Heres a link thats basic but has some useful points for consideration:

http://www.pocketcruisers.com/The%20...20Process.html

"Once you have found the boat that you would like to buy, there are
six steps that lead to your final ownership." There are probably more
and this is just some of them.

Link to the sample agreement

http://www.pocketcruisers.com/Agreement05.PDF

YMMV

Heres a link to a newsletter by Hathaway Marine Services

http://www.pocketcruisers.com/hmsnewsletters.html

http://www.pocketcruisers.com/NewsletterMar2005.PDF

This article refers to deck coring issues called Mallets and Meters.

Enjoy Mic

This posting is interesting as I am on the market for another boat.
I have read the information and made two observations:
Item 3. Offer accepted/Rejected.
One way of closing a sale at a desired price is to ask more than the real
value.
When a low ball offer is made the seller refuses and makes a counter offer.
The buyer has the choice to pull out or make another offer. If the buyer
makes another offer it's usually half way of what the counter offer is. Then
the seller has the choice to accept it or counter offer again. When the
buyer is on high he will be embarrass to pull out of the game thinking that
he has beaten the seller down by far and signs the contract. The first time
I saw this technique been used was at one of open market in Africa where
haggling is a way of life.
In real estate one can find out for what money an equivalent house sold in
the same location. It is more difficult to find for what money a certain
type of boat sold.
Item 4. Marine survey. What is the legal responsibly of a Marine surveyor
and the legal value of its report.
In an another word is the surveyor responsible to find all defects in a
boat.
If short after the surveying has been done hidden defects are found what are
the recourse. Can the surveyor states that he/she was only responsible for
what was visible at the time?
Does marine surveyor carry liability insurance if so what is the coverage.



"Mic" wrote in message
...
Heres a link thats basic but has some useful points for consideration:

http://www.pocketcruisers.com/The%20...20Process.html

"Once you have found the boat that you would like to buy, there are
six steps that lead to your final ownership." There are probably more
and this is just some of them.

Link to the sample agreement

http://www.pocketcruisers.com/Agreement05.PDF

YMMV

Heres a link to a newsletter by Hathaway Marine Services

http://www.pocketcruisers.com/hmsnewsletters.html

http://www.pocketcruisers.com/NewsletterMar2005.PDF

This article refers to deck coring issues called Mallets and Meters.

Enjoy Mic

In article ,
"Denis Marier" wrote:

Item 4. Marine survey. What is the legal responsibly of a Marine surveyor
and the legal value of its report.
In an another word is the surveyor responsible to find all defects in a
boat.
If short after the surveying has been done hidden defects are found what are
the recourse. Can the surveyor states that he/she was only responsible for
what was visible at the time?
Does marine surveyor carry liability insurance if so what is the coverage.

Even the best surveyor will miss something sometimes, and none that I
know have x-ray vision. Most do the best they can, but there can be no
guarantee. There will be language to that effect in the survey itself,
but they still need insurance.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Thanks for your reply. I have no doubt that a survey is a good thing. The
fine print in the contract, as in real estate, stipulates that the surveyor
is only responsible for what he/she has access and can see. The insurance
brokers like the evaluation produced by the surveyor so they can ask to have
your boat insure accordingly. When time comes to replace your boat they will
only pay what the real market value is. A good example of this is one of my
friend was involved in a big storm and his boat sunk on the eastern coast.
His 1970 Grampion 30 was insured for $45000. What he got from his insurance
company is half of that amount. When a survey report state that the
replacement value of a boat is XXXX it means that if you had to buy that
boat new at today present value the cost would be XXXX. What the insurance
will cover is the replacement value at today street going price for a boat
of that age. Recently someone had to rebuild part of his deck under the
mast. The survey report did not mention anything of that nature. Who will
pay for the repair?
The recent storm damages in the US will for sure set some jurisprudence on
replacement value of boats.


"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Denis Marier" wrote:

Item 4. Marine survey. What is the legal responsibly of a Marine
surveyor
and the legal value of its report.
In an another word is the surveyor responsible to find all defects in a
boat.
If short after the surveying has been done hidden defects are found what
are
the recourse. Can the surveyor states that he/she was only responsible
for
what was visible at the time?
Does marine surveyor carry liability insurance if so what is the
coverage.

Even the best surveyor will miss something sometimes, and none that I
know have x-ray vision. Most do the best they can, but there can be no
guarantee. There will be language to that effect in the survey itself,
but they still need insurance.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

In article ,
"Denis Marier" wrote:

The insurance brokers like the evaluation produced by the surveyor so
they can ask to have your boat insure accordingly. When time comes to
replace your boat they will only pay what the real market value is. A
good example of this is one of my friend was involved in a big storm
and his boat sunk on the eastern coast. His 1970 Grampion 30 was
insured for $45000. What he got from his insurance company is half of
that amount.


Then he had the wrong type of insurance. In the case of a total loss, a
proper marine policy payment will be based upon the *agreed-upon* survey
value. There will be deductibles and such, of course. I didn't insure
with my home/auto company because of things like that, though my broker
is a sailor.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Mic, how many boats have you purchased, and what type. I'd guess not
too many, maybe zero?

Denis Marier wrote:
Thanks for your reply. I have no doubt that a survey is a good thing. The
fine print in the contract, as in real estate, stipulates that the surveyor
is only responsible for what he/she has access and can see. The insurance
brokers like the evaluation produced by the surveyor so they can ask to have
your boat insure accordingly. When time comes to replace your boat they will
only pay what the real market value is. A good example of this is one of my
friend was involved in a big storm and his boat sunk on the eastern coast.
His 1970 Grampion 30 was insured for $45000. What he got from his insurance
company is half of that amount. When a survey report state that the
replacement value of a boat is XXXX it means that if you had to buy that
boat new at today present value the cost would be XXXX. What the insurance
will cover is the replacement value at today street going price for a boat
of that age. Recently someone had to rebuild part of his deck under the
mast. The survey report did not mention anything of that nature. Who will
pay for the repair?
The recent storm damages in the US will for sure set some jurisprudence on
replacement value of boats.

There are 2 types of boat insurance (broadly generalizing)
in how they deal with total losses:

"Actual Cash Value" types where you get what the insurance
company thinks the boat is worth just like a car. Generally
this is the type for smaller boats 25' or the kind your
homeowner's agent will sell to you.

"Agreed Replacement" where you pay a higher premium but get
a guaranteed amount if the boat is a total loss.

Getting 22,500 for a 1970 Grampian sounds about right
unfortunately.

Evan Gatehouse

In article ,
Dave wrote:

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 02:27:46 GMT, Jere Lull said:

a
proper marine policy payment will be based upon the *agreed-upon* survey
value.

Either type of policy is "proper." It's a matter of whether he chose the
right kind of policy for his own needs.


Let's see.... He paid for twice what the insurance company would pay for
his boat. I pay on what my insurance will pay.

If I didn't care about the value the insurance company and I agreed was
the value and I didn't care about the EPA and salvage coverage that my
policy gives that a home&auto company would lack, and I didn't care that
a Admirality court would laugh my H&A attorney out of court, I might
consider the H&A's policy proper.

Personally, the costs of either were on the same order of magnitude. I
chose improved coverage for specifically nautical issues not offered by
the H&A insurer.

Our boat is getting old enough that I'm considering other options, but
when I compare the list of specific nautical items (EPA cleanup being
the big one) that the H&A policy can't cover, I still go with BOAT/U.S.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

In article ,
Dave wrote:

On Wed, 02 Nov 2005 05:22:35 GMT, Jere Lull said:

Our boat is getting old enough that I'm considering other options,

I think you just proved my point.


We're older than you, as I recall, and the EPA and salvage coverages are
still keeping us with a true marine policy. Though I consider other
options, I can't see our changing -- except perhaps to no insurance,
preferring to take our chances since insurance companies almost never
lose money, so self-insurance may be valid.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/