Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Since the MacGregor doesn't capside and doesn't sink
(even when filled with water) would it be safer for
crossing the Atlantic than a 30' Bayliner ?

http://www.macgregorsailboats.com/safety.html

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

wrote in message
k.net...

Since the MacGregor doesn't capside and doesn't sink
(even when filled with water) would it be safer for
crossing the Atlantic than a 30' Bayliner ?

MacGregor 26 with it's poor sail performance, lack of proper ballast or top
heavy power performance is only good for gentle days on a pond! The
Binliner would be just as poor on a serious Atlantic crossing.

Capt Pete

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Think about range. calculate 2000 miles distance by a 5 mpg and you
need how many gallons of fuel on board? How much space does 400
gallons of fuel require? How and where will you store it? Safely. What
will the added weight (about a ton) do to stability? To mileage and
handling? If you use bladders, will chafing cause a catastrophic leak?

editor
http://www.marineenginedigest.com

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

"ed" wrote:
Think about range. calculate 2000 miles distance by a 5 mpg and
you need how many gallons of fuel on board? How much space does
400 gallons of fuel require? How and where will you store it?
Safely. What will the added weight (about a ton) do to stability?
To mileage and handling? If you use bladders, will chafing cause
a catastrophic leak?

editor
http://www.marineenginedigest.com

I forgot to say that the MacGregor is a sailboat :-)

It may not perform well crossing an ocean and may take twice
as long as a good sailboat but since it cannot sink or capsize
you won't have to worry about getting eaten by sharks.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

wrote in message
k.net...
I forgot to say that the MacGregor is a sailboat :-)

It may not perform well crossing an ocean and may take twice
as long as a good sailboat but since it cannot sink or capsize
you won't have to worry about getting eaten by sharks.

No, the MacGregor is a "pretend" sailboat. It is a compromise between a
power boat and a sail boat and it does neither of the two very well. There
is no way it should be considered to be a blue water boat.

Jim Carter
"The Boat"
Bayfield

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

wrote:
"ed" wrote:
Think about range. calculate 2000 miles distance by a 5 mpg and
you need how many gallons of fuel on board? How much space does
400 gallons of fuel require? How and where will you store it?
Safely. What will the added weight (about a ton) do to stability?
To mileage and handling? If you use bladders, will chafing cause
a catastrophic leak?

editor
http://www.marineenginedigest.com

I forgot to say that the MacGregor is a sailboat :-)

It may not perform well crossing an ocean and may take twice
as long as a good sailboat but since it cannot sink or capsize
you won't have to worry about getting eaten by sharks.

Why do you keep insisting it can't capsize?
http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html

Of course, you can claim that they did not follow proper procedures in
this case. However, the North Atlantic has a way of testing gear in
ways not covered by the procedures.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Jeff wrote:
wrote:
"ed" wrote:
Think about range. calculate 2000 miles distance by a 5 mpg and
you need how many gallons of fuel on board? How much space does
400 gallons of fuel require? How and where will you store it?
Safely. What will the added weight (about a ton) do to stability?
To mileage and handling? If you use bladders, will chafing cause
a catastrophic leak?

editor
http://www.marineenginedigest.com

I forgot to say that the MacGregor is a sailboat :-)

It may not perform well crossing an ocean and may take twice
as long as a good sailboat but since it cannot sink or capsize
you won't have to worry about getting eaten by sharks.

Why do you keep insisting it can't capsize?
http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html

Of course, you can claim that they did not follow proper procedures
in this case. However, the North Atlantic has a way of testing gear
in ways not covered by the procedures.

So I should have said that it cannot capsize if the ballast tank
is full and the boat is not overloaded and it doesn't have 300 lbs
of weight attached to the top of the mast, etc, etc.

I'm sure it can also sink if you put enough weight in it.

I'm not a big fan of MacGregor but I'm still waiting for somebody
to tell me why this boat wouldn't be as safe as larger sailboats
when proper procedures are followed.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

wrote:

Jeff wrote:

wrote:

"ed" wrote:

Think about range. calculate 2000 miles distance by a 5 mpg and
you need how many gallons of fuel on board? How much space does
400 gallons of fuel require? How and where will you store it?
Safely. What will the added weight (about a ton) do to stability?
To mileage and handling? If you use bladders, will chafing cause
a catastrophic leak?

editor
http://www.marineenginedigest.com

I forgot to say that the MacGregor is a sailboat :-)

It may not perform well crossing an ocean and may take twice
as long as a good sailboat but since it cannot sink or capsize
you won't have to worry about getting eaten by sharks.

Why do you keep insisting it can't capsize?
http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html

Of course, you can claim that they did not follow proper procedures
in this case. However, the North Atlantic has a way of testing gear
in ways not covered by the procedures.


So I should have said that it cannot capsize if the ballast tank
is full and the boat is not overloaded and it doesn't have 300 lbs
of weight attached to the top of the mast, etc, etc.

I'm sure it can also sink if you put enough weight in it.

I'm not a big fan of MacGregor but I'm still waiting for somebody
to tell me why this boat wouldn't be as safe as larger sailboats
when proper procedures are followed.

It's not the size of boat that matters, its the seaworthiness. Since
it's not designed for heavy seas, heavy seas will create big problems.

For example, if you can't make headway in forty knot winds and if you
are not a boating expert with about five strategies for handling
emergency X, you'll find yourself being carried onto rocks and smashed
to bits, or in a weak-assed MacGregor maybe just broken up by the waves.
"Bluewater" boats are built stronger with heavy keels. They can take
anything the ocean can dish out, as long as the skipper knows what they
are doing.

For the open ocean, get a sailboat designed for the open ocean, learn
navigation, and read up on others' ocean travels. Ideally, you should
crew on ocean crossings with an experienced captain or two.

I have a Hunter 33', stronger than a MacGregor, but I would never
venture out into the ocean with it. On the other hand, I crewed numerous
times on a Blanchard 33' in very heavy seas and felt as safe as a bug in
a rug.

--
Stephen

-------

For any proposition there is always some sufficiently narrow
interpretation of its terms, such that it turns out true, and
some sufficiently wide interpretation such that it turns out
false...concept stretching will refute *any* statement, and will
leave no true statement whatsoever.
-- Imre Lakatos

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 20:46:06 -0800, Stephen Trapani
wrote:

I have a Hunter 33', stronger than a MacGregor, but I would never
venture out into the ocean with it. On the other hand, I crewed numerous
times on a Blanchard 33' in very heavy seas and felt as safe as a bug in
a rug.

There's a Hunter 33 down the dock from me, and while it looks roomy as
hell below, with all that windage and the high boom, it gets slapped
around on windy days on Lake Ontario.

These days not all boats are designed to be seaworthy, but rather
"daysail in 15 knots max."-worthy. There's no harm in that, if that's
what you want.

And most people do.

Ocean-going boats, for reasons of stability, safety and comfort, are
frequently narrow and occasionally dark below...the expectation is
that you'll be on deck most of the time, anyway. There's exceptions to
this, of course, but we can't all afford Moody and Swan models.

As for the original poster, I smell troll. A good way to get sailors
to pitch fits in type is to suggest first a Bayliner and then a
MacGregor 26 as ocean-crossing boats. What's next, a C&C Mega?

R.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
Jeff wrote:
...

Of course, you can claim that they did not follow proper procedures
in this case. However, the North Atlantic has a way of testing gear
in ways not covered by the procedures.

So I should have said that it cannot capsize if the ballast tank
is full and the boat is not overloaded and it doesn't have 300 lbs
of weight attached to the top of the mast, etc, etc.

I'm sure it can also sink if you put enough weight in it.

I'm not a big fan of MacGregor but I'm still waiting for somebody
to tell me why this boat wouldn't be as safe as larger sailboats
when proper procedures are followed.

Just to be clear ... you're talking about safe for a trans-Atlantic?

I'm sure others will have something to say, but for starters, the basic
parameters of the boat are not favorable - what little speed it has is
dependent on staying light, but it looses this with the gear/fuel/water
etc. that would have to be carried. But this is not insurmountable. A
bigger problem is that the basic design is not very seaworthy. It has
extremely high freeboard and thus windage. A hull shape that provides
little stability. And then there's construction issues - very light
rigging which, with the deck stepped mast, pretty much guarantees the rig
will be lost in rollover, and probably in a knockdown. And the rudder
assembly is not noted for strength. And then there's the issue of whether
the hull itself is strong enough to handle the severe pounding of a
serious storm.

The Mac is very attractive to some as a fla****er sailing, and hence is
one of the most successful designs ever. But I think you can find better
choices for a trans-Atlantic.

Here, Here. You have only to look at how easily the minor mouldings and
hinges stress crack on 'dry land' to make an informed judgement about blue
water ability. It will literally fall apart!

Capt Pete

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

wrote in message
k.net...

"ed" wrote:
Think about range. calculate 2000 miles distance by a 5 mpg and
you need how many gallons of fuel on board? How much space does
400 gallons of fuel require? How and where will you store it?
Safely. What will the added weight (about a ton) do to stability?
To mileage and handling? If you use bladders, will chafing cause
a catastrophic leak?

editor
http://www.marineenginedigest.com

I forgot to say that the MacGregor is a sailboat :-)

It may not perform well crossing an ocean and may take twice
as long as a good sailboat but since it cannot sink or capsize
you won't have to worry about getting eaten by sharks.

A sailboat boat definition only. Have a look a the lines of the thing and
tell me what it would be like trying to pound that fat entry into an
oncoming sea in a storm.
http://www.macgregorsailboats.com/sa...fications.html
It is a perfect boat for noob lake-sailors who want the comfort of being
able to power home faster than they can sail. I prefer a boat that sails
faster than it powers.

The weight of a Honda 50 is 200+ lbs. (
http://www.honda-marine.com/pdfs/50hp.pdf )
Would you really like some fat guy hanging off your transom and slowing you
down everytime you set sail. Cos thats what youve got! And thats just the
Honda. Put a Merc on the back you have nearly 250lbs. Not very appealing eh?

Cant sink? Great! http://www.macgregorsailboats.com/safety.html take a good
look at that first photo. Its in nice weather against a Marina. Now imagine
20ft breaking waves- not at all unusal at sea. That boat would not under any
circumstances be inhabitable or controllable in those conditions while
flooded,. The boat would be rolled over and over again. The mast and boom
would be snapped off and would become missiles. The crew would be washed
from the boat or drowned/concussed/speared as they became victims of the
waves/rig/hull. Yeah, I know thats all a bit negative, but its the truth.

As most yachts rely on the engine to top up the batteries you will have to
take enough petrol to last you two hours motoring per day at sea minimum. I
wouldnt like having to take all that petrol with me to supply power. Deisel
is prefered on yachts cos it is more economical and it doesnt go Kaboom.

Oddly enough, the length of the boat would not be an issue. Many yachts
smaller than that have done trasats as well as circum-navs. The difference
being the other yachts were/are designed as blue water boats.

Thats my 2 cents.

DP

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Don't you guys know a troll when you see one?

SBV




"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
Jeff wrote:
...

Of course, you can claim that they did not follow proper
procedures
in this case. However, the North Atlantic has a way of
testing gear
in ways not covered by the procedures.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

rhys wrote:
Stephen Trapani wrote:

I have a Hunter 33', stronger than a MacGregor, but I would
never venture out into the ocean with it. On the other hand,
I crewed numerous times on a Blanchard 33' in very heavy
seas and felt as safe as a bug in a rug.

There's a Hunter 33 down the dock from me, and while it looks
roomy as hell below, with all that windage and the high boom,
it gets slapped around on windy days on Lake Ontario.

These days not all boats are designed to be seaworthy, but
rather "daysail in 15 knots max."-worthy. There's no harm in
that, if that's what you want.

And most people do.

Ocean-going boats, for reasons of stability, safety and
comfort, are frequently narrow and occasionally dark below...
the expectation is that you'll be on deck most of the time,
anyway. There's exceptions to this, of course, but we can't
all afford Moody and Swan models.

As for the original poster, I smell troll. A good way to get
sailors to pitch fits in type is to suggest first a Bayliner and
then a MacGregor 26 as ocean-crossing boats. What's next,
a C&C Mega?

I'm not the original poster and I only brought up the MacGregor
for the purpose of comparing it to the Bayliner.

However, now I'm getting more curious because the consensus
seems to be that the length of the boat is not an issue.

So please tell me if you know of any trailerable bluewater or
ocean-going sailboat (under 30' LOA and 8.5' beam) that has
a water ballast and a retractable keel.

Or do you think it's not possible to build one because a heavier
ballast or keel is needed for stability ?

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

In article . net,
says...



So please tell me if you know of any trailerable bluewater or
ocean-going sailboat (under 30' LOA and 8.5' beam) that has
a water ballast and a retractable keel.

Dawson 26, if you can find one. Trailer boat. Swing keel. Inboard
engine. Aft cabin. Sloop or ketch confignuration. Has crossed both
Atlantic and Pacific and weathered hurricanes.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

rhys wrote:
.... What's next,
a C&C Mega?


heh heh heh and why not?

wrote:
I'm not the original poster and I only brought up the MacGregor
for the purpose of comparing it to the Bayliner.

However, now I'm getting more curious because the consensus
seems to be that the length of the boat is not an issue.


No, it isn't. AFAIK the smallest boat to circumnavigate was 17' and it's
been done in an open 19' boat. The issue is partly the stores load,
and partly the ability to make distance good in a wide variety of weather.


So please tell me if you know of any trailerable bluewater or
ocean-going sailboat (under 30' LOA and 8.5' beam) that has
a water ballast and a retractable keel.


Well, I guess it depends on what you define as "bluewater." Personally,
I think that is a marketing term designed to appeal to the
baggywrinkle-and-corncob-pipe crowd, who want to pretend they're sailing
clipper ships around Cape Horn while they're actually daysailing a
fiberglass one-design around an inland lake.

Or do you think it's not possible to build one because a heavier
ballast or keel is needed for stability ?


I not only think it's possible, I've sailed a water ballast 19'
trailerable cruiser (sort of a racer-cruiser, but AFAIK very few were
ever raced) in fairly heavy weather (40+ knot winds). Maybe I know a
little about it, maybe not.

My wife & I shopped for a trailerable cruiser for quite some time, and
wanted to emphasize the practicality of it for trailering. Many people
are content to spend an hour or more getting the rig set up when
launching, we preferred to get on the water & go. We looked at about 100
boats over a year and a half. The boat we picked (after rejecting it in
the first round) was a Hunter 19, no longer made. It's not built any
better than the average Hunter, maybe worse, but it's a small simple
boat. No plumbing and very little wiring for them to f#%# up!

It stood up quite well to ten years of fairly hard use, although we
always took great care of it. The current owner is quite proud of it,
enjoys it a lot, and says he still gets compliments on his "new" boat.

I would sail that boat to the Bahamas, or across short stretches of open
water, but I'd pick my weather pretty carefully. One reason why it's
suitable for cruising is that it has a fairly well-shaped hull for
carrying a load of stores. For a TransAtlantic crossing, I'd want
something with a bit more room to stretch out, and a sturdier set of
hatches. Is water ballast an issue? You might consider a boat like a
Bolger Micro (there's a 19' Long Micro). In any case, the skipper makes
a lot more difference than the boat.

An excellent book on this subject is "Tinkerbelle" by Robert Manry.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

No, it isn't. AFAIK the smallest boat to circumnavigate was 17' and it's
been done in an open 19' boat. The issue is partly the stores load, and
partly the ability to make distance good in a wide variety of weather.

Sorry...
Record is 13' 8" L.O.A.
And that was 12' boat plus 1'8" bowsprit...
http://www.smallsailboats.co.uk/ding...files/serg.htm

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

No, it isn't. AFAIK the smallest boat to circumnavigate was 17' and it's
been done in an open 19' boat. The issue is partly the stores load, and
partly the ability to make distance good in a wide variety of weather.


DavidG wrote:
Sorry...
Record is 13' 8" L.O.A.
And that was 12' boat plus 1'8" bowsprit...
http://www.smallsailboats.co.uk/ding...files/serg.htm


OK I stand corrected... good thing I never claimed to know everthing!

IIRC there have been some tiny boats, like 6' LOA, that crossed the
Atlantic, but they are very specialized custom-built jobs. A man named
Bombigher (sp?) sailed across the Atlantic in an inflatable life raft,
with no food & water, to prove it was possible to survive on the open sea.

DSK

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

prodigal1 wrote:
wrote:

However, now I'm getting more curious because the consensus
seems to be that the length of the boat is not an issue.


it isn't
google for Tania Aebi and Contessa 26
no water ballast...
but why the hell would you want it?

Just for fun, say there's a MacGregor 26 off to the East
a Contessa 26 to the West, and it's not Popeye's day.

http://www.mts.net/~lmlod/lighthousewashout.jpg

North:
http://www.mts.net/~lmlod/Over.jpg

South:
http://www.mts.net/~lmlod/pampero.jpg

Which way's he gonna swim? :) :) :)

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

LM wrote:
prodigal1 wrote:

wrote:

Just for fun, say there's a MacGregor 26 off to the East
a Contessa 26 to the West, and it's not Popeye's day.

http://www.mts.net/~lmlod/lighthousewashout.jpg

North:
http://www.mts.net/~lmlod/Over.jpg

South:
http://www.mts.net/~lmlod/pampero.jpg

Which way's he gonna swim? :) :) :)


Maybe he should take a look here at what he may expect.
I can only think these guys are trolls - or have never, ever, been to
sea on anything but a calm day.

http://tv-antenna.com/heavy-seas/5/

Best, BrianH.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Maybe he should take a look here at what he may expect.
I can only think these guys are trolls - or have never, ever, been to sea
on anything but a calm day.

http://tv-antenna.com/heavy-seas/5/

Best, BrianH.

You obviously don`t understand the master plan- they intend to pick a calm
day to cross the Atlantic ;-))
Bob Larder

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

prodigal1 wrote:
wrote:

However, now I'm getting more curious because the consensus
seems to be that the length of the boat is not an issue.

it isn't
google for Tania Aebi and Contessa 26
no water ballast...
but why the hell would you want it?

Thanks prodigal. I've found a few Contessa 26 at yachtworld.com
all of which are over 20 years old.

With a water ballast you can let the water out to reduce the
weight of the boat so you can tow it with a car or small SUV.

Another idea is to build a trailerable boat with a water ballast
tank and put a bag inside this tank for storing up to 150 gallons
of diesel (in addition to 20 gallons in the standard fuel tank).
Sea water can be added to the ballast tank as fuel is drawn out
without seriously affecting the weight distribution of the boat.

How far do you think a 26' boat can travel on 170 gallons of
diesel without using the sails ?

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

wrote:

Thanks prodigal. I've found a few Contessa 26 at yachtworld.com
all of which are over 20 years old.

This sounds like you don't like the idea of a 20+ year old boat. Age
isn't the issue either. Mine is going to be 40 years old next summer
and look what some of my friends have been up to with good old boats
like mine
..
http://www.cafesmersdusud.com/oceanothon.htm
http://www.clic.net/~dcooper/hinterh...titdelire.html

With a water ballast you can let the water out to reduce the
weight of the boat so you can tow it with a car or small SUV.
Another idea is to build a trailerable boat with a water ballast
tank and put a bag inside this tank for storing up to 150 gallons
of diesel (in addition to 20 gallons in the standard fuel tank).
Sea water can be added to the ballast tank as fuel is drawn out
without seriously affecting the weight distribution of the boat.

fine, but in my world, the H2O stays outside the hull --as best as I can
keep it that way-- and cars and spitSUV's/spit are for highways and
landfill respectively

How far do you think a 26' boat can travel on 170 gallons of
diesel without using the sails ?

on a sailboat, your primary drive is...the sails! the motor is
your...auxilliary power. it's used to get you in and out of port. But
all of this is fairly academic. Just coming in here and asking about
--ocean +Mac26 indicates the need for _much_ more reading and even more
forethought.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

prodigal1 wrote:
wrote:

Thanks prodigal. I've found a few Contessa 26 at yachtworld.com
all of which are over 20 years old.

This sounds like you don't like the idea of a 20+ year old boat. Age
isn't the issue either. Mine is going to be 40 years old next summer
and look what some of my friends have been up to with good old boats
like mine
..
http://www.cafesmersdusud.com/oceanothon.htm
http://www.clic.net/~dcooper/hinterh...titdelire.html

I have no intention of buying one but my point was that the company
might have gone out of business a long time ago.

With a water ballast you can let the water out to reduce the
weight of the boat so you can tow it with a car or small SUV.
Another idea is to build a trailerable boat with a water ballast
tank and put a bag inside this tank for storing up to 150 gallons
of diesel (in addition to 20 gallons in the standard fuel tank).
Sea water can be added to the ballast tank as fuel is drawn out
without seriously affecting the weight distribution of the boat.

fine, but in my world, the H2O stays outside the hull --as best as I can
keep it that way-- and cars and spitSUV's/spit are for highways and
landfill respectively

How far do you think a 26' boat can travel on 170 gallons of
diesel without using the sails ?

on a sailboat, your primary drive is...the sails! the motor is
your...auxilliary power. it's used to get you in and out of port. But
all of this is fairly academic. Just coming in here and asking about
--ocean +Mac26 indicates the need for _much_ more reading and even more
forethought.

I wouldn't want to motor all the way across the Atlantic either
but I would still want to know how far my boat can go under power.

As stated earlier, I brought up the MacGregor only for the purpose
of comparing it to the Bayliner.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

I supose you would most likely make it across the pond with it but why
bother?

Bryan

wrote in message
. net...

prodigal1 wrote:
wrote:

Thanks prodigal. I've found a few Contessa 26 at yachtworld.com
all of which are over 20 years old.

This sounds like you don't like the idea of a 20+ year old boat. Age
isn't the issue either. Mine is going to be 40 years old next summer
and look what some of my friends have been up to with good old boats
like mine
..
http://www.cafesmersdusud.com/oceanothon.htm
http://www.clic.net/~dcooper/hinterh...titdelire.html

I have no intention of buying one but my point was that the company
might have gone out of business a long time ago.

With a water ballast you can let the water out to reduce the
weight of the boat so you can tow it with a car or small SUV.
Another idea is to build a trailerable boat with a water ballast
tank and put a bag inside this tank for storing up to 150 gallons
of diesel (in addition to 20 gallons in the standard fuel tank).
Sea water can be added to the ballast tank as fuel is drawn out
without seriously affecting the weight distribution of the boat.

fine, but in my world, the H2O stays outside the hull --as best as I can
keep it that way-- and cars and spitSUV's/spit are for highways and
landfill respectively

How far do you think a 26' boat can travel on 170 gallons of
diesel without using the sails ?

on a sailboat, your primary drive is...the sails! the motor is
your...auxilliary power. it's used to get you in and out of port. But
all of this is fairly academic. Just coming in here and asking about
--ocean +Mac26 indicates the need for _much_ more reading and even more
forethought.

I wouldn't want to motor all the way across the Atlantic either
but I would still want to know how far my boat can go under power.

As stated earlier, I brought up the MacGregor only for the purpose
of comparing it to the Bayliner.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

"Bryan" wrote:
How far do you think a 26' boat can travel on 170 gallons
of diesel without using the sails ?

I supose you would most likely make it across the pond with it
but why bother?

Why does Tayana build sailboats that can go 2,000 nm under
power on a single tank (325 gallons) of diesel ?

If I actually want to sail across the Atlantic or Pacific wouldn't
it be nice to know that if the mast and sails and communication
equipments get damaged I won't be stranded in the middle of
the ocean ?

And if I can replace the water in the ballast tank with up to
150 gallons of diesel then my boat won't be any heavier than
necessary. So doesn't this make it an even more logical thing
to do ?

There are also other advantages of having a bluewater boat that
is trailerable.

For example, if you live on the East Coast of the U.S. you won't
have to lose your boat to the hurricanes if you can just put it on
your trailer and move it further inland.

Or if you live on the West Coast and would like to go sailing
in the Bahamas you can just tow your boat to Florida and sail
from there without having to go down to Panama.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

wrote in message
k.net...

"Bryan" wrote:
How far do you think a 26' boat can travel on 170 gallons
of diesel without using the sails ?

I supose you would most likely make it across the pond with it
but why bother?

Why does Tayana build sailboats that can go 2,000 nm under
power on a single tank (325 gallons) of diesel ?

If I actually want to sail across the Atlantic or Pacific wouldn't
it be nice to know that if the mast and sails and communication
equipments get damaged I won't be stranded in the middle of
the ocean ?

And if I can replace the water in the ballast tank with up to
150 gallons of diesel then my boat won't be any heavier than
necessary. So doesn't this make it an even more logical thing
to do ?

There are also other advantages of having a bluewater boat that
is trailerable.

For example, if you live on the East Coast of the U.S. you won't
have to lose your boat to the hurricanes if you can just put it on
your trailer and move it further inland.

Or if you live on the West Coast and would like to go sailing
in the Bahamas you can just tow your boat to Florida and sail
from there without having to go down to Panama.

Popeye: Sweetpea is calling for you. Go back to where trolls and cartoon
characters belong......

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

"Danny" wrote:
wrote:

"Bryan" wrote:
How far do you think a 26' boat can travel on 170 gallons
of diesel without using the sails ?

I supose you would most likely make it across the pond with it
but why bother?

Why does Tayana build sailboats that can go 2,000 nm under
power on a single tank (325 gallons) of diesel ?

If I actually want to sail across the Atlantic or Pacific wouldn't
it be nice to know that if the mast and sails and communication
equipments get damaged I won't be stranded in the middle of
the ocean ?

And if I can replace the water in the ballast tank with up to
150 gallons of diesel then my boat won't be any heavier than
necessary. So doesn't this make it an even more logical thing
to do ?

There are also other advantages of having a bluewater boat that
is trailerable.

For example, if you live on the East Coast of the U.S. you won't
have to lose your boat to the hurricanes if you can just put it on
your trailer and move it further inland.

Or if you live on the West Coast and would like to go sailing
in the Bahamas you can just tow your boat to Florida and sail
from there without having to go down to Panama.

Popeye: Sweetpea is calling for you. Go back to where trolls and
cartoon characters belong......

So what's wrong with my idea of building a trailerable bluewater
sailboat with diesel/water ballast ?

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Hey, people sail small boats across the ocean all the time. If that is what
you want to do, well by all means have at it. Don't forget to wear your
hair shirt to add to your comfort and joy while aboard.

"d parker" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
k.net...

"ed" wrote:
Think about range. calculate 2000 miles distance by a 5 mpg and
you need how many gallons of fuel on board? How much space does
400 gallons of fuel require? How and where will you store it?
Safely. What will the added weight (about a ton) do to stability?
To mileage and handling? If you use bladders, will chafing cause
a catastrophic leak?

editor
http://www.marineenginedigest.com

I forgot to say that the MacGregor is a sailboat :-)

It may not perform well crossing an ocean and may take twice
as long as a good sailboat but since it cannot sink or capsize
you won't have to worry about getting eaten by sharks.

A sailboat boat definition only. Have a look a the lines of the thing and
tell me what it would be like trying to pound that fat entry into an
oncoming sea in a storm.
http://www.macgregorsailboats.com/sa...fications.html
It is a perfect boat for noob lake-sailors who want the comfort of being
able to power home faster than they can sail. I prefer a boat that sails
faster than it powers.

The weight of a Honda 50 is 200+ lbs. (
http://www.honda-marine.com/pdfs/50hp.pdf )
Would you really like some fat guy hanging off your transom and slowing
you down everytime you set sail. Cos thats what youve got! And thats just
the Honda. Put a Merc on the back you have nearly 250lbs. Not very
appealing eh?

Cant sink? Great! http://www.macgregorsailboats.com/safety.html take a
good look at that first photo. Its in nice weather against a Marina. Now
imagine 20ft breaking waves- not at all unusal at sea. That boat would not
under any circumstances be inhabitable or controllable in those conditions
while flooded,. The boat would be rolled over and over again. The mast and
boom would be snapped off and would become missiles. The crew would be
washed from the boat or drowned/concussed/speared as they became victims
of the waves/rig/hull. Yeah, I know thats all a bit negative, but its the
truth.

As most yachts rely on the engine to top up the batteries you will have to
take enough petrol to last you two hours motoring per day at sea minimum.
I wouldnt like having to take all that petrol with me to supply power.
Deisel is prefered on yachts cos it is more economical and it doesnt go
Kaboom.

Oddly enough, the length of the boat would not be an issue. Many yachts
smaller than that have done trasats as well as circum-navs. The difference
being the other yachts were/are designed as blue water boats.

Thats my 2 cents.

DP

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Popeye: Sweetpea is calling for you. Go back to where trolls
and cartoon characters belong......

So what's wrong with my idea of building a trailerable bluewater
sailboat with diesel/water ballast ?

I just called MacGregor and found out the followings:

1. With a 50 hp engine and two 12-gallon fuel tanks the range is
about 150 miles.

2. With a 10 hp engine and two 12-gallon fuel tanks the range is
400-500 miles (at 5.5 to 6 knots)

So with a 10 hp engine and 170 gallons of fuel the range would be
over 3,000 miles.

The fuel economy is close to 20 mpg (better than many SUV's).

At 5.5 knots it would take about two weeks to cross the Atlantic
(if the weather is good :-)

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Jeff wrote:
wrote:
Popeye: Sweetpea is calling for you. Go back to where trolls
and cartoon characters belong......
So what's wrong with my idea of building a trailerable bluewater
sailboat with diesel/water ballast ?

I just called MacGregor and found out the followings:

1. With a 50 hp engine and two 12-gallon fuel tanks the range is
about 150 miles.

2. With a 10 hp engine and two 12-gallon fuel tanks the range is
400-500 miles (at 5.5 to 6 knots)

So with a 10 hp engine and 170 gallons of fuel the range would be
over 3,000 miles.

The fuel economy is close to 20 mpg (better than many SUV's).

At 5.5 knots it would take about two weeks to cross the Atlantic
(if the weather is good :-)

So what the fuel economy if there's a headwind or even moderate seas?
What's the economy with an extra 3000 pounds of fuel and supplies?

I can call MacGregor again but don't know if they will be able to
answer these questions.

As mentioned earlier, the fuel replaces the water (or lead) ballast
in a conventional sailboat so it won't make the boat too heavy.

Also if I have a couple of watermakers and I'm good at fishing
I won't have to carry too much supplies.

If I want to build one myself it will have to be stronger and heavier
but I can make the ballast tank a little larger to hold more fuel.

How much do you think it will cost to build a 27-foot prototype
with 3 bedrooms ?

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 04:11:05 GMT, wrote:


How much do you think it will cost to build a 27-foot prototype
with 3 bedrooms ?

Why don't you just put an Airstream on pontoons, and a telephone pole
for a mast, and hang an outboard on the back?

Now I KNOW you're a troll.

R.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

don't forget the extra weight of the fuel which will slightly degrade
fuel economy and adversely influence performance.
don't forget to add ten to 30 percent fuel reserve.
bring and EPIRB and a SATPHONE.
you will also need drinking water and food, which also adds hundreds of
pounds.

who was the japanese guy who crossed in a kayak without any power?
another guy crossed in a twelve foot boat and a ten hp outboard motor?

a man has to have a dream ...

editor
http://www.marineenginedigest.com

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

ed wrote:

don't forget the extra weight of the fuel which will slightly degrade
fuel economy and adversely influence performance.
don't forget to add ten to 30 percent fuel reserve.
bring and EPIRB and a SATPHONE.
you will also need drinking water and food, which also adds hundreds of
pounds.

who was the japanese guy who crossed in a kayak without any power?
another guy crossed in a twelve foot boat and a ten hp outboard motor?

a man has to have a dream ...

The thing to do is have adequate backup systems.

For example if he has the right emergency beacon thingies, maybe two
types, one for backup, and a quality floatation/life raft with attached
survival supplies, and regularly transmits his position and itinerary
during the trip, he might have some hardship and lose his boat and gear,
but he'll live, even if he is a troll.

--
Stephen

-------

For any proposition there is always some sufficiently narrow
interpretation of its terms, such that it turns out true, and
some sufficiently wide interpretation such that it turns out
false...concept stretching will refute *any* statement, and will
leave no true statement whatsoever.
-- Imre Lakatos

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

rhys wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2005 04:11:05 GMT, wrote:

How much do you think it will cost to build a 27-foot prototype
with 3 bedrooms ?

Why don't you just put an Airstream on pontoons, and a telephone
pole for a mast, and hang an outboard on the back?

Now I KNOW you're a troll.

I was just kidding. Actually my design has 2 walk-in staterooms
forward plus a king-sized rear berth which isn't really a bedroom.

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

"Bryan" wrote in message
...
Hey, people sail small boats across the ocean all the time. If that is
what you want to do, well by all means have at it. Don't forget to wear
your hair shirt to add to your comfort and joy while aboard.
Snip

The difference it that this guy is talking about taking a MacGregor 26. Its
not about the length. Smaller baots can do it. Its about seaworthyness.

DP

Atlantic Crossing on a 26' MacGregor ?
 

"d parker" wrote:
"Bryan" wrote:
Hey, people sail small boats across the ocean all the time.
If that is what you want to do, well by all means have at it.
Don't forget to wear your hair shirt to add to your comfort
and joy while aboard.
Snip

The difference it that this guy is talking about taking
a MacGregor 26. Its not about the length. Smaller boats
can do it. Its about seaworthiness.

Just saw the movie "The Perfect Storm" on TV again today.
So now I'm thinking about how to build a 27-foot trailerable
sailboat with 2 forward staterooms (plus aft king-sized berth)
and a diesel/water ballast that can handle this kind of storm.

I still think it's possible to do.