dadiOH wrote:

People seem to ascribe nearly mystical properties to various finishes.
Truth is, it is all about chemistry. Here are a couple of links to some
interesting info about modern varnishes.
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/pages/w00063.asp
http://www.woodfinishingsupplies.com/varnish.htm

--

dadiOH
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So is it silly to use marine varnish? It sounds like a good exterior
varnish from the hardware store would do just as well and half the
price.

I've used the super durable, very fast drying, polyurethane varnish
left over from re-doing our hardwood floors for a number of non-boat
projects. It's great. I put six coats on a mahogany base for a model
in one day and it looks like I spend weeks on it. The marine varnish
I've been using takes 24 hours before I can sand it easily and put
another coat on and doesn't look any better.

If I was sure about the UV aspect, I'd use that floor varnish on my
(already varnished) exterior teak. It sure would be nice to have it
dry in an hour and be working on another coat instead of worrying
about whether the guy next to me was going to be sanding his white
paint.

Just how important is the UV, Interior/Exterior business anyway? The
marine varnish I put on some of my exterior trim pretty much
disappeared over the season anyway.

--

Roger Long

Roger Long wrote:
Just how important is the UV, Interior/Exterior business anyway?

Quite, IMO. But that doesn't mean the sun won't eat the varnish. Used
to have a boat with a yard...top of the yard needed doing every six
months max. Rest of the boat could go 18-24 months. About half that
without UV protection.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 14:20:45 +0000, Roger Long wrote:

So is it silly to use marine varnish? It sounds like a good exterior
varnish from the hardware store would do just as well and half the
price.

I've used the super durable, very fast drying, polyurethane varnish left
over from re-doing our hardwood floors for a number of non-boat
projects. It's great. I put six coats on a mahogany base for a model in
one day and it looks like I spend weeks on it. The marine varnish I've
been using takes 24 hours before I can sand it easily and put another
coat on and doesn't look any better.

The problem with PU varnish is that it will still crack and peel like
anything else. But when you need to patch or redo it, what's left is next
to impossible to remove. It's probably the best thing for interiors
though.

If I was sure about the UV aspect, I'd use that floor varnish on my
(already varnished) exterior teak. It sure would be nice to have it dry
in an hour and be working on another coat instead of worrying about
whether the guy next to me was going to be sanding his white paint.

Just how important is the UV, Interior/Exterior business anyway? The
marine varnish I put on some of my exterior trim pretty much disappeared
over the season anyway.

It's everything! UV actually causes the wood to break down, which is what
causes varnish to crack and peel. Think about it -- debonding from the
wood has to happen from the wood side, not the weather side.

FWIW, Cetol has that orange tone because it contains iron oxide for UV
protection. This gives the most bang for the buck in terms of UV
protection. Clear UV protectants are expensive, and not quite as
effective.

I've had great luck with Deks Olje. The #1, basically an oil finish,
builds up quicker and easier than anything. If you like a satin finish
it's good as-is. If you want gloss you can put the #2 on over it. The #2
isn't as hard and glossy as the hardest and glossiest finishes, but it's
good enough for most people. If you want the boat to shine for a special
event, you can just sand in a coat of #1, then slap on a coat of #2. The
best thing about Deks Olje is that it's so easy to maintain, so you'll
actually do it.

I've been using a little Cetol lately, to see how it holds up and how easy
it is to maintain, compared to the Deks Olje. Ask me about it at the end
of this summer.

Matt O.

Maybe you can help with a question I asked here a while ago and never
got a good answer. My teak all has heavy coats of varnish that is now
chipped and cracking so it needs to come off. It's quite orange and
now I know why.

Questions:

Can I scrape it and use Decks Olje or similar oil successfully? I'd
rather put something on with a rag more often than get out masking
tape and brushes less often. (You use brushes for the first coats,
right?)

If I help the process along with a stripper, will I have problems with
the Decks Olje?

I ask because the teak I did scrape and revarnish didn't look like
teak because of varnish left in the grain. I don't want to remove
enough wood to get below that.

It's funny. I couldn't get straight answers to these questions in the
Wooden Boat Magazine forum either.

BTW I'm not compulsive about appearance. Our boat is like a very
attractive 60 year old woman. I just want the teak to look cared for;
not new.

--

Roger Long

The Deks Olje will give the wood the same kind of color that varnish would.
Which means, whatever color the wood is before you apply it, it'll turn that
color of wood into that color of wood with varnish ...no hiding. Sounds to
me like you probably have to scrape the varnish and then accept whatever
color you get. You might try an Oxyclean mix scrubbed into it and let soak.
Chlorine seems to be harder on the wood. I'm sure some chemist can tell us
why. The Deks Olje will go onto anything, but will not soak into hard
varnish, but soaks into the wood pretty well. I put it on the deck of a
boat once and let it go for 5 years (all outdoor exposure, mostly on the
trailer though) before retreating and it kept the wood new looking all
along. I was impressed. I also liked the Deks Olje varnish-like color and
the fact that it allowed the wood to keep its natural non-slip qualities
(unlike shiny hard varnish wet with spray). The Deks Olje wood stayed
non-slip even when wet. No affiliation. I just liked the product.

Can you experiment on a hidden area first? Then commit the rest of the job?

Brian D


"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Maybe you can help with a question I asked here a while ago and never got
a good answer. My teak all has heavy coats of varnish that is now chipped
and cracking so it needs to come off. It's quite orange and now I know
why.

Questions:

Can I scrape it and use Decks Olje or similar oil successfully? I'd
rather put something on with a rag more often than get out masking tape
and brushes less often. (You use brushes for the first coats, right?)

If I help the process along with a stripper, will I have problems with the
Decks Olje?

I ask because the teak I did scrape and revarnish didn't look like teak
because of varnish left in the grain. I don't want to remove enough wood
to get below that.

It's funny. I couldn't get straight answers to these questions in the
Wooden Boat Magazine forum either.

BTW I'm not compulsive about appearance. Our boat is like a very
attractive 60 year old woman. I just want the teak to look cared for; not
new.

--

Roger Long

On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 07:03:49 -0700, Brian D wrote:

I also liked the Deks Olje varnish-like color and
the fact that it allowed the wood to keep its natural non-slip qualities
(unlike shiny hard varnish wet with spray). The Deks Olje wood stayed
non-slip even when wet.

I've noticed this too. This is because the Deks Olje is softer. I have
some Cetol on the swim platform steps and edge trim now, and
it's *a lot* slipperier than the DO was.

No affiliation. I just liked the product.

Me too.

Matt O.

On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:46:22 +0000, Roger Long wrote:

Maybe you can help with a question I asked here a while ago and never
got a good answer. My teak all has heavy coats of varnish that is now
chipped and cracking so it needs to come off. It's quite orange and
now I know why.

Questions:

Can I scrape it and use Decks Olje or similar oil successfully? I'd
rather put something on with a rag more often than get out masking
tape and brushes less often. (You use brushes for the first coats,
right?)

Actually you can just wipe it on with a rag. You keep doing it until the
wood won't take anymore, then wipe off any that didn't soak in. Nothing
could be easier.

If I help the process along with a stripper, will I have problems with
the Decks Olje?

No.

I ask because the teak I did scrape and revarnish didn't look like teak
because of varnish left in the grain. I don't want to remove enough
wood to get below that.

It's funny. I couldn't get straight answers to these questions in the
Wooden Boat Magazine forum either.

It's a religion to that crowd -- myth and dogma.

BTW I'm not compulsive about appearance. Our boat is like a very
attractive 60 year old woman. I just want the teak to look cared for;
not new.

Go ahead and strip, and use the Deks Olje. It's probably more tolerant
than anything else. Good stripper works very well, and most varnish comes
off easily anyway.

Matt O.

Roger,
Just a question about removing old varnish: do you scrape before sanding?
My varnish work goes a lot quicker when I use a 90degree scraper to get most
of the old varnish off before I sand. I like varnishing almost as much as
painting so will anything to get it over with quicker.
Many only sand, and I don't mean to say you are one of those.
The guy in the next slip at the marina where I used to keep my boat was
sitting on his deck sanding his hand rails one day and I demonstrated the
use of a scraper, even sharpened it for him. He refused to use it and I came
to believe the real reason was sanding alone took a lot more time, and this
kept him out of the house!
MMC
"Roger Long" wrote in message
...
Maybe you can help with a question I asked here a while ago and never
got a good answer. My teak all has heavy coats of varnish that is now
chipped and cracking so it needs to come off. It's quite orange and
now I know why.

Questions:

Can I scrape it and use Decks Olje or similar oil successfully? I'd
rather put something on with a rag more often than get out masking
tape and brushes less often. (You use brushes for the first coats,
right?)

If I help the process along with a stripper, will I have problems with
the Decks Olje?

I ask because the teak I did scrape and revarnish didn't look like
teak because of varnish left in the grain. I don't want to remove
enough wood to get below that.

It's funny. I couldn't get straight answers to these questions in the
Wooden Boat Magazine forum either.

BTW I'm not compulsive about appearance. Our boat is like a very
attractive 60 year old woman. I just want the teak to look cared for;
not new.

--

Roger Long

"MMC" wrote

Roger,
Just a question about removing old varnish: do you scrape before
sanding?

About all I can tell you at this point is that I brush before
flossing. We just bought the boat last year and I averted my eyes all
season and pretended that I didn't see any varnish. Wait a minute.
There were some pieces of trim on the winch handle pockets that I
revarnished. I think I did scrape them but mostly sanded.

My wrist wears out fast. Sanding and painting is especially hard on
it. I'm sure hoping that fellow who said it was OK to use a stripper
that doesn't attack the gel coat was right. I'll probably use that
sparingly, then scrape, then sand, then varnish.

Actually, I'm leaning towards Deck Oje at this point. Wiping all the
teak down with a rag once a month seems a lot more pleasant and that
kind of motion doesn't bother me as much as brushing. I just took a
teak anchor roller "bowsprit" off and I'm going to make that my test
case.

--

Roger Long