Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases, they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a dishonest
bunch.

What are your thoughts.

Jasper

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases, they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a dishonest
bunch.

What are your thoughts.

Jasper


I put them in the same league as car salesmen and real estate brokers.
I would prefer to buy without using them but sometimes you have to. I
did buy my last house, car and boat in private sales. I didn't feel I
needed a broker for any of them this time.

Besides, the best boats never get to a broker. Someone who knows the
boat buys it.

Gaz

Hey, Larry, that was pretty good. Interesting reading.

The surveyor; I was just reading a survey and the surveryor basically says
"this is what I found with the vessel, might be a bunch of other stuff wrong
but I didn't find that stuff, so have a nice day and good luck".

The broker; "I know nothing .. I am a boat broker who does nothing and
knows nothing and really shouldn't exist on the planet".

The buyer; "holy ****, there is water coming into the boat ... oh my god,
we are sinking ,,, the keel has fallen off ... the mast just fell into the
sea ... the cabin roof is collapsing .. the engine is on fire .... the
radio doesn't work .... "

Later:

"Family lost off coast in sailboat"


===================================

One thing this tells you ... when it is offer time. Be careful.

All the risk is on the buyer. So, the buyer should take this into
consideration when making an offer.


================================================== ===================


"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in
news:M38Jf.8097$lG.4345@trndny01:

I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a
dishonest bunch.

What are your thoughts.



If a seller, including car dealers/boat brokers/vacuum cleaner salesmen,
makes any kind of statement as to the condition of or use of a product,
including USED product, they create what the law says is an "Implied
Warranty" that the product will do what they say it will. There are two,
the "Implied Warranty of Merchantability" and the "Implied Warranty of
Suitability for a Particular Purpose". The first warranty says the boat
is in fine condition and is ready to sell to you. If he opens his mouth
and says it's ready-for-sea, he's opened himself up to be sued under the
law if it isn't. The second warranty is if he tells you this is the
perfect boat for your family of 6 for vacations. He has created an
implied warranty of suitability for a particular purpose, your vacation.

If he keeps his mouth shut and tells you nothing, and because it has no
written warranty, the implied warranties don't exist and it's YOUR fault
you bought the POS boat with the leaky fittings that sank at the slip.

If you get a survey, it's the surveyor's fault, not the broker's....

It's why they are so closed mouth. Wouldn't you keep your mouth shut,
too?

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht..._15_10_50.html

They'd all rather you didn't know anything about either of these
websites...(c;

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases, they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.


You should ask the folks on alt.sailing.asa what they think of their
resident "broker" capt rob.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

Surveys are required, period. You might even plan on rejecting a few
boats after survey, depending on what you're after.


I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a dishonest
bunch.

real estate, cars, yachts ... they're all the same profession. Most
are honest, but their job is to figure out how much you have in your
pocket and make sure you leave 99% behind and walk out thinking you
got a bargain.

Its your job to know what you want.


What are your thoughts.

Jasper

Mys Terry,,, you are starting to annoy me.

====================================
"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 23:40:28 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
wrote:

Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases, they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a
dishonest
bunch.

What are your thoughts.

Jasper


Stop expecting others to do your homework. A broker's job is to bring a
buyer
and a seller together. They are not baby sitters or therapists. It's your
job to
decide if a boat is what you want. Do the first survey yourself. If you
get that
far and it still looks good, then hire a pro for a second survey. You
don't have
a survey done on every boat that you consider - just the one you want to
make an
offer on.

It's silly to say that boat brokers are a dishonest bunch. That comes
mostly
from a misguided idea of the broker's function. The reality is that the
broker
HAS to rely on whatever the seller tells them about the boat, whether it
is
accurate or not. What else can they do? They don't own the boat. They
are just
there to market it, and try to attract potential buyers. That is all. Get
real.


Mys Terry

Larry: Are you a lawyer or broker?

I'm a commercial realtor and former boat broker. This initial post is based
on some common misconceptions and incorrect assumptions. Larry's post was
spot on. It's behavior expressing a healthy fear of litigation. Most of said
litigation is due to ill-informed buyers that have the wrong expectations of
brokers and then sue because they bought said "POS." The sellers / buyers
need to better understand the representation brokers offer.

We are paid for our contacts, our ability to find/warehouse/catalog
opportunities, our product knowledge and then our ability to negotiate the
best deal for whomever we represent. If Billy Boater has me as a buyer's
agent working for him, I negotiate the best possible deal or steer him to a
better one. If I represent the owner, he gets the best price for his
possession from Billy Boater's wallet. I do it better than Billy.

Brokers are far from drains on the sales cycle. They match buyers, sellers,
their products and prices in a way that the average citizen alone could
never duplicate.

There are lots of exceptions and I'll bet I hear from them soon. :-)

..
"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Thomas Wentworth" wrote in
news:M38Jf.8097$lG.4345@trndny01:

I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a
dishonest bunch.

What are your thoughts.



If a seller, including car dealers/boat brokers/vacuum cleaner salesmen,
makes any kind of statement as to the condition of or use of a product,
including USED product, they create what the law says is an "Implied
Warranty" that the product will do what they say it will. There are two,
the "Implied Warranty of Merchantability" and the "Implied Warranty of
Suitability for a Particular Purpose". The first warranty says the boat
is in fine condition and is ready to sell to you. If he opens his mouth
and says it's ready-for-sea, he's opened himself up to be sued under the
law if it isn't. The second warranty is if he tells you this is the
perfect boat for your family of 6 for vacations. He has created an
implied warranty of suitability for a particular purpose, your vacation.

If he keeps his mouth shut and tells you nothing, and because it has no
written warranty, the implied warranties don't exist and it's YOUR fault
you bought the POS boat with the leaky fittings that sank at the slip.

If you get a survey, it's the surveyor's fault, not the broker's....

It's why they are so closed mouth. Wouldn't you keep your mouth shut,
too?

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/warranty.htm
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht..._15_10_50.html

They'd all rather you didn't know anything about either of these
websites...(c;

I didn't mean honest in the sense that they would represent your best
interest. I meant honest in the sense that they probably will avoid
doing anything that would land them in jail. Or, to put it another
way, I would buy another car from the last three dealers we have
bought from, and have recommended them to friends.

You, on the other hand, seem startled by the thought that boat brokers
should be viewed any different from car salesmen. What planet are you on?



Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Car salesmen are honest? Did you really write that? What planet are you
living on?

================
"Jeff" wrote in message
...

Thomas Wentworth wrote:

Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent
the buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes
through yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much.
If you ask them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most
cases, they have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the
boat.


You should ask the folks on alt.sailing.asa what they think of their
resident "broker" capt rob.


Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

Surveys are required, period. You might even plan on rejecting a few
boats after survey, depending on what you're after.


I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a
dishonest bunch.

real estate, cars, yachts ... they're all the same profession. Most are
honest, but their job is to figure out how much you have in your pocket
and make sure you leave 99% behind and walk out thinking you got a
bargain.

Its your job to know what you want.


What are your thoughts.

Jasper

I refer you to my posting as a reply to Mys Terry..


Positive feedback.

It builds up my self esteem.


PS.. car salesman, boat brokers... both lying thieves.


==============================================
"Jeff" wrote in message
...
I didn't mean honest in the sense that they would represent your best
interest. I meant honest in the sense that they probably will avoid doing
anything that would land them in jail. Or, to put it another way, I would
buy another car from the last three dealers we have bought from, and have
recommended them to friends.

You, on the other hand, seem startled by the thought that boat brokers
should be viewed any different from car salesmen. What planet are you on?



Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Car salesmen are honest? Did you really write that? What planet are you
living on?

================
"Jeff" wrote in message
...

Thomas Wentworth wrote:

Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it
just me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they
represent the buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a
sale goes through yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to
do much. If you ask them something about a boat, they say "get a
survey". In most cases, they have never been on the boat, not have they
ever seen the boat.


You should ask the folks on alt.sailing.asa what they think of their
resident "broker" capt rob.


Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

Surveys are required, period. You might even plan on rejecting a few
boats after survey, depending on what you're after.


I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a
dishonest bunch.

real estate, cars, yachts ... they're all the same profession. Most are
honest, but their job is to figure out how much you have in your pocket
and make sure you leave 99% behind and walk out thinking you got a
bargain.

Its your job to know what you want.


What are your thoughts.

Jasper

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

and can the survey even be relied on.

in the end i think the best thing is for whoever is buying the boat to
know what they are buying. someone cruising, in my opinion, can't be
like someone who buys a car, or an rv, or even a house. those things
you can hire some folks to come in and take a look at it for you, a
mechanic, someone looking for termites, an appraiser, etc, and you act
on whatever they say. but a sailboat, that's your life on the line ...
it's not just inconvenient to have the boat sink out from under you, so
you have to take more responsibility as a buyer to watch out for your
own person.

so my opinion, and it's just that, is that it's ok to hear what the
broker and owner say, and it's even better to bring in a diesel
mechanic to look at the engine, and a surveyor to do a survey, etc, but
that in the end you have to be out there ripping the floor up to look
at the hull yourself, checking the zincs, finding out if the electrical
is a mess or not, looking in the bilge (if the boat isn't on the dirt),
climbing up the mast to check the rigging for hints about it's age,
etc, etc, because in the end a lot of these things are things you'll be
trusting your life to. and since it's your life, it isn't that great
of an idea to trust it to someone else no matter how much they know.
even in cars, you sort of trust your life to a mechanic when he works
on your brakes, but not nearly so much is at stake as there is with
your hull, or your rigging. your brakes on a car usually fail slowly,
but even if they failed suddenly you'd be in a crash at worst, maybe
lose your life, but most likely just smash up the car. most likely
you'd just get out, walk around, check to see that the other driver was
ok, you'd wait for fire and rescue, sue your mechanic, etc haha. but
if your boat has water coming in through a misplaced through-hull, or
water comes in through the engine or something, you're suddenly at the
mercy of a giant ocean, and there's really nobody there to help you ...
if your radio/electrical failed not even a way to tell them you need
help (short of an EPIRB).

sailors i think have to treat their boats as more than just
transportation or a house, more than a vehicle, and have to know a lot
more about it. the connection between a sailor and his/her boat i
believe is a much more personal one, more intimate, and the survival of
both depends greatly on the essential quality of each. the boat has to
be strong, move well, stand up to a gale, and take care of her captain,
etc ... and the sailor has to be smart, resourceful, know the boat
well, and be industrious in giving the boat what she needs. it's like
a team effort, a much more personal relationship than simple ownership,
or car & driver type of relationship. her sails are your sails, her
engine your engine, her hull your way of keeping dry, etc, she's like a
set of clothing, or armor, or wings that you strap on your back, giving
you capabilities you don't possess without her. and there has to be a
level of trust there, confidence, that comes through really getting to
know her and how she acts, knowing her little tantrums and her flaws,
and knowing her strengths so you can rely on her, etc.

i think trusting a boat broker to pick out a boat isn't anything at all
like trusting a car dealer to find you a car ... it's a lot more like
trusting a matchmaker to find you a wife lol. and yeah ... they are
way too uncaring and sleazy to trust to find you a wife.. ahem, i
mean, boat lol.

In article M38Jf.8097$lG.4345@trndny01,
"Thomas Wentworth" wrote:

Lately, I have been in contact with a number of boat brokers. Is it just
me, but these people seem sleazy. They have a listing, they represent the
buyer [ and themselves ]. They stand to make money if a sale goes through
yet they don't seem to know much, nor do they want to do much. If you ask
them something about a boat, they say "get a survey". In most cases, they
have never been on the boat, not have they ever seen the boat.

Surveys are fine, but they can cost hundreds of dollars.

I don't know,,, maybe is me but I really think boat brokers are a dishonest
bunch.

What are your thoughts.

Jasper

Like everything else in life, it depends on the person.

I found a broker who found the boat I wanted, guided me through
acquisition process, helped me resolve problems after the boat was
delivered a good 330 miles from his shop, came sailing up here to help
me out and showed me tons about my boat.

Anyone who has dealt with Todd Williams of McMichaels in Mamaroneck, NY
knows that there are brokers who do not fit your definition.

Keep on looking.

harlan

--
To respond, obviously drop the "nospan"?