Ferry encounter
 

Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels
change when they became official terrorist targets under the
protection of homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I’ve had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty
and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is
a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to
guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It
isn’t a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the
center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below
cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was
proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The
ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn’t change.
There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them
astern and I really didn’t want to tack. I started looking for a head
in the pilot house and couldn’t see any faces so I finally luffed up
which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down
and began to lose rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a
lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us
intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on
the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and
unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think
that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their
draft really applied to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn’t luffed or taken some
more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just
coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would
have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of
character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?


--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

Roger Long wrote:
Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels
change when they became official terrorist targets under the
protection of homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I’ve had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty
and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is
a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to
guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It
isn’t a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the
center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below
cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was
proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The
ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn’t change.
There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them
astern and I really didn’t want to tack. I started looking for a head
in the pilot house and couldn’t see any faces so I finally luffed up
which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down
and began to lose rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a
lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us
intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on
the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and
unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think
that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their
draft really applied to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn’t luffed or taken some
more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just
coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would
have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of
character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?


Roger...don't mess with ferries.
A buddy of mine had the job of ferrying school kids over water off the
islands between the mainland and Vancouver Island. He got a bit close to
one of the big BC ferrys and all hell broke lose. Ended up being
threatened with charges and lost his job. They are supreme beings out
on the waterways. Stay well away from them.

Ferry encounter
 

There are new rules about leaving clearances around ferries, since 9/11.

I think it might be two hundred yards, but it's been a little while since I
saw the notices. They were posted all around our marinas and in the
newspapers as well. Never saw them, out your way? Riding the Bainbridge
ferry to Seattle, I've even occasionally seen Coast Guard escorts in
high-speed inflatables, with mounted 50 caliber machine guns.

I'd leave them plenty of room if I were you. They might get a little twitchy
if you try to pull the old sail right-of-way flim-flam on them. Besides,
they're not very maneuverable and they might hit you even while they were
trying to avoid you.

Regards,
Tom Dacon

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change
when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of
homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and
increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large
anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the
largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn't a channel
in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning
and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding
down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was
going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change. There was
plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I
really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot
house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some
finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose
rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot
like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently
without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed
water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule
about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied
to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some more
dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up
to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided
any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the
outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?


--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change
when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of
homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and
increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large
anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the
largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn't a channel
in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning
and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding
down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was
going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change. There was
plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I
really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot
house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some
finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose
rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot
like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently
without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed
water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule
about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied
to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some more
dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up
to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided
any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the
outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?


Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are no
special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for
approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a ferry
that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If there are,
I'd love to see a link. We sail with ferries all of the time in the SF bay,
and they know the rules and obey them. We do not change course to avoid
them, unless they're either in front of us and it's an overtaking situation
(damn rare) or coming into or out of a restricted spot, such as the short
channel near the ferry dock.

If I were you, I would have gotten her numbers and given them or the CG a
call.

I had an encounter with a fishing boat coming back to port that was somewhat
similar. We were sailing, they were overtaking and had plenty of room to go
around. Their skipper decided that not being late for dinner was more
important that following the rules, and we barely were able to avoid the
boat, taking evasive action as a last resort after signalling (no time for a
call on the VHF, but I doubt they were listening). I knew who they were and
where they were berthed and discussed the situation with the harbor master
upon our arrival. He had had other complaints about this particular boat,
and promised to look into it. We've seen them out there after this happened
in somewhat similar situations, and they have not failed to give way.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ferry encounter
 

"Capt. JG" wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in message
.. .
Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change
when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of
homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and
increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large
anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the
largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn't a channel
in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning
and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding
down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was
going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change. There was
plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I
really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot
house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some
finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose
rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot
like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently
without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed
water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule
about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied
to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some more
dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up
to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided
any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the
outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?


Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are no
special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for
approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a ferry
that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If there are,
I'd love to see a link. We sail with ferries all of the time in the SF bay,
and they know the rules and obey them. We do not change course to avoid
them, unless they're either in front of us and it's an overtaking situation
(damn rare) or coming into or out of a restricted spot, such as the short
channel near the ferry dock.

If I were you, I would have gotten her numbers and given them or the CG a
call.

I had an encounter with a fishing boat coming back to port that was somewhat
similar. We were sailing, they were overtaking and had plenty of room to go
around. Their skipper decided that not being late for dinner was more
important that following the rules, and we barely were able to avoid the
boat, taking evasive action as a last resort after signalling (no time for a
call on the VHF, but I doubt they were listening). I knew who they were and
where they were berthed and discussed the situation with the harbor master
upon our arrival. He had had other complaints about this particular boat,
and promised to look into it. We've seen them out there after this happened
in somewhat similar situations, and they have not failed to give way.

We have had similar situations, although we were almost always under
power but we were being overtaken.

The first one was in mid 2000 - a menhaden boat coming into the
Greater Wicomico to Reedville. We were under sail, but were in the
process of turning on the engine to go into anchor in Mill Creek off
the Great Wicomico. As we were coming in, a large (abt 100 feet) grey
boat came boiling up behind us on the port side. We were on the
starboard side of the channel, but thought since he was overtaking
that he would go around us.

NOT. We finally made a panic circle to the starboard out of the
channel so that he wouldn't ram us. At that point he made a whole
bunch of rapid blasts of his horn.

The second incident was the first time we went down the ICW when we
were on the Elizabeth River in Norfolk in November 2000. The
Elizabeth River ferry paddle wheel came out from his dock and turned
down the river along our port side. He started to pass us and got
almost all the way past, and then decided to come over to the other
side of the river, and turned almost right into us. I thought we
would be skewered. We speeded up so he went behind us.

So a little later on in the trip, when we encountered the Fort Fisher
ferry, we tried to stay out of their way, because these ferries
apparently don't deviate from their track, and the route isn't obvious
on the charts (although it is on the road map)
..

Ferry encounter
 

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
"Capt. JG" wrote:

"Roger Long" wrote in message
. ..
Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change
when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of
homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and
increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a
large
anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the
largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn't a
channel
in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below
cleaning
and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding
down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was
going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change. There was
plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I
really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot
house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some
finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose
rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a
lot
like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently
without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and
unobstructed
water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule
about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied
to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some more
dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up
to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided
any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the
outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?


Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are no
special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for
approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a ferry
that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If there are,
I'd love to see a link. We sail with ferries all of the time in the SF
bay,
and they know the rules and obey them. We do not change course to avoid
them, unless they're either in front of us and it's an overtaking
situation
(damn rare) or coming into or out of a restricted spot, such as the short
channel near the ferry dock.

If I were you, I would have gotten her numbers and given them or the CG a
call.

I had an encounter with a fishing boat coming back to port that was
somewhat
similar. We were sailing, they were overtaking and had plenty of room to
go
around. Their skipper decided that not being late for dinner was more
important that following the rules, and we barely were able to avoid the
boat, taking evasive action as a last resort after signalling (no time for
a
call on the VHF, but I doubt they were listening). I knew who they were
and
where they were berthed and discussed the situation with the harbor master
upon our arrival. He had had other complaints about this particular boat,
and promised to look into it. We've seen them out there after this
happened
in somewhat similar situations, and they have not failed to give way.

We have had similar situations, although we were almost always under
power but we were being overtaken.

The first one was in mid 2000 - a menhaden boat coming into the
Greater Wicomico to Reedville. We were under sail, but were in the
process of turning on the engine to go into anchor in Mill Creek off
the Great Wicomico. As we were coming in, a large (abt 100 feet) grey
boat came boiling up behind us on the port side. We were on the
starboard side of the channel, but thought since he was overtaking
that he would go around us.

NOT. We finally made a panic circle to the starboard out of the
channel so that he wouldn't ram us. At that point he made a whole
bunch of rapid blasts of his horn.

The second incident was the first time we went down the ICW when we
were on the Elizabeth River in Norfolk in November 2000. The
Elizabeth River ferry paddle wheel came out from his dock and turned
down the river along our port side. He started to pass us and got
almost all the way past, and then decided to come over to the other
side of the river, and turned almost right into us. I thought we
would be skewered. We speeded up so he went behind us.

So a little later on in the trip, when we encountered the Fort Fisher
ferry, we tried to stay out of their way, because these ferries
apparently don't deviate from their track, and the route isn't obvious
on the charts (although it is on the road map)

Interesting.. out here they definitely go around all sailboats. I have yet
to see a ferry not follow the rules - although they occasionally hit the
docks pretty hard :-) What you're describing really sounds dangerous. I mean
how do you know what to do if commercial vessels don't follow the rules of
the road? Strange.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ferry encounter
 

"Roger Long" wrote in news:MGDpg.58359$3B.6612
@twister.nyroc.rr.com:

I started looking for a head
in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up


Too bad your digital camera wasn't just sitting there to take a good
closeup picture of that empty bridge for the CG boys to consider.....

Ferry encounter
 

"Capt. JG" wrote:

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
.. .

The second incident was the first time we went down the ICW when we
were on the Elizabeth River in Norfolk in November 2000. The
Elizabeth River ferry paddle wheel came out from his dock and turned
down the river along our port side. He started to pass us and got
almost all the way past, and then decided to come over to the other
side of the river, and turned almost right into us. I thought we
would be skewered. We speeded up so he went behind us.

So a little later on in the trip, when we encountered the Fort Fisher
ferry, we tried to stay out of their way, because these ferries
apparently don't deviate from their track, and the route isn't obvious
on the charts (although it is on the road map)

Interesting.. out here they definitely go around all sailboats. I have yet
to see a ferry not follow the rules - although they occasionally hit the
docks pretty hard :-) What you're describing really sounds dangerous. I mean
how do you know what to do if commercial vessels don't follow the rules of
the road? Strange.

In the case of both ferries, we were not sailing, we were under power.
But in all three cases they were overtaking.

In any case, for large commercial vessels of any kind, we get out of
their way (if at all possible) before it comes up to following or not
following the rules. If necessary, Bob will circle the boat -
especially if the ship in question is a tug and tow.

We did have a close call once when crossing the Savannah River (motor
sailing). The ICW cuts across while large ships are going up and down
the river. (The same situation applies for the river in Jacksonville
FL, but the sight lines are better.)

There was a German warship coming in the river, and we could hear the
very southern pilot on the radio warning sailboats in the ICW. I saw
the superstructure of the ship (mostly the mast part) through the
trees, but did not immediately recognize it as a ship - I thought it
was just some funny kind of tree. There was another sailboat ahead of
us, and I thought the pilot was talking to them. He could only see
our mast, so he couldn't tell that the boat ahead of us was a
catamaran. [When I called Bob's attention to the funny 'tree', he did
recognize it as a ship.]

But when we came out into the river, we saw the warship a very short
distance away, and consequently we put on the power to get out of his
way and onto the other side of the channel.

Ferry encounter
 

On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 23:37:16 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels
change when they became official terrorist targets under the
protection of homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I’ve had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty
and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is
a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to
guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It
isn’t a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the
center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below
cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was
proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The
ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn’t change.
There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them
astern and I really didn’t want to tack. I started looking for a head
in the pilot house and couldn’t see any faces so I finally luffed up
which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down
and began to lose rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a
lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us
intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on
the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and
unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think
that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their
draft really applied to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn’t luffed or taken some
more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just
coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would
have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of
character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?

I can only think of three possibilities:

1) the ferry was using rule 9 of colregs.

2) a traffic seprartion zone is in effect (a chart would show that)

3) harbour regulations (would need to see them)

Jack

_________________________________________
Jack Dale
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor
CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
_________________________________________

Ferry encounter
 

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
In the case of both ferries, we were not sailing, we were under power.
But in all three cases they were overtaking.

Sure thing. Doesn't make much difference, since it was an overtaking
situation.

In any case, for large commercial vessels of any kind, we get out of
their way (if at all possible) before it comes up to following or not
following the rules. If necessary, Bob will circle the boat -
especially if the ship in question is a tug and tow.

A good practice if it's practicable. And, of course, there is the issue
about restricted maneuverability, which one keep in mind. This comes up all
the time for cargo, tanker, tug, etc. situations out here.

We did have a close call once when crossing the Savannah River (motor
sailing). The ICW cuts across while large ships are going up and down
the river. (The same situation applies for the river in Jacksonville
FL, but the sight lines are better.)

There was a German warship coming in the river, and we could hear the
very southern pilot on the radio warning sailboats in the ICW. I saw
the superstructure of the ship (mostly the mast part) through the
trees, but did not immediately recognize it as a ship - I thought it
was just some funny kind of tree. There was another sailboat ahead of
us, and I thought the pilot was talking to them. He could only see
our mast, so he couldn't tell that the boat ahead of us was a
catamaran. [When I called Bob's attention to the funny 'tree', he did
recognize it as a ship.]

But when we came out into the river, we saw the warship a very short
distance away, and consequently we put on the power to get out of his
way and onto the other side of the channel.

Ferry encounter
 

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 01 Jul 2006 23:37:16 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:

Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels
change when they became official terrorist targets under the
protection of homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty
and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is
a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to
guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It
isn't a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the
center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below
cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was
proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The
ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change.
There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them
astern and I really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head
in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up
which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down
and began to lose rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a
lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us
intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on
the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and
unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think
that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their
draft really applied to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some
more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just
coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would
have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of
character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?

I can only think of three possibilities:

1) the ferry was using rule 9 of colregs.

2) a traffic seprartion zone is in effect (a chart would show that)

3) harbour regulations (would need to see them)

On the first and last one cited, I agree. On the traffic separation zone, I
don't think it would make a difference. Just because someone is using the
correct lane for their course, doesn't give them license to ignore the other
rules.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ferry encounter
 

Roger Long wrote:
Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels
change when they became official terrorist targets under the
protection of homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty
and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is
a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to
guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It
isn't a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the
center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below
cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was
proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The
ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change.
There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them
astern and I really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head
in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up
which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down
and began to lose rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a
lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us
intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on
the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and
unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think
that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their
draft really applied to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some
more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just
coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would
have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of
character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?

At least it was a lesser encounter than that which we experienced in May of
this year, with one of Her Majesty's Trident submarines, which despatched an
MOD outrider, an insolent bugger who lost no time in telling us to get out
of the sub's way, despite the fact that we had already tacked and were
heading directly away from said sub!

My post on this matter to uk.rec.sailing invoked a huge response, most of
which was directed at the Royal Navy's submarine service for their insolence
and intransigence, although a few ex-submariners did side with the sub's
captain.

I should add that we were in open water, with lots of room to manouever, no
"constrained by draft" channels, and took avoiding action almost as soon as
the sub hove into sight.

It would seem that might is right!

Dennis.

Ferry encounter
 

I pretty much agree with you and Tom in the other reply when it comes
to the large ferries on shuttle routes. I generally give a them a
clear and obvious course change well in advance even when they are the
stand on vessel. If they altered course for every sailboat in the
harbor, it would be chaos.

However, not the 65 feet in the original post. This is one of the
little boats that does excursions and services the outer islands.
Despite being nearly as wide as it is long and two decks high, it is
just a little and very maneuverable boat. There were no other boats
nearby, she was at half speed so schedule was clearly not an issue,
and two spokes of the wheel would have avoided a lot of work and
disruption below for me. No way she could have known the later part
but she could see that I was alone on deck and it was blowing hard.

By the time it was clear that she wasn't giving an inch, the rule for
the stand on vessel to maintain a predictable course was also coming
into play. If I'd tried to bear off under her just as she decided to
go behind me, I wouldn't have been able to avoid her. Even a tack
could have been dicey if she had made a last minute correction. She
proceeded exactly as if she had the right of way.

The best possibility I can think of, other than sheer arrogance or
total ignorance of the surrounding water depths, is that she thought I
had my engine running and was therefore a powerboat which would have
made us burdened. A lot of people start running their engines around
here when it starts to get as gnarly as it was working up to at the
time.

--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

"Jack Dale" wrote

I can only think of three possibilities:

1) the ferry was using rule 9 of colregs.

Here is the chart with the ferry (excursion boat would be a more
accurate description in this case although it is operated by a ferry
line) shown in red and our course in black. I just read rule 9 and I
would be curious if anyone would think that it applies to a 6 foot
draft vessel near high tide in this case.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Encounter.jpg


2) a traffic seprartion zone is in effect (a chart would show that)

Not applicable.

3) harbour regulations (would need to see them)

We were outside the harbor.

--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

Rosalie B. wrote in
:

There was a German warship coming in the river, and we could hear the
very southern pilot on the radio warning sailboats in the ICW. I saw
the superstructure of the ship (mostly the mast part) through the
trees, but did not immediately recognize it as a ship - I thought it
was just some funny kind of tree. There was another sailboat ahead of
us, and I thought the pilot was talking to them. He could only see
our mast, so he couldn't tell that the boat ahead of us was a
catamaran. [When I called Bob's attention to the funny 'tree', he did
recognize it as a ship.]

But when we came out into the river, we saw the warship a very short
distance away, and consequently we put on the power to get out of his
way and onto the other side of the channel.



What a fantastic example for the use of AIS if both boat and ship were so
equipped. You and he would have been plotting each other for 10 miles so
better synchronization between you would have avoided any conflict. He
would have been able to call you BY YOUR NAME AND CALL, not just "sailboat
with a mast sticking up". You would have known, not only something was
there long before you could see it but WHAT is was and WHO it was and his
speed and course for planning purposes.....

The sooner every boat is on AIS, the better for everyone.....

Ferry encounter
 

On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 00:23:11 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:



On the first and last one cited, I agree. On the traffic separation zone, I
don't think it would make a difference. Just because someone is using the
correct lane for their course, doesn't give them license to ignore the other
rules.


That could depend on the application of Rule 10 (j)

(j) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel
shall not impede the safe passage of a power driven vessel following a
traffic lane.

This would not apply as Roger's chart does not show a TSZ.

Jack

_________________________________________
Jack Dale
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor
CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
_________________________________________

Ferry encounter
 

Having sailed the Great Lakes for some 60 years I have had ample
experience with the solid stream of freighters... They don't turn,
period... Usually there is not even anyone visible in the bridge
windows...
I long ago developed the attitude that I will immediately turn away as
soon as I see a converging track developing... I am not burning
hundreds of dollars an hour of fuel... I can turn on a dime... I like
tacking... I am sailing for pleasure... Being ground up underneath a
400 foot cement hauler is not my idea of pleasure...
And, likely the person on the bridge (if any) does not speak english
and doesn't particularily like 'rich', 'ugly americans'... Just a fact
of life for a yachtsman... Just because you think the Colregs say you
don't have to turn, doesn't mean you shouldn't...
If I were pulling a fish net or dredging, I would ignore the big guy
and let him make the quivering explanations in the Admiralty Court as
to why he ran someone down... I'm not, so I give way...

denny

Ferry encounter
 

That's pretty much my attitude but this "ferry" was smaller and as
maneuverable as a lot of the power yachts in the marinas. Just
having the paint and logo of the larger boats in the fleet doesn't
change the physics. Having just tacked a 32 foot boat alone few
minutes earlier and gotten settled down at the end of a long day with
the weather going downhill fast, I was sort of in the net towing
category you describe.

--

Roger Long



"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...
Having sailed the Great Lakes for some 60 years I have had ample
experience with the solid stream of freighters... They don't turn,
period... Usually there is not even anyone visible in the bridge
windows...
I long ago developed the attitude that I will immediately turn away
as
soon as I see a converging track developing... I am not burning
hundreds of dollars an hour of fuel... I can turn on a dime... I
like
tacking... I am sailing for pleasure... Being ground up underneath a
400 foot cement hauler is not my idea of pleasure...
And, likely the person on the bridge (if any) does not speak english
and doesn't particularily like 'rich', 'ugly americans'... Just a
fact
of life for a yachtsman... Just because you think the Colregs say
you
don't have to turn, doesn't mean you shouldn't...
If I were pulling a fish net or dredging, I would ignore the big guy
and let him make the quivering explanations in the Admiralty Court
as
to why he ran someone down... I'm not, so I give way...

denny

Ferry encounter
 

For the conditions you are discussing, there have been no changes (BTW
"commercial vessels" is not a class of vessel under the Rules).
The reasons for the ferry's actions could involve a number of possibilities
but none would hold up in court, so I think I'd just put it down to one of
those meeting situations we all come across that confirm the need to be
ready to act on our own, be we "give way" or "standon".
One point....... not being able to see someone in a wheelhouse from your
perspective, does not necessarily mean they are not there.
Much depends on the layout, location of the helmstation, etc. . Personally,
I treat all vessels as if no one is in control.

otn

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels change
when they became official terrorist targets under the protection of
homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty and
increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is a large
anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to guide the
largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It isn't a channel
in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below cleaning
and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was proceeding
down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The ferry was
going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change. There was
plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them astern and I
really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head in the pilot
house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up which took some
finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down and began to lose
rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a lot
like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us intently
without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and unobstructed
water, I found myself wondering if she could really think that the rule
about vessels in a channel and constrained by their draft really applied
to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some more
dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just coming up
to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would have avoided
any possibility of contact. This was quite out of character for the
outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?


--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

"Roger Long" wrote in message news:

Here is the chart with the ferry (excursion boat would be a more
accurate description in this case although it is operated by a ferry
line) shown in red and our course in black. I just read rule 9 and I
would be curious if anyone would think that it applies to a 6 foot
draft vessel near high tide in this case.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Encounter.jpg


Roger,

From your chart, he/she was definitely following a marked channel. However,
with that draft they were in no way restricted to the channel.
1. Some boaters and especially ferry operators following a normal route,
tend to be "anal" about staying in the channel or along their prescribed
route.

2. Looking at your arrows for your and the other vessels headings, I can see
a possible view that could lead to a misread of your intentions from the
ferry's view..... i.e. that you would soon come left to continue down the
channel.

3. Once again, there are so many possibilities for their
action...............

otn

Ferry encounter
 

Unless the vessel was following an designated traffic lane, you had right of
way. Argh! Man the guns! Away the boarding party!
MMC

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Say, did the right of way rules for commercial passenger vessels
change when they became official terrorist targets under the
protection of homeland security?

The ferry crews in this part of the world have always seemed very
competent and courteous to me and I've had a number of professional
dealings with them. We were finishing up a day sail today in shifty
and increasing winds that shortly after turned into a squall. There is
a large anchorage that has a pair of red and greens in it that used to
guide the largest vessels up to a long abandoned navy oil depot. It
isn't a channel in the normal sense but marks the deepest area in the
center.

We were close hauled and I was alone on deck with everyone below
cleaning and straightening up. One of the little 65 foot ferries was
proceeding down the bay through the buoys as if it were a channel. The
ferry was going slowly, we were converging, the bearing didn't change.
There was plenty of room for a minor correction that would take them
astern and I really didn't want to tack. I started looking for a head
in the pilot house and couldn't see any faces so I finally luffed up
which took some finessing in the shifty conditions as we slowed down
and began to lose rudder authority.

The ferry passed about 50 feet in front of us and a lady who looked a
lot like she might be the captain stuck her head out and studied us
intently without waving as if she was trying to read the numbers on
the bow.

As I sailed on over the next half mile of 20 + foot deep and
unobstructed water, I found myself wondering if she could really think
that the rule about vessels in a channel and constrained by their
draft really applied to her.

No question that we would have hit if I hadn't luffed or taken some
more dramatic action. She proceeded like she was on autopilot. Just
coming up to normal speed or a 10 degree course change early on would
have avoided any possibility of contact. This was quite out of
character for the outfit. I wonder what she was thinking?


--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

Another factor may be the area you sail in. My home port has traffic
lanes marked in 'magenta colour' on the charts. Pleasure boats are
supposed to cross them at right angles as quickly as possible.
Most people don't...but if a major commercial vessel..such as a post
panamax containership comes in...we get out of the way.

Ferry encounter
 

I wish my point could point well enough to have come left. I'd win
every race I entered!

The easiest action for the ferry to have taken would have been a
slight diversion to the middle of the channel. There was not other
traffic that would have been a factor.

She may have assumed that I would tack to stay in the channel so as to
keep at least 20' of water under my keel:)

--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

I carry charts and try to be well aware of things like that.

--

Roger Long



"Don White" wrote in message
...
Another factor may be the area you sail in. My home port has traffic
lanes marked in 'magenta colour' on the charts. Pleasure boats are
supposed to cross them at right angles as quickly as possible.
Most people don't...but if a major commercial vessel..such as a post
panamax containership comes in...we get out of the way.

Ferry encounter
 

"Jack Dale" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 00:23:11 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:



On the first and last one cited, I agree. On the traffic separation zone,
I
don't think it would make a difference. Just because someone is using the
correct lane for their course, doesn't give them license to ignore the
other
rules.


That could depend on the application of Rule 10 (j)

(j) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel
shall not impede the safe passage of a power driven vessel following a
traffic lane.

This would not apply as Roger's chart does not show a TSZ.

Jack

_________________________________________
Jack Dale
ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor
CYA Advanced Cruising Instructor
http://www.swiftsuresailing.com
_________________________________________

Interesting... There doesn't appear to be any language about size of vessel
using the separation zone. I can just imagine a skiff claiming rights. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ferry encounter
 

400' ships have status over a sailing vessel in a restricted situation. I
don't know about the Great Lakes, but I've been in an overtaking situation
with a tanker in the Pacific Ocean. Being prudent, when we spotted her
coming up on the stern, we made ready to change course. However, the tanker
changed course and went around us, as they should according to the rules.

You're right, just because you have rights doesn't mean being foolish.
However, they're not following the rules and should be contacted. What's
wrong with hailing them? I don't think this has anything to do with being a
rich or ugly American. I'm sure the CG wouldn't be averse to reminding them
of their obligations.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Denny" wrote in message
oups.com...
Having sailed the Great Lakes for some 60 years I have had ample
experience with the solid stream of freighters... They don't turn,
period... Usually there is not even anyone visible in the bridge
windows...
I long ago developed the attitude that I will immediately turn away as
soon as I see a converging track developing... I am not burning
hundreds of dollars an hour of fuel... I can turn on a dime... I like
tacking... I am sailing for pleasure... Being ground up underneath a
400 foot cement hauler is not my idea of pleasure...
And, likely the person on the bridge (if any) does not speak english
and doesn't particularily like 'rich', 'ugly americans'... Just a fact
of life for a yachtsman... Just because you think the Colregs say you
don't have to turn, doesn't mean you shouldn't...
If I were pulling a fish net or dredging, I would ignore the big guy
and let him make the quivering explanations in the Admiralty Court as
to why he ran someone down... I'm not, so I give way...

denny

Ferry encounter
 

Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are no
special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for
approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a ferry
that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If there are,
I'd love to see a link.

I looked on the Washington State ferry system web site but couldn't find
anything. I've emailed them to ask about it, and I'll post their response
when I hear from them.

Tom Dacon

Ferry encounter
 

"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...

Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are
no special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for
approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a
ferry that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If
there are, I'd love to see a link.

I looked on the Washington State ferry system web site but couldn't find
anything. I've emailed them to ask about it, and I'll post their response
when I hear from them.

Tom Dacon

Tom,

I've been looking on the CG site also, but can't find anything. But, you
never know of course. I know I have to stay a bit further away from
military, cruise liners, tankers, etc. But, why the heck would I want to be
close to those...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ferry encounter
 

Here's what I got from the Washington State ferry system. It's an advisory
from the Port of Seattle. It looks like (paraphrasing the relevant
paragraph) the Coast Guard has established, for Puget Sound, security zones
around larger passenger vessels such as ferries and cruise ships. Vessels
should slow to minimum speed while within 500 yards, and mantain at least
100 yards distance unless they have obtained permission to approach. To get
permission to approach within the zone, among other things they can contact
the patrol or the master of the passenger vessel on VHF 16 or 13. Civil
penalties up to $27,500 for violations.

Here's the link:
http://www.portseattle.org/about/sec...security.shtml

When this was being publicized, I imagined that it was nation-wide, but all
I know about for sure today is Puget Sound. No doubt the Coast Guard in each
jurisdiction has made their own decisions about doing something like this if
they felt it was warranted. So this is the situation in Puget Sound anyway -
I don't what the situation might be where Roger sails.

Regards,
Tom Dacon

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
...

Roger, despite what the others have said so far, Don and Tom, there are
no special rules that I'm aware of regarding ferries. There are some for
approaching large vessels, but I can't see how they would apply to a
ferry that can have twice or three times your speed on open water. If
there are, I'd love to see a link.

I looked on the Washington State ferry system web site but couldn't find
anything. I've emailed them to ask about it, and I'll post their response
when I hear from them.

Tom Dacon

Tom,

I've been looking on the CG site also, but can't find anything. But, you
never know of course. I know I have to stay a bit further away from
military, cruise liners, tankers, etc. But, why the heck would I want to
be close to those...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ferry encounter
 

"Tom Dacon" wrote

(snip) Vessels should slow to minimum speed while within 500 yards,
and maintain at least 100 yards distance unless they have obtained
permission to approach.

I don't what the situation might be where Roger sails.

Well, we don't have anything similar that I'm aware of. With a 1000
yard wide harbor, it would be chaos it we did. There usually is a
boat with a blinking blue light just off the stern of any cruise ships
that are in town (room for one only) but I've never seen them chase
anyone.

There was a lot of amusement a year or so ago when the USCG was
escorting the ferries back and forth. I don't know whether it was the
laughter or the fuel bills that ended that foolishness.

--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
"Tom Dacon" wrote

(snip) Vessels should slow to minimum speed while within 500 yards, and
maintain at least 100 yards distance unless they have obtained permission
to approach.

I don't what the situation might be where Roger sails.

Well, we don't have anything similar that I'm aware of. With a 1000 yard
wide harbor, it would be chaos it we did. There usually is a boat with a
blinking blue light just off the stern of any cruise ships that are in
town (room for one only) but I've never seen them chase anyone.

There was a lot of amusement a year or so ago when the USCG was escorting
the ferries back and forth. I don't know whether it was the laughter or
the fuel bills that ended that foolishness.

--

Roger Long

Interesting link. Of course, if the ferry is approaching you, you'll have
limited ability to get to the distance requirement. They're talking about
ships over 100 feet in length, so that wouldn't hold for the ferries around
here. Also, anything that large would be restricted in maneuverability in
the channels.

They never escorted the ferries here.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ferry encounter
 

Without knowing all the particulars (i.e., being there) it's hard to tell
who did what to whom.
At any rate, my guess is that it was just one of those circumstances we may
all run into that's mainly kept in the memory banks for future possible
incidents, where we can now think of another possibility of what may happen.



"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
I wish my point could point well enough to have come left. I'd win every
race I entered!

The easiest action for the ferry to have taken would have been a slight
diversion to the middle of the channel. There was not other traffic that
would have been a factor.

She may have assumed that I would tack to stay in the channel so as to
keep at least 20' of water under my keel:)

--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 12:36:09 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:


Here is the chart with the ferry (excursion boat would be a more
accurate description in this case although it is operated by a ferry
line) shown in red and our course in black. I just read rule 9 and I
would be curious if anyone would think that it applies to a 6 foot
draft vessel near high tide in this case.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Encounter.jpg


If she thought you were motorsailing she would have been the stand-on
vessel.
Only explanation that fits the facts. Hard to judge her emotional
state. :o)
Mark E. Williams

Ferry encounter
 

"Maynard G. Krebbs" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 12:36:09 GMT, "Roger Long"
wrote:


Here is the chart with the ferry (excursion boat would be a more
accurate description in this case although it is operated by a ferry
line) shown in red and our course in black. I just read rule 9 and I
would be curious if anyone would think that it applies to a 6 foot
draft vessel near high tide in this case.

http://home.maine.rr.com/rlma/Encounter.jpg


If she thought you were motorsailing she would have been the stand-on
vessel.
Only explanation that fits the facts. Hard to judge her emotional
state. :o)
Mark E. Williams

Unfortunately, it's not good enough to think that. One is obligated to avoid
a collision, and it doesn't matter if you think you're right and don't.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Ferry encounter
 

Roger Long wrote:
I wish my point could point well enough to have come left. I'd win
every race I entered!

The easiest action for the ferry to have taken would have been a
slight diversion to the middle of the channel. There was not other
traffic that would have been a factor.

She may have assumed that I would tack to stay in the channel so as to
keep at least 20' of water under my keel:)

Roger,
It looks to me that the ferry was burdened. I would have sounded 5
short blasts and called the ferry on the radio and asked about the
ferry's intentions as soon as I realized that the ferry was not going to
mnvre in accordance with the rules. Time permitting of course.

Gary

Ferry encounter
 

"Gary"

Roger,
It looks to me that the ferry was burdened. I would have sounded 5
short blasts and called the ferry on the radio and asked about the
ferry's intentions as soon as I realized that the ferry was not
going to mnvre in accordance with the rules. Time permitting of
course.

You must be a powerboater. Short BLASTS? You mean five short little
peeps (which I doubt they could have heard), if I could have taken one
hand off the wheel in conditions in which the boat had become
seriously overpowered due to the wind increasing very rapidly. I was
lugging until I could get to the lower traffic zone to reef. I was
just holding it together and this was happening too fast to have
started a radio exchange, even if I could have spared a hand.

Despite the number of people on the boat, I was essentially single
handed. If situation awareness counts for anything, the ferry skipper
(or skipperette) should have been able to look at the conditions, one
person on deck, rail in the water, main eased, and figured that maybe
I had my hands full and couldn't be counted on to do any fancy
maneuvers.

She's actually damn lucky I am a good enough helmsman to have been
able to carry a controlled luff under those circumstances. If I'd hit
her or taken the rig out coming aback while trying a last minute
avoidance of a burdened vessel standing on, you can be damn sure I
would have been going after her license.

--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

"Roger Long" wrote:

"Gary"

Roger,
It looks to me that the ferry was burdened. I would have sounded 5
short blasts and called the ferry on the radio and asked about the
ferry's intentions as soon as I realized that the ferry was not
going to mnvre in accordance with the rules. Time permitting of
course.

You must be a powerboater. Short BLASTS? You mean five short little
peeps (which I doubt they could have heard), if I could have taken one
hand off the wheel in conditions in which the boat had become
seriously overpowered due to the wind increasing very rapidly. I was
lugging until I could get to the lower traffic zone to reef. I was
just holding it together and this was happening too fast to have
started a radio exchange, even if I could have spared a hand.

Despite the number of people on the boat, I was essentially single
handed. If situation awareness counts for anything, the ferry skipper
(or skipperette) should have been able to look at the conditions, one
person on deck, rail in the water, main eased, and figured that maybe
I had my hands full and couldn't be counted on to do any fancy
maneuvers.

She's actually damn lucky I am a good enough helmsman to have been
able to carry a controlled luff under those circumstances. If I'd hit
her or taken the rig out coming aback while trying a last minute
avoidance of a burdened vessel standing on, you can be damn sure I
would have been going after her license.

I would anyway. Or at least file a complaint.

Ferry encounter
 

"Rosalie B." wrote

I would [go after her license] anyway. Or at least file a
complaint.

Well, I'm sure she (and I only say "she" because it was a female head
that stuck out the window to look back at me, could have been a
girlfirend, crew, or trainee) didn't get this far in her career
without understanding the rules well enough to have been saying to
herself, "Yikes, if that idiot had hit me, I wouldn't have a leg to
stand on." The caliber of the ferry district crews seems high enough
to me (a former consultant to them) that I don't think a complaint and
the flurry of paper surrounding it is needed to drive the point home.
I may feel different if I see more of this.

As a former pilot (well, still one officially but self grounded), I
know that we all screw up occasionally, even when the consequences are
more endangering to ourselves than a slap on the wrist from the Coast
Guard.

Since this incident though I've been watching the behavior of other
vessels more analytically; also myself. I think there is some basis
the idea mentioned here somewhere that electronics have put a lot of
people on the water who haven't gotta clue. Loss of the expectation
that others will follow the rules changes behavior.

The ferry captain may well have been thinking, "This bozo will tack
like all the others do." I, in fact, give way to the CBIT vessels with
early, clear, course changes 99% of the time because they have a job
to do, are on schedules, and I like to handle my boat. Just as I type
this, a very plausible explanation occurs to me.

I sail a lot and my boat and behaviour could easily be as well known
to the ferry captains as they are to me. "She" may well have been
thinking, "Oh, it's that guy, he'll tack." Meanwhile, I'm thinking,
"There's a professional in that pilothouse, I can count on them to do
the right thing." If it had been a 50 foot seaway or a dragger, you
can be sure I would have tacked. This is all pointing to something a
lot more subtle and complex than knowledge of the rules of the road.

--

Roger Long

Ferry encounter
 

Roger Long wrote:
"Gary"

Roger,
It looks to me that the ferry was burdened. I would have sounded 5
short blasts and called the ferry on the radio and asked about the
ferry's intentions as soon as I realized that the ferry was not
going to mnvre in accordance with the rules. Time permitting of
course.


You must be a powerboater. Short BLASTS? You mean five short little
peeps (which I doubt they could have heard), if I could have taken one
hand off the wheel in conditions in which the boat had become
seriously overpowered due to the wind increasing very rapidly. I was
lugging until I could get to the lower traffic zone to reef. I was
just holding it together and this was happening too fast to have
started a radio exchange, even if I could have spared a hand.

Despite the number of people on the boat, I was essentially single
handed. If situation awareness counts for anything, the ferry skipper
(or skipperette) should have been able to look at the conditions, one
person on deck, rail in the water, main eased, and figured that maybe
I had my hands full and couldn't be counted on to do any fancy
maneuvers.

She's actually damn lucky I am a good enough helmsman to have been
able to carry a controlled luff under those circumstances. If I'd hit
her or taken the rig out coming aback while trying a last minute
avoidance of a burdened vessel standing on, you can be damn sure I
would have been going after her license.

No I'm not a power boater. Even though the ferry appears to have been
the burdened vessel, you are still required by the R of R to go through
the steps of indicating you don't understand her movements etc. I keep
an air horn and handheld VHF in the cockpit just for that reason.

How far ahead of you did the ferry pass? Maybe her appreciation of the
situation was different from your. Her ARPA may have indicated a safe
CPA astern (one that the ferry was comfortable with) while you were
eyeballing it.

Gary

Ferry encounter
 

"Gary" wrote

What you are saying here is you only adhere to the rules when you
want to and the rest of the boats on the water know you do that?
What about the rule that requires you to stand on? Maybe you have
inadvertently created the confusion by allowing some vessels to pass
while demanding your rights with this one?

Not at all. I'm quite cognizant of the need for the stand on vessel
to behave in a predictable fashion. Once a situation has developed to
the point that the burdened vessel needs to make a correction in
course I religiously go straight and steady.

When I give way to the ferries, I do it well in advance of it's
becoming a crossing situation and do it with a clear and often
exaggerated course change to make my intentions clear. This is done
well in advance of it becoming an encounter. Thinking about it
further, I probably do this far enough outside their zone of concern
that I kind of doubt that the notice. After all, I know exactly what
their route is likely to be.

Still, the point about creating confusion is an interesting one. I
see it more in terms of everyone's aggregate behavior though. Maybe
it would be better if everyone insisted on their right of way. In a
small busy harbor, though, you are often burdened and stand on at the
same time to different vessels.

--

Roger Long