Dual filter setup pix sought
 

Skip:
I am assembling my fuel system now after many changes. What got me on the
right track was to write out a mission statement of what I wanted to be able
to do.
Switch between filters on the fly.
Switch between 2 fuel pumps.
Polish fuel while engine is running.
Pump from a jerry can thru filter to tank (fill) or engine (get home on a
jerry can).
So I have 2 fuel sources that feed either of 2 filters that are pumped by
either of 2 pumps.
One filter/pump can feed the engine while the other circulates and polishes
the contents of the tank perferably in a good stirring sea to get the crap
and water off the bottom of the tank or the second filter/pump can fill the
tank from a hose led to the cockpit. No more pooring or spilling.
If the fuel in the tank is unuseable run from jerry cans.
Also hand priming bulbs on both and a small clear filter on the jerry can
hose to inspec the new fuel.
All this is at a price and the UPS girl is starting to bitch.
- Allen

Dual filter setup pix sought
 

I recently completed the installation of two racor filters. It took 8 shut
off valves. I can draw either filter from either (of the two) fuel tanks. I
can select filter and tanks while running. Haven't tried to change a filter
while running yet.

Dual filter setup pix sought
 

Skip Gundlach wrote:
As I work my way back from the bow (the bulkhead forward of the
saloon), being almost finished in there, my thoughts turn to what's
ahead (or behind/astern, as you prefer).

I succeeded in buying a second Racor on eBay, and two mounted 2-way
valves at a flea market, but would prefer to not have to reinvent the
wheel, as I'm sure there are many here who have done it already.

I considered an already-built dual system, a standard Racor part
number, but it was prohibitively expensive. Theirs, of course, has a
single valve which controls all functions, and a vacuum guage.

Can anyone point me to how to make two separate filters set up in
parallel with the least amount of fuss about it?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/p7rb4 - NOTE:new URL! The vessel as Tehamana, as we
bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely
nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing,
messing-about-in-boats; messing about in boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter,
that's the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never
get anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to
do, and you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."

Skip -

Whatever you do, remember that you are going to be messing with the
valves after being awakened from a deep sleep by a crewmember who is not
certain which of the valves to turn... and in the middle of the night,
in a seaway, you may not either - especially when the engine is
stuttering. It is certainly true that with a pump or two and 10 or more
valves, you can set up for almost anything. But will you get it right
in the middle of the night? Years after you designed the system?

"Complexity is the enemy of Reliability"
- Salnick's First Law


bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

Dual filter setup pix sought
 

On Tue, 09 May 2006 13:17:35 -0700, RW Salnick
wrote:

It is certainly true that with a pump or two and 10 or more
valves, you can set up for almost anything. But will you get it right
in the middle of the night? Years after you designed the system?

Good points. Speaking from personal experience, it is very easy to
open or close the wrong valve in the heat of battle (big seas,
sputtering engine, etc.). That is a bad time to accidently introduce
air into the fuel system. Don't ask me how I know. :-)

In addition to keeping things simple and intuitive, it is important to
rigorously follow a tried and true procedure so that no ad libbing is
required. It is also worthwhile to invest in a nice set of engraved,
color coded labels for non-obvious valve positions.

Dual filter setup pix sought
 

That is why I used only two 3 way valves. When the engine starts sputtering
you open a little access hatch under the helmsman and turn them the opposite
direction they are in. Then you can change filters at your leisure. Even
if over time the diesel etches the valve surfaces the leakage between
filters will be minimal and not effect their operation.

There are 3 other valves below deck that allow bypassing the day tank and
drawing directly from the port or starboard storage tanks but they are
clearly marked and only needed if the low fuel alarm on the day tank or the
transfer pump fails.

The day tank holds 24 hours of fuel at normal cruise. All fuel entering the
day tank goes through a pair of 1000FG filters with 10 micron filters and
water sensors in the bowls so all the fuel is filtered rather than a
recirculating polishing system that filters the same fuel over and over.

Now for the complicated part: I programmed a microprocessor to track the
gallons drawn from each storage tank and the content of the day tank but it
has nothing to do with the ability to transfer fuel. If it gets fried the
only thing important I loose is the low fuel alarm on the day tank.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 May 2006 13:17:35 -0700, RW Salnick
wrote:

It is certainly true that with a pump or two and 10 or more
valves, you can set up for almost anything. But will you get it right
in the middle of the night? Years after you designed the system?

Good points. Speaking from personal experience, it is very easy to
open or close the wrong valve in the heat of battle (big seas,
sputtering engine, etc.). That is a bad time to accidently introduce
air into the fuel system. Don't ask me how I know. :-)

In addition to keeping things simple and intuitive, it is important to
rigorously follow a tried and true procedure so that no ad libbing is
required. It is also worthwhile to invest in a nice set of engraved,
color coded labels for non-obvious valve positions.

Dual filter setup pix sought
 

I too worry about this. I started wanting to put all the valves in row,
numbered. With a set of codes for different senarios. (1off, 2off, 3on, 4on)
etc.
But I went with a series of "H" paterns that let you trace the open valves
with your finger.
I hope this works out in the end.
- Allen

Dual filter setup pix sought
 

That's what I like about what I did. To change filters from the same tank,
one valve, if you want to isolate the restricted filter, two valves. If
you want to change tanks and go to the other filter, 6 valves.

--

Dual filter setup pix sought
 

On Tue, 9 May 2006 17:35:54 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

The day tank holds 24 hours of fuel at normal cruise. All fuel entering the
day tank goes through a pair of 1000FG filters with 10 micron filters and
water sensors in the bowls so all the fuel is filtered rather than a
recirculating polishing system that filters the same fuel over and over.

I would argue for using 2 micron filters. Get the crud out at the
earliest possible point in the system. 1000FGs should last almost
forever feeding a sailboat engine. I have them out in front of a pair
of Detroit 671s and they are typically good for 500 to 1000 gallons
between element changes (2 micron filters).

Dual filter setup pix sought
 

I have to reiterate based on over 30 years of filtration engineering
experience: If you are in need to screw around with filters then you
havent done your proper maintenance by periodically opening and
cleaning out the fuel tank .... gums, goos, and incomplete
polymerizations of 'old dead fuel'. A filter is simply NOT a
substitute for proper and routine tank maintenance.

A 2 micrometer filter in an in line filter train is simply gross
overkill that will eventually and needlessly fatigue the diaphragm of
your mechanical lift pump. You simply CAN NOT substitute the same size
(surface area) filter from a 15µM to a 2µM filter without adjusting for
the opering differential pressure across such filters. Filters are
sized according to flow rate vs. operating differential pressure - get
the technical specs from the manufacture before you 'intuitively' screw
arround and make a needless & complicated 'mess'. A 2µM filter will
demand approx. 7X the surface area to remain at the same operating
differential pressure of a 15µM. The service life penalty is about
25:1 without adjusting for increased surface area (the permeability of
a 2µM is about 7X LESS than a 15µM). 15-20µM being 'the most damaging
(hard) particle for an internal combustion engine.
Most particles found in fouled fuel oil tanks are typically
agglomerated (stuck together) very small particles that when trapped
on a filter media and subjected to large pressure differences across a
filter, simply 'extrude' deeper into the filter media (thus blocking
it) or simply extrude all the way through. these 'particles' are the
gums, etc. that dont burn very well and pass through the combustion
chamber only to 'coke' in hot exhaust manifold or water injection
elbow. Filtration is NOT the solution; constant maintenance (cleaning
the tank) and only using FRESH fuel is the obvious solution. High
usage of filters with fuel oil is a SYMPTOM. A blocked filter is
telling you you have a dirty/fouled tank.

BTW
I run an independent constant recirculation polishing loop @ 5-10µM @
~3 GPM and the inline delivery system only needs a (properly sized) 2µM
followed by a grossly undersized 2µM 'choke' filter. All the 'work' is
accomplished by the CHEAP recirculation/polishing filter elements.
The system works so well that I am removing all the complicated in line
parallel filters, valves, etc. etc. I do clean out the tank every
other year.
I NEVER fill the tank unless I NEED that much oil. Condensation (water
-oil phase equilibrium, actually) uptake of water is NEVER a problem as
I use a desiccant vapor trap on the vent. I only have onboard what I
need and a little for reserve. I never buy from a marina and usually
haul in the oil from a truck stop (cheaper and FRESHER). Fresh oil is
important as in summer condition diesel only last about 6 months before
it begins to 'particulate', etc.
(I dont pay for my filter elements and professionaly "Im supposed to be
a 'filter expert"). Filters are NOT teeny screen doors, there's much
more to filters than retention rating ( & most 'ratings' are arbitrary
BS).
;-)


In article , Wayne.B
wrote:

On Tue, 09 May 2006 13:17:35 -0700, RW Salnick
wrote:

It is certainly true that with a pump or two and 10 or more
valves, you can set up for almost anything. But will you get it right
in the middle of the night? Years after you designed the system?

Good points. Speaking from personal experience, it is very easy to
open or close the wrong valve in the heat of battle (big seas,
sputtering engine, etc.). That is a bad time to accidently introduce
air into the fuel system. Don't ask me how I know. :-)

In addition to keeping things simple and intuitive, it is important to
rigorously follow a tried and true procedure so that no ad libbing is
required. It is also worthwhile to invest in a nice set of engraved,
color coded labels for non-obvious valve positions.

Dual filter setup pix sought
 

On Wed, 10 May 2006 03:27:42 GMT, Rich Hampel
wrote:

Filtration is NOT the solution; constant maintenance (cleaning
the tank) and only using FRESH fuel is the obvious solution. High
usage of filters with fuel oil is a SYMPTOM. A blocked filter is
telling you you have a dirty/fouled tank.

All well and good in a perfect world. Unfortunately in the real world
of real boats the tanks are usually almost inaccessible for proper
cleaning, and the concept of FRESH fuel is problematic at best. Most
of us who have put in elaborate filtration systems ahead of the
engines have learned the hard way at one time or another, and are not
eager for a repeat experience.

Based on personal and anecdotal experience, fuel problems are rivaled
only by cooling system issues as a cause of diesel engine problems.