This is another boat I've been looking at.

LOA = 46'6"
Beam = 14'
Displacement = 26,750 lbs (wing keel)
AVS = 126 degrees

The numbers are similar to those for the Beneteau 473
(AVS = 120 degrees) but this Catalina also has a collision
bulkhead.

I've also put the GZ curve for this boat on my website at
http://tayana46.tripod.com/safety.htm

Would you rather go offshore in this boat or in a Tayana
Vancouver 460 ?

Happy New Year everyone.

wrote:
This is another boat I've been looking at.

LOA = 46'6"
Beam = 14'
Displacement = 26,750 lbs (wing keel)
AVS = 126 degrees

The numbers are similar to those for the Beneteau 473
(AVS = 120 degrees) but this Catalina also has a collision
bulkhead.

I've also put the GZ curve for this boat on my website at
http://tayana46.tripod.com/safety.htm

Would you rather go offshore in this boat or in a Tayana
Vancouver 460 ?

Tayana, but it would depend on many specifics. I answer for myself and
in the general.

Happy New Year to you also.

With all due respect, I think you are putting too much emphasis on a
single metric of suitability. Focus more on the overall boat and its
reputation in my opinion. Catalina makes pretty good coastal cruisers,
built to a price, and well supported by the manufacturer. They have
never had a reputation as world/offshore cruisers however.

wrote:
Happy New Year to you also.

With all due respect, I think you are putting too much
emphasis on a single metric of suitability. Focus more
on the overall boat and its reputation in my opinion.
Catalina makes pretty good coastal cruisers, built to
a price, and well supported by the manufacturer. They
have never had a reputation as world/offshore cruisers
however.

Sorry if my post made it look like I was asking people
to compare the two boats based on their GZ curves alone.
If that was the case the Catalina would beat the Tayana
Vancouver 460 hands down :-)

Other factors that we've been considering include:

1. Tayana has only built 7 Vancouver 460 so this boat
still doesn't have a lot of reputation. In fact I haven't
been able to find any independent review of this boat
on the web.

2. Catalina 470 and Catalina Morgan are built at the old
Morgan factory in Florida. Do you think they're built
more like a Catalina or a Morgan ?

Here a link to Jonh Neal's web site with a list of
boats he considers to be suitable for going offshore
(posted by Evan Gatehouse in January 2004):

http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

You'll see Morgan 382 and 383 on the list. Some people
said that Tayanas are not included because they're too
slow and have high CG's.

3. The Tayana's GZ curve is based on the assumption that
the pilothouse would not be watertight. Evan said that
with this fact in mind I should feel better about this boat.
With storm shutters placed over the pilothouse windows
do you think it's going to be unlikely that the windows
will break in the event of a capsize ? And what about the
companionway door and hatch ?

I'm sure some people are still thinking that I shouldn't be
comparing these boats because they're totally different
but what I would like to get is a boat for under $400,000
with 3 staterooms, 2 or 3 heads and a collision bulkhead
and there aren't a lot to choose from.

wrote:
wrote:

Happy New Year to you also.

With all due respect, I think you are putting too much
emphasis on a single metric of suitability. Focus more
on the overall boat and its reputation in my opinion.
Catalina makes pretty good coastal cruisers, built to
a price, and well supported by the manufacturer. They
have never had a reputation as world/offshore cruisers
however.


Sorry if my post made it look like I was asking people
to compare the two boats based on their GZ curves alone.
If that was the case the Catalina would beat the Tayana
Vancouver 460 hands down :-)

Other factors that we've been considering include:

1. Tayana has only built 7 Vancouver 460 so this boat
still doesn't have a lot of reputation. In fact I haven't
been able to find any independent review of this boat
on the web.

2. Catalina 470 and Catalina Morgan are built at the old
Morgan factory in Florida. Do you think they're built
more like a Catalina or a Morgan ?

Here a link to Jonh Neal's web site with a list of
boats he considers to be suitable for going offshore
(posted by Evan Gatehouse in January 2004):

http://www.mahina.com/cruise.html#boats4cruising

You'll see Morgan 382 and 383 on the list. Some people
said that Tayanas are not included because they're too
slow and have high CG's.

3. The Tayana's GZ curve is based on the assumption that
the pilothouse would not be watertight. Evan said that
with this fact in mind I should feel better about this boat.
With storm shutters placed over the pilothouse windows
do you think it's going to be unlikely that the windows
will break in the event of a capsize ? And what about the
companionway door and hatch ?

I'm sure some people are still thinking that I shouldn't be
comparing these boats because they're totally different
but what I would like to get is a boat for under $400,000
with 3 staterooms, 2 or 3 heads and a collision bulkhead
and there aren't a lot to choose from.
Why don't you contact John Neal at Mahina Expeditions? He apparently
does consulting.
With respect to his list, I'm not sure what criteria he used but my boat
is on it and I would have to think twice before taking it offshore
because of the size of my pilothouse windows.

Gary wrote:
Why don't you contact John Neal at Mahina Expeditions?
He apparently does consulting.
With respect to his list, I'm not sure what criteria
he used but my boat is on it and I would have to think
twice before taking it offshore because of the size of
my pilothouse windows.

Thanks Gary.

I've just talked to John Neal and he said that he wouldn't
recommend either a Tayana Vancouver 460 or Catalina 470 for
offshore cruising.

He said that Tayana's quality varies a lot from boat to boat.

I'll give more details later after getting an email from him.

wrote:
Gary wrote:

Why don't you contact John Neal at Mahina Expeditions?
He apparently does consulting.
With respect to his list, I'm not sure what criteria
he used but my boat is on it and I would have to think
twice before taking it offshore because of the size of
my pilothouse windows.


Thanks Gary.

I've just talked to John Neal and he said that he wouldn't
recommend either a Tayana Vancouver 460 or Catalina 470 for
offshore cruising.

He said that Tayana's quality varies a lot from boat to boat.

I'll give more details later after getting an email from him.
Interesting. I wonder what his criteria are?

Gaz

Mr. Neil must have some 'very strange biases' as probably more Tayanas
have successfully circumnavigated than probably from any other
semi-custom manufacturer ('cept Valiant).

I have a Tayana, can attest that the metalurgy of the older boats is
not always up to par; but, the designs and FRG construction is quite
good for that 'era' of hand-laid construction. Tayanas are very
'honest' boats; certainly not the 'best' but are indeed well made
overall. In that respect they certainly give the best 'value'.

Preferentially for me the 460 looks more like a pregnant football than
a proper seagoing boat .... WINDAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would take an
extension ladder to ever get back on board if you ever fell
overboard!!!! To me this is a design targeted for 'luxury' than
'sailing'. Perhaps you should investigate the Robert Perry , Robb Ladd
designs and the other Harris designs also offered by Tayana. Geeze
whats wrong with the 42, the 48, the 48DS or the 52 .... these are
'proven' world cruisers. http://www.tayanayachts.com.tw Dont simply
be led by 'accomodations' and 'floor plan' to be the ruling criteria
for an ocean going boat .... unless your chief objective is 'dockside
entertaining' and status symbolism.


In article t,
wrote:

t

Rich Hampel wrote:
Mr. Neil must have some 'very strange biases' as probably more
Tayanas have successfully circumnavigated than probably from any
other semi-custom manufacturer ('cept Valiant).

I have a Tayana, can attest that the metalurgy of the older boats is
not always up to par; but, the designs and FRG construction is quite
good for that 'era' of hand-laid construction. Tayanas are very
'honest' boats; certainly not the 'best' but are indeed well made
overall. In that respect they certainly give the best 'value'.

Preferentially for me the 460 looks more like a pregnant football than
a proper seagoing boat .... WINDAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would take an
extension ladder to ever get back on board if you ever fell
overboard!!!! To me this is a design targeted for 'luxury' than
'sailing'. Perhaps you should investigate the Robert Perry , Robb Ladd
designs and the other Harris designs also offered by Tayana. Geeze
whats wrong with the 42, the 48, the 48DS or the 52 .... these are
'proven' world cruisers. http://www.tayanayachts.com.tw Dont simply
be led by 'accomodations' and 'floor plan' to be the ruling criteria
for an ocean going boat .... unless your chief objective is 'dockside
entertaining' and status symbolism.

Are you suggesting that the 460 is unsafe or just doesn't sail well ?

If it's the latter then it doesn't mean much to me. I would rather
have 3 staterooms plus a salon and a pilothouse than be able to go
a few knots faster.

So this is about 'luxury' and not about 'boats'. Maybe you should
simply buy some ocean side property or a converted barge with a house
built on the deck. If you want luxury, charter a boat that already has
a professional/paid crew/servants. I erroneously took your request for
info to be serious request about 'boats', not luxury.

In article . net,
wrote:

Rich Hampel wrote:
Mr. Neil must have some 'very strange biases' as probably more
Tayanas have successfully circumnavigated than probably from any
other semi-custom manufacturer ('cept Valiant).

I have a Tayana, can attest that the metalurgy of the older boats is
not always up to par; but, the designs and FRG construction is quite
good for that 'era' of hand-laid construction. Tayanas are very
'honest' boats; certainly not the 'best' but are indeed well made
overall. In that respect they certainly give the best 'value'.

Preferentially for me the 460 looks more like a pregnant football than
a proper seagoing boat .... WINDAGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!! It would take an
extension ladder to ever get back on board if you ever fell
overboard!!!! To me this is a design targeted for 'luxury' than
'sailing'. Perhaps you should investigate the Robert Perry , Robb Ladd
designs and the other Harris designs also offered by Tayana. Geeze
whats wrong with the 42, the 48, the 48DS or the 52 .... these are
'proven' world cruisers. http://www.tayanayachts.com.tw Dont simply
be led by 'accomodations' and 'floor plan' to be the ruling criteria
for an ocean going boat .... unless your chief objective is 'dockside
entertaining' and status symbolism.

Are you suggesting that the 460 is unsafe or just doesn't sail well ?

If it's the latter then it doesn't mean much to me. I would rather
have 3 staterooms plus a salon and a pilothouse than be able to go
a few knots faster.