On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 19:41:44 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

Any of you guys interested in a few hundred feet of 5/8 or 3/4 3 strand at a
bit under full spool prices?

==================================

Not me at the moment but I am interested in finding a high quality,
galvanized, double jaw swivel capable of connecting my Spade S200 to
3/8 HT chain without sacrificing any strength (SWL 5500 lbs).

"Wayne.B" wrote

Not me at the moment but I am interested in finding a high quality,
galvanized, double jaw swivel capable of connecting my Spade S200 to
3/8 HT chain without sacrificing any strength (SWL 5500 lbs).

You and me both. I did get a lead yesterday from the guy at NE Rope and I
am going to track it down today. I'll let you know what I find out.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Do you really think a swivel is necessary ? Unless you are anchored for a
long time in a tidal current I wonder if it helps or hurts.

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:TEVif.40602$sg5.36630@dukeread12...

"Wayne.B" wrote

Not me at the moment but I am interested in finding a high quality,
galvanized, double jaw swivel capable of connecting my Spade S200 to
3/8 HT chain without sacrificing any strength (SWL 5500 lbs).

You and me both. I did get a lead yesterday from the guy at NE Rope and I
am going to track it down today. I'll let you know what I find out.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:05:41 -0500, "Garland Gray II"
wrote:

Do you really think a swivel is necessary ? Unless you are anchored for a
long time in a tidal current I wonder if it helps or hurts.

==============================================

I have found it necessary with an all chain rode and a windlass. This
is my second boat with that combination and have ended up adding a
swivel both times to avoid chain hockling and to ensure that the
anchor comes up straight over the pulpit roller and in the right
orientation.

What worries me is that they give you pin diameters but never seem to come
out with the actual breaking strength of the swivel. I am going to have to
buy some samples and have a friend with a testing lab pull them for me
before I will sell them. A swivel for 3/8" chain should make it to at least
15,000 pounds and I will bet none that I have found will do it.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:05:41 -0500, "Garland Gray II"
wrote:

Do you really think a swivel is necessary ? Unless you are anchored for a
long time in a tidal current I wonder if it helps or hurts.

==============================================

I have found it necessary with an all chain rode and a windlass. This
is my second boat with that combination and have ended up adding a
swivel both times to avoid chain hockling and to ensure that the
anchor comes up straight over the pulpit roller and in the right
orientation.

On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 23:04:53 -0500, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

A swivel for 3/8" chain should make it to at least
15,000 pounds and I will bet none that I have found will do it.

==================================

I share your concern but have not yet found one that claims to have an
"HT" or G40 rating. I'll be interested to hear about your findings.

Once you go over the SWL rating there is no guarantee that it will
still swivel of course, but it would be nice to know that your boat is
still attached.

Check out the WASI Powerball line at:
http://www.swisstech-america.com/powerball.html

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Nov 2005 21:05:41 -0500, "Garland Gray II"
wrote:

Do you really think a swivel is necessary ? Unless you are anchored for a
long time in a tidal current I wonder if it helps or hurts.

==============================================

I have found it necessary with an all chain rode and a windlass. This
is my second boat with that combination and have ended up adding a
swivel both times to avoid chain hockling and to ensure that the
anchor comes up straight over the pulpit roller and in the right
orientation.


I just don't get it - not that I'm disputing it, as many seem to have the
same problem...

From my limited perspective, it seems you'd have to be in a whirlpool, or on
the hook for months with a consistent direction of turn, to put any notable
number of turns on a chain.

Then, unless you've got a hundred feet out in a 10' anchorage, as you
brought up the anchor, just letting it hang a bit once it comes off the
bottom should unwind any turns you've accumulated.

If you've got substantial chain on the bottom, a swivel won't do you any
good until you tighten up, anyway, CF raising and waiting above.

What am I missing?

L8R

Skip, not experienced with that problem despite all-chain rodes

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:39:57 -0500, "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach at
gmail dotcom wrote:
From my limited perspective, it seems you'd have to be in a whirlpool, or on
the hook for months with a consistent direction of turn, to put any notable
number of turns on a chain.

That is definitely not the cause. We are rarely anchored more than a
day or two at a time, and hardly ever in whirlpools!

Then, unless you've got a hundred feet out in a 10' anchorage, as you
brought up the anchor, just letting it hang a bit once it comes off the
bottom should unwind any turns you've accumulated.


I believe that part of the problem occurrs when retrieving chain.

There seem to be some circumstances where the bow roller itself is a
possible culprit, trying to impart a small rotational force, probably
when the pull is slightly to one side.

There is another situation that can arise if you have a rode that is
partially 3 strand and partially chain. Under load, the 3 strand does
a certain amount of twisting and untwisting. That was an issue on my
old boat, and a swivel solved the problem.

If you've got substantial chain on the bottom, a swivel won't do you any
good until you tighten up, anyway, CF raising and waiting above.

What am I missing?

My biggest issue is with the anchor trying to come over the bow roller
sideways or backwards. This may be specific to my particular
configuration, but a swivel is definitely the cure.

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 1 Dec 2005 09:39:57 -0500, "Skip Gundlach" skipgundlach at
gmail dotcom wrote (earlier, quoted "" below):
I believe that part of the problem occurrs when retrieving chain.

There seem to be some circumstances where the bow roller itself is a
possible culprit, trying to impart a small rotational force, probably
when the pull is slightly to one side.

Hm. From the description, I infer a "catenary" twist - that is, the twist
is one way at one point and the other way going in the reverse - a twist
imparted by the roller. In that case, twist would interfere with the
retrieval immediately, and waiting for the swivel wouldn't make a
difference, as the windlass-roller twist wouldn't be influenced by the
roller-swivel portion (?) .

There is another situation that can arise if you have a rode that is
partially 3 strand and partially chain. Under load, the 3 strand does
a certain amount of twisting and untwisting. That was an issue on my
old boat, and a swivel solved the problem.

Agreed, 3-strand will most likely twist under load - but if you're
retrieving it under load, the 3-strand would bunch horribly in the locker,
I'd think, as the strain was relieved and the memory recovered the twists
(?) .

If you've got substantial chain on the bottom, a swivel won't do you any
good until you tighten up, anyway, CF raising and waiting above.

What am I missing?

My biggest issue is with the anchor trying to come over the bow roller
sideways or backwards. This may be specific to my particular
configuration, but a swivel is definitely the cure.

Hm. How (unless you're referring to just hanging, rather than kedging with
the windlass) would you get to sideways or backwards retrieval?

My modus only (not that others don't, but it's how I do it), I have the boat
go straight on the rode, not retrieving until it's very slack. If I
overshoot a bit, I wait to blow down, and then resume. Whether in my
chartering days, when it was always mostly 3-strand with minimal chain, or
privately owned boats, when it was always all chain, I've never had a
problem with twist. In the rare instance where I encounter an overlay, I
simply back it out the foot or so to let it go back over the roller and
start again.

As to the anchor itself, we have a CQR, and the weight always puts it nose
down, even if it tries to come aboard otherwise.

So, has Glenn succeeded in destroying any of these to see about their
strength relative to the chain itself? I read of many boats surviving
hurricanes whose chains are so distorted they'll no longer fit in the gypsy,
so I expect these swivels would cause serious deformation, or even failure,
of the chain before breaking, themselves. It also seems that putting a
serious load on, and then inducing twist, would be needed to do a
"true-life" test...

L8R

Skip, in 2xweekly rehab, and coming along toward return to the boat for more
work. New March and Post-July pix for those following, in the "Projects"
folder...


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Believe me, my young friend, there is *nothing*-absolutely nothing-half so
much worth doing as simply messing, messing-about-in-boats; messing about in
boats-or *with* boats.
In or out of 'em, it doesn't matter. Nothing seems really to matter, that's
the charm of it.
Whether you get away, or whether you don't; whether you arrive at your
destination or whether you reach somewhere else, or whether you never get
anywhere at all, you're always busy, and you never do anything in
particular; and when you've done it there's always something else to do, and
you can do it if you like, but you'd much better not."