Boat Broker Question ...
 

That sums it up.....

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Dave,,, save it ...

The coop boards? Give it a rest. Most of us live in the "real world".



"Dave" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 01:46:38 GMT, Gary said:


I guess there is a requirement if you know nothing about what you are
looking for. For example, if I was moving to some city I had never
visited and needed a place to live. But if I'm moving down the street
or to a small town then what does the agent do?

Can't speak to down the street or small town, but if you're buying a NYC
coop, having a good broker may mean the difference between getting the
apartment and getting turned down repeatedly by the coop boards.
Similarly,
if you're selling it may mean the difference between picking a buyer who
will pass the board and wasting months floundering with buyers who will
never qualify.

Boat Broker Question ...
 

Dave wrote:
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 03:03:36 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
said:


Dave,,, save it ...

The coop boards? Give it a rest. Most of us live in the "real world".


Unfortunately, that sort of statement most often means only that your
particular slice of reality is somewhat limited.

Or yours.

Do you think "coop boards" exist everywhere? This is maybe an isolated
example of where an agent might actually do something. Not the norm.

The real world.

Boat Broker Question ...
 

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:29:49 GMT, wrote:

I do not feel differently.
Same thing happened to me.
Another classic is the offer scenario.
The following technique works wells.
A boat's real price is around $50,000. The broker is asking $85,000 and is
fishing for about $65,000. You know he is way out to lunch. You like the
boat but you hesitate to make an offer of $50,000. because you might insult
the seller/broker.

I don't give a damn about insulting the seller/broker. I dealt
privately with a guy who went from $31K to $23K over a beer. I offered
$19K. He looked shocked, because 12 years back, he had paid $35K or
something. I said: "That was the eighties, this is 1999 and the boat
is tired and survey says X, Y and Z need immediate attention" We
agreed much closer to my price than to his.

I've spent about $10K on the boat. If I get $28-30K, I'll be quite
fortunate. But the boat is 33 this year, and even though structurally
and functionally it's arguably "better than factory", it's
unfashionable and cosmetically compromised G. C'est la vie. It sails
great. Sellers have to get real that not everyone finds their "wives"
irresistable. I am currently looking at more than one steel cruiser in
the Great Lakes, most of which need finishing. What "you paid for cool
stuff" is frankly irrelevant to me as a buyer. I am aware it's a small
pond in terms of brutal steel ketches. It's more like "sell it or
don't". 95% of people will get a used C&C or J/Boat or a new
Beneteau/Hunter/Catalina. It's the way of things. Your very capable
offshore tank ain't going to command a premium here.


You request to sea trial the boat. The broker states
that he need a firm offer before a sea trial can take place. You then
decide to make an offer of $60,000. The broker tells you that your offer
is too low and make you feel a little cheap.

Sod it. Immediately look him in the eye, tell him your offer is now
$59,000 and will drop by $1,000/minute for every minute he blocks your
sea trial. Tell him it's the fine old tradition of capitalism, and
reach for the doorknob.

Later the broker comes in with
a counter offer of $75,000. You tell him that it is too high, then he tells
you to make another offer. Then you both agree to go half way to
$68,500.00. At that stage you feel happy because you negotiated the price
from $85,000. to $68,500. Conversely the seller/broker is please to have
sold a $50,000. for $68,500. and the seller does not mind to paid the broker
his commission.

********. Brokers can be a great help and can really facilitate a
sale, but at times they have the function and utility of crack ho
pimps. It's clear early on which type you have in hand, and whether or
not you need to put your wallet back and walk on. There's always
another stroll.

R.

Boat Broker Question ...
 

I've talk to 10-15 brokers when looking for my boat, I didn't have any
of these problems, I was able to eliminate the bad ones either by
looking at their listing or by talking to them on the phone:
1. If price is way too high, don't bother.
2. If the broker doesn't return your phone calls or emails, don't
bother
3. If the brokerage has more than 6 salesmen, don't bother
4. If you've done your research, and you should have, and realize the
broker doesn't really know the boat he is selling, don't bother.
5. Don't bring you checkbook on the 1st visit, then you won't be
tempted to buy before giving it some thought.
6. Don't look for boats in the spring, look at them in in Nov/Dec,
if they haven't sold for a season they are more likely to come down
in price.
I did have 1 broker (after to looking at the boat for an hour) tell me
get got a call with an full-price offer over the phone, I told him I
can't beat that and walked out. He is just doing his job, try to get
the max. $ for his client, don't take it personal, just turn around and
walk out.

Boat Broker Question ...
 

Dave wrote:
On 23 Feb 2006 03:52:55 -0800, "tom" said:


He is just doing his job, try to get
the max. $ for his client, don't take it personal,


Good advice, except for the bit about max $. The broker's primary interest
is in getting the deal done, regardless of whether his client gets a high or
low price. If he sells the boat, he gets a percentage. If he doesn't sell
the boat he gets nothing. He'd always prefer getting paid based on a
percentage of 60% of asking to not getting paid at all. So while he's got no
interest in telling you something that will break the deal, he also has no
interest in telling his client to walk unless he really believes the offer
is less that what he can sell the boat for.


No kidding. On a 100K deal, he is getting 10%, and may have to split
1/2 with a buyer's broker. That leaves him 5K. And he may have to
give up some of that with the brokerage company he works for. Say he
nets 4K on a $100K deal.

Now say you're trying to buy the boat for $90K. That's only $400
difference to mr. broker vs the $100K sale. Think he's trying to get
the max $ for his client or just close the deal?

Evan Gatehouse

Boat Broker Question ...
 

I talked to a friend who owned a brokerage for 15 years. He says the best
by far method of buying is to give a written offer you want to pay
contingent on a survey and with a set time limit (10 days) and walk out the
door. No haggling, no b.s.
If the owner is anxious, he'll think it over a few days and either accept
or make a counter offer. If you get a counter offer, wait several days (make
him sweat) and either counter the counter or walk.
If it 's a slow time of year, the broker will often pressure the seller
just so he gets his commission,
Gordon

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:03:36 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
said:

Evan,,, for answering the phone and making a couple of calls? You are
going
to pay some jamooka $10,000?

Fer chrisakes, give it a little thought before posting such blather. It's
the nature of the business that the seller pays a commission on only the
sale that's made, and pays nothing on all of the showings, phone calls,
checking actual sales of comparables, etc. to people that don't ultimately
buy the boat. I know of very few boat brokers who are rich. And I'd guess
that if I divided the commission paid when I bought a boat by the number
of
hours various broker spent with me in the process of looking, that hourly
rate would look downright cheap. Same thing with real estate brokers.

I was remarking to my wife this morning that one reason people hate both
brokers and contingency fee lawyers is that they only see the amount of
the
fee on their particular case or purchase, and are blind to the efforts
that
result in nothing. (And BTW, I'm no fan of contingency fee lawyers, but
for
other reasons.)

Boat Broker Question ...
 

Gordon makes sense to me... he is saying not to sit in the broker's office
and go back and forth on the price.

This reminds me of my last visit to a used car dealership... and that was
years ago.

First; I look at car.
Second; take the car for ride with used car dealer in car.
Third; we get back and go into the used car dealer's office. I make an
offer.
Forth; the used car salesman says "wait, while I go talk to the boss".
Five: I tell him if he must talk to the boss, why am I wasting my time
talking to him and then I get up and walk in the boss's office and ask why
the dealership is wasting my time.

The boss gets all defensive, the salesman acts like a moron and I tell them
both to go F off.


That was my last visit to a car dealership; ever.

And I have bought and sold lots of cars and trucks sense then.



================================================== =======================
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 13:43:31 -0800, "Gordon" said:

I talked to a friend who owned a brokerage for 15 years. He says the
best
by far method of buying is to give a written offer you want to pay
contingent on a survey and with a set time limit (10 days) and walk out
the
door. No haggling, no b.s.
If the owner is anxious, he'll think it over a few days and either accept
or make a counter offer. If you get a counter offer, wait several days
(make
him sweat) and either counter the counter or walk.

I trust readers realize that your first paragraph and your second totally
contradict one another.

Boat Broker Question ...
 

Thomas Wentworth wrote:
Gordon makes sense to me... he is saying not to sit in the broker's office
and go back and forth on the price.

This reminds me of my last visit to a used car dealership... and that was
years ago.

First; I look at car.
Second; take the car for ride with used car dealer in car.
Third; we get back and go into the used car dealer's office. I make an
offer.
Forth; the used car salesman says "wait, while I go talk to the boss".
Five: I tell him if he must talk to the boss, why am I wasting my time
talking to him and then I get up and walk in the boss's office and ask why
the dealership is wasting my time.

The boss gets all defensive, the salesman acts like a moron and I tell them
both to go F off.


That was my last visit to a car dealership; ever.

And I have bought and sold lots of cars and trucks sense then.



================================================== =======================
"Dave" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 13:43:31 -0800, "Gordon" said:


I talked to a friend who owned a brokerage for 15 years. He says the
best
by far method of buying is to give a written offer you want to pay
contingent on a survey and with a set time limit (10 days) and walk out
the
door. No haggling, no b.s.
If the owner is anxious, he'll think it over a few days and either accept
or make a counter offer. If you get a counter offer, wait several days
(make
him sweat) and either counter the counter or walk.

I trust readers realize that your first paragraph and your second totally
contradict one another.



sense Noun

sense (Plural: senses)
# ability to be understood

You don't make any sense.



since Preposition

since

1. from (time)

Boat Broker Question ...
 

Dave wrote:
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 01:01:40 GMT, "Thomas Wentworth"
said:

Gordon makes sense to me... he is saying not to sit in the broker's office
and go back and forth on the price.

Hmm. Hadn't occurred to me that anyone would do that. However, as I think
about it, that's how multimillion dollar business deals get done. The
difference is, I suppose, that in business deals each side has given a lot
of advance thought and analysis to how high or low it's willing to go.

i agree that's the way to do it if you can. search the MLS (if it's
real estate, boats.com or something for boats) and go and look at a few
properties, then pick out the ones you think are reasonable, decide
what you're willing to pay for each one, then get the various seller's
brokers involved to take you to see the properties on the inside. then
just make an offer on one, whatever you think it's worth to you with a
time limit so you can move on to the next one. if they don't like it,
make an offer on the next one.

someone will sell at your price, eventually. the seller's asking price
doesn't even matter. getting your price is just a matter of time and
effort to find the right seller, sometimes it takes a while to track
down who it is, and you can't get your heart set on any particular one.
with boats i would assume this is even more true since they are just
sitting there costing money every day they aren't sold. it's not like
a piece of real estate where you can rent it out, or drop a few cows on
it to graze to cover your costs. i would imagine sellers just want to
stop the bleeding at some point and get rid of the damn thing.

this might sound funny, but i think you can get a lot of important
perspective out of thinking about all property as if it were a mundane
depreciating asset ... such a potato, then suddenly a lot of things
that sellers & brokers/agents say becomes much more amusing and
entertaining.

- we've got two other people looking at this potato, they seem serious
about it
- the owner has taken really good care of this potato
- i know the price of this potato seems high, but just look how well
it's been maintained
- this potato has been in the family for generations
- the seller built this potato with his own two hands!
- no matter how much you look, you'll never find another potato like
this potato
- i don't care what the appraiser says potatoes are worth, this one is
special
- this potato is such a good deal it's going to go fast, you need to
make an offer now!
- here, have a seat, can't you just picture yourself owning this potato

Boat Broker Question ...
 

tom wrote:
I've talk to 10-15 brokers when looking for my boat

Same here.

.... I didn't have any
of these problems, I was able to eliminate the bad ones either by
looking at their listing or by talking to them on the phone:
1. If price is way too high, don't bother.
2. If the broker doesn't return your phone calls or emails, don't
bother
3. If the brokerage has more than 6 salesmen, don't bother
4. If you've done your research, and you should have, and realize the
broker doesn't really know the boat he is selling, don't bother.

You can go too far on this one. Expecting a broker to know
all about every boat he might ever possibly sell is like
expecting the cashier to know all the technical specs about
every item in the store.

IF the broker can hold an intelligent discussion on
technical aspects of boats & boating in general, without
bull****ting, that's about as much as you can realistically
ask for.

5. Don't bring you checkbook on the 1st visit, then you won't be
tempted to buy before giving it some thought.
6. Don't look for boats in the spring, look at them in in Nov/Dec,
if they haven't sold for a season they are more likely to come down
in price.
I did have 1 broker (after to looking at the boat for an hour) tell me
get got a call with an full-price offer over the phone, I told him I
can't beat that and walked out. He is just doing his job, try to get
the max. $ for his client, don't take it personal, just turn around and
walk out.


Or just shurg and say, "I'll call you next week." He may be
just pulling a sales trick, or he may be telling the
truth... in either event, if the boat is worth negotiating
for, and you're not falling for a line, why just drop the
possibility?

There are a LOT of boats for sale out there, but the reality
is that there are few good ones. It is a labor intensive
process to find one & open negotiations, don't throw that
away because the salesman has an attack of bad breath.

Glen's post on the 3 cardinal rules of negotiating is also
very good.
1- *any* offer is better than no offer, so go ahead and make
one. It is the brokers business to present them to the
owner/seller.
2- No time pressure. Why are you in a hurry? It is much
better to get the right deal on the right boat than to spend
too much on the wrong boat. And in any negotiation
gamesmanship, the side that has a deadline has one more way
to lose.
3- Be able to walk away. If you start getting the idea that
you *must* have a boat, or even *must* have **THIS**, then
you need a shrink not a boat. Remember the fine line between
"hobby" and "unhealthy obsession."

And do your homework! You should know the general info on
the boat(s) you're interested, which ones are for sale &
asking how much, and maybe even ask around sailing clubs in
the area to get some history on a particular boat.

I could spend a lot of time reminiscing about how we came to
buy our boats, which have been great for us, but I've
already been typing too long. Coffee's cold!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King