Hello. I was hoping that I could get some advice on repairing
fiberglass on a damaged keel. I was out on Lake Erie and lost my engine
and ended up slamming into the breakwall a few times before getting a
tow. It put a 1"x3" hole in the side of my keel. I've read up on
fiberglass repair, including the book "The Fiberglass Boat Repair
Manual."

My question is this... The flat bottom of the keel was not very
accessible, so I just wrapped the fiberglass around and under the keel.
Is this going to cause me any long term problems? Ideally, I would've
ground out around the bottom like I did the top, but I just couldn't
get access without lifting the boat off the trailer.

----------------------------------|
\ (keel) /
\ /
\--------|xxxxx|-----/

(damaged area is the xxxx's)

The boat is old and cosmetics aren't important. I just want a sound,
safe repair. I've applied about 5-6 layers of 6 oz. fiberglass cloth
w/Mas Resin & Fast Hardner. I'd rather not grind it all down and start
over if it's good enough as is.

Pictures of the repair can be found @
http://csilo.com/randomphotos.aspx?f...og/boatrepair/

Thanks for your advice,
Joe

I have look at the pictures. They do not tell me much.
What type of keel do you have: lead, cast iron, fiberglass encapsulated.
Lead and cast iron keel are not much of a problem when it come to a 1"x3"
hole.
They are two type of fiberglass encapsulated, one type is made out of a
spitted mold and the inside filled with solid lead or some any other solid
material is used for weight.
The other type of encapsulated keel uses lead pellets for weight of any
other loose material.
When you punched in a hole in a encapsulated keel you have to drill small
diameter holes around the puncture area to dry the fiberglass. It take
about one Saison to get the water out completely.
Otherwise, the water will wick into the fiberglass hull and cause structural
damage at a later time. Without knowing what type of keel and boat you have
I can only speculate.

"joeb" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello. I was hoping that I could get some advice on repairing
fiberglass on a damaged keel. I was out on Lake Erie and lost my engine
and ended up slamming into the breakwall a few times before getting a
tow. It put a 1"x3" hole in the side of my keel. I've read up on
fiberglass repair, including the book "The Fiberglass Boat Repair
Manual."

My question is this... The flat bottom of the keel was not very
accessible, so I just wrapped the fiberglass around and under the keel.
Is this going to cause me any long term problems? Ideally, I would've
ground out around the bottom like I did the top, but I just couldn't
get access without lifting the boat off the trailer.

----------------------------------|
\ (keel) /
\ /
\--------|xxxxx|-----/

(damaged area is the xxxx's)

The boat is old and cosmetics aren't important. I just want a sound,
safe repair. I've applied about 5-6 layers of 6 oz. fiberglass cloth
w/Mas Resin & Fast Hardner. I'd rather not grind it all down and start
over if it's good enough as is.

Pictures of the repair can be found @
http://csilo.com/randomphotos.aspx?f...og/boatrepair/

Thanks for your advice,
Joe

I'm not entirely sure what it is...I think it's fiberglass
encapsulated. There's some solid material in the center, but I'm not
sure what it is. It doesn't seem like metal. If it helps, the boat is a
1972 O'Day 22".

When the hole was exposed, I could reach in and move the center
material back and forth a couple inches. I also let it dry out for a
couple weeks. Thanks for your reply.

joeb wrote:

I'm not entirely sure what it is...I think it's fiberglass
encapsulated. There's some solid material in the center, but I'm not
sure what it is. It doesn't seem like metal. If it helps, the boat is a
1972 O'Day 22".

When the hole was exposed, I could reach in and move the center
material back and forth a couple inches. I also let it dry out for a
couple weeks. Thanks for your reply.

AARGH, I just typed a long reply to your other identical post in
rec.boats.building WITHOUT the additional info you just posted. This
was because you MULTIPOSTED. THIS IS WORSE THAN CROSS POSTING. I see
you are using google groups, but even that kludgy interface can handle
cross posting. If you had put [ rec.boats.building, rec.boats.cruising
] (without the [] of course) in the box just above '(Separate multiple
groups with commas)' you would have xposted (cross posted) it ok. (I
just did a test to confirm this) If Xposting, make sure your message is
appropriate and on topic for each group, (rule of thumb, NOTHING is ever
appropriate for more that 3 groups) or you will get a serious roasting
from regulars on those groups. Thats enough nettiquette for one day :-)


You shouldn't have a void in the bottom of your keel with loose stuff
inside. An empty or foamed void is possible if the designer got the
trim wrong and they had to move ballast forward or aft between the
prototytpe and the main production run. Did you grind back the edges of
the hole on the side of the keel far enough to make sure there is no
delamination? A better description of the loose stuff in the centre
would help, Is it smoothish and regularily shaped or jagged chunks?
I cant help feeling you may have lost a quantity of loose ballast out of
the hole. At this point you may well need to talk to a pro who knows
O'Days.
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:
'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed,
All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy.

The area to clarify is to establish that no ballast material got out or
displaced.
The geometric center of the boat could have changed. I am insisting on this
point because I have seen boats capsizing or heeling excessively. After
long investigations we learned that these boats had lost some of their keel
ballast. If done properly an encapsulated keel is acceptable as long as the
weight material is solidified into one piece with no room for movement. The
best way is to pour melted lead into the fiberglass capsule. High pressure
cement mixed with latex is worth investigating (similar to the crack filling
cement used in repairing water dams).

"Ian Malcolm" wrote in message
...
joeb wrote:

I'm not entirely sure what it is...I think it's fiberglass
encapsulated. There's some solid material in the center, but I'm not
sure what it is. It doesn't seem like metal. If it helps, the boat is a
1972 O'Day 22".

When the hole was exposed, I could reach in and move the center
material back and forth a couple inches. I also let it dry out for a
couple weeks. Thanks for your reply.

AARGH, I just typed a long reply to your other identical post in
rec.boats.building WITHOUT the additional info you just posted. This
was because you MULTIPOSTED. THIS IS WORSE THAN CROSS POSTING. I see
you are using google groups, but even that kludgy interface can handle
cross posting. If you had put [ rec.boats.building, rec.boats.cruising
] (without the [] of course) in the box just above '(Separate multiple
groups with commas)' you would have xposted (cross posted) it ok. (I
just did a test to confirm this) If Xposting, make sure your message is
appropriate and on topic for each group, (rule of thumb, NOTHING is ever
appropriate for more that 3 groups) or you will get a serious roasting
from regulars on those groups. Thats enough nettiquette for one day :-)


You shouldn't have a void in the bottom of your keel with loose stuff
inside. An empty or foamed void is possible if the designer got the
trim wrong and they had to move ballast forward or aft between the
prototytpe and the main production run. Did you grind back the edges of
the hole on the side of the keel far enough to make sure there is no
delamination? A better description of the loose stuff in the centre
would help, Is it smoothish and regularily shaped or jagged chunks?
I cant help feeling you may have lost a quantity of loose ballast out of
the hole. At this point you may well need to talk to a pro who knows
O'Days.
--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:
'Stingo' Albacore #1554 - 15' Early 60's, Uffa Fox designed,
All varnished hot moulded wooden racing dinghy.

I called the original designers of the O'Day. Although they no longer
have any of the original documentation, I spoke with a gentleman that
was working there when the boat was originally designed. He said that
it has a lead keel encapsulated in a fiberglass mold. He wasn't sure
what the the material was that I was moving around, but he said it's
likely that the lead didn't go all the way to the bottom. He suggested
that I could use some spray foam to shore things up. He also said that
I shouldn't need to worry about the boat's center or weight.

Now, I just need to make sure that the patch is good and solid.

It looks to me in the photos that you didn't grind off the bottom paint
before applying the glass. If so, the glass will not adhere for long and
you should peel or grind it off.

The correct repair of a wound like this is not trivial. Any less is a waste
of time and will not go unnoticed when a potential buyer surveys the boat.
Doing it right requires gaining access to the site, lots of grinding and
considerable thickness of glass. There's more in the West System pamphlet:

002-550 Fiberglass Boat Repair & Maintenance
Softcover-84 pages.
A complete, illustrated guide to most fiberglass boat repair problems.
Includes detailed instructions on repairing rotted stringers and frames,
delamination, keel damage. Also covers fairing keels, hardware bonding,
finishing and installing teak veneers.




"joeb" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello. I was hoping that I could get some advice on repairing
fiberglass on a damaged keel. I was out on Lake Erie and lost my engine
and ended up slamming into the breakwall a few times before getting a
tow. It put a 1"x3" hole in the side of my keel. I've read up on
fiberglass repair, including the book "The Fiberglass Boat Repair
Manual."

My question is this... The flat bottom of the keel was not very
accessible, so I just wrapped the fiberglass around and under the keel.
Is this going to cause me any long term problems? Ideally, I would've
ground out around the bottom like I did the top, but I just couldn't
get access without lifting the boat off the trailer.

----------------------------------|
\ (keel) /
\ /
\--------|xxxxx|-----/

(damaged area is the xxxx's)

The boat is old and cosmetics aren't important. I just want a sound,
safe repair. I've applied about 5-6 layers of 6 oz. fiberglass cloth
w/Mas Resin & Fast Hardner. I'd rather not grind it all down and start
over if it's good enough as is.

Pictures of the repair can be found @
http://csilo.com/randomphotos.aspx?f...og/boatrepair/

Thanks for your advice,
Joe

Hi Jim. Thanks for the reply.

Yes, you're right. I failed to grind off the paint on the flat bottom
of the keel. I knew that I didn't have enough room to get my grinder
under there, while on the trailer, and it didn't even occur to me to
try anything else.

It still seems like it has a really good bond (subjective, I know). I'm
hoping that instead of tearing it all off and starting over, that I'll
be able to just file back around the edges and put one more layer on. I
guess my real concern is the edges peeling off.

My main objective is something that is safe for the remainder of the
season. If winter hits and I have to start over, then I'm only out $70
in supplies.

I would not rely on the bottom paint to adhere. Sand off the bottom
paint, and clean, dewax, etc. Grind around the area to bare glass;
clean and dewax again. Fill in with epoxy as above, and lay some glass
down as you've done. This should cost you less than your $70, but will
require additional work in the winter
Y

Any guess on whether it will last a few trips out on the Lake this
summer?