Jeff wrote:
Again, this may be true, but it might not be appropriate for all
systems. Adding a thru-hull and more components probably isn't worth a
few Amp-hours savings.


It's more than that... water cooling may save a lot o' bucks by using a
smaller unit. And it's more desirable in the tropics, where the ambient
air temp is higher. As air temp gets above the 80s, trying to air cool a
refrig'n condenser gets to be a losing proposition.

Another alternative is the keel cooler. At least two companies now are
making thru-hulls chambered & fitted for refrigeration keel cooling, so
you don't have to drill any more holes in your hull.

Some may be interested in my current project, 98% complete at this
point: installing a freezer built into our dinette seat. After a LOT of
research and spreadsheeting all the numbers, I decided on a Waeco
(Adler-Barbour) CU-84 (based on the Danfoss BD-35) air cooled
refrigeration unit, with an exhaust to the outside. The box is insulated
on 5 sides with R-28 vacuum panels. I am currently finishing the lids, a
relatively demanding bit of fiberglassing that I don't recommend.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...89712634CcPfiT
(next 7 pics)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
Jeff wrote:

Again, this may be true, but it might not be appropriate for all
systems. Adding a thru-hull and more components probably isn't worth
a few Amp-hours savings.


It's more than that... water cooling may save a lot o' bucks by using a
smaller unit. And it's more desirable in the tropics, where the ambient
air temp is higher. As air temp gets above the 80s, trying to air cool a
refrig'n condenser gets to be a losing proposition.

So you chose air cooled. How come?

One of the little ironies is that in cold water, the air in the bilge
may be much cooler than on deck or in the engine room. I never
bothered to measure, but I wonder if that's also true in the tropics.

As for savings - the cost difference between the BD50 and BD35 is
pretty small - certainly much less than a through hull, pump, and
condenser. However, once you get larger its clear that water cooling
has advantages.

BTW, my father-in-law, an HVAC engineer and inventor, rigged up his
home A/C to heat the swimming pool water with the waste heat. It
worked great for a number of years, but now that he's 84 and his war
injuries have caught up to him, he has trouble maintaining it. With
the extra plumbing, its possible to loose the pool water, and then be
without both pool and A/C.


Another alternative is the keel cooler. At least two companies now are
making thru-hulls chambered & fitted for refrigeration keel cooling, so
you don't have to drill any more holes in your hull.

Some may be interested in my current project, 98% complete at this
point: installing a freezer built into our dinette seat. After a LOT of
research and spreadsheeting all the numbers, I decided on a Waeco
(Adler-Barbour) CU-84 (based on the Danfoss BD-35) air cooled
refrigeration unit, with an exhaust to the outside. The box is insulated
on 5 sides with R-28 vacuum panels. I am currently finishing the lids, a
relatively demanding bit of fiberglassing that I don't recommend.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...89712634CcPfiT
(next 7 pics)

I like this setup. As I've mentioned before, using one compressor for
both fridge and freezer can be a problem. The BD35 gives a lot of
bang for the buck.



Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Jeff" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:
Jeff wrote:

Again, this may be true, but it might not be appropriate for all
systems. Adding a thru-hull and more components probably isn't worth a
few Amp-hours savings.


It's more than that... water cooling may save a lot o' bucks by using a
smaller unit. And it's more desirable in the tropics, where the ambient
air temp is higher. As air temp gets above the 80s, trying to air cool a
refrig'n condenser gets to be a losing proposition.

So you chose air cooled. How come?

One of the little ironies is that in cold water, the air in the bilge may
be much cooler than on deck or in the engine room. I never bothered to
measure, but I wonder if that's also true in the tropics.

As for savings - the cost difference between the BD50 and BD35 is pretty
small - certainly much less than a through hull, pump, and condenser.
However, once you get larger its clear that water cooling has advantages.

BTW, my father-in-law, an HVAC engineer and inventor, rigged up his home
A/C to heat the swimming pool water with the waste heat. It worked great
for a number of years, but now that he's 84 and his war injuries have
caught up to him, he has trouble maintaining it. With the extra plumbing,
its possible to loose the pool water, and then be without both pool and
A/C.


Another alternative is the keel cooler. At least two companies now are
making thru-hulls chambered & fitted for refrigeration keel cooling, so
you don't have to drill any more holes in your hull.

Some may be interested in my current project, 98% complete at this point:
installing a freezer built into our dinette seat. After a LOT of research
and spreadsheeting all the numbers, I decided on a Waeco (Adler-Barbour)
CU-84 (based on the Danfoss BD-35) air cooled refrigeration unit, with an
exhaust to the outside. The box is insulated on 5 sides with R-28 vacuum
panels. I am currently finishing the lids, a relatively demanding bit of
fiberglassing that I don't recommend.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...89712634CcPfiT
(next 7 pics)

I like this setup. As I've mentioned before, using one compressor for
both fridge and freezer can be a problem. The BD35 gives a lot of bang
for the buck.



Fresh Breezes- Doug King


I've gotten great service out of my spillover system. Cold plates in the
freezer only.
Thermostacally controlled vent into the fridge side. Large boxes. Probably 3
cuft
in the freezer and 12 cuft in the fridge.

Doug
s/v Callista

Doug Dotson wrote:
I like this setup. As I've mentioned before, using one compressor for
both fridge and freezer can be a problem. The BD35 gives a lot of bang
for the buck.

I've gotten great service out of my spillover system. Cold plates in the
freezer only.
Thermostacally controlled vent into the fridge side. Large boxes. Probably 3
cuft
in the freezer and 12 cuft in the fridge.


Then you really don't have a two box system. And, as with mine, you
have no way to run the fridge only. If you truly had two boxes with
two compressors, as I assume DSK has, then you have the option of
shutting down the freezer to save energy, plus you have a backup.

I have nothing against spillover systems, and your compressor system
is probably almost identical to mine. I'm just pointing out
possibilities that might work for different situations.

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Doug Dotson wrote:
I like this setup. As I've mentioned before, using one compressor for
both fridge and freezer can be a problem. The BD35 gives a lot of bang
for the buck.

I've gotten great service out of my spillover system. Cold plates in the
freezer only.
Thermostacally controlled vent into the fridge side. Large boxes.
Probably 3 cuft
in the freezer and 12 cuft in the fridge.


Then you really don't have a two box system.

It was two boxes last time I looked.

And, as with mine, you have no way to run the fridge only.

True, but I have no need to do such.

If you truly had two boxes with two compressors, as I assume DSK has,
then you have the option of shutting down the freezer to save energy, plus
you have a backup.

Sorry, a fridge isn't a good backp for a freezer and visa versa. But I truly
have 2 boxes. You can come over and count them if you are in doubt.

I have nothing against spillover systems, and your compressor system is
probably almost identical to mine. I'm just pointing out possibilities
that might work for different situations.

Of course.

"Jeff" wrote
So you chose air cooled. How come?


Smaller cheaper unit, plus my confidence in my ability to post-engineer
a seawater assisted cooling unit from either of the two already existing
seawater systems on board.

One of the little ironies is that in cold water, the air in the bilge may
be much cooler than on deck or in the engine room. I never bothered to
measure, but I wonder if that's also true in the tropics.

I'm sure it is. There would be at least a little cooling effect on air
flowing into the bilge and then up thru the condensor... and presumably,
thence overboard. It would help ventilate an area that prob'ly needs it,
too.


As for savings - the cost difference between the BD50 and BD35 is pretty
small - certainly much less than a through hull, pump, and condenser.
However, once you get larger its clear that water cooling has advantages.

Actually the difference in price between the two Waeco units... the one
I bought, and the next size bigger... is about $450, almost 50% more.
That more than paid for the vacuum insulation panels.


BTW, my father-in-law, an HVAC engineer and inventor, rigged up his home
A/C to heat the swimming pool water with the waste heat. It worked great
for a number of years, but now that he's 84 and his war injuries have
caught up to him, he has trouble maintaining it. With the extra plumbing,
its possible to loose the pool water, and then be without both pool and
A/C.


Excellent idea, but by late summer I bet the pool was quite warm. This
would be a great system to use on a spring-fed pond!


Doug Dotson wrote:
I've gotten great service out of my spillover system. Cold plates in the
freezer only.
Thermostacally controlled vent into the fridge side. Large boxes. Probably 3
cuft
in the freezer and 12 cuft in the fridge.


Spillover systems can be very efficient if the access isn't terrible.
For many, to get into the freezer you go thru the fridge, and leave the
door open while you rummage around.

My experience with fridge/freezers in one box is that if you set them
cold enough to keep ice cream, they freeze the milk. Others may have
better design.

Most boat fridge installations commit at least one of the following
cardinal sins: air cooled unit with insufficient air flow, wiring sized
and/or connected improperly so unit sees low voltage, poor insulation,
leaky door. The owners usually gripe about the last tech to service it
and want the refrigerant loop recharged.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote
So you chose air cooled. How come?


Smaller cheaper unit, plus my confidence in my ability to post-engineer a
seawater assisted cooling unit from either of the two already existing
seawater systems on board.

One of the little ironies is that in cold water, the air in the bilge may
be much cooler than on deck or in the engine room. I never bothered to
measure, but I wonder if that's also true in the tropics.

I'm sure it is. There would be at least a little cooling effect on air
flowing into the bilge and then up thru the condensor... and presumably,
thence overboard. It would help ventilate an area that prob'ly needs it,
too.


As for savings - the cost difference between the BD50 and BD35 is pretty
small - certainly much less than a through hull, pump, and condenser.
However, once you get larger its clear that water cooling has advantages.

Actually the difference in price between the two Waeco units... the one I
bought, and the next size bigger... is about $450, almost 50% more. That
more than paid for the vacuum insulation panels.


BTW, my father-in-law, an HVAC engineer and inventor, rigged up his home
A/C to heat the swimming pool water with the waste heat. It worked great
for a number of years, but now that he's 84 and his war injuries have
caught up to him, he has trouble maintaining it. With the extra
plumbing, its possible to loose the pool water, and then be without both
pool and A/C.


Excellent idea, but by late summer I bet the pool was quite warm. This
would be a great system to use on a spring-fed pond!


Doug Dotson wrote:
I've gotten great service out of my spillover system. Cold plates in the
freezer only.
Thermostacally controlled vent into the fridge side. Large boxes.
Probably 3 cuft
in the freezer and 12 cuft in the fridge.


Spillover systems can be very efficient if the access isn't terrible. For
many, to get into the freezer you go thru the fridge, and leave the door
open while you rummage around.

Never seen one like this. Terrible design IMHO. Door in in the counter
so not that much air escapes.


My experience with fridge/freezers in one box is that if you set them cold
enough to keep ice cream, they freeze the milk. Others may have better
design.

Never had this problem. Our freezer will freeze ice cream rock solid and
will
freeze 2 trays of ice cubes in 1/2 hour. Fridge side never gets below
freezing
due to the thermostatically controlled vent that lets the air from the
freezer
side to the fridge side

Most boat fridge installations commit at least one of the following
cardinal sins: air cooled unit with insufficient air flow, wiring sized
and/or connected improperly so unit sees low voltage, poor insulation,
leaky door. The owners usually gripe about the last tech to service it and
want the refrigerant loop recharged.

I agree!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Doug
s/v Callista

"Doug Dotson" dougdotson@NOSPAMcablespeedNOSPAMcom wrote in message
...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:
Jeff wrote:

Again, this may be true, but it might not be appropriate for all
systems. Adding a thru-hull and more components probably isn't worth a
few Amp-hours savings.


It's more than that... water cooling may save a lot o' bucks by using a
smaller unit. And it's more desirable in the tropics, where the ambient
air temp is higher. As air temp gets above the 80s, trying to air cool a
refrig'n condenser gets to be a losing proposition.

So you chose air cooled. How come?

One of the little ironies is that in cold water, the air in the bilge may
be much cooler than on deck or in the engine room. I never bothered to
measure, but I wonder if that's also true in the tropics.

As for savings - the cost difference between the BD50 and BD35 is pretty
small - certainly much less than a through hull, pump, and condenser.
However, once you get larger its clear that water cooling has advantages.

BTW, my father-in-law, an HVAC engineer and inventor, rigged up his home
A/C to heat the swimming pool water with the waste heat. It worked great
for a number of years, but now that he's 84 and his war injuries have
caught up to him, he has trouble maintaining it. With the extra
plumbing, its possible to loose the pool water, and then be without both
pool and A/C.


Another alternative is the keel cooler. At least two companies now are
making thru-hulls chambered & fitted for refrigeration keel cooling, so
you don't have to drill any more holes in your hull.

Some may be interested in my current project, 98% complete at this
point: installing a freezer built into our dinette seat. After a LOT of
research and spreadsheeting all the numbers, I decided on a Waeco
(Adler-Barbour) CU-84 (based on the Danfoss BD-35) air cooled
refrigeration unit, with an exhaust to the outside. The box is insulated
on 5 sides with R-28 vacuum panels. I am currently finishing the lids, a
relatively demanding bit of fiberglassing that I don't recommend.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...89712634CcPfiT
(next 7 pics)

I like this setup. As I've mentioned before, using one compressor for
both fridge and freezer can be a problem. The BD35 gives a lot of bang
for the buck.



Fresh Breezes- Doug King


I've gotten great service out of my spillover system. Cold plates in the
freezer only.
Thermostacally controlled vent into the fridge side. Large boxes. Probably
3 cuft
in the freezer and 12 cuft in the fridge.

Doug
s/v Callista

Oops! Correct that! 6 cuft in the freezer.

Doug

DSK wrote:

Some may be interested in my current project, 98% complete at this
point: installing a freezer built into our dinette seat. After a LOT of
research and spreadsheeting all the numbers, I decided on a Waeco
(Adler-Barbour) CU-84 (based on the Danfoss BD-35) air cooled
refrigeration unit, with an exhaust to the outside. The box is insulated
on 5 sides with R-28 vacuum panels. I am currently finishing the lids, a
relatively demanding bit of fiberglassing that I don't recommend.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...89712634CcPfiT
(next 7 pics)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I gotta ask - why the carbon fiber in a freezer?

Evan Gatehouse

"Evan Gatehouse" wrote in message
...
DSK wrote:

Some may be interested in my current project, 98% complete at this point:
installing a freezer built into our dinette seat. After a LOT of research
and spreadsheeting all the numbers, I decided on a Waeco (Adler-Barbour)
CU-84 (based on the Danfoss BD-35) air cooled refrigeration unit, with an
exhaust to the outside. The box is insulated on 5 sides with R-28 vacuum
panels. I am currently finishing the lids, a relatively demanding bit of
fiberglassing that I don't recommend.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...89712634CcPfiT
(next 7 pics)

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I gotta ask - why the carbon fiber in a freezer?

Evan Gatehouse

You lost me Evan. Where was carbon fiber mentioned?

Doug
s/v CAllista