Being a former vertical caver, I use a system of prusik knots to ascend
my mast. The advantages of prusiks is that they are inexpensive and
nearly foolproof. You must have a seat harness which you can tie from
a piece of 1" webbing as a so-called "diaper sling". You must also
have a chest harness attached to the seat harness. You have a prusik
on each foot and one on your chest. You sit relaxed hanging from the
chest loop, raise each foot prusik in sequence then stand up while
sliding the chest prusik. Sounds complicated but I have climbed out of
a 1000' pit this way.
I personally do not like mechanical ascendars because they allow
foolish people to get in trouble. They seem too easy to use and I have
seen people make serious mistakes with them.
Remember, you MUST have both a chest and seat harness and they MUST be
attached to each other at the front, otherwise you can end up hanging
by your feet.

Nice link - thanks. Not knowing about climbing (or I wouldn't have to ask
these stupid questions), what makes it uncomfortable and sticky? Another
correspondent in another (list) group prefers this one. Of course each to
his or her own - but this is the type of input I'm looking for; what works
and doesn't work, to our purpose.

How's it sit? How is it for extended time aloft?

Thanks again.

L8R

Skip

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain
"Gary" wrote in message
news:Y7Hpf.30972$2k.8103@pd7tw1no...
Skip Gundlach wrote:
"krj" wrote in message
...

Did you look at the web site? Play the video? It is a boson's chair to
sit in when you get up where you want to be. Stand in the stirups, push
the chair attachment up the rope, sit in the chair, push the stirups up,
stand up, push the chair up. Do that until you get to the point you want
to work. Sit in the chair to work unless you need to work over the
masthead, then stand in the stirups.
krj


I have, in the past.

I'm also aware of similar methods of ascent in climbing gear, very highly
recommeded by climbers who are also sailors. I've not yet decided how I
want to get up - but I was thinking in terms of what to wear when I got
there.

This is the sort of thing I had in mind:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...cat=REI_SEARCH

L8R

Skip

That is for canyoneering, very uncomfortable and sticky.

This is what I have (left over from climbing)

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...ory_rn=4500671

Skip Gundlach wrote:
Nice link - thanks. Not knowing about climbing (or I wouldn't have to ask
these stupid questions), what makes it uncomfortable and sticky? Another
correspondent in another (list) group prefers this one. Of course each to
his or her own - but this is the type of input I'm looking for; what works
and doesn't work, to our purpose.

How's it sit? How is it for extended time aloft?

Thanks again.

L8R

Skip

It is a climbing harness not a seat so it doesn't feel the same as a
hard seat. But remember, climbers wear them for days and frequently use
hanging belays. It's not bad especially if you can get your feet rested
out in front of you.

The Canyon harness is not meant for the same thing. It is designed for
working in moving water on rivers and the plastic/rubber seat is for
that. The seat is extra durable and snag free for when they slide down
steep cliffs and water run offs. It would probably work but I have
always used climbing harnesses so I guess I am bias.

I guess, in a nut shell, modern climbing harnesses are designed to hang
around working in all day. You can't fall out of them. They can be
used as a lifeline harness. They are certified to some extraordinary
strength by the UIAA (unlike bosun's chairs).

I trust them.

Gaz

Skip Gundlach wrote:
I'm also aware of similar methods of ascent in climbing gear, very highly
recommeded by climbers who are also sailors. I've not yet decided how I
want to get up - but I was thinking in terms of what to wear when I got
there.

This is the sort of thing I had in mind:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...cat=REI_SEARCH

I use a modified sport climbing harness. It is the type
without any padding. Not comfy for more than about 10
minutes hanging in it. So I sewed in some padding to the
harness. Now it's good for 20-30 minutes before the
pressure in your thighs gets a bit much.

I think the one you have found is much better. The seat
looks very comfy and Petzl is a trusted name in climbing
harnesses.

I think Brion Toss' one is rather overpriced for a extra
padded climbing harness.

I love climbing harnesses compared to a old style plank
chair. You can't fall out of them and they attach lower
down your body, a great advantage when working at the
masthead so you can get to the TOP of the mast.

Next time i go up I will bring a few little slings and make
some prussik steps so I can stand at the masthead and
relieve the pressure on my thighs.

Evan Gatehouse

Gary wrote:
Skip Gundlach wrote:

Nice link - thanks. Not knowing about climbing (or I wouldn't have to
ask these stupid questions), what makes it uncomfortable and sticky?
Another correspondent in another (list) group prefers this one. Of
course each to his or her own - but this is the type of input I'm
looking for; what works and doesn't work, to our purpose.

How's it sit? How is it for extended time aloft?

Thanks again.

L8R

Skip

It is a climbing harness not a seat so it doesn't feel the same as a
hard seat. But remember, climbers wear them for days and frequently use
hanging belays. It's not bad especially if you can get your feet rested
out in front of you.

The Canyon harness is not meant for the same thing. It is designed for
working in moving water on rivers and the plastic/rubber seat is for
that. The seat is extra durable and snag free for when they slide down
steep cliffs and water run offs. It would probably work but I have
always used climbing harnesses so I guess I am bias.

I guess, in a nut shell, modern climbing harnesses are designed to hang
around working in all day. You can't fall out of them. They can be
used as a lifeline harness. They are certified to some extraordinary
strength by the UIAA (unlike bosun's chairs).

I trust them.

Gaz

I didn't understand what the harness Skip found was for -
I'll retract my comment about it being comfortable for
hanging around. Basically find a climbing harness with lots
of padding, in both the legs and waist, that is meant for
aid climbing, where it is assumed you will do more hanging
from it.

Evan Gatehouse

Evan Gatehouse wrote:

Skip Gundlach wrote:
I'm also aware of similar methods of ascent in climbing gear, very highly
recommeded by climbers who are also sailors. I've not yet decided how I
want to get up - but I was thinking in terms of what to wear when I got
there.

Bob found the bosn's chair that came with our boat VERY uncomfortable.
So he got a climbing harness from Mountain Gear that he likes very
much. It is much cheaper than the very similar rigger's harness stuff
that is available in marine outlets.

This is the sort of thing I had in mind:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Prod...cat=REI_SEARCH

I use a modified sport climbing harness. It is the type
without any padding. Not comfy for more than about 10
minutes hanging in it. So I sewed in some padding to the
harness. Now it's good for 20-30 minutes before the
pressure in your thighs gets a bit much.

I think the one you have found is much better. The seat
looks very comfy and Petzl is a trusted name in climbing
harnesses.

I think Brion Toss' one is rather overpriced for a extra
padded climbing harness.

I love climbing harnesses compared to a old style plank
chair. You can't fall out of them and they attach lower
down your body, a great advantage when working at the
masthead so you can get to the TOP of the mast.

Next time i go up I will bring a few little slings and make
some prussik steps so I can stand at the masthead and
relieve the pressure on my thighs.

Evan Gatehouse

grandma Rosalie

Strangely, I cannot find any websites that show how to make caving
harnesses or how to tie prusiks. I learned it all before the internet
but you might try a few caving books. I have done both rock climbing
and caving and caving techniques are closer to what you need to climb
your mast. Rock climbing harnesses are not meant for rope climbing so
I reccomend caving style harnesses. A rock climbing harness is
intended to support you when you fall off the rock while a caving
ahrness is meant to support you WHILE YOU CLIMB THE ROPE. (cavers
rarely climb vertical rocks cuz rocks in caves are so rotten).
For a caving style harness, you want the connection tween seat and
chest harness to be short enough to be uncomfortable when you stand
(Really). This connection is usually made with a short webbing loop
and carabiner. Your chest prusik needs to be as short as possible so
it holds you close to the rope. Your foot loops and prusiks need to
come to mid thigh.
Every time I climbed, I thought "This is really uncomforatble walking
around in and looks like some sort of S&M thing" but as soon as I was
on rope I was amazed at how comfy it was (its a fear thing). As far as
long term comfort goes, I once spent 2.5 hours hanging in my harness
climbing out of a 1000' pit (people above me were slow) and was as
comfortable as you can be hanging 500' above the cave floor.
Never trust your life to a sailboat rope clutch, tie the rope to a
cleat. I don't trust ANY rope that has been out in the weahter for a
few years so I always go up the main halyard while using the jib
halyard as a safety rope also tied to my harness. This safety rope
goes around a winch many times with the person holding the end having
specific instructions to PAY ATTENTION. Always have your partner check
your harness before you climb. Never allow anybody to stand below
while you are up the mast (You will drop stuff).
When you go up, haul your tools up in a bucket below you. You might
want to tie a prusik with a loop to the jib halyard when you are up
there to allow you to step up just a few more inches to see over the
masthead.
Do not allow your partner to lower you. Instead, prusik down. When
you are on rope, NEVER cut a rope. People who get tangled tend to want
to cut things and often manage to cut the rope they are on.
My advice for what its worth.

masthead.
Do not allow your partner to lower you. Instead, prusik down. When
you are on rope, NEVER cut a rope. People who get tangled tend to want
to cut things and often manage to cut the rope they are on.
My advice for what its worth.

I'll tell a story as a little reminder of when things go
wrong. I was freeing up a stuck bolt at the masthead with a
propane torch. Smelled something funny. Stopped doing what
I was doing. Looked at the rope halyard holding me up -
melted 1/2 way through (3/8" rope). Also melted through the
spare halyard holding as a safety line.

"Lower me extra gently" was the call...

Evan Gatehouse

Skip Gundlach wrote:
Well, up the mast, anyway!

This has probably been covered to death, but I think I recall discussions in
this space before about improvements on the typical bosun chair to the
effect of good mountain climbing gear.

Looking at climbing harnesses on REI, a frequently mentioned retailer of
such stuff, the harnesses I see don't look the least bit like I'd have
expected.

Are there any here with experience in this sort of gear? What should we look
for for up-the-mast use (in place of the bosun chair, of which I have a fine
one, but this is supposed to be far superior in comfort and safety)?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip and Lydia, off to the boat on Friday to work during the holiday week


If you want a climbing harness get one designed for big wall climbing.
Misty Mountains Cadillac model is nice
http://www.mistymountain.com/harness.htm

Black Diamond makes nice harnesses as well
http://www.bdel.com/gear/harnesses_overview.php

Make your prusiks from 5/16" nylon braid or stiff 3-stranded nylon. Do
not use webbing material, it slips.
You might try Intermountain Sports (or maybe its Inner Mountain sports)
as they seem to be the latest caver supply place. The place to buy
cave stuff used to be Bob & Bob but I have no idea if they still exist.
You could sew your own, I did and it has been in and out of the deepest
pits in the world under gawdawful conditions. Use one of those sewing
awl things with a bobbin in it (Brand Name is "The Speedy Stitcher").
BE CAREFUL and dont be a dead macho moron.