Red Cloud® wrote:

On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:06:31 GMT, Rosalie B. wrote:

Red Cloud© wrote:

On Tue, 06 Sep 2005 22:30:12 GMT, Rosalie B.
wrote:

I think it is going to be hard to find a boat in St. Louis. Most
bluewater boats are going to be in Southern California or on the
southern East Coast.


BTW, Grandma Rosalie, I know you keep track of CSY's for sale. Here's
one: http://www.csyforsale.com

Thanks - I know of the boat but I didn't know she was FS. Kind of a
steep price IMHO although she looks beautiful. .

I was pretty shocked by what they are asking. I realize from looking at the
website that they have done a lot of recent work, but I doubt they can honestly
expect to recoup all that they invested. These boats are usually offered needing
about 20-40k of refitting for about 75 - 85K. To me, someone should be able to
buy one of these and have it pretty darned fresh for 100 - 110k. I wouldn't mind
owning one, and when we get to the point in a few years when we need a
comfortable liveaboard for 4-6 months at a time, a CSY will be high on the list
of candidates.

It isn't completely out of the ballpark. I have seen ones sell for
more than that. One of them started out at $300K and eventually sold
for about $195K.

At the moment the following walkovers are for sale:

-MABEL REID in the Netherlands is about $170K
-MARIAH in the USVI for $165K
-ZIA in Palmetto FL for $139K
-ROB ROY in Ontario listed for $139K
- DOU DOU $139K in St. Maartin - doghouse over cockpit
- MARIJKE IV in Punta Gorda for $133.5K
- ANGELIQUE for $125K down from $136K in Panama City
- LEAP OF FAITH in Titusville FL for $125
- SURPRISE for $124.9 K (owned by list member Larry Rotta)
- BASILISK in Tortola for $120K
- unknown boat in Channel Islands CA for $117.6K
- unknown boat in Guatemala for $115K
- EVERMORE in Georgia for $109K
- AUDRA $109K in Ft. Lauderdale FL (shoal draft tall rig)
- GHOST in Massachusetts down to $89.9 from $105K
-MARY MAR for $84.9 down from $94.5 in Clear Lake TX
-JOYA GRANDE in Ft. Lauderdale for $83K
- NASHIRA in California down from $80K to $79K
- SIRENA DEL MAR in Marathon for $69.5K


grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html

When are you guys planning to retire?
My wife and I did a year ago and we're living aboard our yacht for 2,5
years now. In this time we get used to life aboard, refit/prep the
ship, and so on. We're planning on leaving in 2007.

Our advice would be: buy the largest hullspace you can afford
(purchase as well as maintenance), and buy a decksaloon.
Everything about a ship can be altered afterwards except the hull. For
a healthy, longlasting life aboard space is very important. We even
rented a small trailer for 6 months (in winter) to get to know how a
switch from a fairly large home to a space of 50 x 15 feet influenced
us: we love it (and this is one of the instances where your general
attitude regarding life and posessing matter kicks in) ...

Next to that a decksaloon let's you live with normal eye-contact with
the outside world while sitting down. My bet is you would get fed up
with living on a conventional yacht, no matter the size. It's like
living in a cellar with small windows over your head.

For some other subjects to think of before you buy:
Peter Forthmann owns a german factory that manufactures windvanes.
He's an experienced sailor. One subject he elaborates on is "the
perfect yacht".
http://www.windpilot.com/en/Ra/rayacen.html
Imo a sensible piece of information.

Hope to hear again from you.

Len,
S/v Present


On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 20:38:43 -0500, "RB" wrote:

Just what is a blue water boat- size- sail plan- tankage- hull material- and
so on?
My wife and I want to retire and do a circumnavigation just the 2 of us.
What should I look for in a boat?
Rick in St Louis

HI again folks, Thanks for the replies! I want plenty of opinions since this
is a broad topic!

So here goes, what SIZE of boat would be a maximum for 2 (healthy and late
50's) people underway. I am thinking in the 45 to 65 foot range with modern
roller furling and etc.
I have been partial to ketch sail configurations. I need good room for
visitors/family if they where to fly over and spend some time in port with
us as we go along. I may never get out of the Caribbean- but want a boat
that can make it if we want to do some extended cruising.

Thanks,
RB


"RB" wrote in message
...
Just what is a blue water boat- size- sail plan- tankage- hull material-
and so on?
My wife and I want to retire and do a circumnavigation just the 2 of us.
What should I look for in a boat?
Rick in St Louis

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:16:10 -0500, "RB" wrote:

HI again folks, Thanks for the replies! I want plenty of opinions since this
is a broad topic!

So here goes, what SIZE of boat would be a maximum for 2 (healthy and late
50's) people underway. I am thinking in the 45 to 65 foot range with modern
roller furling and etc.

Electric winches go from "luxury" to "necessity" in my view at about
the 45 foot mark for two people, unless you are both 5' 10" and
unusually strong. Getting the mainsail up and down is usually the
issue, as the the height of the boom on bigger boats. More electrics,
furling, etc. equals more stuff to break...hiring crew is probably
cheaper in the long run. That being said, the maximum is what your
wallet can handle when half your assistive devices go on the fritz.
Most couples I know of stay in the 39-45 foot band, as the price of
maintenance (not to mention the price of docking, canals, etc.) is
higher with longer boats.

I have been partial to ketch sail configurations. I need good room for
visitors/family if they where to fly over and spend some time in port with
us as we go along. I may never get out of the Caribbean- but want a boat
that can make it if we want to do some extended cruising.

You have several possibly contradictory requirements. You have to
figure that YOU and your wife are the actual liveaboards: size the
boat for your capacities to sail it and your comfort in living in it,
not for its suitability as a floating hotel for visitors who may or
may not show or help in running the boat.

As for the ketch rig, while I personally like it, it is both more
tunable and more complex than a sloop rig, and they point less high on
average and are frequently found 20% too short on boats 40% too heavy.
It's a trade wind/downwind rig, really, and is good if you've got time
or find the more but smaller sails aspect attractive. I do (I like the
center cockpit options frequently found on ketches as well), but I
have no illusions that it takes more wind to get them moving and they
are a rig for comfort, not speed. If J-Boats made a ketch, then
maybe...!

Also, in the Caribbean, there's a lot of thin water. You may find a
swing keel/centerboard makes more sense, as the bigger the boat, the
deeper the keel as a rule. A Whitby 42 is a good example of a tested
Caribbean cruiser.

R.

"RB" wrote:

HI again folks, Thanks for the replies! I want plenty of opinions since this
is a broad topic!

So here goes, what SIZE of boat would be a maximum for 2 (healthy and late
50's) people underway. I am thinking in the 45 to 65 foot range with modern
roller furling and etc.

Our boat is called a CSY 44 and is really closer to 50 if you count
the bow pulpit with the anchor and the dinghy davits and solar panels
on the stern.. That's plenty big enough IMHO for two people to sail.
She can be single handed, but not easily.

We have a cutter and all three sails are roller furled and can be run
from the cockpit. The cutter is nicer than a sloop IMHO.

We don't have either electric winches or an electric windlass. I can
only furl the staysail all by myself because the other sails are too
big for me to handle, but I'm older than you and not as strong. Bob
managed to unfurl and furl the sails himself even though he was in the
process of having a heart attack, so I'm sure a healthy and more fit
person could manage.

I have been partial to ketch sail configurations. I need good room for
visitors/family if they where to fly over and spend some time in port with
us as we go along. I may never get out of the Caribbean- but want a boat
that can make it if we want to do some extended cruising.

There are (since we've modified her a bit), berths for 6.5 (one
smaller person). Enough that children and/or grandchildren could come
and visit. We took out one double and made a single out of it.

We have two heads and a separate shower. This is important.

It is a center cockpit boat which I prefer, although our boat isn't a
walk-through which my husband would prefer.

The boat was built for the Caribbean bareboat trade, and does very
well there as it has lots of ventilation (which I think more modern
boats are lacking) and lots of storage. Ventilation, storage and lots
of handholds are very important IMHO. Don't pay too much attention to
'light and airy saloons' if there's nowhere to hold on in a seaway.

It is a very heavy boat which makes her a bit harder to handle in
strong wind and current, and also somewhat (IMO) underpowered.

HTH


"RB" wrote in message
...
Just what is a blue water boat- size- sail plan- tankage- hull material-
and so on?
My wife and I want to retire and do a circumnavigation just the 2 of us.
What should I look for in a boat?
Rick in St Louis





grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html

I'd go cutter just because it's easier to handle 2 smaller headsails
rather than one monster. G

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
"RB" wrote:

HI again folks, Thanks for the replies! I want plenty of opinions since
this
is a broad topic!

So here goes, what SIZE of boat would be a maximum for 2 (healthy and
late
50's) people underway. I am thinking in the 45 to 65 foot range with
modern
roller furling and etc.

Our boat is called a CSY 44 and is really closer to 50 if you count
the bow pulpit with the anchor and the dinghy davits and solar panels
on the stern.. That's plenty big enough IMHO for two people to sail.
She can be single handed, but not easily.

We have a cutter and all three sails are roller furled and can be run
from the cockpit. The cutter is nicer than a sloop IMHO.

We don't have either electric winches or an electric windlass. I can
only furl the staysail all by myself because the other sails are too
big for me to handle, but I'm older than you and not as strong. Bob
managed to unfurl and furl the sails himself even though he was in the
process of having a heart attack, so I'm sure a healthy and more fit
person could manage.

I have been partial to ketch sail configurations. I need good room for
visitors/family if they where to fly over and spend some time in port
with
us as we go along. I may never get out of the Caribbean- but want a boat
that can make it if we want to do some extended cruising.

There are (since we've modified her a bit), berths for 6.5 (one
smaller person). Enough that children and/or grandchildren could come
and visit. We took out one double and made a single out of it.

We have two heads and a separate shower. This is important.

It is a center cockpit boat which I prefer, although our boat isn't a
walk-through which my husband would prefer.

The boat was built for the Caribbean bareboat trade, and does very
well there as it has lots of ventilation (which I think more modern
boats are lacking) and lots of storage. Ventilation, storage and lots
of handholds are very important IMHO. Don't pay too much attention to
'light and airy saloons' if there's nowhere to hold on in a seaway.

It is a very heavy boat which makes her a bit harder to handle in
strong wind and current, and also somewhat (IMO) underpowered.

HTH


"RB" wrote in message
...
Just what is a blue water boat- size- sail plan- tankage- hull
material-
and so on?
My wife and I want to retire and do a circumnavigation just the 2 of
us.
What should I look for in a boat?
Rick in St Louis





grandma Rosalie

S/V RosalieAnn, Leonardtown, MD
CSY 44 WO #156
http://home.mindspring.com/~gmbeasley/id1.html

rhys wrote:
On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 15:16:10 -0500, "RB" wrote:

HI again folks, Thanks for the replies! I want plenty of opinions since this
is a broad topic!

So here goes, what SIZE of boat would be a maximum for 2 (healthy and late
50's) people underway. I am thinking in the 45 to 65 foot range with modern
roller furling and etc.

Electric winches go from "luxury" to "necessity" in my view at about
the 45 foot mark for two people, unless you are both 5' 10" and
unusually strong. Getting the mainsail up and down is usually the
issue, as the the height of the boom on bigger boats. More electrics,
furling, etc. equals more stuff to break...hiring crew is probably
cheaper in the long run. That being said, the maximum is what your
wallet can handle when half your assistive devices go on the fritz.
Most couples I know of stay in the 39-45 foot band, as the price of
maintenance (not to mention the price of docking, canals, etc.) is
higher with longer boats.

I have been partial to ketch sail configurations. I need good room for
visitors/family if they where to fly over and spend some time in port with
us as we go along. I may never get out of the Caribbean- but want a boat
that can make it if we want to do some extended cruising.

You have several possibly contradictory requirements. You have to
figure that YOU and your wife are the actual liveaboards: size the
boat for your capacities to sail it and your comfort in living in it,
not for its suitability as a floating hotel for visitors who may or
may not show or help in running the boat.

As for the ketch rig, while I personally like it, it is both more
tunable and more complex than a sloop rig, and they point less high on
average and are frequently found 20% too short on boats 40% too heavy.
It's a trade wind/downwind rig, really, and is good if you've got time
or find the more but smaller sails aspect attractive. I do (I like the
center cockpit options frequently found on ketches as well), but I
have no illusions that it takes more wind to get them moving and they
are a rig for comfort, not speed. If J-Boats made a ketch, then
maybe...!

Also, in the Caribbean, there's a lot of thin water. You may find a
swing keel/centerboard makes more sense, as the bigger the boat, the
deeper the keel as a rule. A Whitby 42 is a good example of a tested
Caribbean cruiser.

R.

um do you remember any particulars on boat Joshua Slocum sailed around
the world in , I dont recall him looking like a body builder.

On 12 Sep 2005 14:59:39 -0700, "akcarlos" wrote:


um do you remember any particulars on boat Joshua Slocum sailed around
the world in , I dont recall him looking like a body builder.

"Spray" was 36 feet long and easily handled by a man who not only
rebuilt her from frames to be easily handled, but by a man who had
spent his entire career on muscle-powered sailing vessels.

Today's boats are very different, and today's people, as well.

R.

rhys wrote:
On 12 Sep 2005 14:59:39 -0700, "akcarlos" wrote:


um do you remember any particulars on boat Joshua Slocum sailed around
the world in , I dont recall him looking like a body builder.

"Spray" was 36 feet long and easily handled by a man who not only
rebuilt her from frames to be easily handled, but by a man who had
spent his entire career on muscle-powered sailing vessels.

Today's boats are very different, and today's people, as well.

R.

my point was that you can have a larger yacht and sail it quite well
short crewed
without having lots of modern toys like roller furling, electric
winches etc .

On 13 Sep 2005 17:33:17 -0700, "akcarlos" wrote:


rhys wrote:
On 12 Sep 2005 14:59:39 -0700, "akcarlos" wrote:


um do you remember any particulars on boat Joshua Slocum sailed around
the world in , I dont recall him looking like a body builder.

"Spray" was 36 feet long and easily handled by a man who not only
rebuilt her from frames to be easily handled, but by a man who had
spent his entire career on muscle-powered sailing vessels.

Today's boats are very different, and today's people, as well.

R.

my point was that you can have a larger yacht and sail it quite well
short crewed
without having lots of modern toys like roller furling, electric
winches etc .

I think you mistook my meaning: I don't actually approve of a lot of
"modern toys", or perhaps I should say I approve of them selectively.
For instance, I have hank-on sails. In fact, I convert tape luff
composite sails abandoned by racers because a bird shat on them or
something *back into* hank-ons...which is seen as retrograde around my
club. I also just bought a sextant, just rebuilt an Atomic 4, and just
spent a few hundred bucks on making up preventers for my boom, because
with a new spinnaker I'm doing a lot more downwind work.

So I am old-fashioned, I suppose. Or conservative. Or prudent. Or
cheap.

However, I do maintain that if your goal is more cruising and less
repair, the most sensible thing a cruising couple can do is to get as
nearly bulletproof a boat as possible, meaning one sized to their
capabilities, and to make themselves fit as possible so that they can
run it efficiently. In some cases, this means a slightly smaller boat
than they can afford (say, 40 feet), with less crap...sorry, treasured
possessions aboard, and more money invested in better gear.

For a two-person crew, roller furling is a must at 40 feet, unless the
couple in question are Olympian in size and strength. But I would
still want the ability to have a hank-on staysail for emergencies, and
the sort of roller furling where the genoa is easily stripped. By the
same logic, I don't like in mast furling.

R.