"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On 28 Dec 2005 12:34:44 -0800, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

lots and lots of smaller boats cross the pond with no
problems whatsoever.

===============================

That's true. I know a guy who went round trip in a J-35 one summer.

That doesn't make it the right boat though.

For what it's worth, he bought an Endeavor 42 after that.

No doubt, but it doesn't make it wrong either. It depends on a lot of
factors, and from my experience, C&Cs are up to the task if properly laid
out. Structurally, generally of course, they're fine.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"rhys" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 14:28:06 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

A nicely balanced reply.... I mostly agree, although I think it wouldn't
take that much to fit her for a crossing, given all else is right.

Well, thanks. C&C 33s are very common at my club and on Lake Ontario
in general, and while they are fine boats and can take 40 knots in a
squall...I just don't think there's enough beef to keep the sea out in
the original configuration. Particularly the portlights and the
hatches...as I am currently replacing these on my similarly aged boat,
I just don't a quarter-inch of 7x 21" plexi staying in its frame if
hit on the beam...

Every C&C I've been on had hatch problems, but fixable.

They're fine boats, though...just not equipped for three weeks in the
North Atlantic. Also, being old fin keelers, they don't hove to
particularly well, and you wouldn't want to take on much water in
those flat bilges.

Hmm... actually, my experience has been that they do fine. I've sailed on
the 40, 38, 36, and 34 of various ages and general conditions, but that
wasn't a problem I observed.

You know something, though? If the choice is between going and not
going, maybe you should hop to St. John's, Nfld. and see how it goes
inshore. If you find it acceptable and the boat well-found enough,
then you can do the 2,000 mile hop to Ireland...which is colder, but
shorter.

I believe in sea trials.....

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:18:40 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Structurally, generally of course, they're fine.

====================================

I agree but that is only one consideration. As I said originally it
is not the boat that I'd pick, and I stated my reasons.

Have you ever sailed offshore on an unsuited boat? It does not have
to fall apart to be unsuitable, a squirrelly motion in a seaway will
do it, so will flat shallow bilges that flood the cabin sole, so will
inadequate tankage that requires carrying fuel and water on deck,
likewise inadequate storage space, or inadequate battery and charging
capacity.

Most coastal racer/cruisers will fail on the majority of these points
and the C&C 33 is no exception. That doesn't make it a bad boat, just
one that's not particularly well suited for crossing oceans.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:05:10 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

Unless we hit the lottery, we intend to keep Xan until after we've done
at least 3 months in the Bahamas or similar to see if we like living
aboard.

==========================================

You raise an interesting point there. A boat that is well suited for
living aboard is not necessarily the right one for crossing oceans. I
agree with your other point that so few people actually cross oceans
in small sail boats that it does not make sense to purchase a boat for
that purpose unless you are really going to do it.

Most people get a very quick reality check after spending a few days
going to windward on the open ocean, and quickly change their mind
regarding the "right" boat.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:05:10 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:


In the meantime, our "wish list" for that long distance cruiser has
changed many times and the cruising kitty's building quickly while we're
having a HECK of a lot of fun. There's a lot to be said about not paying
the bank interest and having a tough, simple boat that's cheap to
maintain.

That's why I suggested a Contessa or a Westsail. But I also said "go
and see", even though, having taken out a sister ship in 40 knots of
Lake Ontario (which is harsh weather with square, three/four metre
pounding waves, not long swells or rollers), I would question the
amount of exhaustion a boat of this type might dish out.

Having few ways to comfortably "park" in a blow would be a bigger
problem than most of the more or less remediable ? issues, like
stronger hatches and small tankage.

I will say one thing: I would take a 25 year old C&C over most of
today's production boats. Those big cockpits and companionways and
wide saloons would give me the heebies in a high sea.

R.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 00:18:40 -0800, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

Structurally, generally of course, they're fine.

====================================

I agree but that is only one consideration. As I said originally it
is not the boat that I'd pick, and I stated my reasons.

Have you ever sailed offshore on an unsuited boat? It does not have
to fall apart to be unsuitable, a squirrelly motion in a seaway will
do it, so will flat shallow bilges that flood the cabin sole, so will
inadequate tankage that requires carrying fuel and water on deck,
likewise inadequate storage space, or inadequate battery and charging
capacity.

Most coastal racer/cruisers will fail on the majority of these points
and the C&C 33 is no exception. That doesn't make it a bad boat, just
one that's not particularly well suited for crossing oceans.

No. I wouldn't do that. If I thought the boat was unsuitable, I wouldn't go.

In my experience, the C&Cs are not "squirrelly in a seaway. They are, in
fact, seakindly. They're generally stiff, fast, and well-built... sounds
like my ex... anyway... I wouldn't hesitate to take one offshore, assuming
maintenance was kept up.

I took a CT 48 down the coast from SF to Cabo non-stop. Even it did not have
sufficient tankage to drive the whole way without gerry cans on deck. I took
a Sparkmans and Stephens steel 61 foot long distance in the Med and it
didn't have sufficient water storage.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

In article ,
Wayne.B wrote:

On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 06:05:10 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

Unless we hit the lottery, we intend to keep Xan until after we've done
at least 3 months in the Bahamas or similar to see if we like living
aboard.

You raise an interesting point there. A boat that is well suited for
living aboard is not necessarily the right one for crossing oceans. I
agree with your other point that so few people actually cross oceans
in small sail boats that it does not make sense to purchase a boat for
that purpose unless you are really going to do it.

Most people get a very quick reality check after spending a few days
going to windward on the open ocean, and quickly change their mind
regarding the "right" boat.

Personally, I'd choose a boat that has the least flaws for the 90% of
what we do over one that had the best sailing qualities. The right set
of sails can make any reasonably-strong boat acceptable, even if not
ideal.

To my mind, being able to live together aboard the boat is a primary
consideration, mostly because my lady isn't sure she could stand being
with me 24/7 in such a confined space -- and let's acknowledge that even
a 60' cat can get pretty small for two.

We did quite well on a 25-day trip, but knowing that we *were* returning
might have helped. From what I've heard and read, it's only after a year
or so on an open-ended cruise that a crew really knows whether they can
live aboard in harmony.

The other aspect of liveaboard is that long distance cruisers spend
90-95% of their time on the hook by actual survey (Cornell, at least).
Understanding what's required to enjoy that vs. what would be nice can
only be gained by doing. [In the tropics, dryers are the #1 most-useless
addition, closely followed by ovens.]

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:41:20 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

The other aspect of liveaboard is that long distance cruisers spend
90-95% of their time on the hook by actual survey (Cornell, at least).

And another 5 to 8% is spent under power. Here in SWFL it's more like
5 to 10%.

"Commodore Joe Redcloud" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 20:06:23 -0500, Wayne.B

wrote:

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 00:41:20 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

The other aspect of liveaboard is that long distance cruisers spend
90-95% of their time on the hook by actual survey (Cornell, at least).

And another 5 to 8% is spent under power. Here in SWFL it's more like
5 to 10%.

Let's try to get back to answering the actual question posed: Is crossing
the
Atlantic in a C&C 33 impossible or not. Yes or No. The question was not, "
is it
the best boat to go in?", or if it would be a piece of cake. The question
was:
WILL THIS MODEL BOAT MAKE THE CROSSING?

I think you can assume the poster has considered that whatever boat he
takes
will have to be in top shape for the trip.

If he only wants a safe trip with the minimum of discomfort, he'll be
taking a
commercial airliner.


Actually, the original poster, probably long since gone on his sailing
adventure, wrote:

"Looking for opinions on whether or not one thinks that a C&C 33 is
capable of handling big oceans. The C&C has a fin keel drawing 5.5'
with a free standing spade rudder. Should making a transatlantic
passage even be considered?
Thanks for any advice and/or opinion.
Rob"

The C&C 33, given it is in decent shape and fitted for the journey, and
given the skipper is aware of its limitations both of the vessel, himself,
and his crew, is certainly capable of handling big oceans.

A transatlantic journey should be considered if the boat/skipper/crew is
prepared properly.

Many opinions were given, most of them valid.

I don't even think the boat need be in "top shap" to make it safely. It
needs to be in decent shape, but top shape implies zero problems, and there
aren't any boats I know about that have that characteristic.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Fri, 30 Dec 2005 01:50:18 GMT, Commodore Joe Redcloud
wrote:

The question was:
WILL THIS MODEL BOAT MAKE THE CROSSING?

==========================================

And the answer of course is definitely maybe. At best it will be a
cold wet ride in a small boat. The wrong small boat in my opinion,
but people have done it in less and lived to tell about it. A lot of
people who ask questions like this have never been offshore in a small
boat and have rose colored glasses on regarding the whole experience.

It's my opinion, for what ever that is worth, that they should hear
the downside as well. Crossing oceans in a 33 ft boat should not be
taken lightly, especially in a boat that is not paticularly well
suited for the job. The C&C 33 for all of its fine qualities was not
designed and built as a passagemaker, and its designers would be the
first to tell you that if asked.