest, how did you conclude that your
advisor was right about the 1/0 wire?)

A trip on another boat with undersized wiring and problems, and no
problems with my installation. Positive comments on surveys. Great rep
of advisor.

Getting back to windlass choice: Why choose a windlass that draws such a
high current on a 30-32 ft boat? There are windlasses available that use
epicyclic (planetary) gears that are much more efficient.

I wanted a vertical axis windlass with rope/chain gypsy and rope
capstan above. There were limited choices. Current draw is not an
issue. I didn't want a flimsy unit from an unknown maker. There's not a
big difference in 'efficiency' between different motor designs for
windlasses. Compare speed of hoist and load (in N)- you will need the
same number of watts with any unit. There's no 'free lunch'. You are
trading speed of hoist, force and power consumption.

For example, a Quick Genius (similar specs to Concept 1) draws just 40A at
working load - Quick recommends 6AWG wire for a 50-60ft return trip. See:
http://www.1stopmarineshop.com/Quick%20Windlass.html . The Lofrans Dorado
has similar lower current draw. http://www.lofrans.it/english/intro.html
There are vertical units that are also efficient. Is there a downside to
using one of the higher efficiency units?


I think one of my main concerns has been answered - If I draw 80A for 5-10
min,
Well, one of the 'high efficiency' units may take 5-10 min to hoist the
anchor and rode, but I've never needed more than a couple of minutes to
pull in even 300 ft of rode and anchor.

A couple of ammeters in your system will open your eyes to the actual
situation- put one in the charging line and another on the load side.
You will be amazed how little current is produced by your alternator
(without an external over-ride regulator). A couple of reading lights
left on for the evening will pull more energy from your battery bank
than hoisting your anchor with your new windlass.

So many choices, so little cash!

Cheers
John

On Wed, 19 Jul 2006 18:41:24 -0700, "David&Joan"
wrote:

don't
worry about your windlass size, worry about your battery capacity and how
you are going to recharge it.

Exactly, get the right windlass for the job.

"John" wrote

Well, one of the 'high efficiency' units may take 5-10 min to hoist the
anchor and rode, but I've never needed more than a couple of minutes to
pull in even 300 ft of rode and anchor.

John - If you compare specs and read the tests/reviews, you will find that
some windlasses do consume less power for the same working load and speed.
Here is some data from the manufacturer's literature comparing the Lewmar
Concept 1 with a Quick Genius 600 (admittedly quite different windlasses):


Working load:- Quick: 85Kg Lewmar 45Kg (seems
low?)
Maximum pull:- Quick:680Kg Lewmar 650Kg
Speed at working load:- Quick: 44ft/min @ 85kg Lewmar: 46ft/min
@ 45kg
Current draw at working load: Quick: 40A Lewmar: 80A

This is not a Lewmar vs Quick thing. Even within the same company, there are
efficiency differences. I have looked at many windlasses that would suit my
boat (using 3X ground tackle weight) and found large discepancies in power
and current usage. The Quick reps confirmed this and explained that it was
due to lower losses in the gearing of some newer designs - Power required
can be 30-50% less for the same load, even if speed is comparable.

Everyone has their own take on these things, but mine is to put in the most
efficient unit that will do the job. This is partly driven by limited
engine HP which limits alternator size, which limits battery bank capacity.
It is also driven by keeping weight and dollars invested to a minimum

GBM




A couple of ammeters in your system will open your eyes to the actual
situation- put one in the charging line and another on the load side.
You will be amazed how little current is produced by your alternator
(without an external over-ride regulator). A couple of reading lights
left on for the evening will pull more energy from your battery bank
than hoisting your anchor with your new windlass.

So many choices, so little cash!

Cheers
John

"Wayne.B" wrote

Exactly, get the right windlass for the job.


That is the object of this discussion!

Question is, is why do some windlasses draw double the current when
everything else (max load, working load, chain speed) is the same or even
sometimes worse?

GBM

On Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:47:29 -0400, "GBM"
wrote:

Question is, is why do some windlasses draw double the current when
everything else (max load, working load, chain speed) is the same or even
sometimes worse?

Higher current draw is almost always indicative of a more powerful
motor. Max load, working load and chainspeed are all fuctions of how
strongly the unit is built and the gear ratios. Weight and size are
good indicators of overall ruggedness as well. A small light weight
unit with similar specs is frequently compromised in the area of
durability. My former boat had a beautifully designed windlass which
was very sleek looking and not terribly large for its power and speed.
The gear box however looked like a Swiss watch on the inside and was
just about as reliable when exposed to a rough and tumble, salt water
environment.

"GBM" wrote:

Question is, is why do some windlasses draw double the current when
everything else (max load, working load, chain speed) is the same or
even
sometimes worse?

snip

Use LightHouse, manufactured about 30 miles from here, as the gold
standard for this size windlass.

Lew