Hi, a few questions for those of you In The Know,

1971 Ranger 26 (Gary Mull). Cockpit drains forward to two drain hoses
that go straight
to through-hulls.

Required: install ball valves or seacocks (as there are none now, and
insurance blah blah
blah) and replace hose.

Can anyone walk me through the process? I'm assuming the through
hulls are bronze and threaded internally, looks to be about 1 1/2" hose
with double hose clamps at the hull connection. (I'll be verifying the
through hull threading this weekend).

So -

- new clamps - 304 enough, or 316 SS? freshwater use exclusively.

- what kind of hose is recommended? clear plastic w/ reinforce
mesh?

- ball valve or seacock? everyone's using ball valves these days
but West
Marine says no no use seacock

- what kind of valve? bronze ok assuming through hull is bronze?
straight
threading or just match the through hull threading?

(is there any chance it's brass? i'm guessing no but not sure..
probably
would have corroded by now?)

- teflon tape sealant on the threading? or something else?

Anything else I'm missing here (yeah I have some spruce plugs
standing by)?

Thanks very much for any comments, advice or procedures. I'm pretty
new to this area and this is a fairly critical thing to be messing
around with.

-Colin

Hi, a few questions for those of you In The Know,

1971 Ranger 26 (Gary Mull). Cockpit drains forward to two drain hoses
that go straight
to through-hulls.

-Colin

Hi Colin:

If I remember correctly, which I haven't been doing very well lately,
Old Ranger deck -cockpit drains empty to through hulls located BELOW
the waterline?
Is that true in your case?

Bob

Hi Bob, yeah that's the case here, these drains are basically bottom of
the boat , most definitely below the waterline. Boat is on the hard, on
the cradle, so no concerns about doing this while afloat.

Thanks,

-Colin

Hi Colin:

Good to hear your boat is on land. With the through hulls, as you said,
on the bottom I can see why the insurance folks want a valve there.
Lets face it, with that set up a leaky hose will sink your boat.

Here is the problem my Ranger friend had. He leaves his boat in the
water al year. It freezes long and hard where he keeps the boat. So
here is the question: So he closes the two 1 1/2" through hull valves
for the the winter. But wait............ those are the cockpit drains.
What happens if the through hull valves freeze, crack and let the water
in? So close them and drain them or put antifreeze in the hose and
valve so they wont freeze... But wait where will the cockpit water
drain?? He does not want the cockpit to fill with water and spill into
the cabin so he leaves the valves open and risks having them freeze,
bust, and flood the boat?!?!?!?

Do you live in FL? No....? if it freezes haul your boat for the
wihter.

Sounds as though you need some basic through hull information. Try
this website. there are lots of other places with good How-To info too.


http://www.yachtsurvey.com/

Or go to your local Big book store and start reading."Boat Maint."
books.
Bob

wrote:
Hi, a few questions for those of you In The Know,

1971 Ranger 26 (Gary Mull). Cockpit drains forward to two drain hoses
that go straight
to through-hulls.


IMHO that's a rather poor design. Would it be feasible to
replace the hoses & valves with fiberglass tubes?


Required: install ball valves or seacocks (as there are none now, and
insurance blah blah
blah) and replace hose.

Can anyone walk me through the process? I'm assuming the through
hulls are bronze and threaded internally, looks to be about 1 1/2" hose
with double hose clamps at the hull connection. (I'll be verifying the
through hull threading this weekend).


Assume nothing until you disassmble what's in place now, and
see. Usually thru-hulls like this have what paradoxically
called Straight Pipe Thread, which is a parallel thread
intended to mate to tapered pipe thread. A poor compromise,
it's not as strong as either and it's relatively hard to get
a good seal.


So -

- new clamps - 304 enough, or 316 SS? freshwater use exclusively.


Use 316

- what kind of hose is recommended? clear plastic w/ reinforce
mesh?


No, use the reinforced hose rated for engine intake. It's
below the waterline, right?


- ball valve or seacock? everyone's using ball valves these days
but West
Marine says no no use seacock


A "seacock" is not really a good descriptor of a specific
type of valve. I tend to think of a flanged plug-cock valve
as a seacock, but these are rather old-fashioned (although
still great for this service, but they're expensive to make
and thus hard to find in today's bubble-pak world).

Anyway, ball valves are workable if they're the right
material, they're cheap & readily available.


- what kind of valve? bronze ok assuming through hull is bronze?
straight
threading or just match the through hull threading?


The best thing to do would be to get a flange fitting that
is matched to the thru-hull threads, and screw it down all
the way against the hull, and then mount the seacock valve
on that flange.

But that's a lot of trouble & expense, it's very rarely
done, and *if* the threads are matched & put together well,
then they seem to be strong enough for most service.



(is there any chance it's brass? i'm guessing no but not sure..
probably
would have corroded by now?)


Brass doesn't corrode, it turn lighter color & gets very
brittle. Try scraping it hard with something made of tool steel.

- teflon tape sealant on the threading? or something else?


I use teflon tape, myself, but takes scrupulous attention to
detail. I've rarely seen anybody else do it right except
field technicians (and they mess up sometimes). The average
person should not monkey with teflon tape, there's too much
that can go wrong (perhaps I should seek sponsorship from a
thread-dope company).



Anything else I'm missing here (yeah I have some spruce plugs
standing by)?


This will be considered heresy by some, but duct tape & a
garbage bag will seal up holes & leaks quicker & better than
any wood plug. What if the hole is jagged, or a piece of
valve is protruding?

This is why I said to think about putting in fiberglass.
It's strong. It will never leak or need maintenance. It is
proof against corrosion, abrasion, fire. It's more work, but
you'll never have to fool with it again (are you planning to
own this boat for a long time?)

After all, the only reason you need the valve is in case the
hose breaks somehow.

But then what do I know, I prefer open transoms

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

In article .com,
wrote:

Hi Bob, yeah that's the case here, these drains are basically bottom of
the boat , most definitely below the waterline. Boat is on the hard, on
the cradle, so no concerns about doing this while afloat.

I'd spring for what's called a seacock, but it's just a ball valve with
a base. Among other things, they sit lower.

Definitely use teflon tape on the threads so you can take it apart for
rebedding a decade or two from now.

I'd spring for better hose than the clear reinforced. Don't even
consider the clear stuff.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Doug,
I agree about the design, but would it be easier to fill the existing holes
and install thru hulls above the waterline? this would also negate another
post about freezing water causing problems.
MMC

"DSK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Hi, a few questions for those of you In The Know,

1971 Ranger 26 (Gary Mull). Cockpit drains forward to two drain hoses
that go straight
to through-hulls.


IMHO that's a rather poor design. Would it be feasible to
replace the hoses & valves with fiberglass tubes?


Required: install ball valves or seacocks (as there are none now, and
insurance blah blah
blah) and replace hose.

Can anyone walk me through the process? I'm assuming the through
hulls are bronze and threaded internally, looks to be about 1 1/2" hose
with double hose clamps at the hull connection. (I'll be verifying the
through hull threading this weekend).


Assume nothing until you disassmble what's in place now, and
see. Usually thru-hulls like this have what paradoxically
called Straight Pipe Thread, which is a parallel thread
intended to mate to tapered pipe thread. A poor compromise,
it's not as strong as either and it's relatively hard to get
a good seal.


So -

- new clamps - 304 enough, or 316 SS? freshwater use exclusively.


Use 316

- what kind of hose is recommended? clear plastic w/ reinforce
mesh?


No, use the reinforced hose rated for engine intake. It's
below the waterline, right?


- ball valve or seacock? everyone's using ball valves these days
but West
Marine says no no use seacock


A "seacock" is not really a good descriptor of a specific
type of valve. I tend to think of a flanged plug-cock valve
as a seacock, but these are rather old-fashioned (although
still great for this service, but they're expensive to make
and thus hard to find in today's bubble-pak world).

Anyway, ball valves are workable if they're the right
material, they're cheap & readily available.


- what kind of valve? bronze ok assuming through hull is bronze?
straight
threading or just match the through hull threading?


The best thing to do would be to get a flange fitting that
is matched to the thru-hull threads, and screw it down all
the way against the hull, and then mount the seacock valve
on that flange.

But that's a lot of trouble & expense, it's very rarely
done, and *if* the threads are matched & put together well,
then they seem to be strong enough for most service.



(is there any chance it's brass? i'm guessing no but not sure..
probably
would have corroded by now?)


Brass doesn't corrode, it turn lighter color & gets very
brittle. Try scraping it hard with something made of tool steel.

- teflon tape sealant on the threading? or something else?


I use teflon tape, myself, but takes scrupulous attention to
detail. I've rarely seen anybody else do it right except
field technicians (and they mess up sometimes). The average
person should not monkey with teflon tape, there's too much
that can go wrong (perhaps I should seek sponsorship from a
thread-dope company).



Anything else I'm missing here (yeah I have some spruce plugs
standing by)?


This will be considered heresy by some, but duct tape & a
garbage bag will seal up holes & leaks quicker & better than
any wood plug. What if the hole is jagged, or a piece of
valve is protruding?

This is why I said to think about putting in fiberglass.
It's strong. It will never leak or need maintenance. It is
proof against corrosion, abrasion, fire. It's more work, but
you'll never have to fool with it again (are you planning to
own this boat for a long time?)

After all, the only reason you need the valve is in case the
hose breaks somehow.

But then what do I know, I prefer open transoms

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

MMC wrote:
I agree about the design, but would it be easier to fill the existing holes
and install thru hulls above the waterline? this would also negate another
post about freezing water causing problems.
MMC


That's a good idea too, if you can design it so the drain
tubes don't block the quarter berths.

Freezing water can break fiberglass, though. It's tougher
than hoses but nothing's perfect

DSK

Drains above the waterline are also much less prone to clogging. The
floating stuff goes right through instead of building up into a mat at
the water level.

You should close the seacocks on below water hoses when leaving the
boat so that means coming back to water (and slime if its been a long
time) in the cockpit.

Are you sure your cockpit really drains forward? Sometimes builders
just put the drains there because it is easier. A good arrangement is
drains straight back through the transom. You can get through hulls
with flappers to prevent back surge and there are special drains to
install low for complete drainage.

--

Roger Long



"MMC" wrote in message
m...
Doug,
I agree about the design, but would it be easier to fill the
existing holes
and install thru hulls above the waterline? this would also negate
another
post about freezing water causing problems.
MMC

"DSK" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Hi, a few questions for those of you In The Know,

1971 Ranger 26 (Gary Mull). Cockpit drains forward to two drain
hoses
that go straight
to through-hulls.


IMHO that's a rather poor design. Would it be feasible to
replace the hoses & valves with fiberglass tubes?


Required: install ball valves or seacocks (as there are none
now, and
insurance blah blah
blah) and replace hose.

Can anyone walk me through the process? I'm assuming the
through
hulls are bronze and threaded internally, looks to be about 1
1/2" hose
with double hose clamps at the hull connection. (I'll be
verifying the
through hull threading this weekend).


Assume nothing until you disassmble what's in place now, and
see. Usually thru-hulls like this have what paradoxically
called Straight Pipe Thread, which is a parallel thread
intended to mate to tapered pipe thread. A poor compromise,
it's not as strong as either and it's relatively hard to get
a good seal.


So -

- new clamps - 304 enough, or 316 SS? freshwater use
exclusively.


Use 316

- what kind of hose is recommended? clear plastic w/
reinforce
mesh?


No, use the reinforced hose rated for engine intake. It's
below the waterline, right?


- ball valve or seacock? everyone's using ball valves these
days
but West
Marine says no no use seacock


A "seacock" is not really a good descriptor of a specific
type of valve. I tend to think of a flanged plug-cock valve
as a seacock, but these are rather old-fashioned (although
still great for this service, but they're expensive to make
and thus hard to find in today's bubble-pak world).

Anyway, ball valves are workable if they're the right
material, they're cheap & readily available.


- what kind of valve? bronze ok assuming through hull is
bronze?
straight
threading or just match the through hull threading?


The best thing to do would be to get a flange fitting that
is matched to the thru-hull threads, and screw it down all
the way against the hull, and then mount the seacock valve
on that flange.

But that's a lot of trouble & expense, it's very rarely
done, and *if* the threads are matched & put together well,
then they seem to be strong enough for most service.



(is there any chance it's brass? i'm guessing no but not
sure..
probably
would have corroded by now?)


Brass doesn't corrode, it turn lighter color & gets very
brittle. Try scraping it hard with something made of tool steel.

- teflon tape sealant on the threading? or something else?


I use teflon tape, myself, but takes scrupulous attention to
detail. I've rarely seen anybody else do it right except
field technicians (and they mess up sometimes). The average
person should not monkey with teflon tape, there's too much
that can go wrong (perhaps I should seek sponsorship from a
thread-dope company).



Anything else I'm missing here (yeah I have some spruce plugs
standing by)?


This will be considered heresy by some, but duct tape & a
garbage bag will seal up holes & leaks quicker & better than
any wood plug. What if the hole is jagged, or a piece of
valve is protruding?

This is why I said to think about putting in fiberglass.
It's strong. It will never leak or need maintenance. It is
proof against corrosion, abrasion, fire. It's more work, but
you'll never have to fool with it again (are you planning to
own this boat for a long time?)

After all, the only reason you need the valve is in case the
hose breaks somehow.

But then what do I know, I prefer open transoms

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Roger Long wrote:
Drains above the waterline are also much less prone to clogging. The
floating stuff goes right through instead of building up into a mat at
the water level.

That's a nice feature of a catamaran! The cockpit is several feet
above the water.


You should close the seacocks on below water hoses when leaving the
boat so that means coming back to water (and slime if its been a long
time) in the cockpit.

That sounds like prudent advice, but I seem to remember that the
largest single cause of boats sinking is clogged cockpit drains.