Ferry encounter
 

"Gary" wrote

How far ahead of you did the ferry pass? Maybe her appreciation of
the situation was different from your. Her ARPA may have indicated
a safe CPA astern (one that the ferry was comfortable with) while
you were eyeballing it.

The ferry is an older and minimally equipped boat. Judging by how
close I was amidships at the pass there absolutely would have been
contact if I had stood on.

--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

Roger Long wrote:
"Gary" wrote


What you are saying here is you only adhere to the rules when you
want to and the rest of the boats on the water know you do that?
What about the rule that requires you to stand on? Maybe you have
inadvertently created the confusion by allowing some vessels to pass
while demanding your rights with this one?


Not at all. I'm quite cognizant of the need for the stand on vessel
to behave in a predictable fashion. Once a situation has developed to
the point that the burdened vessel needs to make a correction in
course I religiously go straight and steady.

When I give way to the ferries, I do it well in advance of it's
becoming a crossing situation and do it with a clear and often
exaggerated course change to make my intentions clear. This is done
well in advance of it becoming an encounter. Thinking about it
further, I probably do this far enough outside their zone of concern
that I kind of doubt that the notice. After all, I know exactly what
their route is likely to be.

Still, the point about creating confusion is an interesting one. I
see it more in terms of everyone's aggregate behavior though. Maybe
it would be better if everyone insisted on their right of way. In a
small busy harbor, though, you are often burdened and stand on at the
same time to different vessels.

I don't think of it as "insisting" on the right of way. In Naval
thinking, it is always better to be the "give way vessel" because you
are free to take early action. The "burdened" vessel is really the guy
who, by the rules, is required to maintain his course and speed until he
sounds the 5 short or feels that collision can only be avoided by his
taking action.

I think of the guy who has the requirement to keep clear as the guy with
all the options.

In your circumstance, where the vessel required to keep out of the way
doesn't, once you sound the 5 shorts you are free by the rules to keep
out of his way. Finally, sounding the 5 short "wake up" signal might
just make it obvious to the other vessel that you are concerned (in case
they aren't sailors and didn't recognize your situation).

Gary

Ferry encounter
 

Dave wrote in news:0jpoa2lk64b0kfbcbk8fagntnh9m2khiuf@
4ax.com:

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 00:13:43 GMT, Gary said:

I don't think of it as "insisting" on the right of way. In Naval
thinking, it is always better to be the "give way vessel" because you
are free to take early action. The "burdened" vessel is really the guy
who, by the rules, is required to maintain his course and speed until he
sounds the 5 short or feels that collision can only be avoided by his
taking action.

Excellent point, Gary, and one too often misunderstood by sea lawyers.


In truth, you no longer have to wait that long.

otn

Ferry encounter
 

Yes, excellent point.

It brings up the question of horns in my mind again. I don't use
sound signals or radio in the harbor, primarily because my hands are
simply too full. Although horn signals might cover my ass legally,
there is isn't much chance of my horn being heard in a powervessel
pilothouse. Even if it was, they probably wouldn't distinguish it
from the idiots tooting hello to their buddies and other general
chaos.

I've thought about installing an air horn so my boat could make a lot
of noise but this would probably result in large vessels looking
around for something big and then misunderstanding because so few
small sailing vessels can make real noise or use sound signals. If
everyone in our small harbor was tooting at each other, it would be a
little nutty. It might be different if more than 15% of the pleasure
boaters had a clue. The last time I tried to use a horn in a harbor
it just resulted in a big power boat that wasn't even a traffic factor
leaning on his horn and giving me the finger because he thought I was
being unreasonable to be tooting at him. I wasn't but, for a lot of
those guys, it's all about them.

I'm not sure the ferry captains would care or bother to yak with every
small boat out there. I'm quite comfortable with the radio. In my
flying days, I would talk to several airplanes at untowered fields as
we all figured out how to not hit each other when hard to see against
the landscape, going fast, different altitudes, etc.

It's different when two, or just a few, boats are out in more open
water. My encounter was actually one of those situations where horn
and radio would have been useful. Because these situation arise so
seldom, the horn was just out of reach and the radio inside. Believe
me, I'm rethinking that but no solid conclusions yet. In this
situation, a timely luff, even though a bit dicey, was still a better
option than trying to handle the boat and deal with horns and radios
at the same time.

--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:40:02 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I'm not sure the ferry captains would care or bother to yak with every
small boat out there. I'm quite comfortable with the radio.

Most commercial vessels monitor 13 and 16 all of the time and are
quick to respond to a call on 13 in my experience. You need to learn
their language with regard to passing on "one whistle" or "two
whistles". That's how they generally communicate with each other and
it's much more effective than actual horn signals.

Ferry encounter
 

Actually, I do know the lingo and that the radio has been a substitute
for the horns for a long time. This does make me realize something I
hadn't thought of though. I've been thinking they would be reluctant
to engage with every yacht out there but I'll bet it's similar to air
traffic controllers. When they hear a crisp and professional sounding
call up they give the pilot much different service than when someone
is stumbling and blubbering. I'm sure the commercial vessel captains
would respond to an efficient and proper call as well.

--

Roger Long



"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:40:02 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I'm not sure the ferry captains would care or bother to yak with
every
small boat out there. I'm quite comfortable with the radio.

Most commercial vessels monitor 13 and 16 all of the time and are
quick to respond to a call on 13 in my experience. You need to
learn
their language with regard to passing on "one whistle" or "two
whistles". That's how they generally communicate with each other
and
it's much more effective than actual horn signals.

Ferry encounter
 

"Roger Long" wrote:

Actually, I do know the lingo and that the radio has been a substitute
for the horns for a long time. This does make me realize something I
hadn't thought of though. I've been thinking they would be reluctant
to engage with every yacht out there but I'll bet it's similar to air
traffic controllers. When they hear a crisp and professional sounding
call up they give the pilot much different service than when someone
is stumbling and blubbering. I'm sure the commercial vessel captains
would respond to an efficient and proper call as well.

We fixed the radio mike so that we could get it from the helm (radio
was in the aft cabin). And we put the radio speakers in the cockpit
after we had an incident going through Norfolk very slowly so we would
get to the next bridge when it would be able to open, and we totally
did not hear or see a barge with a tow coming up behind us. A friend
(also behind us) called me on the radio and I heard that (because he
used my name).

As for efficient and proper - I'll repeat a story I've told before -
we were going to be going into the Lake Worth inlet (Palm Beach) and
Bob saw a small cruise ship called the Palm Beach Princess also
heading for the inlet, so he circled south of the inlet until they
started to enter, and then he told me to follow them while he got the
lines out and took the sails down. Suddenly I was CLOSING (rather
than just staying behind them) and I asked Bob if they were backing
up. He confirmed that they were. So I called nicely on the radio -
PBP, PBP, PBP this is RosalieAnn etc. First on Channel 16 and then
13. No response. I could see the people out on the bridge by now.
Finally in exasperation, I said "Palm Beach Princess WHAT ARE YOU
DOING???" Then they answered - they said they were waiting for the
pilot and I should just go in ahead of them.

Ferry encounter
 

Rosalie B. wrote:
"Roger Long" wrote:


Actually, I do know the lingo and that the radio has been a substitute
for the horns for a long time. This does make me realize something I
hadn't thought of though. I've been thinking they would be reluctant
to engage with every yacht out there but I'll bet it's similar to air
traffic controllers. When they hear a crisp and professional sounding
call up they give the pilot much different service than when someone
is stumbling and blubbering. I'm sure the commercial vessel captains
would respond to an efficient and proper call as well.


We fixed the radio mike so that we could get it from the helm (radio
was in the aft cabin). And we put the radio speakers in the cockpit
after we had an incident going through Norfolk very slowly so we would
get to the next bridge when it would be able to open, and we totally
did not hear or see a barge with a tow coming up behind us. A friend
(also behind us) called me on the radio and I heard that (because he
used my name).

As for efficient and proper - I'll repeat a story I've told before -
we were going to be going into the Lake Worth inlet (Palm Beach) and
Bob saw a small cruise ship called the Palm Beach Princess also
heading for the inlet, so he circled south of the inlet until they
started to enter, and then he told me to follow them while he got the
lines out and took the sails down. Suddenly I was CLOSING (rather
than just staying behind them) and I asked Bob if they were backing
up. He confirmed that they were. So I called nicely on the radio -
PBP, PBP, PBP this is RosalieAnn etc. First on Channel 16 and then
13. No response. I could see the people out on the bridge by now.
Finally in exasperation, I said "Palm Beach Princess WHAT ARE YOU
DOING???" Then they answered - they said they were waiting for the
pilot and I should just go in ahead of them.

Doesn't anyone but me have a handheld VHF sitting in the cup holder on
the pedestal available for immediate use? Why do all that rewiring.
Handhelds are inexpensive and convenient
krj

Ferry encounter
 

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 12:32:21 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

When they hear a crisp and professional sounding
call up they give the pilot much different service than when someone
is stumbling and blubbering. I'm sure the commercial vessel captains
would respond to an efficient and proper call as well.

========================

That's been my experience.

Ferry encounter
 

Although a good "general" statement, many harbors, approaches, commercial
operators, etc. may be monitoring channels and concentrating on one, that
are different to this norm.
For instance, when I'm working, I'm monitoring 16,14,06,65 (eg note, no
13), and at times I may not be in a position to readily hear 16, 06.
Also note that in some cases they will have one radio on dual watch (16,13)
and another on a "company" frequency, so that it's possible they may miss a
call on the "dual" watch set.

otn

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 11:40:02 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

I'm not sure the ferry captains would care or bother to yak with every
small boat out there. I'm quite comfortable with the radio.

Most commercial vessels monitor 13 and 16 all of the time and are
quick to respond to a call on 13 in my experience. You need to learn
their language with regard to passing on "one whistle" or "two
whistles". That's how they generally communicate with each other and
it's much more effective than actual horn signals.