as others have said
it is red on right when returning
your green river bouy may be a bit more challanging if the river is
open at both ends or if it is so long that you don't know which way is
returning. keep in mind that the bouy numbers go up when returning. One
of the best things to do is to get charts and see what the red and
green bouys are keeping you away from. then you begin to understand
what they mean
hope this helps

richard wrote:
as others have said
it is red on right when returning
your green river bouy may be a bit more challanging if the river is
open at both ends or if it is so long that you don't know which way is
returning. keep in mind that the bouy numbers go up when returning.
One of the best things to do is to get charts and see what the red and
green bouys are keeping you away from. then you begin to understand
what they mean
hope this helps

In Europe the direction of bouyage is the same direction as the flood tide,
and when entering a harbour or river mouth the bouyage is red-to-red and
green-to-green. Time the shipping world got together on this and agreed a
worldwide system.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:50:35 GMT, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote:

richard wrote:
as others have said
it is red on right when returning
your green river bouy may be a bit more challanging if the river is
open at both ends or if it is so long that you don't know which way is
returning. keep in mind that the bouy numbers go up when returning.
One of the best things to do is to get charts and see what the red and
green bouys are keeping you away from. then you begin to understand
what they mean
hope this helps

In Europe the direction of bouyage is the same direction as the flood tide,
and when entering a harbour or river mouth the bouyage is red-to-red and
green-to-green. Time the shipping world got together on this and agreed a
worldwide system.


But IALA A and IALA B are the result of the world getting together and
agreeing!

I undertand that IALA B, now used only by the US, its territories, and
its client states in Asia, was the original proposal. But the
Europeans were slow to understand the import of a unified marker
system. So they failed to support it. And then came IALA A and the
current mess.

Bil wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:50:35 GMT, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote:


richard wrote:

as others have said
it is red on right when returning
your green river bouy may be a bit more challanging if the river is
open at both ends or if it is so long that you don't know which way is
returning. keep in mind that the bouy numbers go up when returning.
One of the best things to do is to get charts and see what the red and
green bouys are keeping you away from. then you begin to understand
what they mean
hope this helps

In Europe the direction of bouyage is the same direction as the flood tide,
and when entering a harbour or river mouth the bouyage is red-to-red and
green-to-green. Time the shipping world got together on this and agreed a
worldwide system.



But IALA A and IALA B are the result of the world getting together and
agreeing!

I undertand that IALA B, now used only by the US, its territories, and
its client states in Asia, was the original proposal. But the
Europeans were slow to understand the import of a unified marker
system. So they failed to support it. And then came IALA A and the
current mess.
If IALA B came first it would be IALA A! The europeans had buoyage
systems in place when they discovered the Americas.

Gaz

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:12:41 GMT, Gary wrote:

Bil wrote:
On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 08:50:35 GMT, "Dennis Pogson"
wrote:


richard wrote:

as others have said
it is red on right when returning
your green river bouy may be a bit more challanging if the river is
open at both ends or if it is so long that you don't know which way is
returning. keep in mind that the bouy numbers go up when returning.
One of the best things to do is to get charts and see what the red and
green bouys are keeping you away from. then you begin to understand
what they mean
hope this helps

In Europe the direction of bouyage is the same direction as the flood tide,
and when entering a harbour or river mouth the bouyage is red-to-red and
green-to-green. Time the shipping world got together on this and agreed a
worldwide system.



But IALA A and IALA B are the result of the world getting together and
agreeing!

I undertand that IALA B, now used only by the US, its territories, and
its client states in Asia, was the original proposal. But the
Europeans were slow to understand the import of a unified marker
system. So they failed to support it. And then came IALA A and the
current mess.
If IALA B came first it would be IALA A! The europeans had buoyage
systems in place when they discovered the Americas.

Gaz

How old are you, Gaz? Older or younger than 35?

Buoyage was in a mess, in terms of the lack of existence of a 'system'
or 'systems' until the 1970s. Cynics would argue it's still in a mess,
just that the mess has superficial order imposed on it.

IALA, then the International Association of Lighthouse Authorities
(they've since renamed themselves, see http://www.iala-aism.org),
started agitating for a single world system in about 1965. Nothing
happened.

A shipping accident off France in 1971, associated with
misunderstanding of European buoyage 'systems' (or lack thereof),
stimulated the final push that come up with two systems of lateral
markers - the two systems, you guessed it, differed in how they used
red and green markers.

The first system (now called B) seemed close to acceptance until the
final vote. Then the system now called A was put to the vote. The
'wise' men couldn't agree, so we now have System A and System B.

The A and B monikers are there because those pushing for green to
starboard when heading for a major port had their proposal in 'final'
form first (but that was a couple of years after the debacle of the
voting rounds, proving yet again that we cannot just all get along).
AFAIK, System B was only in 'final' form in 1980 or thereabouts.

Cheers

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 18:23:48 +0800, Bil wrote:



But IALA A and IALA B are the result of the world getting together and
agreeing!

I undertand that IALA B, now used only by the US, its territories, and
its client states in Asia, was the original proposal. But the
Europeans were slow to understand the import of a unified marker
system. So they failed to support it. And then came IALA A and the
current mess.

As I understand it, IALA is a committee of government committees -
since they agreed that an international standard for such an important
safety item would be a good idea, they decided that _two_ standards
would be better. :-)

IALA system B is used in all of North and South America and the
Caribbean, and in Japan, Korea, and the Philippines, according to a
map in a Canadian Coast Guard publication on Aids to Navigation.



--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

richard wrote:
as others have said
it is red on right when returning
your green river bouy may be a bit more challanging if the river is
open at both ends or if it is so long that you don't know which way is
returning. keep in mind that the bouy numbers go up when returning. One
of the best things to do is to get charts and see what the red and
green bouys are keeping you away from. then you begin to understand
what they mean
hope this helps

Very good advice. That's why a Power Squadron 'Boating' & then
'Piloting' couse are necessary. Learn how to read a chart.

On 10 Nov 2005 20:32:40 -0800, "richard"
wrote:

as others have said
it is red on right when returning
your green river bouy may be a bit more challanging if the river is
open at both ends or if it is so long that you don't know which way is
returning. keep in mind that the bouy numbers go up when returning. One
of the best things to do is to get charts and see what the red and
green bouys are keeping you away from. then you begin to understand
what they mean
hope this helps

Indeed - read the chart to see _why_ the buoy is where it is, and if
it matters to you. Buoys are often placed to mark things that would
be hazards to larger commercial vessels, so may often be ignored by
small pleasure craft.

Also, sometimes even the Coast Guard isn't sure whether a particular
hazard should have a port or starboard hand marker. There is one
daybeacon locally that was initially installed as a Port Hand (green)
mark (it is on the port side of a small bay, where there was a
marina). A month or two later, it was changed to starboard (red), as
it is on the starboard side of Howe Sound,, and commercial traffic in
Howe Sound would leave it to starboard. Another month or two later,
it was changed back to port, as it is so close to shore that the
commercial guys wouldn't even notice it, and the only people concerned
were the marina customers.



--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca

Peter Bennett wrote:


Indeed - read the chart to see _why_ the buoy is where it is, and if
it matters to you. Buoys are often placed to mark things that would
be hazards to larger commercial vessels, so may often be ignored by
small pleasure craft.

Also, sometimes even the Coast Guard isn't sure whether a particular
hazard should have a port or starboard hand marker. There is one
daybeacon locally that was initially installed as a Port Hand (green)
mark (it is on the port side of a small bay, where there was a
marina). A month or two later, it was changed to starboard (red), as
it is on the starboard side of Howe Sound,, and commercial traffic in
Howe Sound would leave it to starboard. Another month or two later,
it was changed back to port, as it is so close to shore that the
commercial guys wouldn't even notice it, and the only people concerned
were the marina customers.



In this case, I wonder if a Cardinal Buoy would have been more
practical.... the yellow/black colour scheme plus buoy top shape would
tell if danger is north/south/east/west of buoy.

On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:01:27 GMT, Don White
wrote:

Peter Bennett wrote:

Also, sometimes even the Coast Guard isn't sure whether a particular
hazard should have a port or starboard hand marker. There is one
daybeacon locally that was initially installed as a Port Hand (green)
mark (it is on the port side of a small bay, where there was a
marina). A month or two later, it was changed to starboard (red), as
it is on the starboard side of Howe Sound,, and commercial traffic in
Howe Sound would leave it to starboard. Another month or two later,
it was changed back to port, as it is so close to shore that the
commercial guys wouldn't even notice it, and the only people concerned
were the marina customers.

In this case, I wonder if a Cardinal Buoy would have been more
practical.... the yellow/black colour scheme plus buoy top shape would
tell if danger is north/south/east/west of buoy.

A cardinal mark would probably better, but I don't think they'd been
invented at the time. Also, the thing is a daymark (actually a white
tower with a coloured band at the top, like a minor light, but without
the light), and the Aids to Nav book only shows cardinal buoys - no
cardinal daymarks.

There are a couple of places I'm aware of where a
potentially-confusing lateral buoy has been replaced by a cardinal.

--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI
peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca
new newsgroup users info : http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca