It goes to the ideas that: there's a lot more to pwc's and pwcer's than
just "noise and pollution"; and pwc'ers are boaters for sure, and that
certainly many of them (none of us knows the real percentage) are
responsible, considerate, fellow boaters of yours and should not be
summarily dismissed or insulted, or held some longstanding grudge
against, or banned from your waterways, as a group based on the size
and shape of our boats or the bad behavior of the worst of our member
(any more than should any other segment of boats or boaters).

I don't need to get a grip, you need to get a clue.

richforman

In article . com,
wrote:
It goes to the ideas that: there's a lot more to pwc's and pwcer's than
just "noise and pollution"; and pwc'ers are boaters for sure, and that
certainly many of them (none of us knows the real percentage) are
responsible, considerate, fellow boaters of yours and should not be
summarily dismissed or insulted, or held some longstanding grudge
against, or banned from your waterways, as a group based on the size
and shape of our boats or the bad behavior of the worst of our member
(any more than should any other segment of boats or boaters).

Yeah, well, PWCs suck and I don't like them nor do I want them
around. I don't like the general attitude of most of the people who
own them, and you're a prime example.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Now what the heck do you fnd so wrong with my attitude? What have I
done or said to hurt or insult you? (Okay, maybe I called you an
asshole somewhere along the line, but I was kind of provoked!)....
aside from that all I've been doing is defending myself and a huge
number of others, and trying to inform you of some things you obviously
don't know. Seriously - how am I out of line exactly? Have I spoken
arrogantly? Just by TALKING about pwc's and trying to explain why
they and their riders are not so bad? Just that in itself ****es you
off and makes you dislike me more? Seems like I can't win.

If someone insulted or dismissed some group you were proud to be a part
of, and made claims you felt you were unfair about you and dozens or
hundreds of your friends, and you tried to defend yourself and provide
them with a little extra knowledge and information that they obviously
didn't know ....and their response was just to hurl more insults, to
the effect, "well you're just continuing to show why I hate you and
don't want you around with that attitude"....how would that make you
feel, "j" ganz.

Anyway, your response just illustrates again that you're dug in and
completely refuse to reconsider your hardened preconceived notions no
matter how much new information is presented to you.

Jetski's don't suck. Like I explained in specific detail, there are an
awful lot of good things about them at the very least - clean-running,
quiet, fuel-efficient, affordable, exhilirating, fun, versatile, and a
great way to enjoy the water with family and friends for those of us
who maybe can't afford to own and run a bigger power-boat.....guess I"m
just trying to get you to admit that on consideration maybe they don't
suck so much. Lots of your fellow boaters who have bigger boats and
sailboats too, have pwc's as well. So are those people annoying jerks
when riding their pwc's but fine seamen when sailing? It's not
logical.

Really, I"m rereading my very last post above that you respond to and
say I'm a prime example of pwc owners' bad attitude, and can't find
anything wrong in my post to provoke your response.. It's not
aggressive or boastful or insulting in tune, on the contrary, it reads
as pretty reasonable, measured, and everything it says is pretty true
and fair. Do I come off as a speed-loving macho inconsiderate careless
jerk like you say you find pwc owners to be? Can't you tell from my
relating my experiences and feelings that I'm a boater with a lot in
common with you?

And the fact that you keep stubbornly and nastily insisting that they
just suck says a lot more about your "attitude" than mine.

Thanks for the chat, I guess, sorry to have annoyed you so.

richforman

wrote in message
ups.com...
Now what the heck do you fnd so wrong with my attitude? What have I
done or said to hurt or insult you? (Okay, maybe I called you an
asshole somewhere along the line, but I was kind of provoked!)....

Oh, you were provoked! Got it!

aside from that all I've been doing is defending myself and a huge
number of others, and trying to inform you of some things you obviously
don't know. Seriously - how am I out of line exactly? Have I spoken
arrogantly? Just by TALKING about pwc's and trying to explain why
they and their riders are not so bad? Just that in itself ****es you
off and makes you dislike me more? Seems like I can't win.

You're claiming that there isn't much of a problem with PWCs and their
riders, when there is quite a large problem. Not ****ed off at all. Amused
perhaps is better word. You're trying to defend the indefensible by claiming
that the new ones aren't so bad.

If someone insulted or dismissed some group you were proud to be a part
of, and made claims you felt you were unfair about you and dozens or
hundreds of your friends, and you tried to defend yourself and provide
them with a little extra knowledge and information that they obviously
didn't know ....and their response was just to hurl more insults, to
the effect, "well you're just continuing to show why I hate you and
don't want you around with that attitude"....how would that make you
feel, "j" ganz.

If you have a rational, well-thought out argument in favor of opening up all
places to PWCs, go for. Make your case. Between now and then, I will
continue to look upon the PWC crowd with suspicion based on my experience
and those of my fellow sailors.

Anyway, your response just illustrates again that you're dug in and
completely refuse to reconsider your hardened preconceived notions no
matter how much new information is presented to you.

Observable facts on the water. Happy to reconsider, but no good reason at
this point.

Jetski's don't suck. Like I explained in specific detail, there are an
awful lot of good things about them at the very least - clean-running,

Gawd... NEW ONES MAYBE

Really, I"m rereading my very last post above that you respond to and

Well, I'm sorry, but I just don't remember which post you're referring to...

and fair. Do I come off as a speed-loving macho inconsiderate careless
jerk like you say you find pwc owners to be? Can't you tell from my
relating my experiences and feelings that I'm a boater with a lot in
common with you?

Well, yeah, actually you do. I'm sure you and do have a lot in common, but
you're defending a machine and more importantly an attitude by continually
claiming that the problem is basically fixed. It isn't.

And the fact that you keep stubbornly and nastily insisting that they
just suck says a lot more about your "attitude" than mine.

I guess I'm just the stubborn kind.

Thanks for the chat, I guess, sorry to have annoyed you so.

I think I should apologize. I've clearly annoyed you. You don't annoy me at
all, unless you're typing while buzzing the harbor on your jet-ski.