Chuck Cox wrote in
t:

We have no intention of competing with Honda, we will only proceed with
this project if our market research indicates we have found a true
niche. I see no reason why someone might not have both products for
different purposes.



You mean like this?
http://www.nextgenerationpower.com/Main.html

I know someone who used to own a canvas shop and got the dealership for
this Kubota-tractor-powered little genset. They worked great, turned slow,
and I don't think she ever had one that broke! I see on the webpage they
FINALLY got some belt guards on the fanbelts for the water pump and
generator drive pulleys.....a good thing.

I never heard one in the case, though.

Yes, but at $6K-$7K not under $1K such as these folks are suggesting...for a
much smaller unit.

Glenn.
s/v Seawing
www.seawing.net


"Larry" wrote in message
...
Chuck Cox wrote in
t:

We have no intention of competing with Honda, we will only proceed with
this project if our market research indicates we have found a true
niche. I see no reason why someone might not have both products for
different purposes.



You mean like this?
http://www.nextgenerationpower.com/Main.html

I know someone who used to own a canvas shop and got the dealership for
this Kubota-tractor-powered little genset. They worked great, turned
slow,
and I don't think she ever had one that broke! I see on the webpage they
FINALLY got some belt guards on the fanbelts for the water pump and
generator drive pulleys.....a good thing.

I never heard one in the case, though.

Glenn A. Heslop wrote:
Yes, but at $6K-$7K not under $1K such as these folks are suggesting...for a
much smaller unit.

Yeah, what he said. Plus, our design generates DC directly and is
optimized for battery charging loads, making it much more efficient for
charging.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com
,
my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK

On Wed, 01 Mar 2006 10:54:07 -0500, Chuck Cox
wrote:

Yeah, what he said. Plus, our design generates DC directly and is
optimized for battery charging loads, making it much more efficient for
charging.

If the size and price are attractive, and it sounds like they are,
people will buy it. Probably your biggest challenge will be to get it
into the best distribution channels, which will also require good
after market support or they will drop you.

You will not believe the weird things that some people will try to do
with a unit like this and then expect it to keep on ticking. Just for
openers I would be prepared for a number of accidental reverse
polarity incidents. Then you've got the folks who will try to use it
indoors with the usual result, followed by the accidental muffler
burns, fires, salt water immersion, etc.

Wayne.B wrote:

You will not believe the weird things that some people will try to do
with a unit like this and then expect it to keep on ticking. Just for
openers I would be prepared for a number of accidental reverse
polarity incidents. Then you've got the folks who will try to use it
indoors with the usual result, followed by the accidental muffler
burns, fires, salt water immersion, etc.

I know, that is what worries me most about this product. Since it
incorporates a microcontroller, we intend to record diagnostic events,
so hopefully we can detect abuse. We will certainly incorporate
automatic protection for reversed polarity, shorts, over-voltage,
over-current, over-temperature, etc, etc. If we want to sell in
California I think we have to add a warning that it isn't safe to eat.

I once attended a symposium where a ladder manufacturer explained the
stupid user actions behind each warning sticker. I am wary, and our
insurance agent could easily crush this product if it increases our
insurance costs significantly beyond what we have already budgeted for.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com
,
my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK

Chuck Cox wrote:
Wayne.B wrote:
[snip]
I know, that is what worries me most about this product. Since it
incorporates a microcontroller, we intend to record diagnostic events,
so hopefully we can detect abuse. We will certainly incorporate
automatic protection for reversed polarity, shorts, over-voltage,
over-current, over-temperature, etc, etc. If we want to sell in
California I think we have to add a warning that it isn't safe to eat.

I once attended a symposium where a ladder manufacturer explained the
stupid user actions behind each warning sticker. I am wary, and our
insurance agent could easily crush this product if it increases our
insurance costs significantly beyond what we have already budgeted for.

i admit i have done the reverse-polarity thing before. after doing a
big install of radios in the truck i removed the deep cycle batteries
so that i could install a little battery shelf i had made and service
the batteries while i had them out. i was just finishing the install,
putting heat shrink tubing on all the wires, soldering connectors on
where i just had twisted wires, that kind of thing, and damn wouldn't
you know it ... i put one of the deep cycle batteries into the truck
backwards. i hooked the positive terminal up to the ground ... then i
reached over, grabbed the hot wire, and hooked it to the negative
terminal, and there was a huge ARC of electricity, like i was trying to
do some welding. i hadn't gotten to the second battery yet, the first
one was the one that was backwards from how it had been installed
before.

you can imagine the result, burned out both radios and an audio
amplifier, basically everything i had been installing that week. had
to send one radio back to the manufacturer, had to replace the
amplifier, and took the other radio to a cb shop where a guy soldered
it's melted board back together. he had to replace a coil and rebuild
some of the traces on the circuit board. amazingly the manufacturer,
even with a note describing that it was totally my fault, fixed the
other radio and sent it back without any charge at all. i didn't even
feel it was their responsibility. also the amplifier salesman replaced
the busted amplifier (that i got locally) with another one without
charge. in the end the only thing i had to pay for was the soldering
job the guy at the cb shop had to do. in some ways i sort of felt like
they should fix it though because reverse polarity just happens
sometimes, and the radios should have burned a fuse or something
instead of relying on a surface mount diode that isn't easilly replaced.

"Chuck Cox" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote:

You will not believe the weird things that some people will try to do
with a unit like this and then expect it to keep on ticking. Just for
openers I would be prepared for a number of accidental reverse
polarity incidents. Then you've got the folks who will try to use it
indoors with the usual result, followed by the accidental muffler
burns, fires, salt water immersion, etc.

I know, that is what worries me most about this product. Since it
incorporates a microcontroller, we intend to record diagnostic events, so
hopefully we can detect abuse. We will certainly incorporate automatic
protection for reversed polarity, shorts, over-voltage, over-current,
over-temperature, etc, etc. If we want to sell in California I think we
have to add a warning that it isn't safe to eat.

I once attended a symposium where a ladder manufacturer explained the
stupid user actions behind each warning sticker. I am wary, and our
insurance agent could easily crush this product if it increases our
insurance costs significantly beyond what we have already budgeted for.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com
,
my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK

I've been following with interest your market research for this little
generator. It sounds like a great product technically, but I think Wayne
may have hit upon the real world implications of it's use as a consumer type
product. Your small company will need to resolve problems that arise from
some customers with no technical comprehension of what they are doing and
somehow maintain a good reputation for responsive service. Not to throw a
wet blanket on the concept, because it's good, but this is a prime example
of something that will require product liability insurance. Depending on who
you chose to underwrite a policy, it may force you to jack the price up
significantly.

Not to be nosey - and no need to answer if it's none of my business - but
how are you funded? I have the impression of a small, startup company
somehow connected to a university (Harvard). At some point in the
development and introduction of this generator the question will come up.
Is the development privately funded? How do you intend to market it? (May
cost much more than the development costs).

BTW, I am sure you realize that there are other consumer markets for a
product like this that may be bigger than the boating industry.

RCE

RCE wrote:

I've been following with interest your market research for this little
generator. It sounds like a great product technically, but I think Wayne
may have hit upon the real world implications of it's use as a consumer type
product. Your small company will need to resolve problems that arise from
some customers with no technical comprehension of what they are doing and
somehow maintain a good reputation for responsive service. Not to throw a
wet blanket on the concept, because it's good, but this is a prime example
of something that will require product liability insurance. Depending on who
you chose to underwrite a policy, it may force you to jack the price up
significantly.

That is true. We have priced in a certain amount of insurance, but our
estimates could be wrong. There is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem
in regards to product insurance pricing because you can't get a real
quote until you have a real prototype and solid price-point.

Not to be nosey - and no need to answer if it's none of my business - but
how are you funded?

We are privately funded. We have a small group of loyal investors that
we have been good to over the last 22 years.

I have the impression of a small, startup company
somehow connected to a university (Harvard).

SynchroSystems is not affiliated with any University although we have
good relations with local schools because we occasionally hire interns
to help us with non-technical stuff. I am a (very) part-time undergrad
degree candidate at Harvard, hence my backup email address. My partner
is an alumni of the trade school down the street (MIT), so we have close
ties to those schools, but nothing official.

We are small, but since we were founded in 1984, I'm not sure if we are
a start-up. Although our in-house product development is new, we have
been developing products for other companies for 22 years.

At some point in the
development and introduction of this generator the question will come up.
Is the development privately funded?

Yes.

How do you intend to market it? (May
cost much more than the development costs).

That depends on what our market research indicates. We will certainly
sell online, but other details remain TBD. A certain amount of
marketing expense has already been priced in, but our market research
will help refine that number. This is the kind of thing we hire an MBA
student to figure out for us.

BTW, I am sure you realize that there are other consumer markets for a
product like this that may be bigger than the boating industry.

Yes, this is really just a variation on something else we are working on
for a non-boating application.

--
Chuck Cox - SynchroSystems - Synchro.com
,
my email is politician-proof, just remove the PORK