imagineero wrote:

I've got a caper cat that is in desperate need of updating. Im hoping
to sail it up the coast of australia, and have ben sailing it 3 times
weekly and updating what needs to be changed bit by bit, cleats,
rigging, shrouds etc etc, the halyards are a pain to me. The main
halyard clips in with a shackle on a bowline to a dinky little d ring
on the mast, then is tensioned with a downhaul rope through a pulley
then back up to a clam cleat. It takes me about 5 minutes to rig the
main on shore, and i'd have no chance of getting it down in a pinch if
i had to out in a big blow.

Yes, I've seen a few cat setups with similar problems and frankly as
coastal dinghy cruiser they scare me s**tless. OK on a big lake or
sailing off a beach with safety cover but you dont want to be 5 miles
out on passage crossing a big bay or estuary and get caught out in a
squall. D. Parker's comment about being able to read the weather
building to the south and getting 20 minutes warning is not confidence
inspiring. Say five minutes of innattention, and 5 minutes of Hmm, is
it headed this way? then 10 minutes of struggling to get the main down
and you are out of time and quite probably swimming. Personally, I'd
like time to check all gear is secure, pop a quick plot on the chart and
get some foul weather gear on. Say 7-8 minutes total. Cut back the
'Hmm, thinking time' a bit and you still need to be able to drop and
stow the main in about three minutes.

The jib is a bit easier to rig, just goes straight to a horn cleat, but
i cant get nearly enough tension on it, even taking a half turn and
pulling for all im worth. would also be slow to take down.

I've commented on Garland's halyard tensioning idea which looks good
elsewhere in this thread. As to being slow to get down, What are you
going to do when its down? All the small cats I've ever seen have no
way of getting to the tack of the jib afloat and if you cant release the
tack, you will have the choice of dropping the jib in the water or of
having it trying to flog itself and you to death. In survival
conditions dropping it in the water and useing it as a drogue may
actually be a good thing, but if you can keep it up and broad reach off
before the squall under jib alone you'd probably be safer. What is it,
20% of your sail area? I'd also look at fitting roller furling. (N.B. I
dont mean roller reefing with a luff extrusion round the foresail. I
just mean a furling drum at the bottom and a swivel at the top on your
existing jib hoisted on a normal halyard with seperate forestay the way
it is now, so you can furl it completely round its own luff wire. full
sail or nothing, you cant reef that way.)


I've been looking around at other cats on the beach, but havent yet
seen anything i'd like. What i want is something thats fast to put up,
but super fast (and single handed, single action) to take down even
under load. I was thinking possibly a snapshackle on the main, but can
these be pulled under heavy loads?

Is the shakle and D ring at the mast head? Ive seen cats with a hook in
halyard lock and they are always a right pain in the a**e. Not a lot
you can do in that case as its designed to let the halyard running down
the mast be slack so as to avoid compression loading the mast. You
*could* try fixing one end of the halyard to the mast head and taking it
through a block that clips onto the head of the sail, through the
masthead sheave and down to the cleat which would reduce the compression
by 50% but you'd have 2x mast length of tail to coil. and you'd still
be compression loading the mast which it may not be designed to take.

On the other hand, from your question about snap shackles I supect the D
ring and shackle are somewhere near the bottom, in which case I'd forget
about using either and fit a highfield lever with the hook upwards on
the mast.
http://www.holtperformance.com/rigging/detail.asp?line=highf
Lifting the handle should give you enough slack to pop the bowline on
the halyard over the hook or pull it off to let the halyard run *without
* letting off the tensioner which I presume goes to the tack of the
mainb sail. If OTOH the tensioner is on the halyard, one of the rachet
type Highfield levers on that page should do the job *IF* you use a very
low stretch halyard, Either wire or a modern synthetic like Marlow V12
vectran.

I doubt you'd get a fully loaded pin type snap shackle to release even
with a lanyard on the pin. The ring clip would bend and pull out of the
pin first. A Witchard trigger release shackle is designed for that sort
of application but you wouldn't want it on the halyard as you have to
stick a spike in to trip it.


The alternative i came up with (and bear with me hear, im from a rock
climbing background) is halyard, coming down the mast, alpine butterfly
tied into it with a D-shackle about 6" before it enters a small pulley
bolted to the mast then back up, thorough the D shackle on the alpine
butterfly, then back down to a clam cleat. This might sound a bit
confusing, and im hopeless at ascii art, so ill just hope you can
picture it and if not then i'll draw a picture. This would give me a
2:1 purchase and be quick to release,plus give me a bit of extra gear
for jury rigging but is there an easier way?

Thats basically Garland's suggested setup but with a shackle instead of
the block. I'd reckon it would be a pain to use on the main and slow to
drop as you need to either undo the shackel or unreeve a whole mast
lenght of tail from the shackle before you drop it as if you let the
shackle head up the mast with the tail through it you should expect to
get a kink or knot in the end jamming the sail halfway down. You also
probably loose 50% of the extra advantage you get going through the
shackle and back to friction and it wont be at all easy to swig up tight.

Thanks,
Shaun Van Poecke
14' caper cat
Sydney, Australia

Lucky B*****D, I'm in the middle of discussing our winter program and
you are about to start your summer season's sailing. For some strange
reason, there is a lack of enthusiasm here for the planned race on New
Year's Day. Don't know why, the tidal Thames hasn't frozen by then in
living memory. May get a little thin ice by Febuary floating down from
above the half tide wear but that take a really cold winter.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:
'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed,
All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy.

"Ian Malcolm" wrote in message
...
imagineero wrote:

I've got a caper cat that is in desperate need of updating. Im hoping
to sail it up the coast of australia, and have ben sailing it 3 times
weekly and updating what needs to be changed bit by bit, cleats,
rigging, shrouds etc etc, the halyards are a pain to me. The main
halyard clips in with a shackle on a bowline to a dinky little d ring
on the mast, then is tensioned with a downhaul rope through a pulley
then back up to a clam cleat. It takes me about 5 minutes to rig the
main on shore, and i'd have no chance of getting it down in a pinch if
i had to out in a big blow.

Yes, I've seen a few cat setups with similar problems and frankly as
coastal dinghy cruiser they scare me s**tless. OK on a big lake or
sailing off a beach with safety cover but you dont want to be 5 miles out
on passage crossing a big bay or estuary and get caught out in a squall.
D. Parker's comment about being able to read the weather building to the
south and getting 20 minutes warning is not confidence inspiring. Say
five minutes of innattention, and 5 minutes of Hmm, is it headed this way?
then 10 minutes of struggling to get the main down and you are out of time
and quite probably swimming. Personally, I'd like time to check all gear
is secure, pop a quick plot on the chart and get some foul weather gear
on. Say 7-8 minutes total. Cut back the 'Hmm, thinking time' a bit and
you still need to be able to drop and stow the main in about three
minutes.


Snip

Sorry, you may have missed the sarcasm in my previous post.

He wont need the 5 minutes of "hmm, is it headed this way". If your off the
coast of NSW and to the south you see a big MoFo Anvil. Its coming your way!
He will already be wearing a wet suit so he shouldnt need time to change

There was a guy some years ago who sailed the east coast on the hobie. But
he used a support vessel to help along the way. I forget his name. But from
memory he had all sorts of Australian titles under his belt. Another reader
may be able to enlighten us further.

DP

d parker wrote:

"Ian Malcolm" wrote:
snip
D. Parker's comment about being able to read the weather building to the
south and getting 20 minutes warning is not confidence inspiring. Say
five minutes of innattention, and 5 minutes of Hmm, is it headed this way?
then 10 minutes of struggling to get the main down and you are out of time
and quite probably swimming. Personally, I'd like time to check all gear
is secure, pop a quick plot on the chart and get some foul weather gear
on. Say 7-8 minutes total. Cut back the 'Hmm, thinking time' a bit and
you still need to be able to drop and stow the main in about three
minutes.

Snip

Sorry, you may have missed the sarcasm in my previous post.
Probably. Sarcasm is hard to do well on usenet. Too many posters who's
version of english is different to one's own. If you are subtle, most
miss it and if not you get flamed for being gratuitously offensive. :-)

He wont need the 5 minutes of "hmm, is it headed this way". If your off the
coast of NSW and to the south you see a big MoFo Anvil. Its coming your way!
Local knowlage trumps general experiance anytime.

He will already be wearing a wet suit so he shouldnt need time to change
Been caught out in a hail storm in a wetsuit? I frequently wear a
wetsuit when dinghy cruising. (Not the most comfortable sailing gear if
you aren't planning on going in, but without one, spring water temps and
a little wind chill afterwards wont give you much chance if you do go in
and have 10 more miles to do till you reach shelter). I *WANT* that set
of offshore yachting foulies rolled up under the foredeck on before the
1/2" to 1" hailstones start hitting me. Of course, we've got weather
and you've got a climate VBG

There was a guy some years ago who sailed the east coast on the hobie. But
he used a support vessel to help along the way. I forget his name. But from
memory he had all sorts of Australian titles under his belt. Another reader
may be able to enlighten us further.

DP
Sounds interesting.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:
'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed,
All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy.

"Ian Malcolm" wrote in message
...
d parker wrote:

Snip


He will already be wearing a wet suit so he shouldnt need time to change

Been caught out in a hail storm in a wetsuit? I frequently wear a wetsuit
when dinghy cruising. (Not the most comfortable sailing gear if you aren't
planning on going in, but without one, spring water temps and a little
wind chill afterwards wont give you much chance if you do go in and have
10 more miles to do till you reach shelter). I *WANT* that set of
offshore yachting foulies rolled up under the foredeck on before the 1/2"
to 1" hailstones start hitting me. Of course, we've got weather and
you've got a climate VBG

My only thought here would be to drop sails and tie them off . Climb into
the water and under the tramp for shelter. There is not much you can do at
that point except hang on.

Much of this is merely rhetoric any way. With the good forecasting services
available there is no way our intrepid sailor would be caught out as he is
only gunkholing after all. (at least I hope so)

DP

hi Don,
interesting what you say about having your main converted to slides...
i assume this means sliding cars right? Most of the bigger boats i've
been on had this system as well, and it was sure a lot easier to hoist,
plus the advantage of being able to leave the sail and boom attached to
the mast when dropped and just tie the sail off with some ties. Im
guessing you probably had the sails re-cut at the same time, but do you
think it cost much to have the slides added? As an aside, did you
notice any difference in sailing performance with the slides compared
to the bolt rope system, positive or otherwise?

As far as hail storms go - ouch! We have about one of these a year in
sydney and it seems every 2 or 3 years we get a pretty big one that
makes insurance companies unhappy... Im hoping to not be more than
about 10 miles offshore at any time, though if i go really far north
i'll probably take the common route of sticking to islands to avoid
crocodiles. My wetsuit wont help me much if i bump into one of these
hungry lizards ;-)

Shaun

imagineero wrote:

As far as hail storms go - ouch! We have about one of these a year in
sydney and it seems every 2 or 3 years we get a pretty big one that
makes insurance companies unhappy... Im hoping to not be more than
about 10 miles offshore at any time, though if i go really far north
i'll probably take the common route of sticking to islands to avoid
crocodiles. My wetsuit wont help me much if i bump into one of these
hungry lizards ;-)

Shaun

My usual winter sailing attire is a wetsuit over the usual sort of base
layer and on top of that a thick jersey (guernsey actually) and
depending on the weather either a spray top or full offshore foulies
over the top.

As to the hailstorm, it was late march on the south coast. I was out on
a small cat. Saw the clouds gathering behind a fairly high point a
couple of miles away and thought it looked a bit dodgy. Then it became
apparent it was heading our way. Didn't look too bad, no thunder, then.
As it came accross the point the thunder & lightning started. At that
point I wanted off the water *fast* I started heading for the nearest
shore but the wind had dropped to nearly nothing (inflow into the
circulation cell?) and I could see a line of white accross the water
sweeping down from the point. I figured it would be best to meet it on
one bow rather than abeam or astern so I put the boat on a close reach
and overhauled the mainsheet so it was fully slack and freed the
traveller. Then it hit. Whiteout. Freezing horizontal rain and wild
windshifts. We were coping reasonably well but were fairly
disoriented (no compass). Then the hail started. In about a minute the
trampoline collected at least an inch of ice. We were hunkered down
trying to protect our faces. The wind had eased slightly but was still
sliceing the hail at us. I decided to run off before it as we
couldn't stand the speed the hail was hitting us at nor see anything to
windward. I steered off onto a run and my crew hastily joined me on the
aft windward corner of the tramp to keep the lee bow up. The rudders
were singing and the vibration through the tiller was pretty fierce. I
have no idea how fast we were going. I could see a lighter patch ahead
and the hail was easing so I steered for it. When I finally got out
from under the storm we still had a couple of inches of ice on the tramp
inspite of the spray washing over it at high speed and we were over a
mile from where it had hit us. We beached as soon as we could as we
could still hear thunder and feared another cell was developing.

Size estimates of the hail stones were from looking at the half melted
remmnants on the tramp. There cant have been a lot of 1" ones or we'd
not have made it, and even through wetsuits, heavy jerseys and foulies
we had a fair number of bruises. Haven't done much cat sailing since :-)

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:
'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed,
All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy.

imagineero wrote:
hi Don,
interesting what you say about having your main converted to slides...
i assume this means sliding cars right? Most of the bigger boats i've
been on had this system as well, and it was sure a lot easier to hoist,
plus the advantage of being able to leave the sail and boom attached to
the mast when dropped and just tie the sail off with some ties. Im
guessing you probably had the sails re-cut at the same time, but do you
think it cost much to have the slides added? As an aside, did you
notice any difference in sailing performance with the slides compared
to the bolt rope system, positive or otherwise?

As far as hail storms go - ouch! We have about one of these a year in
sydney and it seems every 2 or 3 years we get a pretty big one that
makes insurance companies unhappy... Im hoping to not be more than
about 10 miles offshore at any time, though if i go really far north
i'll probably take the common route of sticking to islands to avoid
crocodiles. My wetsuit wont help me much if i bump into one of these
hungry lizards ;-)

Shaun


Hi Shaun

My local sailmaker charged me 50 Canadian dollars to install the
slides/slugs/sliding cars on my mainsail.
I haven't sailed my boat since due to ...first, a cracked rib, and now
ingrown toenail.
A number of other Sandpiper 565 owners have done this and swear by it.
The other issue was whether to install the slugs on the main foot. My
sailmaker didn't think it worthwhile.
Note: No sail re-cutting needed. the plastic slides have an elastic
type material sewn tightly between them and just past the bolt rope.
I did have my genoa re-sewn in a couple of places since I was there anyway.

im guessing the CD$50 was for installation, not including the slides
themselves right? i really cant picture what they look like.... do
you possibly have any links to pictures of them, or more information on
who makes them? Im very interested in this idea.... they need to be
sewn onto the sail right? but the bolt rope is retained?

Thanks again,
Shaun